Hey folks I added a chart (photos section) of diesel fuel additives based on the amount of lubricity that they add to the fuel. These additives where tested against diesel fuel with no lube additives in the fuel using the HFRR (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) abrasion test scoring.
The way to read this chart is that ASTM standard says fuel should be blended to reach a HFRR score of not more than 520.
The fuel used in the test was rated at 636 prior to additives being used so thats the baseline.
EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association, the folks who make motors) wants/reccomends/desires a HFRR of not more than 460. Obviously the more lubrication the less normal wear and tear you'll see over a certain period of time. It's still a matter of speculation as to how much damage occurs at what rate in normal vehicles. Some folks claim that the lower lubricity of ULSD has caused them premature vehicle damage. I don't know and am not willing to engage in that debate, however I will tell you the top four diesel fuel additives and leave you to your own devices.
Just for the record, if you put motor oil or 2 cycle in a 2007 or newer vehicle you will make expensive problems for yourself. This has completely to do with the emissions control equipment.
1) 2% REG Bio-diesel www.biodiesel.org
HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement.
50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel
66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel
Price: market value
2) Opti-Lube XPD www.centurionlubes.com/XPD.htm
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
Cetane Improver, Demulsifier
HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement.
256:1 ratio
13 oz/tank
$4.35/tank
3) FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas Fuel Treatment www.fppf.com/
Gas and Diesel
Cetane improver, Emulsifier
HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.60/tank
4) Opti-Lube Summer Blend www.opti-lube.com/
Multi-purpose
Demulsifier
HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement
3000:1 ratio
1.11 oz/tank
$0.68/tank
Here's a link to the PDF Document if you need further interpretations of the chart results: inchoate.harm.org/~halbritt...e%20V3.pdf
The way to read this chart is that ASTM standard says fuel should be blended to reach a HFRR score of not more than 520.
The fuel used in the test was rated at 636 prior to additives being used so thats the baseline.
EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association, the folks who make motors) wants/reccomends/desires a HFRR of not more than 460. Obviously the more lubrication the less normal wear and tear you'll see over a certain period of time. It's still a matter of speculation as to how much damage occurs at what rate in normal vehicles. Some folks claim that the lower lubricity of ULSD has caused them premature vehicle damage. I don't know and am not willing to engage in that debate, however I will tell you the top four diesel fuel additives and leave you to your own devices.
Just for the record, if you put motor oil or 2 cycle in a 2007 or newer vehicle you will make expensive problems for yourself. This has completely to do with the emissions control equipment.
1) 2% REG Bio-diesel www.biodiesel.org
HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement.
50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel
66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel
Price: market value
2) Opti-Lube XPD www.centurionlubes.com/XPD.htm
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
Cetane Improver, Demulsifier
HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement.
256:1 ratio
13 oz/tank
$4.35/tank
3) FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas Fuel Treatment www.fppf.com/
Gas and Diesel
Cetane improver, Emulsifier
HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.60/tank
4) Opti-Lube Summer Blend www.opti-lube.com/
Multi-purpose
Demulsifier
HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement
3000:1 ratio
1.11 oz/tank
$0.68/tank
Here's a link to the PDF Document if you need further interpretations of the chart results: inchoate.harm.org/~halbritt...e%20V3.pdf
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Sun, December 2, 2007 - 11:00 AMSo as far as lubricating and helping your motor last longer with out wear and tear. Just adding 2% bioD is better than any fuel additive on the market right? -
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Sun, December 2, 2007 - 1:38 PMThat's what the chart says. Whether a fuel additive is required is certainly up for debate, but according to those tests, biodiesel and blends have excellent lubricating properties.
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This post was deleted by doctor
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Mon, December 10, 2007 - 6:01 PMThat an employee of theirs is spamming this tribe. -
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Tue, December 18, 2007 - 7:26 AM
Misconceptions
Q: Can using Prolong products void my vehicle manufacturer's warranty?
A: No, the use of Prolong products will not void manufacturers' warranties. Vehicle manufacturers are allowed to specify the motor oil grade and API (American Petroleum Institute) service requirements necessary to validate their engine warranty. Prolong Engine Treatment in no way alters the grade or other specifications of either petroleum based or synthetic motor oils, and Prolong Super Lubricants encourages drivers to follow the manufacturer's recommended service schedules. Prolong Extreme Pressure Multi-Purpose Grease Exceeds NLGI GC/LB (ASTM D 4950) standards. Vehicle Manufacturers are not allowed to specify that a particular brand of product be used with their equipment to qualify a warranty unless they provide that product for free.
