(or Legal Testosterone boosters and your experience)

topic posted Tue, May 12, 2009 - 1:47 PM by  Jack
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I'm looking (again) into Testagen and other similar products. I'm really interested to hear from those who are on them or have done themand of your experience, unedited. What was your program? Drawbacks? What did you stack with? How was your health? Sexual side effects.... the whole gamut. This can be an open topic or you could feel free to drop me a line. I'm seriously just trying to stir up more research...get some perspective on those who have taken supplements and which ones the liked and got the best benefit from with least hassle.
posted by:
Jack
SF Bay Area
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  • I have no use for the growth producing stuff. I'm not into bulking per se so maybe that's part of it but I just eat good food and work out.

    • This is a body building tribe, you should be into bulking - that's the building part.

      Yeah, I got no'tin either though. I'm female and only only taking protein and BCAA. I heard there are some good boosters out there though.
      • *******This is a body building tribe, you should be into bulking - that's the building part. **************

        Oh I think that's taking a rather narrow view.

        Aside from my personal non-enhanced approach to weight lifting, I have something more that steers me away from enhancement products.

        Anything that promotes growth can possibly also promote growth of malignant growths. This is seen in Stem cell work where the ability to control the growth on the level of the CoDna the RNA and ensure mitochondrial cooperation is complete. If it takes off the intended path strange and bad things can happen.

        Doctors Lucio Tentori & Grazia Graziani of the Department of Neuroscience, University of Rome have done some excellent work which indicates a serious need for further study of a possible linkage between accelerated growth products and complimentary development and acceleration of the growth of cancerous growths in the body.

        They observe that Anabolic steroids are seen on other literature to encourage liver tumors ( the word they use is "provoke").
        Growth factor-1 (IGF-1) is tied to cancers of the colon, breast, and prostate. IGF-1 pushed cells to reproduce faster. Another function og IGF-1 is that is inhibits apoptosis ( apoptosis is DNA programmed Cellular death). Their research shows that IGF-1 accomplishes this result by either by triggering other growth factors or by interacting with cellular molecular pathways which have an established role in carcinogenesis and cancer promotion. More recently, the finding that erythropoietin (Epo) ( which is often taken to encourage red blood cell production) may promote angiogenesis ( making new blood vessels) and inhibit apoptosis or modulate chemo- or radiosensitivity in cancer cells expressing the Epo receptor, raised the concern that the use of recombinant Epo to increase tissue oxygenation might favor tumor survival and aggressiveness.

        Apoptosis inhibition is is particularly disturbing because this is the same4 molecular mechanism that makes Nicotine inhaled as smoke so dangerous. The nicotine causes cell death in the respiratory system. However the nicotine causes the cells to interpret their internal signals to tell them that they should not die. This cause the cells which are damaged by the nicotine to remain partially viable in a damaged state where they are highly likely to produce malignant defective cells that can be cancerous. And Interestingly Marijuana does not do this.
        But I digress.

        If it is true that IGF-1 promotes cell cycle progression and inhibits apoptosis ( and there is no reason to say it is not true) then IGF-1 is both pushing cells to reproduce faster while preventing damaged cells from dying off and in that manner can cause the development of cancerous growth - which the IGF-1 will also be encouraging to grow at an enhanced rate.

        If it is also true that Epo both inhibits apoptosis and interferes with known cancer treatments that use radiation or Chemo therapy then it too is a potential horror story because it is possible that it can make the only treatments available for some cancers less useful.


        So I steer clear of those things for other reasons than some "Mister Natural" thing . It is my belief that these things have been shown to be of adequate risk that their use is not worth the potential downsides.
        I really don't care If I leave a good looking corpse.



        • Understood... But I want to hear from those who actually have taken the products. I was well aware that there would be risk that this topic could easily morph into a debate on natural vs enhancement. I just wan it to stay nuetral, no judgement and more truth and fact from those who have taken the products and their actual experiences with them. It would be most helpful in making my choice.
          • I hope you find it. For my part I won't debate here, though for the record I don't think its at all narrow to say that body building is about building muscle. The only reason I'm even adding this post is to suggest you go off-tribe to a forum that specializes in body building. Maybe you'll get a nibble if you cast a wider net. Yes, you'll have to deal with more flashy ads, but people not only post their workout routines, but also their supplements. Its kind of dead in here.
            You could also ask around your gym or nutrition supplement store, but if you do that get several opinions - they may just be trying to make a sale.
            • *************won't debate here, though for the record I don't think its at all narrow to say that body building is about building muscle. **********

              Oh yah. My use of the phrase "bulking" refers to the sort of development that people often pursue that is different than straight forward strength training. Both involve building muscle.
          • Not every one who smokes tobacco gets cancer.

