Good card ..bad position??

topic posted Sat, October 10, 2009 - 4:32 PM by  Kathy
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I was wondering what it means when in a good or positive card comes up in a postition where the spread says it's something that I need to be wary of. How do you interpret cards that fall into a negative position though they are "good" cards?
posted by:
Kathy
Montana
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  • Re: Good card ..bad position??

    Sat, October 10, 2009 - 5:28 PM
    Which spread did you use?
    • Re: Good card ..bad position??

      Sat, October 10, 2009 - 10:14 PM
      It's from the book "Illustrated Tarot Spreads" and it's called "The Law of the Spirit" and the 2nd card/position said "The cause of my problem in the realm of the soul". I drew the 4 of Wands. From what I'm reading this is a good/positive card. Why or how do I see this as a "problem"?
      • Re: Good card ..bad position??

        Mon, October 12, 2009 - 1:28 AM
        "It's from the book "Illustrated Tarot Spreads" and it's called "The Law of the Spirit" and the 2nd card/position said "The cause of my problem in the realm of the soul". I drew the 4 of Wands. From what I'm reading this is a good/positive card. Why or how do I see this as a "problem"?"

        Well surely the answer to the question involves more than one card? Also doesn't it matter what the question was?
        Without knowing more it's likely to be just speculation.

        My interpretation of the four of wands as a potentially negative card, however, would be that either you are expecting a lot of congratulations or fan-fare, or that you're sort of resting on your laurels from a recent success. A good example would be passing your exams, congratulating yourself on it and not studying as hard for the next, bigger, exams.
        • Re: Good card ..bad position??

          Mon, October 12, 2009 - 3:46 AM
          I would look at the whole spread and take it as a positive reading, wherever the cards fall. The cards are more accurate than the spread always and this just says that life is good - enjoy!

          Lorraine
          • Re: Good card ..bad position??

            Mon, October 12, 2009 - 7:49 PM
            There is really no such thing as a "good" or a "bad" card. The meaning of any card has to be approached from looking at its own "root meaning" and the meaning of the position in which it is found and how it relates to the other cards in the spread. It is not an either/or choice between good and bad, positive or negative. Each card contains both yin and yang and which is to be emphasized depends on the matrix of the total spread. One of the great mistakes many beginners make is to lay out the cards one at a time and to read each one as it falls. The only way to read effectively (from my experience) is to lay out the whole spread and interpret it according to one's intuitive feel for the pattern of the whole, not each card as an individual event, but as a single note in an entire melody, in which the music can only be understood as a whole pattern of notes, not as one note followed by another note and then another, but as a whole phrase grasped at one time.

            And remember that the music of life is always sublimely beautiful.

            With love under will,

            Bob, Adastra,
            The Wizzard of Jacksonville
            • Re: Good card ..bad position??

              Thu, October 22, 2009 - 10:36 AM
              i like the way you say that, that's a very good way to say that. I do that too, but also read the individual meaning as i go along too taking notes as i go. For the whole reading.......Then go back and read the notes in a few days or when i feel the need. Sometimes the individual card has some special meaning for me or the picture associated with it does. Sometimes, it's the whole reading that has meaning .....later.
              My Breast Cancer was foretold 6 monthes before the diagnosys in a reading with my Unicorn cards.....

              Many Blessings to you, Teresa
              • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                Fri, October 23, 2009 - 9:17 AM
                "There is really no such thing as a "good" or a "bad" card. The meaning of any card has to be approached from looking at its own "root meaning" ".

                This says it all, anything more is intellectualization.
                • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                  Fri, October 23, 2009 - 10:51 AM
                  Hi,

                  The cards themselves are niether good or bad nor do we read the cards in isolation. Don't forget to consider the cards around the one you are reading and how they moderate it. *grin* a card is not bad because it warns you of a possible problem it helps you to be prapared for it and maybe even avoid it.

                  Dandy
                • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                  Tue, October 27, 2009 - 5:11 AM
                  "There is really no such thing as a "good" or a "bad" card. The meaning of any card has to be approached from looking at its own "root meaning" "

                  Whilst I don't think anyone (though perhaps I'm being too idealistic) really thinks that there are 'good' cards and 'bad' cards, when people use the term they really mean to imply how the card might show something that they consider negative.
                  Although entirely subjective, I think each card could be seen to have a 'negative' spin on them and I would imagine that ultimately that's what people mean when they over-simplify and say 'good' and 'bad'.
                  Same thing can be seen in astrology when people ask 'Is this a good aspect?'
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Good card ..bad position??

                    Tue, October 27, 2009 - 10:41 AM
                    Very good point Paul! For every negative, there is a positive & visa versa.

