There is something that is very important about the psychology of politics. Largely I would agree with you Deborah, but one thing which I share in acquiring a psych degree is that depressed people often have a more realistic view of the world, but are lest apt to make accomplishments, while people who are less depressed, are less realistic, but also are more likely to make accomplishments in their lives. Now I am not saying anybody in this tribe is depressed, but our culture behaves exactly in that way. There is a cycle of the human condition which things don't happen if we don't think it happens; so we have to act like things we want to happen will happen, or nothing gets done.

>i notice here you seem to be identifying with, or resigning yourself to being a part of, conventional america, and you seem to be shifting the responsibility for change in your own life to 'people' - i am not trying to ride your jock, i am just trying to point out an undercurrent of attitude of futility that i feel is very common. we don't need to wait for social revolutionary heroes to make some big awesome movement that we can join onto, and we don't need to be awesome revolutionary heroes - we can do things differently for ourselves with those around us, and if other people are inspired to do the same, then awesome - we have an accidental revolution on our hands.

Maybe I didn't do it very well, but what you say is exactly the point I'm trying to make. The responsibility for effecting change lies with each and every one of us. I just think you're kidding yourself if you think change will happen overnight.

>i notice here you seem to be identifying with, or resigning yourself to being a part of, conventional america

If you knew me in real life, you'd realize how hilarious this statement is. :) I have no desire to lead a conventional life, and I don't think I ever have.....

I rarely lapse into a feeling of futility (unless it's been a particularly bad day), and continue to work on the values that I think are important.

>the sorts of things i'm talking about take effort but are fairly straight-forward and attainable - i'm talking about cohousing (even if not cohabitating - though i am shocked by people's reaction to the prospect of sharing living space with friends), food coops or even farming coops, local news papers, community education initiatives - but the crux here is that rather than people simply espousing an arbitrary do-gooder philosophy, they are trying to work together to become more self-sustaining, more self-reliant, more educated, more loved, more free of financial risk, more free to basically do whatever they want rather than worrying about paying bills and acquiring more prestige all the time. am i being clear?

These are all important things, but again, they take time to take root. For example, farmers markets are enjoying a resurgence now, and will only get more important as time goes on, but it's taken quite a while for people to realize their importance.

Do people have issues with sharing living spaces with friends? Maybe it's because my living situation has always been somewhat fluid, but I've never seen the shocked reaction that you describe.

> i am not talking about some abstract leftist dream of improving society - i am talking about a here and now effort to make our own personal lives better through cooperating with and intertwining the essential features of our lives with the people around us.

Some ideas are abstract and there is just no getting around that. Whether or not they end up being mere dreams depends on whether or not you're willing to do the work to ensure that they don't remain dreams. For me, I spend most of my work days on abstract issues (privacy) that some number of us believe improve our society. As for my current project -- I'm convinced that we'll kill Real ID, and if we do, it will have been because of a large group effort.

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:: Is Nebraska an evil place?

this is an openly absurd and ignorant statement, but my prejudice is that any place without a coast line or a significant homosexual population is rife with illiteracy. by which i mean a sort of cultural or philosophical illiteracy -

I was completely joking with you -- I never thought you'd take it seriously.