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We've had some discussion in another thread about this. I was just reading Steven's talk "The Money Questions." Here's a quote from that talk:
Living from the drive for security expresses itself as what it is -- insecurity and lack. Living from the passion of relatedness expresses itself as what it is -- love and security, including financial. The pathways to financial prosperity are present in each of our lives already, as quantum potential, but like Kabir's thirsty fish, we do not recognize it.
I'm accustomed to, as Steven puts it, living from the drive for security.
Steven later said: "Unleash the passion of purpose in your self regardless of how it fits in your current life."
I realized that I'm in still in some process of metamorphosis, or should I say transmogrification. Unformed. What the heck is my passion of purpose? I don't know.
I was really getting neurotic about my uncertainty. I thought I needed to have a direction, some special dispensation from God. I talked to a couple of friends about this and they said, in so many words, chill out. What you resist, persists. That was an "aha" moment for me. So I'm chilling out.
After that little "aha," I realized that I have this desire to be important or to do something important. Methinks that desire could get in the way...
Living from the drive for security expresses itself as what it is -- insecurity and lack. Living from the passion of relatedness expresses itself as what it is -- love and security, including financial. The pathways to financial prosperity are present in each of our lives already, as quantum potential, but like Kabir's thirsty fish, we do not recognize it.
I'm accustomed to, as Steven puts it, living from the drive for security.
Steven later said: "Unleash the passion of purpose in your self regardless of how it fits in your current life."
I realized that I'm in still in some process of metamorphosis, or should I say transmogrification. Unformed. What the heck is my passion of purpose? I don't know.
I was really getting neurotic about my uncertainty. I thought I needed to have a direction, some special dispensation from God. I talked to a couple of friends about this and they said, in so many words, chill out. What you resist, persists. That was an "aha" moment for me. So I'm chilling out.
After that little "aha," I realized that I have this desire to be important or to do something important. Methinks that desire could get in the way...
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Re: Work and Money
Fri, March 28, 2008 - 4:51 PM
you are already important
and always will be
if you think something will get in the way
then it will
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 5:32 AMAs far as I know, I'm a zit on the face of the universe. -
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 11:59 AM
you are also a limitless creator
so at any time you feel like it
you can change that knowledge
and replace it with another
that would better serve you
also, the saying "attitude is altitude" comes to mind
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 1:52 PMI just reread my last post and it seemed, well, rude. My apologies. -
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 2:49 PM
judgment sticks labels on people
forgiveness peels them off
your "i am" statement judged yourself
forgive yourself
it's like looking past it to a greater truth
to your innocent vision
which is 20/20
: )
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 7:01 PMI don't know what my passion of purpose it either. It sounds so, I dont know... It does not sound like passion of purpose would be selling clothes at marketplaces, but if I don't care about passion of purpose, selling clothes on marketplaces is an excellent idea.
I think Steven writes something about jumping of a cliff in the same chapter? Atleast jumping, or riding a wild horse??
I don't think you have to know what your passion of purpose is, as in knowing your calling, maby it is more a description of an uncompromised energy.
I don't think it is good to take what he writes so seriously so that finding your purpose becomes a burden to you. Is it really important to you to be important or do something important or is it just because of descriptions like the one above? -
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 7:08 PMvery well put, ylle. cuz even when we think we know, we can never be sure about the next moment anyway. so you just go ahead and do what you do.
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 8:08 PMRight. I'll just do what I do. Not a whole lot of chance of doing otherwise.
Right now, my cash flow is negative. I may have to move... I've considered sharing resources, I even looked at a coop last weekend. It wasn't feasible. -
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Re: Work and Money
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 9:38 AMtrue enough. tho in the meantime, karin, i don't know what the point is of beating yourself up about it all.
i mean, sometimes life is experienced as shitty. blaming yourself for it just adds another layer, which seems optional, doesn't it?
so if you feel bad, by all means, don't run away from it. but there's a fine line, where you just look it in the face, without feeding it OR running away. that's the apex of the teeter-totter in a way....the next moment things can shift.
there's a little song i heard recently, that puts things into perspective for me. it goes:
every time
i look up
i see the sky.
every time.
and similarly
every time
i stand up
i'm on the earth.
every time.
there's is beauty and support all around, air to be breathed, apples to be picked.....while we're busy fretting over the future. not to be pollyanna, but watch what you focus on. just notice.