                    But i actually do know people who think of some cards as 'good' or 'bad' ....in and of itself.
                    They don't consider the entire reading or the surrounding cards.

                    Or thier initial reaction / feelings they get from the cards or the reading, which is a big part of it.

                    Blessings, Teresa
                    • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                      Tue, October 27, 2009 - 12:04 PM
                      >>>They don't consider the entire reading or the surrounding cards.<<<

                      One statement that I've heard often from beginners that irritates me immensely is when they point out a particular card in a spread and say, "This card has a lot of energy."

                      What exactly does that mean? I strongly suspect that it means they have no clue what the card means or what the spread is saying and are desperately trying to find something they can say about it because it strikes them as important to the reading. In that case, they really should get better acquainted with their deck. What is this "energy" they speak of? Surely a metaphorical statement suggesting they feel the card is significant in some way. The card itself is simply lying there on the table. It isn't vibrating or soaring around the room. And if they are going to speak of the "energy" of the card, why do they never seem to address the questions that should follow: What kind of energy? Doing what? Affecting the other cards in what way? Moving in what direction? Simply saying the card, "has a lot of energy" tells the querent nothing of value. It's essentially a stall beginners use to buy time in which they are hoping to get a clue to the meaning of the spread. It's weak and shows uncertainty and lack of confidence on the reader's part. They would do much better to let the querent wait a few minutes while they study the cards and search their intuitive wisdom for the interpretation.

                      Okay, that's my beef. If you are one of those who overuse the phrase (and I sincerely hope not), I suggest that you make the effort to stop using such a transparent stall and start learning more about the deck you use and how it works. You'll be a much better reader in the end.

                      Or if anyone uses the phrase in a way that has some meaning other than the one I perceive, more power to you.

                      With love under will,

                      Bob, Adastra,
                      The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                      • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                        Tue, October 27, 2009 - 3:25 PM
                        Adastra

                        "One statement that I've heard often from beginners that irritates me "

                        threading reached it's max. You quoted teresa who addressed me. Was your post directed toward me or teresa?

                        I think when people say "energy" they really mean "the archetype associated with this card" which may sound too wordy for them. Also I find it interesting how we communicate. Should we speak to them with words that make sense to us, or use words that the other person would use?
                        At least with astrology we can see their mercury and know our own, but with tarot we may not have that option. Some are more comfortable communicating in different styles than others. Perhaps when they use words like this it's a presumption of yours that they don't know what they're talking about when perhaps they do, but are trying to articulate that to someone who doesn't share their vocabulary.
                        • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                          Tue, October 27, 2009 - 3:32 PM
                          Well, what is the purpose, Paul? Isn't that what things boil down to? Showing what we know & hoping it is understood, or maybe just showing it to show we know something? Or trying to consolidate a whole bunch of experience and information and intuition into some kind of coherence? Who knows?

                          It really can be a crap shoot.
                          • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                            Tue, October 27, 2009 - 3:43 PM
                            Amiable

                            For me, the purpose is the same as any other interpretor or messenger, to read the message and translate and communicate it into something the other person can understand. For me that's it. I add nothing new just interpret what's there. Perhaps the Gemini in me. We should always follow our sun, perhaps for you it would be different. Who knows? That's just how I see it at least?
                            • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                              Tue, October 27, 2009 - 5:10 PM
                              Amiable

                              when I say perhaps for you it would be different I don't mean you specificallly, rather perhaps for others it is different.
                              • Unsu...
                                 

                                Re: Good card ..bad position??

                                Tue, October 27, 2009 - 7:23 PM
                                kathy,
                                if the spread doesn't offer any light for you , then play three more cards asking the question then setting down one card and asking a question then ask annother question lie the card down after each question. If you get an answer with the first card stop there. If not make sure to ask two more questions. Its one card or three kind of thing. Then the reading is complete no more readings . Plus if you are reading the cards for yourself only do a reading a day .

                                Paul,
                                You must have had some formal training in astrology because most instructors do express the importance in making sure the interpetation is done on a way that the other person can understand. A reading is not worth a shit if the other person does know what is being said. That goes begond being a Gemini but rather having some common sense and a desire to be a fair . Kind of like Goethe said in order to understand your own native language learn another language and astrology and tarot are like languages . We wouldn't talk to a baby as if it were an adult. This doesn't come across as a difference in opinion because we sometimes need clarification.
                                • Unsu...
                                   

                                  Re: Good card ..bad position??

                                  Tue, October 27, 2009 - 7:33 PM
                                  even then once the defintions and questions have been answered what ever doesn't resonate doesn't resonate.
                                  • Unsu...
                                     

                                    Re: Good card ..bad position??

