There's a career change in my near future, I can feel it: I'm a MSc mycologist right now, approaching 30, unhappy with my job options, thinking 'biologist' is not the quite the position for me anymore.
One of the (many) options I'm considering is art school (industrial design? or visual arts focusing on sculpture?) but I know very few people who've actually done any sort of formal education in arts.
I'm curious of impressions on the actual value of school to people who have gone this route? And also to people who have considered it then went another route?
posted by:
|
SF Bay Area
|
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Thu, November 23, 2006 - 9:48 AMSpeacking only for myself, I think most formal art schools (with rare exception) are great places to experiment in the social world of artist and absolutly terrible places to learn about art.
Furthermore, I think most artschools are a rip-off when it comes to building a career as a professional comertial artist and completely intrusive to becoming a professional non comertial artist.
I think the money could be wiser spent on a regular state or even community college ciriculum, with very simular results.
In bulk, I think art school is mostly a bad investment.
Having said that, I think some art schools are worth their wieght in gold. Some people are smart enough to know exactly what they want out of an artschool and know how to plug into the artist world using artschool as a platform. This is done before enrollment and seldom after. Like a person who knows they will have a career as an market designer if they attend a school witha great market design program with a high placement rating after graduation. every good school keeps track of who gets placed in the fields of their graduate study.
A would-be artist who is in it just for the art, is better off doing an apprenticeship with several working artist or simply taking some community college courses in specific mediums. You still get to be around the art scene but slip past all the "teacher needs to keep you enrolled for four years" politics. Most medium education comes through experience anyways, not formal guidance.
Still, theory has it's place, but you need never more than one understanding of art.
art is governed by communication.
everything else, is up to you.
my2cents
oxoxo
fucko
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Thu, November 23, 2006 - 1:48 PMThe US graduates 33,000 MFAs every year. I bet more are working as mycologists than fine artists. Industrial design and sculpture are such radically different fields. As someone who studied fine art in college and then worked in graphic design, I can tell you something like graphics or industrial design where you have to please the client even when it goes against everything you know to be true about good design is very draining creatively. It might be better to make your money in mycology, and use your spare time and money to take sculpture workshops and make art for art's sake. -
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Thu, November 23, 2006 - 9:17 PMYOU KNOW WHAT!? I'm in the same situation only I don't want to do anything. I'm so fucking bord that I invent some REALLY AMAZING situations. I wish to take the world over with my mind and make it as cool as I am convinced it really is. My problem not yours.
All I can say is that everything that could ever be said about art has been said. Whatever your grand idea ... it's been done. The system you want to make use of is like a battered whore in a dark corner of the night. It's been used ... by everyone. All you can do is completely own a system of your creation. It's like what my cold and distant daddy says about clothes. If you OWN it, it looks good on you.
In summation, there is no help for you. You're completely fucked. If you do one thing, you'll wish you understood the other. Your life is on the line and it's nothing more then passing news. If you do something great no one will ever be as touched by it as you are. YOU WILL NEVER GET YOUR DUE CREDIT. Your art may end up.......
unloved.
So fuck it. You go do what ever you damn well feel like doing. But if for one moment you get to experience pure mindless bliss while in the act of creation, then know you were saved. Being robed of your mind is the most perfect and most painful gift.I don't imagine you have anything better to do then to give and take.
Once again this is all reflection in the mirror of my own self / mind destruction. My problem not yours and you wouldn't be the only one who thinks it would be better if I just shut up. So for what it's worth, I'm sorry and fuck you.
-
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Thu, November 23, 2006 - 11:38 PMhmmmm...wow. Well, I'm an artist, who does not have an MFA, but who teaches BFA and MFA students (I am a visiting faculty member at SFAI). I want to get my MFA, but there's one overwhelming reason I need it, and that is because it is pretty much impossible to get a faculty position teaching art without it. Yes, I want to become part of the system....lol...actually I love to teach, and I love art, and I'm good at teaching it. But yea, in the end, I want to become part of the system.
Anyway - do you love to teach? I mean like it's what drives you? Or does making art drive you? The reason I ask is because if making art drives you, and you don't like to teach, an MFA may not be the best choice. The process of getting an MFA will certainly inform your work and your process, but it won't make your work sell any better...and depending on the way your work goes after formal art education it could make your work harder to sell.
And about the expense - some art schools, like the one where I teach, can be fiercely expensive. Others, like UC schools cost less than their private counterparts.
Oh, and about design jobs, it takes a certain type to handle those for any length of time. You have to essentially use your skills and creativity to create other people's visions....often creating stuff for people who hold all the strings, and have absolutely no vision. As long as you retain outlets for your own creativity you can keep from going insane, but be very careful down that path.
