I'm just going to second what S has said

I just wanted to say that whenever I watch pornography for even a day, I start to have a different view of women. When I see women on the street, I picture them in the porn and I dont see them as full human beings who have love and compassion and joy and pain and sorrow. I see them as cliche but "sexual objects." And I think to myself, if I see them this way, then men MUST see them this way right becuase men watch porn a LOT more than I do. And I am just starting to get sick of men in this culture and how they view the body. Women need to be viewed as sacred, as well as men need to be viewed as sacred. We need to get past the patriarchal society and be equal.

Just think of those poor shoes that are objectified by foot fetishists!

And gee - what about homosexual porn -- is a guy objectifying himself by watching other men?

(Yes, I'm being sarcastic, in case you didn't get it.)

Just get over it.

"We all know that sex is so much better when you have a special connection with your partner."

I wonder what you mean by 'special'? In the tradition that I work with (Taoist Sacred Sexuality) it's emphasized that _every_ partner is special. If a woman chooses to spend time with me practicing 'dual cultivation' she's a very special woman to me! Of course, it's my attitude and outlook that allows this to happen, and the fact that I'm taking full responsibility for my choices regarding my expression of sexual energy. There's nothing wrong with 'purely physical' if the physical energy generated is used consciously. Mixing in emotional stickiness can be a recipe for great confusion when it come to working with sexual energy. This is an area that is often overlooked by many 'Sacred Sex' practitioners.

As for pornography, the ancient Chinese 'Pillow Books' are exceedingly explicit and would, no doubt, be considered pornography by many even today. They were used by both men and women to enhance their sexual practices since they recognised that humans (and particularly men) use visual stimulus as a way to get their 'Sexual Qi' flowing.

I would agree that the vast bulk of modern day professionally produced pornography doesn't have a lot of energy. I suspect that this simply reflects the attitudes and environment that produce it. No Qi In = No Qi Out. What's fascinating to me is that some of the most popular material today appears to be 'amateur' footage of 'real people' simply enjoying themselves and enjoying being watched. If you want visual stimulus here's an idea: instead of buying a movie of silicon-enhanced droids why don't you go along to the Tantra Temple at one of The Netherlands best known clubs and enjoy the atmosphere?

"I can see it in their eyes."

That's the perfect way to put it!

Oh yes and it TOTALLY makes sense to me what you said about stimulating the heart chakra first, and then the lower ones....to me, anything less than channeling my sexual connections through my heart feels completely wrong for me and my energy...very fake and disconnecting. Describing it this way puts it way more into perspective for me, thank you!

Applause! Extraordinarliy well put, Sham. I agree with everything you've said. Thank you for saying it with such clarity.
blessings,
Dave

I have to say, Shamb, that I agree with you on this one.

I agree with you as well, I think everyone's definition of porn is different. Like I said, it is relative. For me, porn is anything besides a person that you are physically intimate with, that you direct your sexual energy towards. Usually in the form of videos or images. Directing my own sexual energy towards pictures or writing or videos feel unbalancing and disconnecting. And when others that I am *intimate* with direct theirs towards the same things, I can *feel* it, and don't want to mix my own energy with that kind of disconnection and unbalance. I agree that there are all kinds of takes on what porn is/could be, I am just giving my own definition, and it's effect on my own life.

Blessings and Namaste you lovely people! :)

I also happen to know some women who are involved in porn.

Your example of porn being a better choice than McDonalds is absurd. Yes she will make more money, but how will her soul feel? Getting involved in porn can follow you for the rest of your life, and it can utterly change the way a woman values herself. It's not just another job to choose because it's better than flipping burgers! The poor girl should choose McDonald's! "I'm down on my luck and want to feel glamorous for a little while" is just about the worst way to get into the industry and where a lot of the more exploitative videos are coming from.

Even women who do approach the business with much thought and enthusiasm can become emotionally scarred. It usually comes quite suddenly - a lady will feel empowered for years, and then one day, or one minute, wake up realize how much of her self she has sold away to men who do not care about her and want only to control and demean her. I'm not sure how you can argue that a woman isn't controlled by pandering to the tastes of a very sick culture.

I am speaking from personal experience and also from the experiences of several friends who have confided as much.

I'd agree that a lot of the anti-porn hoopla is promulgated by about people who have trouble dealing with their own bodies, their sexuality, and perhaps even their divine nature - or those who wish to mulct them - Asscroft.

But back to the line between spritualtiy and porn ...

