Gay & Ancient Societies

topic posted Wed, May 21, 2008 - 2:13 AM by  cup
Is the gay discrimination mainly a Judeo-Christian thing?

Does anyone know how the ancient Celts of Saxons or vikings treated homosexual members of society?

I'm your standard straight male that's ignorant of this topic.

Quite frankly, the main reason I'm not Christian (one of them) is their obsession with calling homosexuality (etc) a perversion. i always felt they dedicated too much time to 'hate'...which was contrary to the supposed 'love' of Jesus.

Hoping for an open and happy discussion.
posted by:
cup
offline cup
Australia
  • SHAMANIC ANDROGYNY

    Wed, May 21, 2008 - 3:23 AM
    Here, this is a great article that resonates with me, I put it here for your own discernment.

    SHAMANIC ANDROGYNY

    Now is the time for the awakening of the Gatekeepers. Many are gathered at this portal, which exists between the World of Form and the Multiverse. There was a time when this one gate was two. It was "fragmented" into an "upper world" and a "lower world." As of now, that conceptual model has been superceded.

    Indeed, the assignment of "upper" and "lower" to the unseen worlds is just another manifestation of judgment---applied to a passageway of consciousness which has no reason to be judged. It is there, and it is time that we knew about it.

    The term "Berdache" is a French European application of an ancient tradition which spans many reality contexts. It is a GIFT, an ability that has become an entire state of consciousness. In a nutshell, these dear people have the capacity---usually from birth--- to feel into both sides of the human polarity spectrum. Therefore, if you are a Berdache male, you would have all the physical/mental faculties and predispositions that accompany that gender assignment plus you would be able to access all of the emotions, thought patterns, and subconscious imagery that a female has as well. The same is true (in reverse) of Berdache females.

    The "Berdache" are also known as llahamana, adonisgi, gatekeepers, nadle, mexago, winkte, yirka- la ul, and i-wa-wisp. They are those individuals who, because of their essential energetic androgyny, have the power to enter the Otherworld. This is NOT a sexual orientation. It is spiritual. Some Berdache are gay, but that is more a choice of action, a preference, than it is a mandate for the usage of this gift.

    The indigenous thought about the Other World, the realm of the Gods, is that it is a realm of ONENESS. The Gods or spirits are both masculine and feminine in one. Though a certain spirit might manifest before a human in either a masculine or feminine character, it is---at it's core---BOTH genders.

    The Berdache are special in the fact that they carry this androgynous energy---the energy of the Gods. It is what makes them able to exist both in physical form and also "journey" into the other realms as well. Hermes Trismegastrus and the Egyptian God THOTH were both examples of this propensity for androgyny. In fact, the term "hermaphrodite" (Hermes+ Aphrodite) refers to the marriage of the archetypal male and female (these two were the children of Zeus). This important predisposition is seen clearly in the African culture. In childbirth, the spirit of the fetus is exhorted through the voice of the mother. It is at this time that the "energy" of it's soul is examined by the village Shaman. Certain souls who possess this androgyny are seen to be "blessed from birth." They are called "the holy ones." It is in this African tradition that the name of "Gatekeeper" is given to the child. Many preparations are made to welcome it into the community, including the giving of an appropriate name to "harmonize" with it's sacred purpose.

    The Berdache are the highest shamans, healers, teachers, diviners, dreamers, prophets, and guardians of the Gateway. To them, sexuality is nothing more than an extension of their spiritual being. If their energy was not used for this purpose, there would develop a blockage or build-up that would seek expression. Quite often, that expression would end up being sexual, since touching another human always causes this energy to flow.

    The priestesses in the Temples of the Goddess were often Berdache. Though they often lived "normal" lives---having husbands and families---they would choose, at key times to go and live at the Temple, devoting many hours,
    days, weeks to worship of the Goddess.

    In this "Temple-system" of worship, people from the city would come and pay homage to the particular face or version of the Goddess for which the Temple was built. Most noted were the Temples for Diana, Artemis, Isis, and Hecate---though there were/are many more faces of the ONE Goddess. The "homage" would often consist of money or physical goods---which would be utilized for the upkeep of the Temple as well as the support of the Priestesses.

    Temple worship was often sexual in nature. Many times, children were born of the connections made there. These children were raised in the Temple and were called "Children of the Goddess." Those less sympathetic with this religious system, who wrote about these "rites," would refer to these Priestesses as "Temple Prostitutes." They looked upon them with scorn, and later sought to overthrow the whole system.

    Many of these Priestesses were Berdache. In the evening time, after sacrifices were through, they would often express their love and commitment sexually with each other. These interactions were not necessarily "gay." They were not necessarily
    ANYTHING, other than an "in-the-moment" expression of spiritual truth.

    Also in the Native American and African traditions, there were certain forms of Berdache expression which were called WARRIOR-SHAMANS or SHAMAN-CHIEFS. They could commune with the other world but could not journey there---unless their souls left their bodies---an activity which is called "soul traveling." These Shaman types, although heterosexual in orientation, would often take on the skirt of a woman during their period of initiation (and often afterwards, as a sign of their "office.") They wished to honor their feminine "side" even though they were heterosexual in practice.