                                    Wed, October 28, 2009 - 6:05 AM
                                    as for the orignal question. I don't know what that means and has never come up . if a reading doesn't make sense then do the three cards to an additonal question or the three question three card.
                                • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                                  Wed, October 28, 2009 - 6:17 AM
                                  k

                                  "You must have had some formal training in astrology because most instructors do express the importance in making sure the interpetation is done on a way that the other person can understand."

                                  I do have some formal training as it happens.
                        • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                          Wed, October 28, 2009 - 6:18 AM
                          >>>They don't consider the entire reading or the surrounding cards.<<<


                          Dear Paul,

                          Since I opened my last post by quoting Teresa, I thought it should be obvious to whose post I was replying. A bit over sensitive lately? And yes, I am sure that people who use that particular phrase, "This card has a lot of energy," do mean something by it, or think they do at least. The point is that "energy" means so many different things to different people, so the use of that word is less than informative. Especially when that is the only thing said about a particular card. It doesn't really convey any useful information. And I notice that that phrase seems to be used a lot by beginners who haven't yet begun to feel comfortable with their deck. As to my speculation that it serves as a stall for a reader who can't think of anything useful to say, well, that is obviously a guess. The point, for me, is that a reader who uses such empty words without giving more detail is not doing the querent any good at all.

                          Is the point of the reading to impress the querent with our profound wisdom or to give them some advice they can use? It's just not a practice I think is at all useful to the querent. It sounds as though it should mean something, but doesn't actually mean anything. Or it can mean so many different things that without some additional information it's useless. And if we provide more information, why use such a vague expression at all?

                          After all, "This card has a lot of energy"--well, good for the card then, but what good does it do for the querent? Does it give them any help? And if helping the people who come to you for answers to their questions isn't the purpose, why do you (the general "you", not a specific "you"), why do you give readings anyway?

                          With love under will,

                          Bob, Adastra,
                          The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                          • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                            Wed, October 28, 2009 - 6:37 AM
                            Adastra

                            "Since I opened my last post by quoting Teresa, I thought it should be obvious to whose post I was replying. A bit over sensitive lately?"

                            Not sensitive, but confused, cos I didn't see Teresa using the term 'energy' anywhere either, so wasn't sure whether I had or not. So i scanned through her post, couldn't see her using it and she had replied to me so wasn't sure whether it was me you were addressing.

                            "The point, for me, is that a reader who uses such empty words without giving more detail is not doing the querent any good at all."

                            Perhaps I misunderstood. Do you mean someone who uses those words, then moves on and says nothing else about that card? Obviously that's no good. But to say "this card has a lot of energy...it represents the quest or desire for greater love in your life, and could come about ..."etc etc might very well do the querent some good.
                            Energy does of course mean different things to different people. In reality energy and matter don't really exist in any different terms they are just used to describe something that we take at face value to be true. Things that vibrate slower become what we've decided to call 'matter' and things that vibrate faster are what we've decided to call energy - but perhaps from a scientific point of view both are a misnomer. My point therefore is that because we all know what we mean by the term, we're quite safe in using it. If you and querant both know what is meant by the term, then I see no reason why you shouldn't use it. Of course you can't just say, this card has lots of energy, now lets move onto another card. But other than that, basically its just semantics.

                            "And if helping the people who come to you for answers to their questions isn't the purpose, why do you (the general "you", not a specific "you"), why do you give readings anyway?"

                            Its interesting, whilst I think (and like) that you really could help someone by offering them a reading, really, I feel, I'm not helping anyone. I'm just passing on a message and making sure that it is understood by the querent to the best of my ability. If that means nothing to the querent and if they do nothing with it, then so be it. I've not failed. It's down to the person to help themselves, so in that sense I really don't feel like I'm helping anyone, I'm just providing them with another tool or more information so that they can help themselves better. It takes away a lot of the 'gloss' from doing tarot, but also is beneficial in removing any "this is what you shoudl do" feelings that I have noticed a lot of tarot readers seem to use. I'm sure you've seen tarot readers who look at the cards and basically tell them what they should do with their life. I don't like that method of thinking. Far better to say "this is what the cards are saying, now you know more about the situation, you'll be better able to make an informed choice". I hope I'm explaining that right.



                            • Unsu...
                               

                              Re: Good card ..bad position??

                              Wed, October 28, 2009 - 8:17 AM
                              i forgot the three card additional questions are for readings where you keep every card in the spread upright in other words the cards are not read upside down whether it comes out that way or not.