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Re: Work and Money
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 12:50 PMsulevay >> true enough. tho in the meantime, karin, i don't know what the point is of beating yourself up about it all.
i mean, sometimes life is experienced as shitty. blaming yourself for it just adds another layer, which seems optional, doesn't it? <<
Just this one time, I agree with you sulevay. :-) -
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Re: Work and Money
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 4:45 PMHmmm... I wasn't aware that I was beating myself up. However, I'm quite good at that, so maybe that's what came out sideways.
Today I focused on reading a book, writing, eating chocolate, taking a walk, making and enjoying dinner with my son. We're going to take a walk together this evening.
There's hope for me! -
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Re: Work and Money
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 5:57 PMsounds like a nice day.
by "beating up" i just mean you seem awfully hard on yourself at times. of course, it mostly matters how it sounds to you! -
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Re: Work and Money
Fri, June 6, 2008 - 2:35 PMHi Karin nice to meet you.
I too have read the article on work and money.
Have been 'thinking' what my purpose could be for a long time now, and have not discovered an answer.
I currently work as a postman (mailman), to pay the bills.
I considered all sorts of occupations, and often found that yes there is a purpose to that occupation, it is necessary for society, but no I wouldn't fancy doing it myself.
A lot of it seems to be out of our control, maybe you have a passion for soccer but you are not physically up to playing it yourself.
Or maybe its the other way round - you might see your physical limitation and then focus on finding something mentally stimulating to do?
Seems to go round in circles, but my purpose for this post is to say: No, I dont think we have a set purpose, I think we create purposes based on things we cannot change, and these purposes change once we tire of them.
Now I'm just confusing myself, I'll go.... -
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Re: Work and Money
Fri, June 6, 2008 - 9:01 PMI had to chuckle about your ending, because I end up confusing myself and then I have to shut up, too.
Somewhere along the line I decided that I *had* to do something creative. I'd suppressed all that young, exuberant artistic drive in favor of a government job, and finally, after twenty three years, had the courage to leave, and it was time for creativity and meaning, oh, yes, serious meaning. Oooh, I'd be great, and ooooh, I'd be successful, and ooooh, life would be good, so good. I was going to create some huge masterpiece kind of thing (don't ask me what) which would blow everybody away, after having worked for the sucky government for so many years, I'd finally listen to my creative self. Over a five year period, I struggled to spit out a few words on paper here and there and got depressed and hated myself.
Now I'm taking two classes which require me to do creative work, drawing and a fiction writing workshop. I try not to think about what I'm writing or drawing, just be a three year old scribbling incomprehensible stuff, who cares what it looks like.
Purpose? I have no clue.
It's nice to meet you, too, Ben.
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Re: Work and Money
Fri, June 6, 2008 - 10:10 PMThe extent to which I gave up looking for meaning or purpose is the extent to which I became less dissatisfied with not having them. -
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Re: Work and Money
Sat, June 7, 2008 - 1:34 AMKarin,
I lol'd at this line:
"I was going to create some huge masterpiece kind of thing (don't ask me what) "
as I thought exactly the same not so long ago! I had so much anger and energy that I was going to put to good use but finding the form for this energy is not so easy.
Saddha,
I understand your message, but I do wonder if we did not look for meaning or purpose then would we have come this far. Would we be able to write to each other over the internet? If everybody was contented with what is / was, nothing needed changing. Or maybe you are saying we don't need to try to find purpose, it will find us? -
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Re: Work and Money
Sat, June 7, 2008 - 9:16 AMinteresting....for me, having thrown out all illusions about meaning and purpose (so i thought), life seems a lot less ....energetic.
