Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

topic posted Sun, April 19, 2009 - 8:29 AM by  Azazeal
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As always I was curious about something. For those of you that really enjoy doing Tarot card readings over doing astrological readings, what would be the advantages of Tarot over Astrology?
posted by:
Azazeal
Honolulu
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  • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

    Sun, April 19, 2009 - 10:11 AM
    I hate math.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

      Sun, April 19, 2009 - 1:13 PM
      I don't think tarot is anything near as prescriptive as astrology.
      • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

        Sun, April 19, 2009 - 1:23 PM
        "I don't think tarot is anything near as prescriptive as astrology. "

        I agree.

        They each have their benefits. If you are asking general statements not related to specific times then perhaps Tarot is best. Such as 'Does my friend love me' 'Will I pass my exams' etc etc.

        But question involving the understanding of an event unfolding at a certain time, so somebody's birth, then definitely Astrology is best. Also astrology is better for looking at the patterns of energy as they unfold across time, the transits. We can tell that in two months time, what energies will be playing on your chart and therefore in your life.
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          Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

          Sun, April 19, 2009 - 1:28 PM
          I think Tarot is more nearly pure Divination. I know horary is a branch of astrology where you can also ask 'does she love me' type questions, but I always enjoyed the artistic merits the cards had.

          As for astrology - you could even see it as an extended kindof a geograpphy - one which relates us not just to country and climate, but to planets and stars, too.
          • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

            Sun, April 19, 2009 - 1:31 PM
            "I think Tarot is more nearly pure Divination"

            Yeah most people (99% I'd imagine) ONLY use Tarot for divinatory purposes, whereas astrology has more psychological angles.

            I think Tarot is always more vague, it depends on the atmosphere, the frame of mind of the reader, the anxiety of the querent etc etc. whereas astrology is much more 'mathematical'. There is interpretation involved but nobody is going to interpret a Uranus transit as a time of steady perserverance and peace and quiet.
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              Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

              Sun, April 19, 2009 - 1:50 PM
              Most people would not quite characaterise Uranus transits as periods of quiet, but on the other hand, most Tarot cards would not usually say the same about the Tower either.

              I think what makes tarot fluid is that there is no native tarot to work from, hence different cards may be relevant or important to yo at different times.
              • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                Sun, April 19, 2009 - 2:12 PM
                I don't believe in a clockwork universe and I don't think humans are clockwork beings.

                Tarot needn't involve a whole lot of forebrain calculation. Just pure intuition. Psychic flash cards.
                • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                  Sun, April 19, 2009 - 2:16 PM
                  "I don't believe in a clockwork universe and I don't think humans are clockwork beings. "

                  Is that how you see astrology?

                  Undoubtedly tarot involves a more 'psychic' or intuitive approach than astrology, but astrology is not about making humans 'clockwork beings'. It is about understanding the tides of cosmic energies and how they affect us.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                    Sun, April 19, 2009 - 2:40 PM
                    Charts, calculations, formulas. Doesn't do it for me. That's all.

                    No intent to invalidate for anyone else, just doesn't work with my reality. Haven't found astrology to be particularly useful as a tool for my purposes.

                    Your mileage may vary.
                    • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                      Sun, April 19, 2009 - 2:51 PM
                      "Charts, calculations, formulas. Doesn't do it for me. That's all. "

                      Perhaps one tool appeals to one side of the brain, and the other tool to the other side?
                      • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                        Sun, April 19, 2009 - 3:19 PM
                        Maybe. Some folks who work with tarot spend a whole lot of effort doing astrological, numerological, kabbalistic and other esoteric acrobatics to get the meaning they want out of them. Seems like an awful lot of work to me.

                        But I'm a lazy sort.
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                          Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                          Sun, April 19, 2009 - 4:10 PM
                          I always use tarot and astrology in conjunction. They both can be equally perceptive to a given question. Horary is predictive astrology, and is very similar to tarot. Natal birth charts can give info into a person's personality (what sort of person they are inside and out, their talents, etc.). Transits can tell you what you might expect in the near future. Composite/synastry charts help in understanding any type of relationships.

