Recently, due to my new found obsession with astrology, I discovered that I have scorpio moon conjunct pluto. After discovering the powerful implications of living with this aspect and going as far as to purchase "Hades moon: pluto in aspect to the moon" by Judy Hall, there has been alot brough to my attention regarding pluto moons and their relationships to their mother.
Our mothers have been negatively described as "devouring", "emotionally Controlling", and "unescapable" to name just a few. This to me has been very unnerving, as more and more familiar characteristics have been brough to my attention. I always thought her involvment in my life was due to us being "close", but I'm starting to wonder if that's what it actually is. All my life I have had a love/hate relationship with my mother. Sometimes I can't stand up to her, because I feel like there is no way I can win. This is a big confidence buster for me. I am never one to back down from a fight, as I have a quick temper and I love to ram my point home until the other person goes mad with the thought of fighting me anymore, but with my mother I pay very dearly by being emotionally guilted and somehow I feel like I am the one at fault in cases where it clearly is not. I feel like she has too much emotional control on me... like I can't hide from her. Whenever I get angry I always say, "never again, I'm not going to let her into my personal life", but somehow things get better, and I crack, hence completeing the cycle. She is a very emotional person, and is almost like a bully. Most of the time my father has to attend to her and her emotions, leaving me with little bonding with my father. I am trying to create a better relationship with my dad, but find it hard because he is not emotional like me or my mother, and when there is a fight between me and my mom, I feel that he feels he needs to take sides. There have been many things that I deep down inside cannot forgive of her, times when I've needed her and she has let me down. times when I needed to be understood, and she has outright refused to listen. I have had to lean on myself inside many many times in the face of real psychological breakdown. in spite of all of this, we do like to spend time together, and understand one another emotions very well. She thinks we are very close and best friends. Although we may be very close, I feel like it has gotten out of hand, and honestly I don't know what to do about it.
She is a pisces moon, rising and sun. I am a scorpio moon, pisces rising, and virgo sun.
I need her, and love her, but all I want to do is lead my own life and get away from emotional guilt-tripping and control.
Surprisingly, Most of this has been outlined in the book , and it's been more painful for me to read than I previoulsy thought. They say that this has to do with my moon pluto conjunction, and that it is inevitable. That I will never escape this. This depresses me.
Does anyone else out there have issues like this with their mother as a pluto-moon individual? This interests me greatly, and to be honest I need to know that I'm not alone.
Our mothers have been negatively described as "devouring", "emotionally Controlling", and "unescapable" to name just a few. This to me has been very unnerving, as more and more familiar characteristics have been brough to my attention. I always thought her involvment in my life was due to us being "close", but I'm starting to wonder if that's what it actually is. All my life I have had a love/hate relationship with my mother. Sometimes I can't stand up to her, because I feel like there is no way I can win. This is a big confidence buster for me. I am never one to back down from a fight, as I have a quick temper and I love to ram my point home until the other person goes mad with the thought of fighting me anymore, but with my mother I pay very dearly by being emotionally guilted and somehow I feel like I am the one at fault in cases where it clearly is not. I feel like she has too much emotional control on me... like I can't hide from her. Whenever I get angry I always say, "never again, I'm not going to let her into my personal life", but somehow things get better, and I crack, hence completeing the cycle. She is a very emotional person, and is almost like a bully. Most of the time my father has to attend to her and her emotions, leaving me with little bonding with my father. I am trying to create a better relationship with my dad, but find it hard because he is not emotional like me or my mother, and when there is a fight between me and my mom, I feel that he feels he needs to take sides. There have been many things that I deep down inside cannot forgive of her, times when I've needed her and she has let me down. times when I needed to be understood, and she has outright refused to listen. I have had to lean on myself inside many many times in the face of real psychological breakdown. in spite of all of this, we do like to spend time together, and understand one another emotions very well. She thinks we are very close and best friends. Although we may be very close, I feel like it has gotten out of hand, and honestly I don't know what to do about it.
She is a pisces moon, rising and sun. I am a scorpio moon, pisces rising, and virgo sun.
I need her, and love her, but all I want to do is lead my own life and get away from emotional guilt-tripping and control.
Surprisingly, Most of this has been outlined in the book , and it's been more painful for me to read than I previoulsy thought. They say that this has to do with my moon pluto conjunction, and that it is inevitable. That I will never escape this. This depresses me.
