Plutonian person

to see what I can do to prevent harm that I may cause him
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Danger!! Will Robinson!! Danger!! Will Robinson!! <waving robotic arms wildly>

from what I've learned through my Plutonian experience people.tribe.net/maryellen...7dad323738
attempting to prevent harm that you may be "causing" (it only seems that you are "causing it") him is about as MUCH harm as one can do to another ~ I know that this sounds paradoxical & I'm NOT advocating purposing "causing harm" ~ I'm just cautioning about attempting "too hard" to prevent mistakes that you really have no control over (they are called "mistakes" for a reason, you know)

here's some info. in other peoples' words:

First, a lovely image: Pluto is the only planet who is willing to put on arm's-length rubber gloves, stick his hand all the way up your as-, dig around, and pull out the problem. I know, it's nasty, but so is Pluto. Pluto does not care about you, the little ego-you. Pluto sees right through you, because you are not really Real. Pluto sees Truth, and the Truth of who you are, and that is what Pluto cares about. If you have to suffer to drop the false identifications of ego, Pluto could not care less, although I think Pluto is not actually ruthless and mean, even though it does often feel that way. Pluto doesn't want to hurt you, Pluto wants to free you from yourself. When Pluto really comes to visit, make no mistake about it: you are dying. You must surrender to this death and radically let go, because you cannot be present at your own funeral. To the degree that we resist the death of all that is false, when Pluto visits, we will suffer. If you want illusion to end for us, Pluto is the ticket to the Self.

Pluto specifically represents the purging of the grasping onto all that is unreal and untrue; Pluto represents the True and the Real. We can see this perverted search for the Real in Scorpionic people seeking the Real high, going from one extreme or addiction to another. Pluto represents that part of Spirit that strips away everything within us that clings to falsehood and illusion. If we could only take the Buddha's wisdom to heart, we would understand: everything changes, so why pretend otherwise?

from www.astrologyforthesoul.com/mose....html
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Pluto seeks to bring us to a mindful silence that can witness how we run away from our innermost freedom. The heaviness that comes with Pluto can be seen primarily as the acting out of the resistance of the ego-mind to deep peace and true healing. For these reasons, Pluto is like Saturn in that Pluto can be negatively and simplistically viewed as an enemy or positively and responsibly viewed as a spiritual friend. Yes, this is easier said than done.

Pluto symbolizes opposite forces: both the darkness and the self-hate within us, as well as the light of Truth within us which dispels darkness and heals unconsciousness. Pluto's natal aspects point to psychological arenas in which we meet the dark within us, and can become very alert and awake through this encounter. The most pleasant and easy life (some would say karma) would involve a lack of major Pluto aspects (and difficult eighth house placements) in the birthchart. Having major Pluto aspects (or difficult eighth house placements) in a birth chart does not symbolize a life of psychological ease, but does offer the possibility for a radical healing, awakening, and releasing of very ancient baggage. It is only through facing the difficult elements of ourselves which Pluto brings to the surface, that we might actually heal ourselves and our planet.

Ultimately, the magic wand that can heal the difficult face of Pluto involves deep inquiry into ourselves, honesty with ourselves, and loving appreciation of ourselves. This deep inquiry involves looking into what we are really seeking to gain from our desires, and whether these desires can really give us the peace we are looking for. This self-honesty involves looking into our habitual tendencies that upset our inherently relaxed nature. This love of oneself includes the choice of balance and simplicity in our lives.

But perhaps the most important thing for those with major Pluto aspects is to just feel more joy. Lightening up is often the hardest thing for those with major Pluto aspects to do, because lightening up means relaxing into love, which is what many of us don't feel we deserve. While spiritual practices, bodily healing and purification, counseling, healing work, esoteric self-study, etc. are vital and very helpful for a Plutonian individual, a truer spiritual growth may come through an even more profound channel: just learning how to have good, clean fun!

www.astrologyforthesoul.com/mose....html
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Pluto is the outermost planet of the solar system, and the end of the process of breaking down the reality structure of normal consciousness begun by Uranus. Pluto supplies the energy for the evolutionary process whereby outmoded or dysfunctional entities are transformed through death and rebirth into new ones higher on the evolutionary path. This outmoded entity is often a part of our ego with which we are identified, and without which we feel we cannot live. If we resist Pluto here instead of surrendering to the necessary ego death and personal transformation, mental illness or even breakdown can occur. Pluto causes the disintegration of psychological blocks obstructing our evolutionary growth. Its energy comes from the core of all things, and is the most intense and potent there is: atomic, nuclear, sexual, kundalini. If we allow the fear of the death of some part of our self to block it’s process, the result can be catastrophic.