                          But tarot can tell past/present/future q's... and is easier to format to suit your question... But, as I said, I use both. Esp. when I am most confused about something. I feel a stronger connection to astrology though and have learned more about myself using it than w/ tarot.

                          In horary, it doesn't matter what frame of mind you are in - if a question is important, it will be answerable. That is not always true w/ tarot. Your emotions get in the way of the reading, I have found (shuffling/cutting, etc.). As an emotional person, I find this very difficult to deal w/.
        • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

          Sun, April 19, 2009 - 7:44 PM
          >>>the understanding of an event unfolding at a certain time,<<<

          Ah, but with Tarot we can time events down to the decanate, the precise ten-day period during which an event is to be expected. It takes a bit of study to commit the decans to memory linked with the small cards that indicate a particular decanate. Every Tarot card except for three of the Trumps, plus the Aces and the Pages (or Princesses in the Thoth Deck) has a specific astrological correspondence so timing is merely a matter of looking at a spread and deciding which card gives the time and how to read it.

          I have often been asked when something in the querent's future will come about and have almost always been able to give them a date within five days either way which later proved to be right on the money. Example: I once read for a friend who wanted to know if she had a chance of getting a job she wanted in another division of her current company. I told her that she would get the job if she wanted it and that in about a month, someone in an influential position within the company would "open a door" to help her land the job. She then said that this was impossible, since a month from then would make it mid-March and the job wouldn't even be posted until June. So I told her that I might be wrong, but this was what I was seeing. I also told her that at that same time, she would have to decide how far she was willing to go for her marriage, because her husband, a notably unsuccessful young man, would be extremely jealous of her success and would not be at all reasonable on the subject.

          About a month later, in the middle of March, she called me on the phone to tell me that her boss's boss, a high-level supervisor had called her into his office and told her that this job would be coming up in June that he thought she should apply for, since she was well-qualified and it would advance her own career substantially. He wanted to take some extra time between then and June to groom her for the job. She was really elated and quite astonished that it had happened as predicted. She also told me that her husband had been quite unhappy to hear the good news; there had been a bitter argument. At the last, he hit her and she told him to pack his things and get out of the apartment. He was gone and she had made an appointment with a divorce attorney to begin filing suit for a divorce. Just as I had suspected.

          So timing can be nearly as good with Tarot as with astrology. In fact, it is not often that we need to know the precise time something will happen to be prepared for it. Getting it down to within ten days is usually accurate enough for most purposes. if it's something that we really want to get exact, we can always look at which planets are prominent in the Tarot spread and check with a good astrology program to see whether any are involved in a significant aspect or cusp within the ten days predicted.

          With love under will,

          Bob, Adastra,
          The Wizzard of Jacksonville
          • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

            Mon, April 20, 2009 - 1:01 AM
            "Ah, but with Tarot we can time events down to the decanate, the precise ten-day period during which an event is to be expected...So timing can be nearly as good with Tarot as with astrology"

            Adastra

            I knew that there were cards that correspond to the zodiac but I nevr realised that ever single decant. Can you point me to a website or something other resource where I could learn that. Sounds useful and interesting!
            • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

              Mon, April 20, 2009 - 2:04 AM
              "I knew that there were cards that correspond to the zodiac but I nevr realised that ever single decant. Can you point me to a website or something other resource where I could learn that. Sounds useful and interesting!"

              Sorry that sentance was a mess.
              "something other resource" ?? .... sorrry...
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                Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                Mon, April 20, 2009 - 12:43 PM
                Crowley's deck actually shows the planets in the signs on the deck, if you're interested in this. I'm a traditional astrologer, so I don't call them decants, which is a simplification. They are planets in a certain sign, and so have a certain dignity/debility to them.

                www.aeclectic.net/tarot/car...ley-thoth/
                • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                  Mon, April 20, 2009 - 11:40 PM
                  >>>I don't call them decants, which is a simplification. They are planets in a certain sign,<<<