Q: Does Prolong Engine Treatment have chlorine in it like bleach does?
A: No, although competitors have shamefully and inaccurately tried to make consumers think so by ridiculously showing bottles of bleach being poured into engines or referring to chlorinated or olefin paraffins as chlorine. For decades, tribologists -- lubrication specialists -- have known that CP's or chlorinated paraffins provide the most superior lubrication. The drawback to this approach was instability at extremely high temperatures. Enter Prolong Super Lubricants, with a revolutionary Aromatic Petroleum Distillate technology that is so unique it is patented. (click here to view our technology) The incomparable Prolong formula received the “1a” rating--the highest possible--on independent laboratory testing designed to determine the corrosivity of liquids when applied to metal, demonstrating the products are non-corrosive. The heart of Prolong AFMT™ technology is its unequaled chemical stability, providing the user with the best of both worlds.
Q: Did Prolong get sued or fined by the FTC?
A: No, the facts are that the FTC thoroughly investigated all of the tests and evidence that supported Prolong’s product claims in much the same manner as going through a very detailed IRS audit.
Prolong has never been sued or taken to court by the FTC.
Prolong has never been fined by the FTC.
Prolong did not make false product claims.
No employees of Prolong were found to have violated any FTC regulations.
We recognize how important the FTC's role is in protecting consumers and understand reasons for the extensive examination of all products in the engine treatment category. The end result of this activity can also strengthen the credibility of a company and product as well as provide consumer knowledge. In order to satisfy the concerns of the FTC staff after they had expended valuable time investigating all of Prolong’s product claims, Prolong entered into an agreement with the FTC in which Prolong promised that it would rely on “adequate scientific evidence” to substantiate its' product claims. No fines were assessed. No suits were filed by the FTC against Prolong. The agreement was entered into in early 1999. Five years have passed with complete cooperation.
Prolong Super Lubricants distinguished its conduct and had a much different experience than many of our competitors. The following products had claims that the FTC complained were false or unsubstantiated. The product owners were sued by the FTC and eventually entered into settlement agreements with the FTC and agreed to pay the following fines:
Date Product Name How the Case was resolved
1978 STP Oil Treatment Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $500,000
1995 STP Engine Treatment Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $888,000
1997 Slick 50 Engine Treatment Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $10,000,000
1999 Motor Up Engine Treatment Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $100,000
2000 DuraLube Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $2,000,000
2003 zMax Power System Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $1,000,000
Q: Do vehicles in your infomercial really run without oil, is that recommended?
A: Prolong would never advocate that any of our users operate vehicles without proper levels of conventional natural or synthetic oil. Prolong products use the oil as a medium to reach all the metal surfaces within the motor and our product instructions encourage conscientiously adherence to manufacturers' maintenance guidelines. Although we fervently hope that our customers never find themselves suddenly driving without oil, we quite honestly have run many vehicles without oil after being treated with Prolong Engine Treatment as a means of dramatically demonstrating the protective properties of our product.
In Prolong's first infomercial, Prolong World Challenge, dozens of automobiles, trucks and motorcycles were treated with Prolong Engine Treatment and then drained of engine oil, before running in the scorching temperatures at Willow Springs International Speedway in the California desert. Perhaps most memorable was Al Unser, who thought he would never make it half a lap, continuing to race the $60,000 red Viper around and around until he himself had to call it quits even though the car was still going strong. Sandra Bartley, 20-year test and race car driver, drove all through Los Angeles and then a circuitous mountain route to Santa Barbara with no oil -- after personally inspecting the car herself to make sure the filter was removed as well as the plug and oil from the crankcase. She arrived with no problems.
In our second infomercial, Prolong Across America, company spokesperson Miss Prolong Marnie Capurro, drove from Long Beach, California to Daytona, FL with only Prolong Engine treatment for lubrication, delighting in the expressions of disbelief every time she drove in to a gas station and asked to have the oil checked. In our current infomercial, Xtreme Machine Challenge, (click here to see this segment of our new infomercial) the same abused demo engine shown in the first infomercial, with cut oil lines and sand poured onto it, is resurrected for more oil-deprived torture... and again it fired right up.