In your horoscope Pluto symbolizes death, rebirth, sex, evolution, degeneration and regeneration, and symbolizes the breakdown of psychological blocks that prevent evolutionary growth. It is the higher octave of Mars, where it represents the conscious self-knowledge and self-mastery of the magician and alchemist standing above brute force and physical prowess; and it is also the fabulous and elusive Phoenix bird. Pluto rules the sign Scorpio in which initially/exoterically it symbolizes mastery of the emotions through the use of the will, and finally/esoterically it represents transcendence through consciousness of the ego-identified self. This is the true and liberating death of the self born here to earth.

At some point(s) in your past your parents or society disapproved of and blocked your Mars’ desire energy. Needing to be accepted by those significant adults, you had no choice but to repress this event. Pluto, the higher octave of Mars, shows by it’s house position where these unconscious, repressed energies are trapped, and what kinds of experiences or activities are necessary to release them and bring them to consciousness.

The god of the underworld, Pluto represents what is buried deep inside of you and needs to be brought to the light, or to have light brought to it. Thus miners, spelunkers, geologists, subway workers, psychotherapists, healers, religious leaders and detectives fall under the positive rays of Pluto. On the other side we have organized crime, spies, the socially disaffected, and terrorists Politicians representative of historical forces or power in general also serve Pluto. Pluto also rules the black race.

Pluto's three esoteric levels of manifestation are the Scorpion, the Eagle and the Dove, representing respectively strength of will, the power of transcendence, and transformation through self-knowledge and redemption. In the physical body Pluto rules the regenerative faculties of cells and the reproductive organs.

Pluto’s symbol is the circle of spirit above the crescent of personality, in turn held aloft and pierced by the cross of matter. This signifies that the spirit concealed within the personality’s shadow can be released to shine through the evolution and transformation of the personality.

from www.myastrologybook.com/Pluto-...ogy.htm
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Pluto - Will Life ever be the same again?
This article is by Richard Hills - Astrologer

There is a story in Greek myth of an innocent maiden called Kore, happily playing in a field under the protective eye of her mother the earth goddess Demeter. Aphrodite (Venus) perceives that such innocence is inappropriate at Kore's age, and arranges for Eros to inflame Hades (Pluto) with one of his arrows. Kore unwittingly picks a narcissus, a flower associated with the underworld, whereupon Hades appears in his chariot through an opening in the ground, abducts her to the underworld and rapes her. Kore's name is changed to Persephone (one who loves darkness), innocence is gone, she is free from the dominion of her mother who sought to maintain that innocence, and she has suddenly entered adulthood.

Maybe not much more needs to be said about Pluto! Most of us know people (probably ourselves at some times in our lives) who appear to live life at a superficial level, unwilling to dig to deeper levels as the immediate experiences of their lives offer sufficient comforts. We may be in a career which is apparently satisfying, but know deep down that our deeper resources are untapped, or in a relationship that fulfills our need for companionship and sexual satisfaction but from which passion and deep love are missing. Then along comes Pluto by progression of transit to our birth charts, up comes Hades through a hole in the ground and we get made redundant or our partner leaves us or we just know we cannot live a lie any longer. We just know that some major reorientation of life is required. The experience can be devastating, but if it can be entered into, often with some support from friends or counselors, a new way of living will emerge that is more satisfying (even if more challenging) than before.

Pluto is not necessarily sudden in its action. It is within the nature of things that they grow, die, decay and change into something else. Likewise the human psyche undergoes crises involving breakdown and renewal. Some people appear to act as agents for Plutonian transformation. It is part of its nature that the psyche is drawn to situations that it needs in order to move on to the next stage of growth. Many of us will, at some stage in our lives, feel drawn to someone who we do not perceive as physically attractive, but is sexually magnetic. Some power seems to draw us to that person, even if we can only look from afar. That is the power of Pluto.

It is not just individual people, but also whole societies that need decay and renewal. The agents of such decay are usually the so-called 'underworld' (a Pluto word) elements of society, organized crime and disaffected elements of society. As I write this (April 2003) much is being said in some quarters of the need to 'eliminate terrorism'. These same quarters seem unaware of, or unwilling to face, the massive problems the social order faces as it stands. The cold war may have ended when the Berlin Wall came down, but the threats simply appeared elsewhere. Likewise, the elimination of terrorism, should it ever occur, will not remove the threat of destruction to a society that attempts to suppress the powers of darkness within it.

from www.astrology-chart.co.uk/pluto.htm
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Astrologically Pluto is called "the great renewer", and is considered to represent the part of a person that destroys in order to renew. A commonly used keyword for Pluto is "transformation". Many more traditional astrologers do not use Pluto as a ruling planet, but do use the planet for interpretation and predictive work, obliquely making reference to projections of influences from higher to lower dimensional spaces.