                  I must respectfully disagree. Each sign is ruled by a planet, each planet is exalted in a given sign and fallen in another. But decans, or decanates are the divisions within the sign extending in ten degree increments. As each sign extends a total of thirty degrees, there are three decans to each sign, each decanate of 10 degrees. And since the Sun moves at the rate of about 1 degree of apparent motion each day, we can divide each sign into decans of 10 degrees and/or ten days. Each of these divisions is ruled by a planet, which may have nothing to do with the planet ruling the sign or in detriment or exalted or in its fall. The decanates partake of the nature of the sign in which they occur, but are often ruled by a different planet from the planetary ruler of the sign. This will be obvious if we look at the sequence of the planets in the decans of the zodiac, since they follow the regular progression from slowest to swiftest of the 7 planets, viz. Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sol, Venus, Mercury, Luna. It would be impossible for any two adjacent decans to be governed by the same planet except the one at the end of the year, ruled by Mars and the first of the next year, also ruled by Mars.

                  Apparently whatever you mean by decants is something quite different from what I refer to.

                  In Aries, the planets ruling the decans are, in order, Mars, Sol and Venus. The decanates are also spoken of as cardinal, fixed and mutable in order within the sign, so the strength and vigor associated to Mars give us the cardinal energy, fresh, strong and impetuous of the first decan., and the occult title of the card, "The Lord of Dominion", and Mars is, of course, the ruler of the sign. The even greater strength and steady dependability of Sol, also a fiery orb as Mars is a fiery planet, shows up on the card of the second decan, The Lord of Strength, with Sol being exalted in Aries, so at his strongest and most excellent. But in the third decan, the appearance of Venus,considered a watery planet, suits poorly with the fiery energy of the sign, indicating the softening of the energy as it prepares to give place to the energies of earth in Taurus, the next sign. Thus the title of the 4 of Wands is The Lord of Virtue, showing a tempering of the conquest and rulership indicated by the two previous cards.

                  With love under will,

                  Bob, Adastra,
                  The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                    Tue, April 21, 2009 - 12:41 AM
                    Adastra

                    'I can do much better than that; I can post the information right here. I can't learn it for you, of course, but I can get you started on the path.'

                    Whoa

                    Thanks!

                    I'll have to read through it carefully and I'll get back to you if I don't understand something if that's ok?

                    Thanks again!
                    • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                      Tue, April 21, 2009 - 2:24 AM
                      "I can't learn it for you, of course, but I can get you started on the path. "

                      Adastra

                      Ok, I've just read through it carefully. I THINK you made a few typos, its hard to know. It's obviously important to get this right otherwise I'll learn it the wrong way around and make it harder to 'un'learn.



                      "the rule for determining which sign are first by suit and then within the suit, the Queens rule the Cardinal sign, the Princess rule the Fixed and the Knights are assigned to the Mutable sign."

                      Do you mean the KINGS rule the Fixed? Otherwise I don't see where the Kings fit in. I don't use the Thoth deck I use Rider-Waite so is the King of the Rider-Waite deck equivalent with a 'Prince' in the Thoth? This is confusing because I don't know Thoth well enough.
                      So am I right in saying that the 'Princess' of the Thoth deck is equivalent to the 'Page', the 'King' to 'Prince', whilst Knights and Queens remain the same?
                      In which case in the above sentance, did you mean the 'Princes rule' rather than 'Princess rule'? Just a little confusing as there is a Princess as well so just need to clarify, otherwise I might end up learning it wrong! Thanks


                      "The Aces are sometimes called the Throne of the Princesses. And as the Aces cover 90 degrees of sky, the Princesses cover half that, 45 degrees, centered, like the Aces over the central sign of the season."

                      Ok the Ace part makes perfect sense.
                      The princesses are little more difficult to visualise.
                      If it is centered on Leo, does that mean it starts at 22.5d of Cancer as far as 7.5d of Virgo? Just want to clarify it.



                      With all that in mind would this be correct for the Wands, assuming the letters to be the first two letters of the zodiac sign so Ar - Aries, Pi - Pisces etc. And the numbers the decans - Ar 1 - first decan etc.