            Back in the 1970's I worked in a series of little 15 - 20 man machine shops.
            Standard practice in all of 'em was to use 111 Trichlorethane as the universal degreaser.
            There was always a vapor tank in which the stuff was heated to make a vapor. You'd lower a basket into the vapor to clean your parts. There wwas a bank of chilling tubes that ostensibly prevented the vapors from escaping.
            Then we cleaned the machines with rags soaked in the stuff and washed out tools and parts in t it too.

            The owners would always keep the factory Steel drums in a locked room replenishing the common supply on weekends and after hours so none of us would ever see the day glow Deaths Heads and warnings on the drums.

            The fumes in the shops were so thick most times that my eyes stung from the fumes.
            Meanwhile the owners usually had all the windows welded shut to prevent burglary. So there was damn little air other than that which came in through the open bay doors which would be shut in rainy or cold weather.

            Lots of guys didn't get cancer. I did.

            Anecdotal evidence (some person's personal experience) is usually unhelpful because the population is too small, the other variables are unknown, and maybe that person's experiences are rare. There's no way to know. I caution against taking Some person's anecdotal material as fact. It's merely that one person's experience.

            I am however, not in the business of judging other people.
            I'm just sharing what I know without pretending I have a hot line into cosmic truth or anything.
            .
            • AJ
              AJ
              offline 19
              You can use anabolics in moderation safely. Docs prescribe them all the time when you might benefit from some tissue growth. But Cliff is correct that your genetic sensitivity will factor into how you react to how much. And there are enough incautious, uneducated brotards out there that think 'more is better' that the stereotype of someone with severe side effects from funny drugs is quite accurate.
          • AJ
            AJ
            offline 13
            I have taken Gammo o, Vitrix, Xyience and many others. I have found that the side effects were different. I noticed when I was on any one of those I did lift like a mad man. I was also training at the time with a UFC fighter so, my cardio workouts were awesome as well. Now the side effects. I grew body hair on the back of my arms as well as my lower back that I never had there before. I was 33 at the time. My eye brows started grow real thick and long. I did have an erection just about all day. Keep in mind I was also using a nitric oxide boost as well. Since last year I have achieved what I wanted so I use just a Yohimbe bark supplement now and fat burner with a multi vitamin. The yohimbe is actually considered as a test boost. That works fine for me now. How ever those days on Gammo O was crazy.
            • What is a "test boost"?
              • AJ
                AJ
                offline 13
                Test Boost is short for testosterone booster. Obviously I am in the wrong tribe. I expected some of the comments above, to be more informative for the person who was intrested in test boost. There were alot of people not familiar with natural test boost vs. artificial, like anabol, anadrols and what not. I am all natural using bark extracts and root extracts. However, there is psuedo natural as well, that I have done, but not currently. Psuedo is still considered natural though, to an extent. I have trained with alot of people who use both illegal and legal test boosts. They talk of different side effects using illegal then I do on natural. The only reason why its considered illegal, is because it was not prescribed by a doctor.
                • Thanks AJ! Dude you given me an actual real deal answer and have provided some serious alternatives to investigate. Thanks dude.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    AJ
                    AJ
                    offline 19
                    Gamma O is just CLA + Gamma Oryzanol.
                    GO has shown zero efficacy for anabolism or serum T changes in controlled trials.
                    CLA may aid with fat loss, is a decent antioxident, and its easy to get in grass fed meats.

                    Vitrix is just Tribulus Terrestris.
                    Again, no anabolism or serum T changes in controlled trials.

                    The last batch of over the counter supplements that actually provided some anabolic benefit were the "prohormones" that were banned in 2005. Naturally, anything that provides real anabolic benefit also tends to to have androgenic side effects.
                    If you're going to risk androgenic side effects, you're probably better off using real anabolic steroids.

                    On the bright side, Vitrix, and Gamma O have little risk to anything but your wallet.
                    • AJ
                      AJ
                      offline 13
                      Wow! Who has used Gamma O? I have. I do not disagree. It is derived of rice bran oil. That explains the fat loss. If you want CLA dont choose Gamma O. You want a supplement derived of safflower seeds. Yes, CLA is in grass fed meats as well as cheese. However the subject is test boost. I know first hand how powerful it is as a test boost.
                      Again, who has used Vitrix? I have. Yohimbe is a natural herb like that of Tribulus Terrestris. Thats why I use Yohimbe now, an hour before I lift. It is in all what you are looking for, in aiding your body building experience and getting results.

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