Does anyone else out there have issues like this with their mother as a pluto-moon individual? This interests me greatly, and to be honest I need to know that I'm not alone.
posted by:
|
Canada
|
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 10:06 AMI have (or had) the exact same dynamic with my *father*, because *my* Pluto-Moon conjunction is in the 10th House, not the 8th. The 10th House has to do with father issues, but just substitute one parent for the other and it's the same thing. He's also a Pisces Sun, interestingly. I got guilted, controlled, manipulated and swallowed until I broke free. And yes, I too used to think we were just exceptionally "close". In my case it went on until my late 20s. We don't speak now, and mostly it's for the best. I hope it doesn't end up that way with your Mom...not necessarily likely that it would, because triple Pisces people are not quite as rigid as my dad, plus women are a little more "evolutionary" in general. -
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Wed, April 16, 2008 - 3:15 PMPea,
ive the same conjunction and in the 10th as well, yet the parent i struggle with is mom. my guess is, the signs also got something to do, or maybe an analysis or something has to be done regarding the 4th and 10th houses, how theyre tradtionally the 4th for mom and the 10th for dad, but sometimes can be upside down.. like in my case =]
-
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 10:47 AMyou are not alone & personally speaking, since I discovered astrology as a tool to help me understand the dynamics involved ~ in my 20's ~ my relationship with my mother has greatly improved ~ so there is hope!
love all-ways,
mem
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 8:13 AMJen, no, you are not alone. I'll come back later or tomorrow and post more in depth about this and also give you the titles of books that have helped me in this regard. Hey, at least you've discovered this early. It took me until this year to fully understand this aspect of the moon/pluto configuration and I'm nearly 40. I wish I had liberated myself when I was younger. So be thankful that you can emancipate yourself, even if it takes a long time. -
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 10:12 AMYou know what I had recently found out? That Beyonce has a scorpio moon with an aspect to Pluto! I know how annoying celebrity astrology can be, and I apologize in this sense. But I feel like this is a good example because I can see how much involvememt her mother has in her life. They are close because they spend time together, like shopping and going out for coffee as Beyonce has said in a few interviews. But you can really see how much dominance her mother has on her life, where as she would do her hair, help pick out outfts for Beyonce, ect. I have the feeling that it goes much deeper. I don't see her father in the picture anywhere either. However, this is just speculation, and I am writing on somewhat of a whim. I've also been analyzing some of my other guy friends who have pluto moons (surprising most of them also have scorpio moons too) and they all are heavily linked to their mothers, willingly I do not know, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't. -
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Thu, April 10, 2008 - 11:57 AMHey Jen,
I've got Pluto conjunct both my Sun and Moon, and all are in the 12th house.
Indeed, I can feel much of your struggle because I've dealt with the same issues with my own mother for years and years. My relationship with her is very much love/hate, and I am in constant conflict between feeling intense resentment and love (and also pity) for her. She's very subtle, and knew for many years how to emotionally manipulate me into feeling guilt (and pity for her). Of course, the story goes much deeper than that. Anyway, while I think alot of this has screwed me up a bit, it has also made me a stronger person, and as the years go on, the deeper my conscience gets. -
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Thu, April 10, 2008 - 3:41 PMThank you everyone for responding, it has ben eye-opening to hear some of your situatons.
Lately, through this new perspective I can't believe all the things that I have been noticing! I have successfully distanced myself from her and her negative opinions, for two weeksm, and counting...pray for me. The more I try to show her my independence of opinion on topics like health and nutrtion, since me and my sister have become vegetarians, she accuses me of attacking her. I can't wait to move the hell out. She still treats me as a child. I'm 23, good marks in university, have a part-time job, received a pilots licence scholarship, and I try to help people. You think she'd cut me some slack? No. You think she'd start treating me like an adult? No. I just wonder why I care about her opinion so much.
Has anyone here successfully distanced themselves from their mother without cutting all lines of communication? I'm hoping by distancng myself like this, that she will stop expecting me (more like using me) to always "make it all better" for her. You know what I mean? As a scorpio moon, GOD KNOWS I have enough of my own demons to deal with.