                      WANDS:

                      1 - Ca, LEO, Vi
                      2 - Ar 1
                      3 - Ar 2
                      4 - Ar 3
                      5 - Le 1
                      6 - Le 2
                      7 - Le 3
                      8 - Sa 1
                      9 - Sa 2
                      10 - Sa 3
                      Pa - '22.5deg Ca' right through Leo to '7.5deg Vi'
                      Kt - Sc 3, Sa 1, Sa 2
                      Qn - Pi 3, Ar 1, Ar 2
                      Kn - Ca 3, Le 1, Le 2

                      (where Pa = Page = Princess, Kt = Knight, Qn = Queen, Kn = King = Prince)

                      Thanks

                      Paul
                      • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                        Tue, April 21, 2009 - 11:16 AM
                        >>>I THINK you made a few typos<<<

                        Yes, typos are the bane of my Tribal existence. Sometimes the fingers just won't do what the brain wants.

                        >>>Do you mean the KINGS rule the Fixed?<<<

                        And another trial is my propensity for thinking I've been clear and overlooked what I haven't explained. Sorry, my bad.

                        First, I apologize for having typed Princess instead of Princes. I keep confusing the Thoth Court Cards with the more traditional Court Cards. This is not hard to do, since I habitually use either set of names; to me, they mean the same thing, and I keep forgetting that not everyone shares that mindset. Again, I apologize. For the record, and as an aid to clearing up confusion the relationships of the Court Cards of different decks is due to a rather complex mythology of relations among the ranks that I'd rather not try to explain here. For the sake of references, here below are the traditional names and the names used by Crowley for these dignitaries.

                        Traditional Name Thoth Name

                        King Knight
                        Queen Queen
                        Knight Prince
                        Page Princess


                        I hope this clears that up. Crowley was something of a Goddess-worshipper (only right for a mere male) and considered the Queen to be the most powerful. She alone retains the title from the traditional deck. The King becomes the Knight, in reference to the fact that he begins as the Knight errant and becomes "King" only by defeating the old King and marrying the Queen (perhaps the Sacred Queen). For Crowley, the importance of the King were exactly those days of wandering in the wilderness. The old Knight becomes the Prince, son of the King and Queen, and the Page thus becomes their daughter, the Princess. This is why the Knight (or King) is linked to the "Mutable" signs. And this whole family drama is clearly based on the family drama presented by Frazier in "The Golden Bough".

                        >>>The princesses are little more difficult to visualise.
                        If it is centered on Leo, does that mean it starts at 22.5d of Cancer as far as 7.5d of Virgo?<<<

                        Okay, again I wasn't clear. The Aces are centered on the 15th degree of Leo, and spread 45 degrees to each side, taking in the entire sign of Cancer and of Virgo also. The 15th degree of Leo is the precise middle of the sign, so the center of the range of the Ace conjuncts the 15th degree of Leo. Forty-five degrees from the center of Leo takes in the first 15 degrees of that sign and all of Cancer, and the same is true of the second half of Leo and all of Virgo. the Princesses (or Pages) OTOH, also center on 15 Leo and spread 22.5 degrees either way. So, if my calculator is correct, the Princess of Wands would extend back to the 22.5 of Leo and forward to the 7.5 of Virgo. I see your math is correct or that we use the same calculator.

                        Thank you for pointing out these mistakes and unclear expressions. This is exactly why I ask my students for questions, comments or corrections as often as possible. For my last class (on magical formulae), I asked pretty often and got no questions, which worried me a little--until we got to the open discussion part of the class. Then I felt myself rewarded by a very lively discussion on the subject matter that ranged all the way to zen koans and back. it's so good to have students who know what questions to ask and what insights to offer. That is part of the honor of being a teacher, the opportunity to see the students offer corrections, questions, speculations and random thoughts about the material.

                        Thank you.

