Hey, snobs...

topic posted Tue, November 3, 2009 - 2:11 PM by 
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Now that we're swinging into Dickens season, here's a question:

Folks do what they can with the resources they've got, and there's a whole lot of fine costuming at the fair, but much of it still doesn't ring true enough to me. Sort of cobbled together and not convincing.

Name some simple things that would help improve the overall look of the costuming at the fair in general.
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  • Re: Hey, snobs...

    Tue, November 3, 2009 - 2:39 PM
    For the ladies:

    - support garments and with that tailoring of your upper halves to match
    - more period hairstyling - the fun that can be had with false hair!

    For the gentlemen:

    - better tailored jackets/coats
    - square bottomed vests
    - pegged pants
    - and of course cravats, cravats, cravats
  • Re: Hey, snobs...

    Tue, November 3, 2009 - 2:44 PM
    Men:
    High waisted pants that are overlapped by your waist coat. "Gap-osis" was never period and looks horrid. If I can see you shirt (or skin) between your pants and waist coat, you are doing it wrong.
  • Re: Hey, snobs...

    Wed, November 4, 2009 - 9:09 PM
    NO SHELVING HOOPS!!!

    *froth, foam, twist*
    • Re: Hey, snobs...

      Wed, November 4, 2009 - 11:46 PM
      I know I suffer from WHL, but my material is thin and it's so damn hot I just can't fathom wearing yet another layer. I'm using my fan constantly as it is. Maybe I should make a hoop with ruffles out of thicker fabric.
      • Re: Hey, snobs...

        Wed, November 4, 2009 - 11:55 PM
        Oh, and one more thing...I know we are inside a barn, but......
        It is supposed to be OUTSIDE IN WINTER. Snow, cold, etc. I just wish the gel colors for the streets were blue (cool) instead of flame, bastard amber, and straw. Yes, London often suffered from horrible, yellow fog/smoke mixtures that were choking and nasty, but we're supposed to be portraying the BESTof London, an idealized London. We don't have open sewers, do we? So why the London Peculiar?

        Warm color gel for INTERIORS would be appropriate and serve to heighten the difference between outside on the streets and inside in the candlelight/gaslight.
        • Re: Hey, snobs...

          Thu, November 5, 2009 - 12:02 AM
          Hear, hear!!
          • Re: Hey, snobs...

            Thu, November 5, 2009 - 12:50 AM
            Good idea! Who is in charge of lighting? Can we have a chat with them about the lights?

            • Re: Hey, snobs...

              Thu, November 5, 2009 - 2:36 AM
              Ed Herney does the lighting. I talked to him about the subject years ago when I was on crew, but don't recall his reasoning...perhaps I'll chat him up : )
              • Re: Hey, snobs...

                Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:49 AM
                As I understand it, the warm colours are suppose to lend an aura of cosy, seasonal enchantment. Frankly, a bluer light palette would not be very welcoming for our guests, not to mention the hell it would play with our makeup.
                • Re: Hey, snobs...

                  Thu, November 5, 2009 - 10:45 AM
                  Worth looking into, but I suspect they have good reasons for the way it is. Contrast between indoors and outdoors might be interesting.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Hey, snobs...

                    Thu, November 5, 2009 - 6:52 PM
                    My understanding is it's supposed to emulat gaslight
                    • Lighting

                      Fri, November 6, 2009 - 12:56 PM
                      There's actually been some discussion of putting in some blue gels in place of the yellow ones down toward Mad sal's, trying to emulate the "It's later at night the further in you go" look they had back at Pier 45. One of the main reasons this hasn't happened is just inertia - the lights are already all made, you'd have to rip off a bunch of gels held on with very strong foil tape and replace them with new gels - and of course pay for the new gels and for the time of the crew remaking them.
  • Re: Hey, snobs...

    Thu, November 5, 2009 - 2:24 PM
    Dresses where the bodice/blouse match the skirt. Actually more dresses in general would be good. I see a lot of blouse and skirt combos, and my understanding is that those weren't common until later in the century. (Costuming people can feel free to correct me here).
    Oh and gloves.
    • Re: Hey, snobs...

      Thu, November 5, 2009 - 3:13 PM
      And speaking of gloves...

      *Warning: blatant self-promotion dead ahead.*

      I will again be selling hand-knit mitts, snoods and shawls during workshops. I can also take commissions if you want something specific or a color to match your costume. I even have some vintage patterns to work from of interested. Otherwise all designs are my own.

      We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant. Thank you.
      • Re: Hey, snobs...

        Thu, November 5, 2009 - 3:26 PM
        *Warning: blatant friend-promotion dead ahead.*

        And her work is gorgeous!
        Get yourself a Carrie Original today! Or Saturday! (Or Sunday)
        Do it!

        /promotion
    • Re: Hey, snobs...

      Thu, November 5, 2009 - 5:09 PM
      It's my understanding that blouse/skirt combos are period but they need to be done right (with appropriate shawl or jacket and accessories). I wear a skirt/blouse/zouve combo. I have a feeling it might be a little more American than English, but I have plans to make a matching bodice sometime in the future.
  • Re: Hey, snobs...

    Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:52 PM
    A couple of things having read other posts..

    Yes, for our esthetic no hoop lines would be attractive...especially for the upper classes. But don't kid yourself. Hoop ridges show up all over in photos of our period. As do lots of wrinkles...

