<That is when pluto pops up and shows me he still can make me dance to his tune. I'm his puppet and I have come to terms with that.>

No, actually. You don't. You can battle the archetype. He might be there for just that reason ~ to get you to kick his ass. LOL. And you may find him loving you all the more when you do that. Because then you are being so like him, and like likes like. Pluto I mean, of course.

It happens whenever I get to be very connected to someone, man or woman. When the person becomes very close to me. I've never been able avoid it. Sometimes they bear with everything for considerable time (as in a symbiotic relationship) and then need to break the bond all of a sudden, saying they cannot cope with my supposed 'tyrannical behaviour' and that they feel as if they were in a cage. They need to break free (from what?... I don't know exactly). I don't know what signs or plantary energies could account for that, either. There are very few people who have resisted in a relationship with me, despite conflict, distance, divergence or anyhing else.

my pluto is leo and my moon is taurus in the 12th house

Jen,,,if you leave to have a solitary life,
who wouyld be stuffin your muffin ???

there are ways to have relating and other needs met,,,
and not every relation ends in a bad way,,,once you realize
that nothing is forever, and everything in time changes,,,sometimes the
other person is there, sometimes not, tho if you look at relating as what
happens in the moment then life becomes richer in experiences,
and the experiences of the moment,,,
sort of like photography,,,which is the art of the moment

Ashley

Yeah moon Saturn is more about limiting the emotional needs and about forcing control over the body/emotional needs.
I'd advise anyone to read sue tompkins aspects in astrology, it mentions this much better than I am.

Would be interested in eating disorders with these aspects too, particularly the harsh aspects of either moon Pluto or Saturn Pluto. Particularly if virgo or Taurus feature prominently in the chart.

"Can other Pluto/moons here share any **their own** personal obstacles and how they overcame/ what they learned in their own lives?? "

I'm a very private person in real life, so only a select few of my close friends know my full story. Over the past year or two I've reached some epiphanies about my life. They say that pluto moons have issues with family, or more so their mothers. My parents are both very loving and tried to provide the best for me. However being immigrants to the US, their capacity to provide guidance was limited by their lack of cultural and linguistic awareness. Most of their time was spent working, trying to make ends meet. I stopped confided my problems to them at a very young age because I knew it would be adding needless stress to their lives..and it would be fruitless to voice these problems because they would not have any solutions. I learned to depend on myself, but as a result it closed me off emotionally to almost everyone. Also another influential happening was our constant moving. By the time I was 10, we had moved over a dozen times..so I never built any long lasting relationships..in fact after awhile I didnt want to because it would only hurt when I left. The outer layer of my heart was becoming cold, and it is something that I still struggle with today. I remember an elementary school friend that wrote to me over and over again, and I never returned a single letter. In her last letter she was very sad and asked me why I was not replying, and I just sat and stared at the paper, folded it up and put it in a drawer.
My teen years were a drug ridden mess. When I started college I fell in love for the first time. It was my bestfriend, but it never worked out, and I broke off the friendship because that was how I dealt with pain. I always put my all in, and when I've had enough, I disappear. That relationship left a void in me when I ended it, and I quickly tried to fill it up with someone else. It was guy who was also going thru heartbreak, and I we grew close very fast. Unfortunately for me, he was not a good person..he ended up raping me one night. It caused me more harm than I realized at the time. I usually only confide in close friend that I trust, but I decided to seek therapy, thinking that maybe it would help. In the first session the therapist told me that what I experienced was a part of dating, and I needed realize this. I cried and she left the room. Needless to say that was the last time I went to her. I was working 3 jobs and attending school, while this was happening... All of this lead to a long string of horrible sexual choices. Then I meet someone who understood me, and didnt judge me, and at the time help me thru some trying problems..however I found out a bit into the relationship that he was bipolar and not willing to medicate. But I felt gratitude and love, so I persisted. I never knew how much anger and rage was inside me till that relationship. It got so bad that it was affecting my health. You guys can take a guess at how horrible the relationship was, I ended it a bit over a year ago.

How I overcame/ am overcoming this: Well I healed from the sexual violence through education, and supporting others have gone thu the same trauma. I took courses on sexual violence, and learned about the cycle of violence we, or our partners create and perpetuate. Afterwards I worked at a domestic violence shelter, where many of the women had similar experiences, and also provided educational workshops on sexual violence prevention. Its always been important for me to utilize my bad experiences constructively. I believe with every experience, good or bad, something positive can come from it..you just have to find what is right for you.
After coming out of my relationship and my long childhood and youth filled with drama, I realized how much I neglected myself. I had become so efficient at helping myself, that I create a dynamic where I never allowed any support from others. Because I never got it, deep inside I felt that I didnt deserve it, or that I had to work for it. I always knew the importance of self respect, and intellectually understood this, but I didnt emotionally. I think that is why it is so hard to breakthrough our negative cycles, because we intellectually understand the problem, so be believe that we can resolve it, but that is not where the change comes from. Your mind cannot will your emotions into understanding. It happens at its own time, and it cant be forced. This chain of thought lead me to realize that my anger was a projection of self loathing. Because I dont respect myself, I disrespect others. And so on and so forth..Im still having daily realizations..its like a flood gate thats been open in my mind and in my heart. Maybe it has to do with my saturn return *shrugs* Ok that was incredibly long..for anyone that has managed to read through to the end, thank you for taking the time out to hear my story. haha also disregard any typos, as im not about to edit through this long thing.

One

Not a paradox. The very thing you crave and need destroys you. You hate that you need it (love, affection) but you do and that kills you.