                        With love under will,

                        Bob, Adastra,
                        The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                        • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                          Tue, April 21, 2009 - 3:41 PM
                          "Traditional Name Thoth Name

                          King Knight
                          Queen Queen
                          Knight Prince
                          Page Princess
                          '

                          Oh ok, so it's actually a bit more different than I thought!

                          "Thank you for pointing out these mistakes and unclear expressions. This is exactly why I ask my students for questions, comments or corrections as often as possible."

                          Thanks for taking it gratiously! I wasn't sure if you would get 'narky' with me pointing out the confusions after you spent so much effort elaborating on it. Seriously thanks for that and for the information! I will definitely incorporate this into my next tarot readings. I'll make a point of trying to pin down the dates after I've memorised the new information into the cards. I find these things only work once even your subconcious know what they mean!
                          • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                            Fri, April 24, 2009 - 11:09 AM
                            >>>Thanks for taking it gratiously!<<<

                            You give me too much credit. It isn't a question of grace, but of a sure consciousness of my own fallibility. I once had a friend who was one of the great runemasters, though he was known more locally than his merits deserved. He was asked to teach at our Lodge, but was hesitant. When we talked about it, he told me that his studies came first for him and he was reluctant to take time from study to give to teaching. So I told him, "Jeff, you probably don't realize it, but teaching a subject is a tremendous help in learning more about any subject. In order to receive more knowledge you have to pass some on to others. It's like you have your foot on the garden hose and until you take it off and let the water of information flow freely, the garden of your mind remains dry and lifeless."

                            Pardon the belabored metaphor, but it turns out it's perfectly true. Teachers become very knowledgeable in their fields because having students actually stimulates learning by the teacher. After teaching his first class, Jeff came to me and said, "Bob, you were right. I have learned so much more about runelore from teaching this class than I would ever have believed. Thank you"

                            When we teach something we already know, we open our own minds to learning more. It's a law of psychology. Some might consider it a spiritual law. When we teach something, we look for ways to make it clearer, to present it more systematically and to offer deeper understanding. This by itself stimulates the teacher's brain to meditate more deeply on the subject and receive increased insight, to see connections he never noticed before, and so on.

                            So teach and you will learn far more than you dreamed possible. And often the comments, questions and suggestions of your students will open doors of thought that were hidden from you.

                            With love under will,

                            Bob, Adastra,
                            The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                            • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                              Fri, April 24, 2009 - 12:01 PM
                              "You give me too much credit"

                              You're too humble! ;p

                              Too many people would have been irked at having to reexplain or for that matter not even bother. The fact that you teach those who do not know is a grace in and of itself, even if you do not realise it!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                    Wed, April 22, 2009 - 9:01 PM
                    "I must respectfully disagree. Each sign is ruled by a planet, each planet is exalted in a given sign and fallen in another. But decans, or decanates are the divisions within the sign extending in ten degree increments. As each sign extends a total of thirty degrees, there are three decans to each sign, each decanate of 10 degrees."

                    Yes, I know this. They are not decans in traditonal astrology, they are dignity, exaltation, house, term, face, fall and detriment. I know these systems like the back of my hand.
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                      Wed, April 22, 2009 - 9:04 PM
                      And they do not fall under 10 degree increments. Only faces do (known as "decans" by modern astrologers). That is a minor part of traditional astrology, and a weak dignity of a given planet, so of a lesser influence.
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                        Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                        Wed, April 22, 2009 - 9:11 PM
                        And it is a simplification, as I stated, to talk of decans. Mars at night 0-6 degrees Scorpio has dignity by house, triplicity, term and face. At 7 degree in the day time things change: dignity by triplicity and face only. Debilitations of planets occur at specific signs at specific degrees at specific times (day vs. night) and in specific houses in a chart.

                        What you said was a simplification.
            • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

              Mon, April 20, 2009 - 11:10 PM
              >>>Can you point me to a website or something other resource<<<

              I can do much better than that; I can post the information right here. I can't learn it for you, of course, but I can get you started on the path.