                              Looking for the reference for this and might take a while.
                            • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                              Thu, October 29, 2009 - 11:12 PM
                              >>>I didn't see Teresa using the term 'energy' anywhere either<<<

                              No, but the connection was a bit more tenuous. If I remember correctly, Teresa had made some comment expressing frustration with practices common among some readers, especially the inexperienced. Perhaps I misinterpreted her post, but it seemed to me that the context was appropriate for me to mention one of my pet peeves with beginning readers who say things that sound profound, but offer no genuine information. It wasn't aimed at anyone here, I assure you. And the word "energy" has a precise, mathematical meaning in physics that has nothing to do with the way some people use it in reference to Tarot cards.


                              >>>It's down to the person to help themselves, so in that sense I really don't feel like I'm helping anyone,<<<

                              OK, I get your point. I must explain, however, that I never said anything about telling people what to do with their lives. So far as I am concerned, helping the querent means giving them information that will help them make their own decisions about their life and circumstances. Sometimes, a bit of additional perspective on the problems can make all the difference. And If I'm not helping someone handle their problem, I am reading just to show off what I think I know, which accomplishes nothing whatever. In fact, I try to avoid telling something that will not help them, even though sometimes I turns out that I was not understanding the full situation.

                              Once a woman came to me to ask about her parents' health. When I laid out the cards, I felt a bit of a shiver since what I was seeing was that her mother would soon be dying and her father would follow a bit later. Such news is seldom welcome. So, I beat around the bush a little, stalling, and finally suggested that her mother seemed possibly to be near death. "Oh, thank God," the querent replied.

                              This startled me quite a lot. She quickly explained that her aging mother had been seriously ill for a years, in constant pain and the doctors were pessimistic about any chance of recovery. No treatment seemed to be available that would provide a cure or even much relief. And meanwhile, my querent had put her life on hold to care for her mother--without being able to offer her much real assistance. She felt helpless and somewhat depressed at the prospect of seeing her mother suffer without being able to help her. So she really felt that death would be the best result possible to end the suffering her mom endured.

                              I was surprised to find that the reading I had dreaded delivering turned out the be exactly the forecast the querent had been hoping for and that rather than burdening her, I had brought her comfort. She also revealed that since her parents had been so close, she was resigned to the idea that her father would probably pass on soon after her mother. So, instead of bad news, the reading was helpful.

                              On another occasion, I was doing a reading for a coworker at the restaurant where I worked. I laid out the cards and experienced a bit of panic when it seemed to me the cards were recommending that she have an affair. I knew that she was married and felt dismayed at having to deliver such disreputable advice. Finally, I suggested cautiously that there seemed to be a chance she might soon have another romantic interest. She blushed and lowering her eyes, replied, "Well, yes, as of this morning, in fact." The reading snapped into clear focus at once. Rather than giving her advice that had seemed unethical to me, I found myself advising her how to handle an accomplished fact, to be very cautious, to keep this new romance from her husband and not to expect anything lasting. She made it clear that this advice was helpful and very welcome, that it confirmed her own feelings about the matter and that she would follow the advice carefully. So I consider that the reading helped.

                              That's what I mean about being helpful. It does little good to accuse or to scold the querent. If they come to a reader, they are generally looking for advice with whatever problems they are having; if they get advice that they find useful, they have been helped.

                              A rather young women came to me for a reading once, my very first client when I started reading professionally. Her only question was, "Will I be getting married in the next year?" After searching the cards, I reluctantly told her that I saw nothing to indicate a wedding in the near future, though there might be an opportunity that I was simply not seeing. Imagine my surprise when she, too, said, "Oh, thank God!" It turned out that she had been to another reader who had told her that she would be married by this time next year. She didn't feel ready for marriage, she explained, and had been worried that the reading foretold something that was fated to happen whether she wanted it or not. So I told her that the previous reader had acted very unprofessionally if she had given that impression. What she did with her life, I said, was her business; no one could force such a decision on her if she was against it. In fact, the most that any reader or psychic could tell her was that she might have the opportunity to wed soon, if that was her choice. She was quite relieved to hear that her freedom of choice was not impaired and thanked me profusely for the reading. So I figure she got her money's worth. That's what I mean by helping--advising, not commanding.

                              I've never felt called on to do the "you will meet a handsome stranger" bit. That's not advice, it's a cliche suitable only for hack writers who know little or nothing about Tarot readings.

                              By the way, if you are an astrologer, I'm surprised you haven't looked more into the astrological correspondences in Tarot. With a little study, It's easy to tell the querent about when a future expectation will materialize, to at least a span of ten days, one decanate. And the position of a given card within the wheel of the year, will often speak eloquently about the nature of a future event.

                              With love under will,

                              Bob, Adastra,
                              The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                              • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                                Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:59 AM
                                Adastra

                                "Perhaps I misinterpreted her post, but it seemed to me that the context was appropriate for me to mention one of my pet peeves with beginning readers who say things that sound profound, but offer no genuine information. It wasn't aimed at anyone here, I assure you."