    Fewer skirt and blouse ensembles.....in the 1840's it was much less common...but rightly or wrongly many people are using a more mid century design...and its often an easier design especially if a jacket isn't employed.

    Gaps between trousers and weskits are just plain out unless you're part of the lowest classes.

    More interesting hat/hair treatments. But again, hats, bonnets for example are a pricey accoutrement...I'm making one this year and even making it its just under $60.00. The one's you buy are between $65 (basic felt no trim) or up to several hundred for a handmade design.

    So, while I really do approve of improving our costuming, I'm sensitive to the costs/time involved in so doing.
    • Re: Hey, snobs...

      Thu, November 19, 2009 - 10:48 AM
      "The Great Dickens Christmas Fair is an authentic re-creation of 19th-century London with all the color, warmth, and merriment of Christmas during the time of Charles Dickens (1840–1860)" - from the costume approval section on the website.

      We have to remember none of Dickens fair is holding to just one year- just like characters do not have to hold a strict book timeline with their acting during the day. The costuming is a range of dates and some of those styles that are mid- century are approvable and appropriate to Dickens fair because we are doing a range of years. Dickens books themselves ranged over different fashionable ideals.

      Yes the swiss waists and zouave jackets come into fashion later but they did emerge within the period we are portraying. I personally would hate "everyone" to be going around in the same style dress of matching bodice & skirt. Different people would have worn different styles based on their class, age, ability to afford new fashions, or if they were "ahead of their time" style wise. New fashions emerge from somewhere... No you can't have people going around in elliptical hoops or bustles but we can maintain historical accuracy incorporating a range of years.

      I personally want to see more Garabaldi blouses which are 1860s - and with decoration on them, or even, gasp, colors. I like the blouse/jacket look. I even think Liz might be encouraging them but I didn't get to take her class this year so I could be mistaken. Also I'd like to see more beautifully decorated chemisettes within necklines of tailored bodices. Bodices that went up directly up to the neckline weren't the only ones worn. As I go through fashion plates I am amazed at the variations. Almost anything I can think up they did!

      As for it being an easier design, yes if you can get a new person into an appropriate blouse, skirt, short cape or shawl, & bonnet. Then they are much further along the path to looking like a Victorian lady. It is easier to get a good "fit" on these things without spending a lot of time and/or money on altering or tailoring a well fit bodice.

      You are exactly right that hoop lines showed in period photos (but that is NOT the look Liz Martin is going for theatrically).

      Agreed totally on the period hair styles. If anyone hasn't taken Bridget's period hair class I highly recommend it. I have fairly thick hair to my butt and I'm still buying fake hair to plump up my braids to look more like period hair. Yes they wore hair pieces! Very few of us are blessed with hair as thick or long as Amy Liebert.

      Steps off soap box.
      • Re: Hey, snobs...

        Thu, November 26, 2009 - 12:55 AM
        What are 'pegged' pants, if you please?
        • Re: Hey, snobs...

          Thu, November 26, 2009 - 1:19 AM
          Pegged trousers taper from the knee (or sometimes even from the hip) to a very narrow opening at the ankle.

          Think of them as the *anti-bell-bottom.*
          • Re: Hey, snobs...

            Thu, November 26, 2009 - 10:10 AM
            faireapprovablecostume.tribe.net/photos

            All these are "pegged".
            • Re: Hey, snobs...

              Thu, November 26, 2009 - 7:07 PM
              ...well, almost all. The swell on the left in shooting trousers in the picture "The horsey set" appears to be wearing fairly straight cut trousers.
            • Re: Hey, snobs...

              Thu, November 26, 2009 - 7:15 PM
              Also, I'd observe that pegged trousers tended to be an upper class / young man /fashionable sort affectation. (think modern GQ readers) The laboring classes did not go for such precise tailoring. While all upper class men should have *some* taper to the trouser leg....only the young rakes would go for the extremity of pegging that is seen in some of those fashion plates, with the narrow ankle and cuffs fitted over boot tops (and often held down with straps or ties).
  • Re: Hey, snobs...

    Fri, November 6, 2009 - 3:25 PM
    I think it's hard, because many people don't sew and/or don't costume, so they're stuck trying to put together/remake purchased items. The blouses definitely bug me -- we need more fitted bodices made of fabric that matches the skirt on women, higher waisted pants on men.

    Can I be horrible and snobby and say that there is a certain subset of female booth workers who definitely catch my eye in that they are wearing stuff that reads as bustle era (long jacket bodices that look sort of cuirasse style, skirts with fullness and/or drapery in back)? They look lovely, but they visually "read" a later era (okay, granted, I'm a costumer so I notice the differences; possibly the average customer doesn't).

    Oh, and if we're REALLY going to bump it up a notch... bell shaped hoops on women rather than A or curved A line would be fab. But I think that's asking for a lot, because it would mean making your own hoop and/or buying a really expensive hoop.
    • Re: Hey, snobs...

      Fri, November 6, 2009 - 3:29 PM
      Taking Miss Carrie's idea and running with it:
      *blatent self-promotion* I make some really *great* ribbon hoops. Not cheap, but they have the right look!
  • Re: Hey, snobs...

    Fri, December 4, 2009 - 5:35 PM
    More fiddley bits. Victorians had more teensy pleats, ruching, frills, etc. than most of us are willing or able to put on our costumes. Also, most of our costumes look new (because they are). The clothes don't look like well worn clothes, for the most part.

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