>"Michelangelo's classic statue The David shows the young man's penis (and he's clearly not Jewish!)"

lmao..... I never once considered the fact that Michelangelo's "David is not anatomically since he is uncircumcised.

What's this all about? I am simply trying to have a discouse here. Why do people have to attack me? This is how I live my life. I am not trying to please men by having the FREEDOM to wear what I want. Maybe you should consider reading my blogs too instead of just looking at the pictures. Maybe this will help you Jon see me as a human rather than just an object.

Wow.

I wonder what tender pornography would look like - or if it's even possible. How would one create pornography designed to encourage tender feelings in the viewer? And would tenderness be satisfying to watch, in the way that lust and dirtiness is satisfying?

A friend of mine and I were discussing doing a porn site devoted to "hardcore hugging." It would of course be partly a parody, but perhaps some folks would enjoy just watching hugging videos. I'm not sure if it's much of a fetish...

I'd like to add that every pornographic film I've seen has shown a considerable amount of time of the man giving oral sex to the woman, so obviously the stereotype that it's all about the woman pleasing the man is unfair.

You can take apart my post; I won't go down to your level.
By dehumanizing and objectifying women, I mean that they become a source of labor and pleasure; emotional health and well being is not taken into account.
I hold the firm stance that people should have the freedom of speech. However, we all know that the industry has many problems with regulation. Women are treated poorly and not cared for properly, because it’s a profession that is frowned at and not tolerated well. Otherwise there would be a union formed by now, since it’s an old profession. It’s a business; a humanitarian approach does certainly not exist.
I am deeply grateful for all the opinions and the time you all took to write here.
I see a great disparity between the men and the women in this post. Of course there are exceptions, and the men who are more compassionate, in my opinion, (and I know it’s a bias one) probably have experienced real sacred sexuality. Others are just trying to speak for something they have never known. I am sorry for the people who never experienced the ecstasy of sacred sexuality.

"If they aren't willing to, then aren't you the one settling for less than you are worth if you accept them?
They are being shallow. There is no point of being with them, as that amplifies with them, as time passes."

Exactly my point. You're saying the same thing I am saying, only wording it differently.

As far as porn being good or bad, I am not passing judgment, only mentioning potential effects as I see them. "There is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so." - William Shakespeare

I don't need to be right or make others wrong. That's just more judgment. Even making that statement is quite possibly judgmental. The ego is a sneaky little bastard. And that's a judgment, too. Okay, let me quit while I'm behind. :-)

Yes, imagination is nice, but I'm partial to skin, among other organs. :-)

"Frankly, I don't think either of us is in a position to judge whether or not someone truly enjoys what they do, and I find it more than a bit pretentious that you do make that judgment for other people."
I totally agree!

Jon, I agree with you that the "whole sexual abuse argument is an ugly generalization, and demeans those sex workers who really enjoy their work." I've known some he consider their sexwork to be a spiritual honor and even a duty to help bring balance to the world.

However, I would respectfully disagree with your implication that because to get a job at a strip club a woman has to volunteer and is therefore something she necessarily wants to do. The fact is, if a woman is a single mother without job skills, flipping burgers at Mickey D's ain't gonna pay the rent, pay for milk or pay for diapers. Some women, due to economic situations, increasing lack of educational opportunities and financial support find the only way to get ahead is through sexwork. Then, when they start making large money, do you really think they're going to abandon it to become a secretary at 9 bucks an hour? By the time they're 30-35 and not making the tips they once made, and have no job skills and no place they know of to turn to they--and society--are in trouble.

No, I don't think all women in sexwork start for that reason. But even one starting because they have no opportunities and can see no other choice is one too many. And even though such a person applies and works their voluntarily, with no options, there's no freedom to choose at all.

Honor and respect should go to those who freely choose to be sex workers. Education and assistance should help those who look for other ways to be productive members of society.

"Those who feel they had no choice need information, support, and educational opportunities. Everyone should have the opportunity to do the work they want to do and become qualified to do, not be forced into what they think they must do because they see no possibility of other alternatives."

I wholeheartedly agree! What I am very strongly objecting to is the notion that the sex industry by it's very nature exploits and degrades women and that pornography is some sinister patriarchal plot. I would love to see the working conditions in the sex industry improve and maybe get the women unionized (although that admittedly has it's own mess of problems) but just because some of the more visible icons of porn are less than reputable characters with a plastic male-centric product does not make "porn" in its entirety something dirty or disgraceful. Stripping in Rapid City is a very different experience from stripping here in Portland where stripping is a fairly respectable and very common profession. Change our culture's attitude about women and I guarantee that our porn will reflect that. Porn gives the clients what they want and what we find sexy is what flourishes.

