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What does "Do What Thou Wilt" really mean to us?

topic posted Sat, June 24, 2006 - 7:38 PM by  Mr. M
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It refers not to the outer emotional & intellectual self but to the sacred inner core of personal divinity. In theory, if everyone did his or her own true will there would be no clashing. Everyone is a star and each star moves in an appointed path without interference.

That may or may not be true. Don't stars run into each other & disintegrate sometimes? And what of those future victims of genocide? Are they not stars? Or just not bright enough stars? I've seen the future & it is dark. No matter how bright the morning star!
posted by:
Mr. M
California
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  • Um, well, I think Do What Thou Wilt (to me, of course) means exactly what it says. There is no deep esoteric meaning (for me), though many can apply. But, given the statement, it also implies Think What Thou Wilt, so it means whatever you want it to mean I guess.

    A fuller version of the phrase (though still not the whole thing) is Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole of the Law. To me this implies that there is really no law other than what happens. No rules, no set in stone goals, (to quote Homer Simpson) "just a bunch of stuff that happens".

    Now, that said, there seem to be varying degrees of CONSCIOUSLY willing things into action.
    • Unsu...
       
      Like " nothing is true, all is permmitted"
      • I like "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" better, because I'm not quite sure that nothing is true and all is permitted. To me do what thou wilt inherently implies the same about everybody else, so there are complex layers of will going on in the world that cause the various complexities of the world. Do what thou wilt, doesn't mean to me that everything is permitted, only that in any given circumstance you have the ability to do what thou wilt (but seemingly within the limits of the given circumstance. Now, what the limits are in any given circumstance are quite another thing. I think depending on how conscious and creative we are, the limitations are very flexible, but I am not yet convinced that they are flexible to the point where all is permitted, and I'm not convinced either yet that nothing is true.

        It is a good line to ponder though...
        • Who said "release the fiend"?

          My first post on this thread the first part was something I read in a book & the second was me in a drunken KORN obssessed mania. After Kevins first response I felt like it was a stupid question to ask really. lol I like your second response too though.

          I like to think of it as exactly what is says actually. I do wtf I want. It's not an excuse for doing bad things. But then not everyone sees the same things as being bad. I think there is definite general consensus on certain things but even then we all rationalize ourselves to think we are dignified individuals. That could be considered self righteous or maybe it's just a fact & the way it is. That we really are righteous & dignified. It's funny (or sad) how alot of people would never think of themselves as lowly pieces of shite. When I look in a mirror I see alot of darkness & evil but I like to think there is more light & love in me that is more than all that. It's all in there. The whole yen yang balance. I think when people think of themselves as mostly all good they are perverted and same goes for those that tip the scale to the bad. We are human. Do what thou wilt to me means being free to explore this humanity as much as we can in the short time we have here to dance. Let's walk down this path & see where it takes us.
          • Unsu...
             
            All good points to me.. thanks kevin , Marvin , and bowdean.

            "A fuller version of the phrase (though still not the whole thing) is Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole of the Law. To me this implies that there is really no law other than what happens. No rules, no set in stone goals, (to quote Homer Simpson) "just a bunch of stuff that happens".
            " from Kevin Is What I feel, Kinda like you must have this law "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole of the Law", Which is the correct quote, In order to free you mind to ultimate possibility. Without imagining doing what ever you will... Maybe you can never reach your full potential...like kevin said, a good conscious will put the brakes on it moving into the extreme hedonistic everything is permitted regardless kinda attitude or belief.

            Do you guys remember the book, "the true history of america" or something like that?
            and How it portrayed christopher columbus as a "bad guy"

            Here below is some final proof of that (just hot off the press BTW.)... But it also represents the other side of "do what thou wilt".
            the one that says that everything is permitted, sort of thing. That seem to be where christopher columbes mind was at. this story below is kind of disgusting. but I got it here. www.guardian.co.uk/internat...8,00.html

            Christopher Columbus, the man credited with discovering the Americas, was a greedy and vindictive tyrant who saved some of his most violent punishments for his own followers, according to a document uncovered by Spanish historians.

            As governor and viceroy of the Indies, Columbus imposed iron discipline on the first Spanish colony in the Americas, in what is now the Caribbean country of Dominican Republic. Punishments included cutting off people's ears and noses, parading women naked through the streets and selling them into slavery.

            "Columbus' government was characterised by a form of tyranny," Consuelo Varela, a Spanish historian who has seen the document, told journalists.

            One man caught stealing corn had his nose and ears cut off, was placed in shackles and was then auctioned off as a slave. A woman who dared to suggest that Columbus was of lowly birth was punished by his brother Bartolomé, who had also travelled to the Caribbean. She was stripped naked and paraded around the colony on the back of a mule.

            "Bartolomé ordered that her tongue be cut out," said Ms Varela. "Christopher congratulated him for defending the family."