                                Ah ok, that makes sense. It just seemed out of the blue so I wasn't sure whether I missed something.

                                You and I have had some similar experiences (though different results perhaps). I was once asked to see whether their mother or father was going to pass away. I didn't turn a card but said that everybody will die eventually and questioned the wisdom of knowing about it in advance. Will it make you happier? She seemed really 'urgent' upon me telling her the answer to this. I said that I wasn't comfortable with it but would turn a few cards and if the answer was there I would tell her, but if it wasn't, it wasn't. I advised her that if she's concerned about their health to encourage them to see a doctor etc. I turned a few cards and it showed the mother was currently ill and would likely die from that illness. The father was not in poor health but seemed to not survive the mother for too many years after her death. I told her this. She told me the mother was sick with a form of cancer. I was really quite upset by this reading as there was really nothing anyone coudl do and I wished I had stuck with my guns and not told her. She later asked about love and unfortunately it came back that there was nothing in the immediate future but that the reason was that she was not getting out and about enough. She then told me she hadn't been out of a weekend in about 8 months and is not attracted to anyone at work. I wondered why she would think there were would be any romance considering she wasn't looking for it. There was a suggestion that the 'universe' was trying to 'lure her out' of her home, letters to social events through the door etc. and she told me she recently had a flyer come through about speed dating, and another a week before about a local pub that was opening to which she was invited. She turned down both.
                                Anyways she told me the reading was really helpful (I told her other stuff too about her past etc) but then the next day the person who referred her to me told me that she was really angry with me, and that I was actually evil and was like satan incarnate. How dare I doom her mother to death and tell her she was unlovable. I was so gutted with this. I couldn't believe it. How could she twist what I had said into that!? I actually gave up reading cards for about a year because of it. I have also never charged for a reading before or since that one time.
                                So my point is that although I do think that the raison d'etre shoudl be to help people, I've since realised you actually can't help anyone. You can only interpret the cards and offer your advice. After that its up to them. I'm 24 now and was only 20/21 at the time and was really disturbed by her reaction but I've since realised that (obviously) she had some other issues going on and I was merely providing her with a suitable hook to cast her projections onto to. Still, ever since I've not charged anyone for readings, though undoubtedly that will change, and I make a point now about absolutely refusing to discuss death. I always thought, if you ask the question, you'd better be prepared for the answer, but actually I've realised that everybody else doesn't think like me.

                                "By the way, if you are an astrologer, I'm surprised you haven't looked more into the astrological correspondences in Tarot. With a little study, It's easy to tell the querent about when a future expectation will materialize, to at least a span of ten days, one decanate. And the position of a given card within the wheel of the year, will often speak eloquently about the nature of a future event."

                                A few months ago, the subject was raised on this tribe about the efficacy of tarot versus astrology. I always felt that, when it comes to timing, astrology is more accurate (due to the accuracy of transits/progressions etc). However in that post you actually advised me about using the cards to relate to the decantes. As I said, I'm pretty much self-taught and never heard this method before. I've since memorised the gist of it but have never had the chance to really use it (mostly because I forget about it during readings). I might make a point of doing it in the future. Unfortunately I use Rider-Waite and I sometimes get confused as to what court card refers to what between thoth and rider waite.
                                • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                                  Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:09 AM
                                  >>>I sometimes get confused as to what court card refers to what between thoth and rider waite. <<<

                                  Fortunately, that is easy to piece together for an experienced astrologer. It's not primarily the court cards, but the small cards of the suits. The suit shows us the elemental correspondence: Wands, = Fire, Cups = Water, Swords = Air and Pentacles = Earth, as I'm sure you know. Then the numbers of the cards gives us the mode of the sign and the decanates within each sign. The deuces, treys and fours = the Cardinal sign in each suit, decanates 1, 2 and 3 in order. The fives, sixes and sevens are assigned to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd decans of the Fixed (or Kerubic) signs of the element. And the remaining cards, eights, nines and tens are matched to the decans of the Mutable Sign.

                                  So if you have the 4 of Cups, that should immediately indicate the 3rd decan of Cancer, which is, in fact, my birth sign and decan. Cups = Water, 4 of Water suit shows the 3rd decan of Cardinal Water, the Crab. Quite simple.

                                  The court cards are more complicated, since they overlap between two signs. Each is associated with a sign, of course, but each indicates the last decan of the previous sign and the first two of the primary sign. So again, Queens indicate the Cardinal signs, Knights (or Princes in Thoth) refer to the Fixed signs and Kings (Thoth Knights) indicate the Mutables. The Queen of Cups, again would show a span from the last decan of Gemini through the first and second decans of Cancer. This means that my birthdate is not shown by the Queen of Cups, since the last decan of Cancer is not included there, but I would fall under the influence of the Knight (Or Prince) of Wands. This is less precise than the small cards, covering a period of thirty days instead of ten, but can still be helpful to a reading if no other clues appear.