-
-
-
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 10:17 AMWOW. Your post literally just gave me goosebumps (it's 75 degrees outside, btw); I have Scorpio Moon conjunct Pluto (with a Taurus Sun, Capricorn Rising), and I have a VERY similar relationship with my mother. We're incredibly close, and there have been many times throughout my life where this bond has caused me a lot of anxiety and frustration, especially when I become romantically involved with someone she does not "approve" of. My mom can be a very caring, giving, and loving individual, but she can also be subtly manipulative and downright domineering at times, particularly when I am doing something in my life that she doesn't understand the meaning of. I'd go as far to say that she can be smothering; she seems to want to be a constant presence in my every-day life, and because she can be so critical at times, I feel I'm constantly attempting to live up to her expectations, as well as my own (which oftentimes is not the same thing). I've literally said the same thing you have to myself NUMEROUS times ("never again, I'm not going to let her into my personal life"). when I was still living at home, we'd get into horrible fights. We're both not the kind to back down, though I feel I'm more willing to resolve and compromise, and she can definitely be something of a bully. Then, the next day, she'd act completely different, as if nothing was wrong. Talk about mind-boggling! Also similar to what you wrote, my father tended to get in the middle of these fights, and more often than not, he'd end up taking my side because I'd get so visibly emotional; we're both much more sensitive than my mother (at least more noticeably), though strangely enough, he's not as able to connect with me as my mom is. I do feel emotionally distant from my father because my relationship with my mom is so intense. It's stressful when the three of us hang out because I feel like they're both competing for me. It's an odd situation, but after reading what you've experienced with your mother, I'm REALLY blown away! -
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 9:05 AMSome of the books that have helped me are Toxic Parents and Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward. Sometimes the "good" but smothering mother can be much harder to get away from the outright abusive mother. I say abuse bc what we're dealing with here is emotional enmeshment; a mother who can't live without the child. In many ways, the child takes over the emotional needs of the mother. The mother doesn't know where she ends and the child begins and this thwarts the child's independence. It's your life, but an enmeshed mother makes you feel guilty for "abandoning" her when you make choices that she doesn't approve of. (Especially regarding men.) Sometimes with this aspect, the mother makes inappropriate admissions to the child, ie, about the parental marital problems or asks for advice regarding major life decisions, etc. This is a huge burden for a kid since the kid ends up feeling like the parent and thus responsible for the mother's well-being. This aspect could also denote a "stage-mother," imo, the kind that forces the child to live up to her own deferred dreams. "Make Mommy look good" is something that comes to mind. But what about the child's own needs, desires, ambitions, etc? There is subtle manipulation and blackmail in this regard with the mother alternating between being supportive and critical. You can really feel like a terrible person for living your own life! The mother may also make remarks that make the adult child feel as if the latter can't live without the mother, subtly making the adult child (who may actually be quite capable, in fact) feel afraid of being completely independent of the mother.
The real task is for the child to individualize her/himself away from the mother. In other words, the mother is always going to be dependent on the child to a certain extent; you will only be free if you stop letting her emotional manipulation get to you. This is easier said than done, I know and Pluto aspects are very "sticky" but often when we distance ourselves emotionally, we see that our previous perceptions were only illusions.
-
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 9:30 AMI always thought I had a good relationship with my mother even though I felt extremely responsible for her well-being even as a kid. Now, my mother is only 18 years older than I am and she has always been healthy, so where did I get the idea that I would have to take care of her and support her when she herself was always adverse to working? Well, I don't know, but I did. And it sure as hell felt like a burden. It wasn't until about ten years ago that I realized that my mother made me feel weak and helpless. For instance, by that point I was already in my early 30s. I had lived out of the house for 12 years already. I had lived abroad on my own and while there suffered a miscarriage (with only my boyfriend for emotional support). I had lived in Israel during the time of the bus bombings and during the Rabin assassination, was about to leave a contentious and abusive marriage without her helping me out (she lived in another country at the time) and I was slowly getting back on my feet. Not exactly a weakling, I don't think. BUT my mother would always say to me: "Your sister is strong but you, on the other hand, are fragile." I'd hear her say this and my reaction was to feel physically weak and discouraged. I couldn't figure out how she could have that image of me when my own self-image (and my own experience) was the polar opposite. After having survived pretty much on my own, how could she think that way of me? What was going on?
One day this past January I was telling my sister about how responsible I felt for my mother and she asked, Where did you get that idea?
And I realized, Man. My mother married a man who turned out to be abusive to both my sister and me and we never saw her stand up to him. She basically spent her entire adult life stoned, hardly working, while he supported her and, btw, she was always sharp and smart and could've tackled any job. She was insecure so she chose the path of least resistance. But, STILL, by the time she was my current age (38), my sister and I were both out of the house. She could've chosen to start over, without having to worry about supporting kids. But still she chose not to. She chose not to take care of herself and here I am, thinking that I have to give up MY LIFE, for her?
Well, that pissed me off. The other thing that pissed me off was her subtle denigration, going so far as to actually yell at me as if I were a six year old (Get out of the car NOW! that kind of thing). I mean, wtf. Also, her constant talk of us going on dating cruises together--weird, man.
She wasn't there for me when I needed her most. That sounds awful and self-pitying but it's true, even though I did always find her fun and charming. But she wasn't a real Mom, ya know? So I've decided to distance myself until I can get strong and withstand her games without getting caught up in them. In the future, if she gets sick or anything truly bad happens to her, yeah, I'll help her. But in the meantime, she can take care of herself. It's about time she became an adult and I'm not sacrificing my life anymore so that she feels comfortable. -
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 1:56 PMYou would not believe what I just found out-
For the longest time I've always wondered why I got along with my sister so well. We're basically close in age (2 yrs apart) and we spend many , many hours always talking hanging out, etc. She let me do her chart! She has Pluto opposite moon in Taurus! I have Pluto conjunct moon in scorpio. Maybe this explains why we feel very close to one another. She's a Libra with Cap Asc, and Libra sun, merc scorpio. I am Pis Asc and Virgo sun, merc virgo. People always comment on how close we are. Do you think that us pluto-mooners have intense connections with other pluto moons? -
-
Re: Struggles with Mother
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 9:40 PM>Do you think that us pluto-mooners have intense connections with other pluto moons?
That's been my experience, yeah.
-
-