OTOH, you can't "manufacture" meaning and purpose. all i can say is the old ones no longer fit....for now, i just do what's in front of me to do.
luckily, *other people* provide all kinds of motivation in the creativity department.
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Re: Work and Money
Sat, June 7, 2008 - 4:28 PM"The extent to which I gave up looking for meaning or purpose is the extent to which I became less dissatisfied with not having them. "
That is true for me too. I don´t think meaning and purpose has much to do with happiness or true satisfaction. It is just a projection from a sense of lack, it is for me at least.
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Re: Work and Money
Sat, June 7, 2008 - 10:49 AMIs there a link online for this talk? -
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Re: Work and Money
Sat, June 7, 2008 - 6:40 PMwhich talk, lori?
if you mean the latest SH dialogs, go to:
www.doingnothing.com/events.php
or
farhorizons.org/programs/h...on2008.html
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Re: Work and Money
Sat, June 7, 2008 - 9:14 PMThe talk karin referenced at the beginning of the thread: the money question. -
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Re: Work and Money
Sat, June 7, 2008 - 10:30 PMoh, sorry, i totally missed that when i went back to find the reference!
here ya go:
www.doingnothing.com/talks_15.php -
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, June 8, 2008 - 11:01 AMthank you, lori....cuz - this is so funny, so typical! - it sortof filtered in after all that to RE-READ the article in question! LOL....steven often sez, don't read the book over and over, but in this case, it was really good to be led to read it again, since i hadn;t when the original post came in.
and there it is:
~~~RELATEDNESS!~~~
so i passed that article on to those in my community who are ALL dancing with this question right now!
thanks, lori!
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Re: Work and Money
Sat, June 7, 2008 - 3:39 PMThere seems to be a deep-rooted misconception that making money and living a fulfilling life are somehow connected. They're not. If by some miracle you can make money while fulfilling your dreams - consider yourself exceedingly lucky.
Figure out what you have to do to make as much money as you can utilizing the least amount of your energy and time. Then fill in the blanks. -
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, June 8, 2008 - 4:02 AMsulevay:
"OTOH, you can't "manufacture" meaning and purpose. all i can say is the old ones no longer fit...."
loved that comment, it's so true, so many rules, ideas, concepts i had created when in the 'me' world have now been reassesed from the new perspective and just do not fit anymore.......
charles:
I agree - money and a fulfilling life don't seem to be linked. I think unless you are very lucky you have to give up part of your time in order to earn the money you need to live and have the spare time for fulfilment. The way you earn this money isn't likely to be fulfilling, although it usually seems to contribute to the wider society to some extent. -
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, June 8, 2008 - 10:58 AMI worked with a therapist who talked about examining core beliefs, those fundamental assumptions under which we operate.
It seems that one of my core beliefs is that money and fulfillment are linked, so I can't be happy until I've got some big bucks. Then there's the fact that I have to do something to make a living (I could call it a core belief, but seriously challenging that would mean indigence or dependence on welfare).
Another one of my assumptions (which could also be reflected in these last few posts) is that whatever I do for money is not something that I would normally choose to do. Or perhaps I would choose to do it, but only if I could make boatloads of money in the process. Either way, I'm not happy with what I've got.
So what this reveals is my core belief that there's something else out there that's going to make me happy, something different than what is. Thus, I'll never be content.
So I have to ask myself, in a classic display of duality: Can I be satisfied with being here, in this chair, in front of this computer, or whatever it is I am doing at a given moment? Of course, the answer is yes. But then, I always have the option of being miserable, which I exercise regularly. :) -
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, June 8, 2008 - 11:17 AMoh lord, karin, i grew up in the late 60s, early 70s and took a major imprint that "money was the root of all evil" and rich people were soulless scum and all kinds of hippie philosophy. :-)
that core belief literally led the way for decades.....not that i'm complaining, cuz i'm fairly sure if i'd stayed in ohio i would be so plugged into the machine that i'd be utterly unrecognizable......
in any case, it all rolls around to now, which is slowly, inexorably emerging as community living, pooling resources, and building a different "consensus" about a life worth living.
aren't we, after all, always right where we need to be as far as discovering "what's next"?