"If there's anybody else who actually has any first-hand experience with the sex industry then speak up"


Interesting topic. Great insights so far from everyone.
Maybe I can contribute a bit as well, as I have some experience with the adult industry, not professionally, but a friend of mine is a pretty successful porn director for Wicked Prodcutions (next to Vivid, both are the leading (high end) porn production companies).
I got to meet him over myspace, as he contacted me in regards to my shamanic experiences which he wanted to find out more about.
He was just interested in psychotropic plants and their healing effects, since mushrooms and DMT have helped him in his life and his life-long struggle with depression. I met him and we got along right away, He invited me to some of his film shoots, which was very educational and interesting.

I've never been at a porn film set before, and it was not what I imagined at all. Everything went down highly professional. No drugs backstage (except for some pot smoking), no random "fucking". It was just like on a real film set, except that the actors and actresses are naked and having sex. Not much of a turn-on because of constant changes and brakes between action and cut. I actually have to give the male actors some "kudos" for keeping it "up"...lol!
I went to a couple of shootings, got to know the crew and some porn stars I never though to meet ever in real life. I met veteran male porn star Randy Spears, one of the most humble and down-to-earth people I've ever met. He was very interested in my journeys to Peru and wanted to know more about ayahuasca. As I was talking to him, more people came up and listened, including the director and some female porn stars ( Justine Joli, Eva Angelina). It was a bit bizzare and I felt like in a twilight zone. Here I am talking about Shamanism to porn stars I only know from the tv/computer screen and some of them I have "enjoyed myself" to in the past.

I'm also a bodyworker/massage therapist and David, the director, asked me to bring my massage chair to the shoot. So here I am giving back rubs to porn stars, male and female, and they loved it. There was nothing sexual about it, just some good ol' bodywork to release some tension. Film shoots are always stressfulI, even if it is porn. I guess the only difference was that the girls are very comfortable being naked so they didn't bother putting a shirt on. I didn't mind eiher...lol!
They tipped me well and I even got some private clients out of it.
As I was driving home later that night I was just laughing at it all. Life is unpredictable and funny at times.

However, it didn't stop there. David, the porn director, asked me if I'd be up for a Shamanistic ceremony. He needed someone to sit in with, to hold space.
I've done many ceremonies in the past and my place in Topanga is well suited for such inner journeys. He was in particular interested in the "Spirit Molecule", the essence of ayahuasca.
So we started having ceremonies every new moon for about 6 months. He brought some friends, his girl friend, porn stars, penthouse models (penthouse pet of the year 2007 Heather Vandeven took part in one ceremony and had an amazing breakthrough in regards to her relationship issue with her boyfriend). David made peace with some of his demons he had been struggling since child hood.
Others had great spiritual insights as well. There was never anything sexual our orgy like things happening at any of those ceremonies.
As a matter of fact, you wouldn't be able to tell that the participants were actually working in the adult industry. One of my friends took part at one of the ceremonies during this time. Later when I told her who she just met, she couldn't believe it. She thought they were just "regular" folks looking for some spiritual insight......well, in the end, that is what they are : regular people.

During this time I became close with Justine Joli , a porn actress, who "works" only with girls in front of camera, but is bi-sexual in real life We dated for half a year, and even went to Peru together, did some healing journeys with San Pedro and ayahuasca. Btw, having sex with a porn star is no better or worse than having sex with a "normal" person. It's all comes down if two people mix well together in real life, no matter what fantasy these girls sell through porn. The interesting thing with Justine was that she's a complete different person in real life as opposed to the way she sells herself. I was not together with her because she's a porn gal, but because I like her as a human being, her character and how we vibed together, not just sexually. Sure she had her problems and I'm not saying that there is not a negative aspect to the porn industry. But fact is that the issues "these people" have are no worse than any issues "regular" people, you or me have.
She loves her job. She likes sex and likes to perform and model. She knows she doesn't have to do it, but she chooses so, because she likes to.

The way I got to know some people form the porn industry was because they were looking for meaning and healing, essentially looking for themselves, like we all do. They actually came to me for help and insight, not for partying and random sex. I never asked for it, nor was it ever my male ego-aspiration to date a porn star or hang out with a penthouse pet of the year. These are just images/appearances/fantasies and illusions that have nothing to do with the "real" person. In the end I have to laugh about it all, because I'm not the most social person, more like a hermit, living in the woods in Topanga. The irony of it all is amusing, but at the same time there is tremendous insight.