                                  The Aces and Pages (Princesses) are a special case. They do not refer directly to the Zodiac, but to the whole sky between the Zodiac and the Pole. Pages cover an entire span of ninety degrees, centered over the Fixed sign of the element. So the Page (Princess) of Wands, covers all of Cancer, Leo and Virgo. Aces cover the same area as the Pages, but less of it. Their influence extends 45 degrees, centered on the Fixed sign of the element. So the Page (or Princess ) of Wands covers all of Leo, the last 7.5 degrees of Cancer and the first 7.5 of Virgo. And I believe that covers the subject in full. The Trumps, of course, would indicate the sign associated with each of the 12 signs or the 7 planets or the 3 elements: Fire, Water and Air.

                                  This system, btw, is not Crowley's; it was established by the Golden Dawn, which is where Crowley learned it, though he did modify a pair of Trumps after being told (by his angel) that Tzaddi and Heh were wrongly assigned. But this is relevant only to his students. So whether we consider the Thoth or some other deck, the system is pretty much the same. And remember that the element of Spirit is represented by Judgment (or the Aeon) in addition to its attribution to Fire, while The World (or Universe) represents the element of Earth as well as the planet Saturn. The Planetary Trumps seem of little use in a reading, except to perhaps to confirm other cards indicating a particular sign. Indeed, it occurs to me that a planetary Trump might influence the reading of a Zodiacal card by thinking of whether the planet indicated is exalted, fallen, ruling or in decline. In fact, the same applies to the planetary ruler of each decanate. This just now occurred to me, so I think I'd better start memorizing these indicators so that I can make use of them in future readings.

                                  And although, I'm no longer reading professionally now, I do readings for friends for free if asked.

                                  I hope the information given above will be helpful. If you have further questions, please let me know and I'll try to clarify.

                                  With love under will,

                                  Bob, Adastra,
                                  The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                                  • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                                    Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:16 AM
                                    The small cards I knew about. I just to get my head around the court cards properly. I struggle to remember which riderwaite court card refers to which Thoth court card.
                                    It's certainly an interesting system which makes sense to me in some intuitive way. I just need to remember to actually use it now!
                                    • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                                      Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:51 PM
                                      >>>I just need to remember to actually use it now!<<<

                                      I would recommend trying to ease into it, a little at a time. You might begin with remembering to look at the small cards of each suit and identifying which sign and decan each one represents. This is very useful in dealing with timing of predictions. I have found that using the small cards in such a way can pin down a future event or development to a precise decan. And the court cards will at least supply the 30 day period in which a future event can be expected. I have never known this to fail, judging by those cases where the querent later contacted me to say the event happened exactly on schedule.

                                      I very frequently am asked by the querent, "When will all this happen?" And it is good to know I can give them an answer by looking at the suit cards and specifying the particular decanate indicated. As to which card of several will reveal the time, that is best decided by intuition as with most things in Tarot reading. A well-developed intuition is very worthy of trust in giving predictions. I hear some people don't like to make predictions, but it often comes up in the readings I do and I have never felt that I need fear giving an approximate date. One woman asked me once when she would get the job she needed. She had been working as a fund raiser for a department of the Florida State Government and had been laid off. So consulted the cards and told her that she would get a good job in about a month and a half. I told her that it would be offered by a private corporation, not a government office and that it would come from some company she had never heard of before, a company who needed someone with her experience and had heard through the grapevine that she was available. About a month and a half later, I received a phone call at the restaurant where I worked at the time. It turned out the be the querent who had somehow tracked me down and got my work number from someone who knew me (never found out who). She had called to tell me that she had just been offered a job from a private sector company of whom she had never heard. They had been told she was looking for work as a professional fundraiser, liked the look of her credentials and immediately offered her a job. She had also remembered I had said that she would get the job in June, but that the real work wouldn't begin until August. They had already put her on their payroll in June, but told her that her first assignment would be to arrange a fund-raising dinner for August. She was very pleased. And the dates were all drawn from the small cards that had supplied the decanates in which all this would come about. So I tend to trust what the cards tell me now.

                                      With love under will,

                                      Bob, Adastra,
                                      The Wizzard of Jacksonville.
                          • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                            Sun, November 15, 2009 - 9:31 AM
                            Adastra....FYI.
                            No i'm not overly sensitive....If you were directing me....at any point....LOL.
                            But as i said, i am an Empath & what you said came over as kind of negative.
                            We all know the power of words, or should i think.... and for my self, i'm really trying to make a point to be positive in my life.