Pluto is also associated with extreme power and corruption; the discovery of Pluto in 1930 coincided with the rise of fascism and Stalinism in Europe, leading to the Second World War. It also coincided with the Great Depression and the major proliferation of organized crime in the United States. Its entry into Cancer in 1913, the sign in which it was later discovered, coincided with the First World War. It is also associated with nuclear armament, which had its genesis in the research of the 1930's and 40's. Later on, it gave rise to the polarized nuclear stand off of the Cold War, with the mass consumer societies of the United States and other democracies facing the totalitarian state socialism of the USSR. The discovery of Pluto also occurred just after the birth of modern psycho-analysis, when Freud and Jung began to explore the depths of the unconscious. In art, movements like Cubism and Surrealism began to deconstruct the 'normal' view of the world and reassemble it in new and sometimes disturbing ways. In medicine Pluto seems to be associated with regenerative forces in the body involving cell formation and the reproductive system. Pluto is considered by modern astrologers to be co-ruler of the 8th house with Mars.

from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan..._astrology
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Sometimes considered a 'higher octave' of Mars, Pluto is similarly powerful and penetrating, but on an unconscious and psychological level. It gradually permeates the subconscious with its drives, leaving the conscious unaware until suddenly and explosively it emerges in an instinctive response that brings sweeping and often devastating change in the psyche and way of living. It can thus be a force for great personal good or ill. It evokes the principles of resurrection and determination, which when positively expressed bring resolution; when negatively expressed, coercion.

Pluto governs the conversion of apparent lost causes into successful projects, but at times the receding of objectives when their point of realization seems imminent; cycles of death and rebirth; disregard for vested interests; extremes of good and bad (including luck); the frustration and annihilation of plans; idealistic socially motivated organizations; ideas ahead of their time; the inspiration to put an end to failing conditions; involvement in organized groups and movements desirous of social reconstruction, which may include altruistic interest groups, political parties and think tanks, professional associations and trade unions, and also gangs and underground organizations; the negation and transformation of conditions; non-recognition of the legitimacy or impositions of officially established authorities; righteous indignation on behalf of social causes; and the voluntary relinquishment of worldly interests in order to advance spiritual development, or of home, country or fortune for marriage. It manifests in writers and dramatists who seek to inculcate reformist doctrines into their literary works. It is compulsive, intense, and sometimes manipulative.

Meaning of Glyph:
The glyph for Pluto is, according to Moore and Douglas's model, a cross of the Soul, atop which sits a horizontal bowl-like Crescent of Matter, within which nestles a Circle of Spirit without direct contact, seen by Moore and Douglas as the 'seed of the Sun or Spirit', cradled by the 'chalice of the Moon', a 'husk of the past'. Thus, Pluto's function as an agent of regeneration from the death of the old, and transition between states of existence, is symbolized. Pluto is closely linked to the urge for reproduction to perpetuate life beyond death, and thus to the drive for sex, which operates unconsciously through its influence, and in so doing confuses sex with death in the psyche.

Schulman interprets the glyph for Pluto as the Circle of Spirit 'soaring free' above the crescent of Soul that lies atop the cross of Matter, indicating a journey into the unknown being required before the deepest self-understanding can be achieved. The disconnection of Spirit from the Soul and Matter leaves the individual prone to suffering base energies. The challenge faced is to 'transcend oneself', in rising from lower ways of life to connect to and embody the purity of Spirit and Light that encapsulates goodness. In leaving behind what is of no further value to one's own growth, one is channelling the Plutonian energies in the most constructive way possible on a personal level.

from www.skyscript.co.uk/pluto2.html
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In the birth chart, Pluto shows the area of life where you'll personally face the intense powers of creation and destruction. It's the doorway through which volatile compressed pockets of self, spirit and primal energy lies hidden, which are released either by our own efforts or by provocation from the outside world.

Pluto's energy will not be suppressed but its power is often feared. This can put you in a showdown between your greatest fears of being destroyed, and the pursuit of the deepest longing in your heart. The Ego holds to its defenses, but Pluto tries to urge you to let go, and surrender to become a new person.

Pluto rules Scorpio with its province being death and rebirth. There's a Sufi saying, "Die many times before you die," and Pluto's lessons hold out promise of emerging from the flames a new person. When chaotic events shake us at the foundations, it could be Pluto provoking change at the fundamental level. We might not think we exist without the ground beneath us, our sense of who we are, but if we're brave, we come to discover there is life after this kind of ego-death.

Pluto also governs power itself, including struggles between people and countries for domination, and of course, personal power. It shows up when perfectly capable people end up under the thumb of someone else's control. Facing down the control and manipulation of others, especially parents, can make us weak in the knees. But once we do this, we are changed forever.