              First, we should all know that the signs of the zodiac are twelve in number and are assigned their own positions according to the element of the sign and the mode within that element. In other words, we have (in order) Fire, Earth, Air and Water. These are the elements of the first four signs, Aries-Fire, Taurus-Earth, Gemini-Air, Cancer-Water. In each element there are three modes, Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable. Since 4 elements X 3 modes = 12 signs, it all works excellent well. The combinations of sign and mode should be readily accessible in any good astrology text, but for the record, here they are in full

              Aries - Cardinal Fire
              Taurus - Fixed Earth
              Gemini - Mutable Air
              Cancer - Cardinal Water
              Leo - Fixed Fire
              Virgo - Mutable Earth
              Libra - Cardinal Air
              Scorpio - Fixed Water
              Sagittarius - Mutable Fire
              Capricorn - Cardinal Earth
              Aquarius - Fixed Air
              Pisces - Mutable Water.

              You can see how the pattern is unchanging. The sequence of Fire, Earth, Air, Water, meshing with the pattern of Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable to produce all possible combinations of element and mode running through the twelve signs.

              As for the small cards, they are assigned according to their number, but they don't follow the same pattern through the zodiac, since the signs in each element are scattered, each one an invariable four signs apart. The sequence for these is built on a regular association. The deuce, trey and four of each suit are associated with the Cardinal sign of that suit. The five, six and seven fall into the fixed sign of the element. And the eight, nine and ten link to the Mutable sign. In each sign the small cards falling to that sign go into the 1st, 2nd and 3rd decan in numerical order. Thus in Aries the sequence will be 1st decan - Deuce of Wands, 2nd decan - Trey of Wands, 3rd decan - 4 of Wands. In Taurus, 1st dec. 5 of Disks, 2nd - 6 of Disks, 3rd - 7 of Disks.

              BTW, the suits are aligned with the elements as Wands = Fire, Earth - Disks (or Pentacles), Air - Swords, Water - Cups. I apologize for not mentioning this before, but I was going on the assumption (possibly mistaken) that this was common knowledge. I include it now for the sake of completeness.

              As for the Aces and the Court Cards, they too have their place, but not in the zodiac, not always. The Aces each govern one quadrant of the heavens from the zodiacal belt to the pole star. They are centered above the Fixed (or Kerubic) sign of the element. Thus the Ace of Wands covers the sequence of Cancer, Leo and Virgo, centered on Leo and extending to all three of the summer signs. By the same token Aquarius rules the quarter of the northern sky that includes Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces.

              With the court cards, the Princesses (aka Pages) are also above the zodiac. The Aces are sometimes called the Throne of the Princesses. And as the Aces cover 90 degrees of sky, the Princesses cover half that, 45 degrees, centered, like the Aces over the central sign of the season.

              The three remaining court cards in each suit do belong in the zodiac itself, unlike the Aces and Princesses. The rule for determining which sign are first by suit and then within the suit, the Queens rule the Cardinal sign, the Princess rule the Fixed and the Knights are assigned to the Mutable sign. There is, however a small overlap added. While Cardinal Fire would indicate the Queen of Wands, only the first and second decan of Aries are governed by the Queen, the third decan is assigned to the Prince of Disks, in the first decan of Taurus. In the same way, the Queen of Wands rules the third decan of the preceding sign, Pisces. In every case, the court cards rule rule from the 20th degree of the preceding sign to the 20th degree of their own sign. These too can help you find a date within a month anyway, but it's usually best to find a small card to pin it down a bit closer. As an example, if we find a four of Wands that would indicate the third decan of Aries, and if the Prince of Disks appears, you can take that as confirmation.

              I should add that the planetary rulers and the planetary exaltations of each sign can provide additonal clues. If we find a card ruled by Mars in a spread indicating the 4th decan of Aries, we can confidently tell the querent to expect the event between the 11th and the 20th of April. The appearance of the Tower Trump, associated with Mars could also provide support to that date. In most cases, though we need not go into such detail. The only remaining uncertainty lies in deciding which card or cards in the spread should be taken to indicate the time.