There can sometimes be the psychic vampire persona with the mother.
However equally the mother can be seen as someone poweful, either for good or bad. They are often seen as being survivors, often they had a tough time themselves and it may be that as a baby or child she was unable to fully cater for your needs leaving you with an in built assumption or fear that your needs are either dangerous, unrecognised or destined to be taken away. Sometimes in older life you realise your mum is a good role model in that she is seen as someone who can not let life beat her but can transform and find hidden strength.


How to deal?
Like I said earlier, don't wallow. Cultivate compassion for your own mum and for those you perceive let you down. Then you may be able to cultivate compassion for yourself, and perhaps forgive yourself for not being perfect and for needing that emotional connection and ultimately for being somewhat weak sometimes. Learning that that's okay. You will never do this whilst still in love with the abandonment nor whilst blaming your parents or childhood. Childhood blaming is only valid whilst a child. We're not children anymore. We have to rake responsibility for ourselves.

Not to me. My mother was the epitome of this for all of us. She literally tried to kill my brothers and did her best to destroy me. All the while she nourished us and had this smiling June Cleaver face. The only way anyone knew there was something off with her was when she'd go after them for her own amusement (which she inevitably would). So to me that tattoo makes absolute sense. Don't get too attached to what nourishes you because it can also destroy you. It took me the longest time to quit taking extreme measures to try to protect myself as a result.

"Quod me nutrit, me destruit... ¡damn right! "

;p

What an amazing story. Thank you so very much for sharing, Rexie. It took a lot of courage to overcome what you've been through. Thank you once again.

" Can other Pluto/moons here share any **their own** personal obstacles and how they overcame/ what they learned in their own lives?? "

Following suit with Rexie

I don't do this often

As far as I can tell, my Pluto-Moon (which is not alone, it is involved in a T-square with the sun and the MC) was triggered by the death of my father when I was very young. I was the only one that didn't cry. As I'm sure you all understand, I will never forget the moments leading to ,and the fallout after, the incident. I felt it in my chest and in my gut. The pain was immediately fought off. I knew things would never be the same. I knew i had to be strong and optimistic. I knew it wasn't going to get to me. I hated him for dying in a shroud of mystery. I hated my mother for being alive when he was gone. I hated my brother because he was weak. I hated the pain that sought to own me. Unbeknownst to me, a cycle of self destruction began. In the coming years I fought my mother, I stole from her, I defied her, I hated her. I picked on my little brother, I convinced him to break the rules with me, to steal with me, I blackmailed and took advantage of him every chance I got. This along with my natural probing and rebellious nature had me constantly at odds with someone around me, when I wasn't off to myself. I was unencumbered and often driven to seek, identify and exploit the weakensses of those around me. I had some measure of judgement,but usually didn't listen to my conscience unless I was particularly fond of a person. Often people didn't know what to expect from me because one moment I would be affectionate ,friendly and loving and the next I would be driven to get what I wanted at any cost, with little regard for the well-being of others. My experiences have been of a curious mix. I went through a phase where I would only pick on people that I percieved were weaker than me. I also went through a stretch where I only challenged what I percieved to be the strongest of people around me. I felt particularly alive when I engaged someone I felt was stronger than me. The anticipation was challenging and invigorating. It still is.

I would throw myself into curious situations with women. Alternative to some of my darker instincts, I have always been compelled to *rescue* women from abusive and unhealthy relationships. I stepped into a situation and got personally involved against my better judgement with a former *acquaintences* recent ex-girlfiend at one point. He was an abusive drunk. She was crying wolf , I bit, then she retreated and turned the boyfriend on me in order to restore her abusive relationship for her own reasons. What a game that turned out to be. I put him and a friend of his to sleep right in front of her one night at a concert. A nice little victory at the time,but I was humbled somewhat in that experience. I found out a few years ago that the guy was killed in Iraq after driving over an IAD in a Humvee. Fortunately, the last time I saw him we had reconciled and shook hands.

The 1st only real long-term relationship i was in (and by long-term I mean it lasted 2 years) I was in a recession. My natural drive was dormant. I was 18-20. I shut down and was a living shell during that time. Until I had enough. The relationship had become too routine and I realized how increasingly meaningless I had let it become. I let myself sleep long enough. She had begun to constantly ask why I never talked to her. I thought I talked to her just fine at the time. A change was coming, I just didn't recognize the cycles at the time,and a great many other things. A combination of different dynamics , and a domino effect brought forth a catastrophic end to that relationship as well as an end to two friendships of mine. Its not that I didn't want a close relationship, a close intimate relationship with one special person is something I've always dreamed about.

Through periods of isolation and reflection,months without contact with family and self-challenges of a quite different nature than ever before, I have *corrected* myself, so to speak. I have learned to harness my nature, listen to my conscience and to use my abilities more constructively for the good of others. I have always felt deeply that I have a destiny to fulfill that is beyond the scope of selfish desires and NOW ,only after prolonged periods of trial and error,failure and success can I truly see the value in being open with others, helping others and living with more virtue. I've righted the ship in regards to mom,brother and family. I realized I hated the very people that I loved the most because hating them meant they meant nothing , therefore losing them wouldn't be painful. I hated my brother because he was a momma's boy and she was still there. I was a daddy's boy and he was gone. I had to let my dad go and that was a big key.

Moving forward, there are just people out there who don't understand this kind of intense emotional struggle. Some people try to intellectualize it ,as was said, and reach some logical conclusion or rational solution.....

Not happenin'