            The evidence has been found in a previously lost report drawn up at the time for the Spanish monarchs as they became worried by growing rumours of Columbus' barbarity and avarice. The document was written by a member of an order of religious knights, the Order of Calatrava, who had been asked to investigate the allegations against Columbus by Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand, who ruled Spain together at the time.

            The report, by Francisco de Bobadilla, lay undiscovered in a state archive in the Spanish city of Valladolid until last year. Bobadilla had already been named governor of the Indies, replacing Columbus, at the time of the report.

            The 48-page document gathers evidence from Columbus' enemies and supporters of his seven-year reign. Ms Varela, one of the two Spanish historians to have studied the document, described life in the colony as "horrifying and hard".

            Bobadilla collected the testimonies of 23 people who had seen or heard about the treatment meted out by Columbus and his brothers. "Even those who loved him had to admit the atrocities that had taken place," Ms Varela said.

            Columbus and his brothers were forced to travel back to Spain. Columbus was in chains but, although he never recovered his titles, he was set free and allowed to sail back to the Caribbean.

            "Columbus and his brothers come across in the text as tyrants," Ms Varela said. "Now one can understand why he was sacked and we can see that there were good reasons for doing so.

            "The monarchs wanted someone who did not give them problems. Columbus did not solve problems, he created them."
            • Unsu...
               
              I can now fully believe that our native american brothers and sisters were treated in the same manner as his followers.....really sad...

              but I don't belive that the spanish government just found this document last year.... please....

              who knows?

        • The Law of Thelema...

          "Love is the law, love under will."

          "There is no law beyond Do walt thou wilt."

          "This means that each of us stars is to move on our true orbit, as marked out by the nature of our position, the law of our growth, the impulse of our past experiences. All events are equally lawful - and every one necessary, in the long run - for all of us, in theory; but in practice, only one act is lawful for each one of us at any given moment. Therefore Duty consists in determining to experience the right event from the one moment of consciousness to another. "

          - The Book of the Law
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: What does "Do What Thou Wilt" really mean to us?

            Sun, December 31, 2006 - 7:54 AM
            " 'Do what thou wilt' is to bid Stars to shine, Vines to bear grapes, Water to seek its level; man is the only being in Nature that has striven to set himself at odds with himself..." -Aleister Crowley, Book 4, Part III, Appendix III.

            Crowley's words imply that our true will is what we would be doing if we were not self-conscious beings, in whom reflexive awareness and conditioning have set up various checks and inhibitions on our behaviour. The fact that we have such checks and inhibitions is part of our evolution as social animals, however, and if we didn't have them, or the capacity for them, we wouldn't be the creatures that we are. (Not that we would be necessarily any the worse without them...it's just that our behaviour would be more like that of other mammals, and arguably we wouldn't have language and culture, which ultimately are the product of reflexive awareness). The best we can do is become conscious of them, and try to reach a level of consciousness at which we can decide whether we wish to conform to them or not. Only then would we become fully moral beings.
          • Thank-you, Lunaeus.
            And let's never forget what a willful, joyous fraud -- a genuine fraud, pardon...yet embrace.. the contradiction -- Mr Crowley (rhymes with 'holy') who wrote the Law, was.
            Fraudulence is, after all, what distinguishes us from the animals.
            That, and self-deception.
  • In the most simple terms, I believe we must know our true will and then act on it. You can not do you be your will unless you have achieved some level of gnosis. The ability to distinguish between the ravings of the ego and social constructs of behavior that are force fed to us on a daily basis, from our true will , is a necessary starting point to "doing" or Being (in a more taoist sense) our will.
    • 93
      Ah, good, there is already a thread here about what I just posted (in another way). I myself don't think the ego is so bad. I lean towards Carl Jung in calling it the self and the SELF. One can bring their ego, their body with them into enlightenment, I believe.

      I am pondering lately that it does mean exactly that, Do whatever you will. I mean whatever we do is our will right? And what makes it true or false, ill or good? What if ill will is appropriate in a certain circumstance? i mean if true will is something that lasts, well everything is temporal, so perhaps there is no true will except NOTHING?

      I think crowley was just as confused on this as we are. After awhile all he persued was sex magick anyway.

      I think its interesting that there are 14 letters in the phrase "Do what thou wilt" and if we include the spaces, 17 letters. Of course 14 is Temperance, the Art trump, and 17 is the Star.

      279,
      Fr Sabaechit
      Sunwolf
      • Part of the Great Work is to discover your true Will. As you reveal the true Will of your Soul to yourself and unfold your life accordingly, you are doing what thou wilt.

        That happens through intentionally training the ego to do your Soul work. As Sunwolf says, the ego is not bad. It is essential because it is what helps the Soul function in a human body on the physical plane. It keeps us from getting run over by cars and such because it cares about its survival. The Soul knows it is eternal, so it's not so concerned with such matters.

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