    In many cultures, the warriors of the tribe would have a Berdache attending to them. This was considered a badge of honor, and a necessary element if they were to be successful in battle. Often this "attending" would involve sexual joining. In Celtic cultures, this was particularly true. One Roman writer shook his head, when writing of these practices. He said: "....the Celtic women are not BAD LOOKING. One would wonder why their men, so often, will resort to fondling each other!"

    In truth, to explore connection with a Berdache is to invoke power into one's being. It is a way of altering ones polarity---aligning it more with ONENESS---and opening up psychic and mystical powers within the soul. In these religious and ethnic traditions, this willingness to "explore" was/is not considered a perversion at all. Rather, it is a reaching into the realms of the unknown in order that the soul might grow.

    The Berdache, as has been shared, typically become the medicine men, the dreamers, the healers, and the prophets. One didn't have to be Berdache to follow these callings, but typically they were. Today, as we are approaching the greatest AWAKENING OF SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE and ACCESSIBILITY that the world has ever known, the Gatekeepers are---once again---being called into service.

    All over the world they are "awakening" and becoming aware of their giftedness. It is said, within the Fundamentalist Judeo-Christian traditions, that the sign of the "end-times" is when homosexuality proliferates. This situation, which existed in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, was considered a blasphemy to the Male Godhead. This judgment was the cause of the destruction of those famous cities, as well as the leveling of many Temples of the Goddess.

    The predictions of destruction and catastrophe that have been attached to this coming time of Transformation are expressions of POLARIZED MALE fear about acceptance and outward acknowledgement of the internal feminine side. The Multiverse will be full of alternative realities where mountains have to crumble and valleys have to crack open as the Archetypal Male resists the mandate to deal with His "significant otherness."

    The universe of Oneness will unite in peace and understanding. Those who are Gatekeepers will arise, each in his or her appointed time, to show the way for integrating these magical powers into the normal flow of human experience. Then, and only then, will the God and Goddess stand together, side- by-side, and rule the way we've always wished they would.

    www.reconnections.net/androgyny2.htm

    © 1995, Reconnections, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
    • Re: SHAMANIC ANDROGYNY

      Wed, May 21, 2008 - 10:37 AM
      this is an interesting discussion. however, i don't really see the connection between homosexuality and androgyny. although i am a queer man, my sex is not at all ambiguous.
      in ancient societies, i don't believe there was a stigma attached to homosexuality. cuhulain had his friend ferdaid, for example. although there is no real basis to believe they were lovers, there is also no reason to believe they were not. within the celtic warrior societies, the men slept together. it would seem foolish to believe that they did not enjoy each other. i believe that one of the reasons that there is no discussion of homosexuality among the ancient celts is that there was nothing strange or unnatural about it and, therefore, no reason to discuss it as a phenomenon.
      • Re: Gay and ancient societies

        Thu, May 22, 2008 - 9:42 AM
        Some thoughts:
        There is homosexual behaviour on the one hand, which, it seems to me, is a universal, normal, and commonplace constant of human behaviour; and on the other hand there is the human tendency to create special categories of human being, either to be scapegoated or regarded as sacred in some way. These categories are not universal, but socially determined, or artificial. The word 'homosexual' has only existed in the English language since the 1890s...in other words, there were no 'homosexuals' before that date: no one who was identified in those terms. The word was invented by sexual theorists and pathologists to account for certain aspects of human behaviour in the society of the time. In doing so, they thought they were being scientific and 'objective'. But they themselves had socially and psychologically determined, ideological reasons for regarding such sexual behaviour as abnormal.

        To express desire, as a human male, for another human male has always been to run the risk of being regarded as effeminate, and hence as degrading maleness to the inferior status that, in the past, societies have accorded to women. It is interesting to note that, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word BAD may come from an Old English word meaning 'hermaphrodite' or 'womanish man'. It's embedded that deeply in our language.

        The extent to which the people put into such artificial categories are victimised as scapegoats depends very much, it seems to me, on the general level of chronic anxiety prevailing in a society. Where such chronic anxiety is high, there is a tendency to seek to discharge it through scapegoating and victimisation. I think this was probably just as true of ancient societies as it is of ours. I'm subject to correction on this point, of course, but I heard somewhere about the existence of pretty horrendous penalties in ancient pagan Teutonic law, for men caught in the act.
        • Re: Gay and ancient societies

          Fri, May 23, 2008 - 3:50 AM
          Slightly off topic:

          Okay, a weird things guys....... we had 99 members, and after I posted this topic, within a day we have 93 members.

          The membership simply doesn't fluctuate that much.

          *sigh*

          Whatever, I expected a more mature outlook on these topics....but so be it.
          • Re: Gay and ancient societies

            Fri, May 23, 2008 - 9:41 AM
            that's pretty weird for sure. do you think that the topic did that? could there be that many homophobic folks out there?
            • Re: Gay and ancient societies

              Fri, May 23, 2008 - 10:23 AM
              I doubt it, but if so then good riddance. Above 90 members is still plenty. What gets me is that with so many members I would expect more activity. Doesn't that indicate a general trollishness?
              • Re: Gay and ancient societies

                Fri, May 23, 2008 - 11:15 PM
                It's funny but I've found just as much homophobes in the pagan arena, as there were in Christian circles.

                In terms of membership and participation - this is just normal on tribes. A lot of people join a lot of tribes, they don't participate on a daily basis.

                Some tribes have thousands of members and less activity than this one! O_O

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