The situations and results shown in all our shows are real. There were no camera tricks or gimmickry. Each of the vehicles first had Prolong Engine Treatment added to the motor oil, then allowed to circulate before the oil was drained. Our engine treatment formula adheres to the metal surfaces, so Prolong protection remained even when the oil was drained. We certainly do not want consumers to imitate the extreme example we have made to get your attention and prove the unique benefits of Prolong technology. We do know that Prolong Engine Treatment has saved equipment and money during oil and coolant loss for many consumers because they have thankfully let us know. Just take a look at our testimonials from everyday drivers, real people just like you.
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Tue, December 18, 2007 - 2:25 PM*Yawn*
Really you posted the FAQ from a oil lube additive on a thread talking about diesel fuel additives?! i was gonna delete it but your starting to entertain me with your foolishness.
So jester, please present some scientific data, like I've asked you for on several occasions or your gonna get the boot as I've warned you about privately and publicly for repeatedly spamming this list. I dont care if your product was handed down from the heavens, unless you have scientific evidence to back up your claims it just makes you a pesty salesman!
Facts please, just the facts -
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Wed, December 19, 2007 - 5:29 AM*yawn*, *yawn* the threat of expulsion because I have a different viewpoint, tut tut.
As I can't seem to find anyway to post a PDF of the Prolong / MPG+ test data which includes the various Institutes that have tested this, I've had to email you directly with the PDF.
FYI, just in case you can't be bothered to read through the PDF, one of the institutes that tested Prolong is the Battelle Memorial Institute.
And as I mentioned in my email - I ain't no salesman !
Why not have a chat directly with the manufactures of Prolong?
If any other members would like a read of the PDF here's the link -
www.prolong-uk.com/mpg/IndResTestData.pdf
Seasonal greetings to you and yer aine :-)
Thomas
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Wed, December 19, 2007 - 2:11 PMI don't make threats. I asked you to supply proof of your product or stop spamming. Thats not a request.
Salesman or not you came onto TRIBE.NET and started spamming any list you could think was slightly related to your product, singlehandedly posting this crap in 4 different threads. I know I checked you when you joined this tribe I saw your posting history.
I deleted that crap because it was an obvious attempt on your behalf to promote this product. Salesman or not it's blatant and evidently your the only person here who can't see it.
Product literature is nice but its still propaganda. If your gonna persist on promoting your product here at least provide me with some 3rd party test results. As you may note that is THE ACTUAL PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD.
Now where can I get ahold of this document: "Steven G. Fritz, Senior Research Scientist, Engine and Vehicle Research Division, entitled "Diesel Fuel Additive Evaluation", dated May 1989." and is that the last time that PROLONG was formulated and tested, how can you tell me that data from 1989 applies to ULSD from 2008? 19 year old data on fuel that has had major changes, sounds like a stretch to me.
But since your the rep for Prolong how about you post SOME ACTUAL DATA?
Happy Holidays to you and Yours at the Prolong office!
p.s. BTW Does your company make Carbonex too, because their is some serious plagiarism going on between that PDF document and this web page: www.combust.com/research.html
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Wed, December 19, 2007 - 4:10 PM> the threat of expulsion because I have a different viewpoint, tut tut.
Nah, you're just a twit.
Here's an MSDS for your product:
inchoate.harm.org/~halbritt...g-plus.pdf
Which is comprised of a few solvents, trimethylbenzene, polyethylbenzene, napthalene, some iron and "proprietary additives". How is this supposed to be of benefit to a diesel engine, particularly at 3000:1?
The PDF you referred to has conclusions and excerpts of studies, but no real studies. Then there's this:
Prolong Super Lubricants, Inc., marketer of one of the largest selling motor oil additives sold in the U. S., has agreed to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that the firm made unsubstantiated claims for its automobile motor oil additive, Prolong Engine Treatment Concentrate (ETC). Prolong Super Lubricants, Inc. is based in Irvine, California.
The complaint detailing the charges alleges that Prolong made unsubstantiated claims that compared to motor oil alone, Prolong ETC:
* reduces engine wear at start-up; and
* extends the duration of engine life.
The complaint also alleges that Prolong made unsubstantiated claims that ETC:
* reduces corrosion in engines; and
* protects against engine breakdowns.