              Some decks, like the Thoth deck my favorite, provide an image of the sigil for the ruling planet on the individual small cards. if we want to draw out a plot of the sequence, we begin in the first decan of Aries, ruled by Mars and continue in the order of slowest to swiftest planet. Thus the second decan is ruled by the next fastest planet, Venus, then the third decan gets the Sun and the first decan of Taurus goes with Mercury. The full sequence is Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sol, Venus, Mercury, Moon. But the year begins with Mars in the first decan of Aries and there are 36 decans in all (3/sign X 12 signs = 36), and since seven planets goes into 36 five times with a remainder of one, the last decan of the year is also ruled by Mars.

              For those who want to see this all laid out in more detail, I recommend a good book on Tarot that gives the astrological correspondences. My favorite in that regard is "The Tarot of Ceremonial Magick" by Lon Milo DuQuette. (Unsolicited plug.)

              I sincerely hope this has been clear enough for anyone with a knowledge of the zodiac to work out the correspondences for himself; it looks hard at first, but once we begin to study the underlying patterns, it becomes much easier.

              With love under will,

              Bob, Adastra,
              The Wizzard of Jacksonville
              • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                Tue, April 21, 2009 - 7:38 AM
                "If we find a card ruled by Mars in a spread indicating the 4th decan of Aries, we can confidently tell the querent to expect the event between the 11th and the 20th of April."

                Presumably you mean indicating the 3rd decan of Aries? There are only three right? Maybe you mean the 4 of Wands, indicating the 3rd decan?
                • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                  Tue, April 21, 2009 - 7:54 AM
                  You're all demonstrating the advantages of tarot over astrology quite nicely.

                  I need a slide rule to keep this all straight. You're giving me a headache.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                    Tue, April 21, 2009 - 8:05 AM
                    "You're all demonstrating the advantages of tarot over astrology quite nicely. "

                    not really, just that what I had thought Tarot was not useful for is perhaps not true.
                    They're both different and useful at different things. I still think that Astrology is miles ahead of Tarot in terms of understanding the psychology of an individual. The natal chart is more 'definite' somehow than the tarot with regards that kind of thing. It doesn't involve a reader so it seems more 'objective' in some ways.
                    As I say its sort of like saying which hemisphere of the brain is the best? The creative, intuitive side, or the logical side?
                    • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                      Tue, April 21, 2009 - 11:50 AM
                      >>>which hemisphere of the brain is the best? The creative, intuitive side, or the logical side?<<<

                      And, of course, we need to feed and nurture both--to consult both at need. But I believe that any divination is essentially a right brain approach, including astrology. Whatever the chart shows or the cards reveal, it needs the intuition of a skilled reader to lay it bare.

                      From my own perspective, I believe that every divinatory method requires the same specific elements to make it workable. It must have a number of occult symbols of one nature or another. The meanings of these symbols must be somwhat arbitrary to the left brain but with an appeal for the right brain processes. They must also have a wide enough range of meaning that they can be understood from a wide range of approaches and with enough overlap to blend well with other symbols in the group, without sacrificing the individuality of each symbol. For example, it is possible to look at The Hermit and see mainly his separation from society. It is also possible to see mainly the lamp he carries or the staff he leans on. All these have different significance summed up in the image of the Hermit, and each can catch the reader's attention to form the basis of the reading. There is no system for deciding that; the reader must make the choice herself, looking at the spread until one of the images "leaps out" from the others--in other words until one card or one image catches the focus of her intuition and provides a key to open the reading to the querent. The final element necessary to a system of divination is a means of randomizing the order of the symbols and the selection of certain symbols for the spread. With the cards, it's the shuffle, for those reading bones or I Ching or dice, or the fall of pebbles, or the dots made with a stick in sand, it is the positions into which the scattered symbols fall. With astrology, the randomizing principle is more subtle. The positions of the celestial bodies is anything but random; it can be calculated with great accuracy for millions of years into the past or the future. The random factor comes in because, in astrology, the reader has no control over the positions of the planets; the matter is predictable, but not without complex calculations that can hardly be done on the spur of the moment or by mental calculation. And I suspect that astrology would be done better if the astrologer does the calculations by hand; this would help to bring about the altered consciousness that opens the intuitive faculty. The letter and number manipulations of the "literal" Qabbalah are said to serve the same purpose for the Qabbalist.