The biggest lesson in this for me was to never judge any human by their profession, especially if it is a profession that is judged as "bad, wrong, tabboo or evil" by mainstream society. Many people I met personally in the porn industry are in may ways more open minded and more down to earth than many self-proclaimed "aware, conscious or enlightened" individuals I've come across, especially in LA.
Interesting to note, is that some of my female friends reacted in disgust and offense when they found out I dated a "porn star", some of them who consider themselves "spiritual". Well, isn't it spiritual to never judge but show compassion and see others as Self?
The people working in the adult industry are human beings like you and me. They have issues, they have love, they have fear, hopes, dreams and everything in between. The fact that they work in this "lower" manifestation of sexual energy doesn't make them any less human. The contrary, I find people who deny the the lower aspects of sexuality or see porn as "bad" to be more dysfunctional and pretentious in many ways. It shows more about their own sexual issues and lack of true spiriutality than anything else.

I like sex. I'm comfortable with my sexuality. I don't confuse sex with love. I like to explore sex, but I don't have randome sex with any girl I can get may hand on. I'm very discerning and there have been periods in my life where I went without sex for about two years. There are not many women I can fully connect with and let go. And if I'm with one person, I'm with that person and don't have multiple partneres on the side. But that's just me and what works for me. There are no "rules" other then the ones we make up based on our conditioning.
Sex is the most denied and most underrated experience on this planet. I've gone into the depths of animalistic/lust up to practicing Tantra and Taoist Sexual Techniques to transform my "highly" sexual energy into finer energies rather than "shooting it out". It's ALL valid. Trouble only comes in if we deny any one of these aspects.
As someone else said on here, Porn is not the cause it's the symptom of a spiritual and sexual suppressed society.

All that happened a year and a half ago. In retrospect I can say that it all makes sense now. For anyone who's into astrology, my venus is in pisces in the 8th house, so there is Karma aspect for me in regards to Sex and also as a way to "relate" in relationships, sex had always been a transformative experience for me. I mean Sexual energy in general, not just the "act". So I find it rather interesting, because all my explorations with psychotropics have always been highly sexual and here I am doing shamanic ceremonies with people who work in the "Sex Industry".
The universe knows what it is doing. It provides lessons and it is up to learn from them.
I found it to be healing not only for them but also for me, as if the lower and higher sexual aspect of myself were fused and transformed.

And David, the porn director is shooting a new film. It revolves around an ayahuasca experience. It's still hard core porn, but his films are not the typical stuff you see on the internet. There is a plot and insight. He likes to make art and he's a big fan of Lynch and other great non-porn directors. He also likes to show the act of sex in various forms and fetishes without any censorship. And the only way to do this in this day and age is in the porn industry. The film, by the way is based on the ayahuasca experience I had in Peru. I even get a credit in it, as "advisor"....LOL!....I still have to make up a porn name, though. No one is using their real names in that industry, by the way.
Sure most people will push fast forward to get to "it", but still David himself is trying to change the adult industry through his own isnights and search for meaning. For him porn is art. What others think of it, doesn't matter to him at all.

What I can say from my own experience is that most people judge way too soon about what they think they know about porn and the people working in the adult industry. There is dark and light in everything and creator experiences him/her/itself though it all. It's just us silly humans who divide it all into good and bad according to our conditioned subjective judgments based on taste or projection.

Hope that gave a little insight into "the problem with Pornography".
As I see it, there is no problem with it whatsoever. The problem is with people who see it as a problem. For those who have issues with Porn, I humbly suggest to look inside and explore your own sexuality and see where it is blocked, because it has to be blocked on some level if one is offended by porn.
All chakras need to work in balance, from the most root/animalistic red ray, to the most spiritual indigo ray, never choosing one over the other, or giving one more importance than the other. It's about bringing them into balance and let the energy flow freely without obstruction.

now you are just stalking me. you are creepy.

OK, I will admit that good porn is hard to find. There is a certain look and quality of porn that floods the market, and the odd thing is that very few of the folks I know actually LIKE Hollywood style pornography, but it's ubiquitous! So I do my homework and when I find something I like I usually buy the video instead of renting so that I have it on hand and can introduce new folks. There's something out there for every taste, but just like everything else it takes some work to find the stuff you like.

Uhhh ' they know not what they do or why they do it. '

It's all about the heart and spirit. And and attempting to achieve a transcendent understanding to escape the toxicity.
The problem with associative studies is that events which seem to occur congruently may not have anything to do with one another. This is called superstition.