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, June 8, 2008 - 7:24 PMI felt the same way in the 60s and early 70s but I sold out pretty early.
Interesting that you should mention community living. It's something that's been on my mind for some time. It feels like the time to take some action, e.g. work on the beginnings of an intentional community.
I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. -
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 11:42 PM>I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. <
sorry i skipped right over this.
well, "community" for me covers several different, if overlapping, territories. first and strangest, i live with a man who is married to another woman...tho she lives elsewhere with their daughter, and has her own beloved. my 19-yr-old currently lives with us. but we all end up staying at each other's places when necessary or desired for visits or travel or errands, and spend holidays together and such. (this after years of stubborn conflict, which we all seem to have collectively gotten tired of. cooperation makes more sense!)
we live in a rural community which is one of those places where everyone knows everyone else. so i'm plugged in there as the person to go to for graphics or web stuff, especially in trade or for community events. i've gotten everything from free massages to windows installed in my cabin for doing that. and i do free stuff for events that improve the general quality of life; right now i'm setting up an online interactive group for ride-sharing and errand running, sort of reduce the collective carbon footprint, after several people here each had the idea simultaneously. it's time.
i also belong to several scattered communities closer to the city whose raison d’être range from collaborative art projects to social happenings for like-minded, if far-flung, friends. these don't have much impact in the day-to-day, but when we come together magic tends to happen. it's a lot of creative juice keeping those connections alive...or vice-versa!
ultimately, i figure simple survival is gonna come down to pooling resources and finding new ways to define "family" that go way beyond even my current situation. i see pockets of this movement already, so i think that wave is coming in. -
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Re: Work and Money
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 7:27 PMYour last paragraph really hits home for me. I've been thinking so much about the way I live, the way we all live, how things have to change. And yet I feel entrenched in this life of relative isolation and resultant inefficiency, uncertain about how to go about making a change. I have thought about starting a coop but something in me hesitates... -
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Re: Work and Money
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 11:04 PMlike i said, i think this movement is occurring with increasing frequency to anyone who wants to notice.
i have friends who say they're keen to "find their community" but the funny thing about that is, the desire to "make it happen" always feels to me like pushing it away. maybe i'm more taoist than i like to think (or maybe taoism is an excuse to not work it too hard) but it seems to me community *happens* - you can't really set out to nail it down somewhere.
so i'm sortof torn between the recognition it needs to be different and a general sense that part of that difference is a fluidity that can't be codified. that's one reason i consider myself part of several rather amorphous groupings; i'm not sure what species i am yet.
and despite the sometimes dire outlook of surfing between waves, i mostly have a sense that if you give what you got, the people who appreciate what you got will gather 'round. maybe not as roommates or next door, but in that way that defies space and time. the connections come first - cultivate that, and the details will sort themselves out.
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Re: Work and Money
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 11:19 AM"The pathways to financial prosperity are present in each of our lives already, as quantum potential, but like Kabir's thirsty fish, we do not recognize it."
I'm a thirsty fish. -
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 2:23 PMMe, too.
I've had ideas for businesses, but there was always some hesitation and generally a lot of fear. I seem to have made a transition from the 9-5 job that I felt was necessary for survival to working piecemeal - a little housecleaning here, some elder caregiving there, some house painting, etc. I kind of like this idea, and the possibility that my work can change from one thing to the next. I'm writing, too.
One thing I have noticed - people are responding to me positively, and I'm getting referrals. My friends told me, if you are honest and do a good job, you'll end up getting more and more referrals. It feels good to see this dynamic, as opposed to waiting for a pat on the back or raise from the boss.
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Re: Work and Money
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 2:26 PMWow, that's really encouraging Karin.
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Re: Work and Money
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 5:27 PMMaybe a tycoon is beginning to evolve ;-)
Sounds simply great. -
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Re: Work and Money
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 8:18 PMYes, tycoon! This month I'm gonna make rent... I'd say that's a clear sign.
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