                      I believe the greatest mistake beginning astrologers make is to think of their art as though it were a science. It's easy to fall into that habit because the complex calculations involved make it seem more "scientific" and "logical". Astrology is as unscientific and illogical as a rain dance; that is the strength of the astrologer's art. It is not where the planets are that matters. Their positions are arbitrary and utterly void of any meaning except for the meanings they hold for the human imagination. Art, not science. Science is too narrow a focus to free the intuition and to answer the human demand for meaning and relation to the cosmos--except for the most dedicated and gifted scientists, an Einstein or a Heisenberg. Any form of divination must involve the reader in the querent's life, circumstances, problems and challenges. Only by the grasp of intuition can this be accomplished. And only by love for the querent can it be motivated.

                      With love under will,

                      Bob, Adastra,
                      The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                      • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                        Tue, April 21, 2009 - 12:34 PM
                        'Astrology is as unscientific and illogical as a rain dance; that is the strength of the astrologer's art. It is not where the planets are that matters. Their positions are arbitrary and utterly void of any meaning except for the meanings they hold for the human imagination. Art, not science'

                        I have seen that view around recently, the idea that astrology is as much a form of pure divination as cystal balls. I think there has been a lot more investigation of astrology by skeptics, so this view is becoming more popular in the absense of 'proofs' for astrology.

                        I
                        • Re: Advantages of Tarot Over Astrology

                          Wed, April 22, 2009 - 9:20 PM
                          >>>the idea that astrology is as much a form of pure divination as cystal balls. I think there has been a lot more investigation of astrology by skeptics, so this view is becoming more popular in the absense of 'proofs' for astrology.<<<

                          I am sure of it myself. As I said before, the problem with astrology is that the calculations required give the gullible the impression that it is more "scientific" since so much science involves advanced math. I don't think, however, that scrying by means of a crystal ball is an operation similar to astrology or tarot in a significant respect. When I look at a Tarot spread, I don't attribute life and intelligence to symbolic images printed on pasteboard. I think of them as randomly generated patters with loosely defined symbolic meanings which are there to stimulate intuition and bring out whatever I may feel about the situation at the unconscious level. For a good reader, this is usually better advice than one could get from a psychiatrist, more direct, more detailed, more immediately useful and far cheaper than psychoanalysis. That same intuition can be used in reading an astrology chart, or an I Ching symbol.

                          Crystal scrying uses the intuition more directly without the props offered by the symbols. The scryer taps intuition directly through gazing into the void within the crystal. One theory holds that at a deep level, our minds have access to a consciousness that ignores time and space. But that theory may be utter nonsense. Jung's explanation was "synchronicity" which he defines as "meaningful coincidence". The trouble with that is that the word labels the effect without explaining anything. And it seems clear it is the human mind that interprets the synchronicity and decides what is and is not "meaningful". I have devoted a lot of thought to what "meaning" actually is, and the best idea I have come up with so far is that "meaning" is an invention of the human mind, that it is humans who create meaning and that from one point of view, that is the function of human consciousness. The bottom line is that theories are always invented after the experience as an effort to "explain" the experience and what it means. But this has little or nothing to do with the experience. All the science in the world can tell you about the ocean only in terms of the composition of sea water, how it behaves, how the tides and waves are produced, what is known about the living creatures who inhabit the ocean, etc. Yet until you dive in and find out how it feels to get wet in the sea and what swimming feels like, it would be more truthful to say that you don't know the sea until you have experienced it for yourself.

                          The theories are worthless except almost by accident sometimes. It's the experience that counts and if you have good results from reading Tarot or cowrie shells or gazing into a crystal, why should we worry about explaining how it works, or why it works? Getting the result we want is what really matters; the rest is merely static from the left brain in a field where the right brain rules.

                          With love under will,

                          Bob, Adastra,
                          The Wizzard of Jacksonville

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