                            But as for readings.....I don't talk about or do readings to impress anyone or show how much i know.
                            I do them for my own clarity, guidance & insight.....and usually only for myself. I have done this for 35 years. But even when i have readings done from someone else,
                            I'm not looking for them to impress me or really care how much they know. As i said somewhere here(lol)
                            Sometimes readings just don't make sense until later, even if both people are using the same 'language' ....Sometimes , the 'Energy', you felt at the reading makes sense later , when something happens. As it did when i got my Breast Cancer diagnosis, which i got in a reading about 6 monthes before the actual diagnosis. That reading or the 'energy' from the raeding made no sense until then.
                            Does that make any sense to you?

                            But yes, it is important that both people are using a common language.

                            Many Blessings to you,
                            Teresa
                      • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                        Fri, November 13, 2009 - 12:29 AM
                        Why do you have to be so negative & condesending Adastra?
                        Maybe it's just the way your statement reads....I don't know.

                        But i use that statement about most everything. Everything has an energy, everything has it's own individual energy.
                        As an Enpath, i know that; i FEEL it. Maybe that's why i say that phrase.

                        And by the way, i'm not an inexperienced reader. I've been reading cards for 35 years, since i was a teenager.

                        You do have a point about figuring 'what kind of energy' it is. That is important to knowing what & how to deal with it.
                        But energies are different & so are people, the interaction they have are all different.

                        Also some people may use the word 'Energy' for the word 'Feeling'....Just as a word for the moment or out of prefferance.
                        That does not mean they are inexperienced or do not know thier deck.

                        So to answer your question, "What does 'this card has energy' mean?"
                        That answer can be s different as every person is. Because like religion, lol, reading cards is highly personally interpretive.
                        And sometimes you know immediately what they mean, sometimes you don't .......sometimes they are just ambiguos, and don't know what they mean until what they mean comes to pass. In that case, you cannot identify the energy, but you still know its there all the same.
                        As an example for that......My Breast Cancer was foretold 6 monthes before i actually ot the diagnosys.
                        At the time, it did not make any sense; but i wrote it down in my notebook just the same(sometimes it's just that way, they make sense later...). And later, after i got my diagnosys, i was looking for reasons.....i guess, looking for a reason of 'why me?' .
                        I looked everywhere, called people......then i looked in my reading notebook too. Started reading past readings, some made sense some didn't. Some made sense looking back, i just did not realize it at the time......
                        Then i found that reading.....That explains why it made no sense at the time, why the 'energy' i got from the card felt so 'bad'. But i did not know why....

                        Does that help answer your question? Do you get where i'm coming from....?
                        Anyway, i hope that helps you see where other people may be coming from.


                        Many Blessings to You,
                        Crowhart
                        • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                          Fri, November 13, 2009 - 10:41 AM
                          Hi,

                          I believe how you interpret cards relies on how you perceive - kinesthetic (often has to put effort into finding the right word, receives feelings, emotion, energy etc.) - visual (receives images, movement, geographical locations, words come a little more easily to this one) - aural (receives info through sound, words, music etc. This can be a little difficult to interpret but these folks usually don't have much trouble with words*giggle*) Now, this statement is a simplification as many other issue affect our mode of perceiving and most of us are a blend of more than one.

                          dandy
                        • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                          Fri, November 13, 2009 - 10:34 PM
                          >>>Why do you have to be so negative & condesending Adastra?<<<

                          I sincerely apologize if you found my comments either negative or condescending. I was simply referring to a feeling of irritation when people (usually beginners, I suspect) make statements that are vague or unclear to the querent. If you say, "This card has a lot of energy" and then go on to tell the querent what you feel about that "energy" then you are certainly not to blame. Yes, it is particularly those who speak of a card having "energy" and stop there with no further comment on how this "energy" affected the spread, or what it means in the effort to answer their question, those are the ones I feel are not doing a proper reading. I have no quarrel with anyone who uses the term and then explains what that means in terms of the spread and the question asked.

                          I had no desire to insult anyone here, I assure you, and if you felt I was being insulting to you, please accept my apology. I don't like confrontation and try to avoid it whenever I can, but sometimes I may say things that someone feels was directed at them when I was only speaking in general terms. I really hate to think that anyone thinks I'm criticizing them personally.

                          With love under will,

                          Bob, Adastra,
                          The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                          • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                            Sun, November 15, 2009 - 9:59 AM
                            No worries Adastra.
                            I really like that we all can exchange our ideas in general as well as , how we each read individually.
                            I have learned some new ways to integrate into how i currently do readings.