If what you really want is to work on your process you may be better off networking with other artists, and getting together to look at and discuss your work, as well as others'. If you want a far more structured approach, art school may be right for you. But think for a while about what you want out of the process.
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Fri, November 24, 2006 - 9:47 AMFirst, let me applaud your desire to change your career. Especially since you are unhappy, I know countless numbers of people who are miserable and continue to do what they are doing, for any number of rationalized reasons, usually pertaining to money.
I am a professional artist and a college professor, which means I have two full time jobs. Being a artist is a full time career, there is no mystery, no great truth is revealed, no higher calling, it is work. Now before you dismiss me and call me bitter or cynical, let me assure you I am neither. I love both of my jobs, I am the happiest I have ever been. And I don’t say this to discourage you one bit. If being an artist is where you passion lies, then go forth, do what ever you have to do to get there. If on the other hand, you are thinking a long the lines of “gee, being an artist sounds like fun” keep looking for your passion, because art-making may not be a good choice.
As for schoolin’ choose wisely. Any art school worth the cash, that you are going to most certainly fork over, should inform your work, provide a very strong foundation in art history and theory, provide practical, contemporary, facilities and experience, and supply and develop a network of contacts for when you are on your own. And it should be in a major art center, which means Los Angeles or New York. I do love San Francisco, and there are good, solid schools in the bay area, but Los Angeles is the center on the west coast. I strongly recommend going to school, I believe the environment and experience makes one a better artist, there is a glut of truly awful art and even more artists who don’t understand their own work and who are completely unable to talk about it.
Both CTPO and Eric make excellent points, having an MFA does not make you an artist, there are lot’s and lot’s of MFAs granted, but not many remain artists. Having the degree is also only part of the equation for getting a teaching job, if you are so inclined. Be aware, however there are VERY few teaching jobs in the arts, and it requires you to really work at being an artist as well as having that degree. Plus there is the paradox of teaching, which is that “in order to teach you have to have taught.,” and remember, teaching is a full time job unto itself.
Good Luck
-
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Fri, November 24, 2006 - 10:50 AM<<<and even more artists who don’t understand their own work and who are completely unable to talk about it. >>>
HEYYYYYY!!!!!
I resemble that remark...but you knew that already :-) -
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Fri, November 24, 2006 - 1:48 PMOh, not you. I believe you do know how to talk about your work, what you might be missing is the environment in which you are challenged to talk about it. Besides I really like your work! (and am still waiting for pair-a-dime shift)
-
-
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Fri, November 24, 2006 - 4:23 PMArt school is a scam. The only thing it guarantees you is huge debt. If you want to be around artists in and acedemic setting go t o SF State or some other public university. The worst art school I know of is academy of art. that business is just a front for real estate aquisition, a tax dodge and a way to milk starry eyed suckers out of their hard earned doe rey me. If want to learn sepecific skills take classes at the Crucible or better yet volunteer there and get a discount. Learn by doing is the best route.
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Sat, November 25, 2006 - 9:20 AMMarc makes and excellent point; avoid Academy of Art University, that's what they are calling themselves now. The same body that grants accreditation (WASC; wascweb.org) to actual, public colleges and universities does not accredit them. Savannah College of Art and Design is another. Run far, run fast.
On the other hand the Crucible in Oakland is awesome! -
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Sat, November 25, 2006 - 11:19 PMHey Marc - long time no see.
Take a look at Berkeley or Davis for example - I'm thinking about both of them myself. Berkeley's program is funded so at least you won't have to pay tuition...and Davis's isn't, but it's nowhere the cost of the private ones. I hear Stanford's is fully funded too...not that anyone wants to commute to palo alto ;-)
And yes, if an "art school's" only requirement for admission is a pulse and a check that clears, run away if you want to learn anything about art. If you are looking for a purely vocational program and have a ton of money to spend, then they are certainly an option. -
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Sun, November 26, 2006 - 7:21 AMMella,
Boy, I sit on both sides of the fence on this topic. While I think the college core courses are critical to any one's success in life. I'm not really sure that grad school helps except to get someone a get a better job.
As a person who already has a degree you have a lot of options. If you want to teach then Grad school is a viable option.
If you just want to learn technique and create. Then workshops or an apprenticeship that pay money is a better option.
As for myself, I haven't ever taken any art classes, my art history education was from traveling around the world. Every country that I was in, I visited all the museums and achitectural wonders that they had to offer. You might want to just look into going to school abroad to Spain, France or Italy. Many have wonderful traditional art programs. My technical ability was acheived by just going out and finding out how to create something (ie..other artist, the internet, and books)
Education or no education.....