The complaint further alleges Prolong made unsubstantiated claims that:
* benefits that may be achieved by using Prolong ETC in race cars or under racing conditions can be achieved in ordinary automobiles in conventional use; and
* testimonials and endorsements of consumers made in advertising reflected the typical or ordinary experience of members of the public who use Prolong.
....
www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/09/prolong.shtm
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Fri, December 21, 2007 - 7:19 AMHi Thomas
Thank you for your interest through the website. I would also like to thank
you for the efforts you are making towards telling others of your
experiences but would advise against such thankless ventures, as they only
cause frustration. We have found that it is often the case that people are
immediately sceptical of products such as ours, largely because there have
been so many that profess to do the same but simply do not work, and that
even upon furnishing them with scientific data their initial standpoint will
often never be overcome, and you will be drawn into ever more abstract
greivances. If, however, the gentleman in question wishes to remove you from
a forum you are wishing to partake in, we feel it is unfair that you, as a
loyal customer of ours, should be punished and would therefore suggest, if
he really wants to get to the bottom of this that he speaks with Monitions
Ltd. They are Europes largest independent oil analysis laboratory and are
fully aware of the properties and legitimacy of all Prolong's statements. If
you would like to ask him to speak with Mike Burrows 01909 471000, the
Managing Director of Monitions Ltd, I am sure that he can verify the claims
made. In addition, if you would like to give the gentleman my contact
details, I would be more than happy to discuss anything he wishes, to ensure
that you are not unfairly treated.
I hope this will suffice, and thank you again for your custom and efforts,
in what I am sure has already proved to be a frustrating venture for you.
Kind Regards
Mike Purchase BSc(Hons)
Consultant Prolong UK
tel: (01628) 828473 Fax: (01628) 828492 -
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Fri, December 21, 2007 - 12:09 PMI'm not calling anyone, you have the burden of proof here, not me. Post the data I asked for and quit skating around the issue. Its that simple.
You must be in PR. you dance around the issue like a politician. The email message was a nice touch though, did you write that yourself or have one of your buddies do it?
This tribe was formed with the intention of providing information based on science and knowledge not opinion and propoganda.
I'm sure you'll cry foul if I pay for some of this stuff and test it myself or have someone else do it so I'm giving you the opportunity to post your data now.
Kinda makes me wonder if this product is so wonderful why you/they don't just post the (current) test results.
I dont trust anything without test results. Its not suspicion its called science. How am I to know your special blends of solvents and benzenes works with ULSD and doesn't deprive me engine of much needed lubricity or doesn't add things to the exhaust profile that are not actually a benefit. Well it's not blind faith, its called test data. I could pour crushed up moth balls in your tank with a little benzene and veggie oil added in and tell you it was magic secret and most people would agree and swear they could tell a difference. That's not science.
And why do chainsaws need 50:1 mixes and your product only requires 3000:1. Thats like putting a sugar cube in 150 gallons of diesel.
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Fri, December 21, 2007 - 12:22 PMMy grievance isn't abstract, in fact, it's pretty concrete:
www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/09/prolong.shtm
Prolong, like very many others, sells snake oil. I really don't wish to be convinced otherwise as I'm not out looking for some magic additive to make my engine perform better, get me chicks, and turn me into a rock star.
Some people are concerned about loss of lubricity running ULSD in engines designed for LSD. There is no statistically significant data that I am aware of that suggests that ULSD causes problems in engines designed to run LSD. Nobody has proven that additional lubricity is needed, however adding some fuel additives does improve lubricity atleast in terms of wear scar. The data above shows that biodiesel performs the best of the additives tested, it's the cheapest of the lot, and it improves emissions.
The data you've given isn't science, but it may qualify as science fiction. Your magic 3000:1 fuel additive which is comprised almost entirely of solvents will do anything at all if I run it? There's already something on the market that will catalytically improve the combustion of diesel fuel. It's called LPG. There are a few systems on the market that I can refer you to if you're interested.
The Internet has been around for about a generation now. It's only a matter of time before the sum of human knowledge becomes available at a moment's notice. It is my hope that this fact will spell the end of snake oil salesmen. Please go away now and find a more worthy endeavor for your life.
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Re: WOWSA! Diesel fuel additive chart
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 9:22 AMThomas 86 the spam and thanx for playing but if you drop one more bit here without some scientific data your gonna find yourself on the out.
Regards,
Your Moderator
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No SPAM!
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 9:30 AMYeah so I had to delete that Thomas guy, he's been spamming every list.