                            How long have you been reading? What else have you studied? It seems we have some similar interest, but i don't have near as much to research as i would like. I really need to do something about that. LOL

                            And thank you for your explanation about how Astrology & Tarot. That is 1 thing i never had time to study.....

                            And if i said anything that i may have misconstrude, (by anyone...) i apologize for that....sometimes i have terminal 'Foot-in mouth' disease. lol.
                            The being positive thing is sometimes really a struggle...LOL


                            Many Blessings to you, i look forward to your further post.
                            Teresa
                            • Re: Good card ..bad position??

                              Sun, November 15, 2009 - 12:02 PM
                              >>>How long have you been reading? What else have you studied?<<<

                              I have been reading for over forty years, but lately I restrict myself to doing only free readings for friends who request them. Initially, back in the seventies, people I knew who found out that I had a Tarot deck used to insist that I read for them. I tried telling them that I didn't do readings, that I used the cards only for study and meditation and, further, that I thought Tarot readings were nothing but a ridiculous superstition. Then I told them that I didn't have the meanings of the cards memorized and that I would just have to read them out of the book (One of the very simple Eden Gray paperbacks at that time). They insisted anyway.

                              So, eventually I would read for them. I read the meanings out of the book and did my best to draw as much information as I could from the cards. I was always hoping to hear them say, "No, tha'ts completely wrong", but it never happened. The querent was always quite pleased with my reluctant readings and told me that it was quite accurate. At one point, for example, I did a reading for a young woman who wanted to know whether she should move out of her parents' house and get a place of her own. I told her that there was a young man in her current house who was about age such and such, who had hair of this color and eyes of that color and who was advising her to move out. To my total astonishment, she answered that this was a very accurate description of her younger brother and that, not only had he advised her that she'd be happier in her own place, but that he was the only one in the family who felt that way. And this was fairly typical, back then. No matter how often I tried to push the reading to the point where I felt I was treading on very thin ice in terms of accuracy, the ice always held and the querent was pleased. Peculiar, but interesting in addition to being a bit frustrating, since my views of a rational world were being challenged.

                              Much later, when I let some friends talk me into taking a beginning course on Tarot reading, I found that I was a better reader than anyone else in the class, including the teacher. Sorry, I don't mean to boast, but it was evident to me at the time. The point became clear when I was able to give an accurate reading of a spread that no one else could make any sense of. The subject of the reading sat there and agreed with everything I told him, including the fact (unknown to me before) that he had grown up on his father's farm and had had an uneasy relationship with his Dad, who had been a rather distant, uncommunicative parent. Much of what I told him seemed to embarrass him, but he had agreed with the cards. In my own defense here, I had tried to get out of doing the reading on the ground that what I saw in the spread was somewhat negative, but he insisted that he was a "big boy" and could handle it. More power to him, he did handle it, blushing a bit in places, but nodding his head. It may have helped that whenever I described something that he found difficult all his friends in the class would call out, "Yes, that's John exactly."--or similar comments. I was nearly as embarrassed as he was, I suspect, since I don't enjoy embarrassing my querents. I try to avoid giving people bad news or criticism, though when I find I can't avoid it, I discover that the querent was happy to receive it, as I've mentioned in some of the events I've described before.

                              When I approached the teacher after class one evening and told her that I had always thought Tarot reading was a bunch of superstitious nonsense, she astonished me by saying, "Of course; that's why you're so good at it. It's always the skeptics that make the best readers; true believers never seem to have the knack." Then, she added, "Although the skeptics don't stay skeptics very long." Which made sense to me.

                              As for what else I have studied, I will assume you mean in the psychic and mystical fields since it would take forever to list all of my interests. So on that basis, I have studied: Tarot, Thelema, ceremonial magick, QBL, chaos magick, Enochian magick, sigils, candle magick, Goetia. rune magick, meditation, channeling, "spirit guides", crystals, incenses, oils, Huna, Santeria, Candomble, Voudon, Reikl, Egyptian magick and religion, Greek, Roman, Hindu, Celtic, Japanese, Sumerian and other myth systems, etc. And I have taught on Tarot, ceremonial magick, QBL, Christian and other types of mysticism, et alia. Lest I give too much of an impressive, but exaggerated resume, several of these were no more than a passing, often rather shallow investigation. I have done most of my real work in Tarot, Thelema, ceremonial magick, QBL and meditation.

                              I hope that will answer satisfactorily what you wanted to know about my background. So long as we understand the list is more exhaustive than strictly necessary. I have had a long and fervent interest in such related topics as comparative mythology and various flavors of mystical studies, especially Taoism, Zen Buddhism and Hindu religious philosophy. If you have other questions, I will do my best to answer them.

                              With love under will,

                              Bob, Adastra,
                              The Wizzard of Jacksonville

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