Art is a fickle thing, you need to have an end product that people will want to buy or a gallery owner will not pick you up. To become a public artist it is critical that you not only have a mastery over your art but also, grant writing and project management skills.
If the art you want to create is BM style art good luck selling it. As a public artist I get commissioned but it is a hard sell and a lot more difficult implement. Sign companies work with a lot of neon, LED products but fire is pretty much limited to the Las Vegas market. As far as BM grants if you want to become known… hook up with the Flaming Lotus Girls, work hard, learn a lot and people will start to notice you. I will be going to the boxshop in two weeks let me know if you want to go.
I think networking and talent means more then schooling. (Unless it is technical art , kinetics or any type of sound art then formal schooling would be a hudge benifit). Resources in this type of medium are expensive and schools usually have a nice pool for students to create with.
If you want to survive as an artist…..
It is really about you having an end product that people want to buy and it's something that you love making.
If you can’t do this, don’t quit your day job… just dabble in your craziness.
Just my 2 cents and rambling on.....
Janine
-
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Mon, November 27, 2006 - 9:47 AM
I ran away to Death Valley for the long weekend, and I return to such a bunch of response! And thank yous, lots of good advice and opinions to consider.
Something I didn't mention is that I'm a Canadian citizen. USA schooling will likely be too much $$ for me; I've been thinking of Emily Carr in Vancouver www.eciad.ca which will cost me about $4000/yr in tuition. Drawback is that I'd have to leave the bay area, and my girlfriend, and the community and environment that's inspiring me to begin with. Not sure what to do with this.
My goal for going to school would be to learn the skills to move the things in my head to physical reality. The art's already in there, but I need to fine-tune the execution. Learning new skills while working a 40hr week is hard, slow (and I need this job to keep my current visa); but I already know I do well in an immersive school environment, I think it'd be beneficial for me to view school as a tool to kick my ass into learning technique and to create -- but will it be, according to people who've done it?
As for grant writing, project management etc I can already do this, I already have on a number of occasions (I wrote 2pir's proposal that ended with us granted most of our projected budget from BMorg; and I wrote a proposal that convinced three agencies to give me a huge amount of money to go to the high arctic, ha - it was an awesome trip.) This is not a goal for going, it's an immersive skill-building creative environment that I'm seeking. Though NIMBY/crucible/etc has been fantastic so far and will continue to be if I don't go the school route, and I'lll continue to learn what I need to there as well, just not as quickly for me personally (time/attention), and maybe not in the directions that I would in a school.
Ok, I'm still thinking and starting to ramble, and at work right now; I'll write more later :) -
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Tue, November 28, 2006 - 9:23 PMYOU'RE CANADIAN !!!! WTF are you doing here. CAM-A-LOOPS is the place ya outa be, load up the truck and move to Canadee. You are a citizen of a civilized country. San Francisco is a very expensive mistress who won't love you back. Sure it's fun to play here while yr young and nothing matters but.... do it take advantage of what you got back home. you can always come back when yr done with school. I wish I was Canadian. -
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Fri, December 1, 2006 - 4:20 PMI followed the opposite path. I went to music school and I wanted to become a professional musician. After doing a few gigs and sitting in a few recording sessions I was done. I wanted to have nothing to do with that world. The Music World is more cutthroat than Wall Street, everyone is trying to get their cut. Not to mention the general flakiness and lack of professionalism. And the egos. And the financial part, which I'd deal with if it wasn't for the other stuff.
So I dropped out of music school and got a doctorate in engineering and now I sometimes get to do something technically interesting, sometimes not, and I get to play my guitars and my synths for fun. Being a professional musician because you like music turned out for me as the equivalent of being a prostitute because you like sex. There's way more stuff to deal with than the "art" itself. I don't know how this translates to the art world where you make things that people see and touch, but there it is.
-
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Fri, December 1, 2006 - 4:21 PMBut I'm happy I went to music school. I know what a tone cluster is. And stuff. -
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:40 PM<<<I know what a tone cluster is.>>>
That reminds me, I was just listening to a track by Jessica Simpson...I think I heard a "tone cluster-fuck" in there somewhere.
PWAAAAHAAHAAHAAHAA
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:08 AM>I know what a tone cluster is.<
I've been schooled at BM so I know what a cluster fuck is.
-
-
Re: formal schoolin'
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:38 PM<<<There's way more stuff to deal with than the "art" itself. I don't know how this translates to the art world where you make things that people see and touch, but there it is.>>>
Oh, pretty much the same.
-
-
-
-
-
-