You can either be at the mercy of Pluto's provocation to change, or you can take matters into your own hands. It can be humbling to look soberly at the area of life in which you feel powerless, worked over, dissed by the Universe -- but by doing this, you can try to understand and alter your own reactions. You still might be brought to your knees, but while there you'll rest assured that Pluto's dark and punishing face is that of a tough, but loving teacher, leading you toward a more authentic experience of yourself.

from astrology.about.com/od/advan...Pluto.htm


as you may have noticed ~ I tend to be a bit obsessive! :)

love all-ways,
mem

Hermit

aye ^^ i liked your position, idk, its very, say, open, eager to understand/learn a little bit more.

yes, ive said exactly (yes, exactly) how i feel, both in the nice and in the not-so-nice ways. what she resorts to is feeling 'offended' and 'oh but im your mother, the only one youve got, imagine the day i finally die-- ETC ETC ETC' (you know the drill, told ya, blackmailin queen ;D ) sort of arguments.

thats why i simply... prefer not to say anything at all (reason why she has to ask my sister whether if i go out or no, who would i do it with, etc, because she knows i wont tell ^^ -ive said that bluntly- it doesnt matter, anyways, my sisters sick of it too.. so what she only says is, 'i dont know, ask him' etc etc)

mom doesnt give any excuses to mingle into my privacy... i think its just a need of her, and i understand it (i think) - but i just dont wanna be all permissive and indulging about it (tired of it)

Hermit~

What an interesting case, though a difficult one for you.

Many thoughts came up whilst reading your post. The key themes:

1. As an intuitive, I focus first on the underlying feeling of the person I am doing a reading for (astrologically or otherwise). I felt deep fear coming from you. Not just a mother's sense of helplessness or low-level anxiety from stressful daily life. Real, deep, primitive fear.
As your son is only 4 and you have not mentioned any matricidal tendencies :) and considering your frequent deja vu it feels to me like this is indeed a case of 2 spirits crossing paths again. Fear can become resentment rather quickly, even if you do still have those warm loving mommy-feelings (which apparently you do).
We fear what has harmed us, or what we do not understand. Getting a past-life reading from someone who is not a charlatan sounds like a very good idea. I wonder if your son in a previous life may have harmed you in some way? This is tricky stuff; I do not want to create projection where it doesn't belong. But I have read enough of your posts to feel that you can hear my view with a large grain of salt.

Do you meditate? Meditating separately from your son's presence (yes, a tricky thing for us moms) may bring surprising insights too.

2. Your father's 12th house conjunction does not surprise me. The 12th house is full of secrets and the unspoken~ that which cannot be translated into mere words, that which is sacred, and also sometimes areas of repressed abuse/addiction. It is also a very potent karmic position and would denote a deepet theme in your father's past lives. This may be a case of his old karmic cycles moving into the next phase, passed through you somehow. I haven't looked at your chart to see how this plays out. The 12th house would denote the end of a karmic era. Perhaps it is YOUR family inheritance to begin bringing the family's skeletons gently and consciously out of the closet, and to embrace more positive ways of being.

3. I have a Pluto-Moon conjunction with 4 degree orb (Moon is 0 degrees Libra, Pluto 27 Virgo) in my 4th house, right the hell on my IC.
And so I know what it is like to have been a child with this position. It can feel like the universe is against you, and there is no safe or reliable place to find comfort. Most grown ups in my life were very intense, and that felt scary. Even when the intensity was "positive". I did find solace in quiet spots I would create in the yard, places for the fairies and birds to visit. I also did find great comfort in my father's side of the family, who are also intense but less dark. My nana's lap was the best place in the world, for she was mostly consistent though firm with me. My own mother was very rarely (if ever) truly a place that felt "safe". She was never abusive towards me, but also not grounded or present enough to provide what I needed: stillness in the face of a disarmingly raw world.

Stepping back a bit from your son (not being emotionally cold) and finding a little bit of sanctuary for yourself could help gain some perspective and disentangle the binds that tie you both so tautly together. You seem to be suffocating, and probably your son feels that too. We must remember that our small children are also just that- small children, regardless of their karma etc. Your son needs sanctuary as well. Does he have his own space? Does it have things that HE likes in it? Does he have time to just simply be without too many distractions? This is simple common sense stuff, but sometimes we need reminders. My own son is 9 years old now and only recently have I felt there was hope he would not become a total sociopath. (He is very Aries-Aquarius-Pisces and has libra moon in the 8th house: all alone.)

I must go be with my 5 year old daughter now. We have our first girl date in months!
Please please feel free to ask more questions, or give feedback.
I am also studying Reiki which I integrate with Astrology. Reiki is amazing, and has freed me from some very very painful black "cords". It is energetic-spiritual work dealing with the clearing and strenthenng of the chakric system and other things.
This is something that can be done long-distance too. I am 2nd level now (Master is 3rd) and will want to "practice" on some people before I move to 3rd level. Let me know if you're interested.

Good luck!
love and light,
eleanor