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Ok, this is such a very long story,
I was in an accident once upon a time ago many moons back we're going over 6 years now. I had smashed my head on the pavement because of being hit by a bike, required 10 staples to close my bleeding head. They said I was Bipolar after getting real nervous and "weird" at work. About 4 years ago, they started me on wellbutrin & Clonazepam, this really helped me at the time & I felt it to be a godsend. Then it wore off so I spent about another while trying different antidepressants including Zyprexa , Paxil, Risperal, none hepled then came...Effexor xr.
I was started on a low dosage it helped not only my feelings, I got so much energy & I lost weight too. This was about 4 years ago. Since these past 4 yrs being on this drug they kept increasing my doses. This past year & a half has been the worst. I've been admitted to the hospital for trying to kill myself & put in the pysc ward on a safety hold as a danger to myself! I had tried to take my bottle of 150mgs effexor pills and took a handful in an attempt to OD. My parents called 911 which saved my life. I don't remember being able to control myself as my anger issues had been getting worse for a while, finally I snapped. I do remember reading in the course of these past 4 yrs that HOMICIDAL IDEOLOGY has been added as a warning for this drug! I wasn't ever warned of anything like that. So simple enough, stop taking it right? I can't, I really honestly can not. My brain shakes, I get really dizzy and have a strange out of body feeling..Then I start crying non stop and become truly delusional I MUST end my life somehow. I feel stuck forever...The past 1and half yrs I've become a Cutter, I've sat around becoming interested in true crime stuff (unlike me). I know I wouldn't hurt another person, strictly my heart would DIE , but its me whos at danger here please help? Oh & I don't trust drs anymore they try to push more on me, it's disgusting, I should be on 300mg a day I'm taking 150. My weight has become a problem I'm gaining and can't stop help?
I was in an accident once upon a time ago many moons back we're going over 6 years now. I had smashed my head on the pavement because of being hit by a bike, required 10 staples to close my bleeding head. They said I was Bipolar after getting real nervous and "weird" at work. About 4 years ago, they started me on wellbutrin & Clonazepam, this really helped me at the time & I felt it to be a godsend. Then it wore off so I spent about another while trying different antidepressants including Zyprexa , Paxil, Risperal, none hepled then came...Effexor xr.
I was started on a low dosage it helped not only my feelings, I got so much energy & I lost weight too. This was about 4 years ago. Since these past 4 yrs being on this drug they kept increasing my doses. This past year & a half has been the worst. I've been admitted to the hospital for trying to kill myself & put in the pysc ward on a safety hold as a danger to myself! I had tried to take my bottle of 150mgs effexor pills and took a handful in an attempt to OD. My parents called 911 which saved my life. I don't remember being able to control myself as my anger issues had been getting worse for a while, finally I snapped. I do remember reading in the course of these past 4 yrs that HOMICIDAL IDEOLOGY has been added as a warning for this drug! I wasn't ever warned of anything like that. So simple enough, stop taking it right? I can't, I really honestly can not. My brain shakes, I get really dizzy and have a strange out of body feeling..Then I start crying non stop and become truly delusional I MUST end my life somehow. I feel stuck forever...The past 1and half yrs I've become a Cutter, I've sat around becoming interested in true crime stuff (unlike me). I know I wouldn't hurt another person, strictly my heart would DIE , but its me whos at danger here please help? Oh & I don't trust drs anymore they try to push more on me, it's disgusting, I should be on 300mg a day I'm taking 150. My weight has become a problem I'm gaining and can't stop help?
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Re: Please help me, I'm in my 20's and feel my life is over because of effexor!
Thu, July 23, 2009 - 8:22 AMHi Joan,
I am truly sorry you are going through this.
There are ways of dealing with stress in life.
That includes healthy living, knowing right from wrong and choosing the better of the two, venting or processing the bad thoughts
(which is most of time exactly that,THOUGHTS manifested into stress)and finding purpose in life through spirituality
among other means to help and heal the mind in hard times.
It's life, it's natural to have feelings.
We should use the bad times as a learning tool...if we didn't have the down times and only lived in bliss and happiness,
the first time we have something bad happen,we couldn't handle it.
We are handed difficult situations most every day.
There is a reason for the up's and down's in life.
Unfortunately,for most of us,, somewhere along the way, the " pill " form of stress reduction was introduced
and was supposed to take care of all these problems, but as we know, there is a price to pay for
these chemicals that are prescribed to us.
These chemicals can rearrange your natural processes of the brain.
Yes, these pills can actually do the job that the scientists intended,but what will be the
the long term effects of these non-natural remedies to the mind and body?
These are the questions that are now being answered by all of us that are going though withdrawal and side effects to these
medications.
I can tell by your letter that you are in need of help.
First ,KNOW this,,You are a gift to the world !!
The miracle of being born was given to you.
The bad feelings that you are going though are NOT YOU, it's the effects of a drug !!
You are precious in life so much more than you know, so live and start thinking that way.(yes,i know how your thoughts "have been",but fight those thoughts off and TELL yourself the truth,,YOU ARE IMPORTANT....this will be a test of strength,but YOU CAN.
(trust me,i have had some of the same thoughts as you in the past,and present)
For a start, PLEASE search for all the info you can find on SSRI drugs (effexor,paxil,etc..) so that you will know
all you can about what the actions and reactions of this drug are.
There are great things written and added by Leslee,Sandy.and others here on this forum.
Take it all in and be informed.
I also recommend reading www.paxilprogress.org/pdf/Pax...2005.pdf
(if that does not open,try this www.paxilprogress.org/forums/ and go to the guide at the top of the page,it's a pdf file)
,,yes , i know it names another anti-depressant but it comes in the same class as Effexor and can be helpful info.
STAY POSITIVE in all that you do.....that sounds simple to say ,yet I know from experience it is extremely hard to do.
I know you have no faith in doctors at this time,that is understandable, but until you get
to a safe mentality and over the feeling of wanting to end it all and/or hurting yourself, you need support !!
If you are currently on 150 mg of Effexor XR and still having these feelings,there will be some work to be done.
The doctor may want to try to switch you to something that may work a little better for you,,, Effexor just may be causing many of your symptoms. ( i know, many people may read that and go "duh" !!)....some say prozac is easier on withdrawal,,,but i'm a skeptic and have no faith in anti-depressants,,,,but there are cases out there that they may be the only answer for some,,,,,i still disagree....everyone's different.
I know from experience that quitting Effexor cold turkey or withdrawing too fast will cause harsh effects,and depression and suicidal thoughts can be part of that,,,again,everyone is different,but i have heard this from so many that are in withdrawal.
You HAVE to WEEN off Effexor,SLOWLY....and even then,most people will experience some effects for many months to come.
I think the main thing for you is, you are still young and have so much to live for and experience.
YOU CAN correct this through time,patience, and a strong will.
IN a few years, hopefully you will look back on this and realize your true strength as a human being and the power you possess that can help you climb over any mountain.
I get knocked down mentally all the time and have to keep telling myself this.
To let you know, I will have been completely off of effexor for 1 year ,next month (Aug 21st)
I still have anger. I get upset and set off by small things,still.
I have moments where i may tear up over nothing. I can be watching a comedy show and this can happen.
Most all of my other symptoms have faded like sweats,brainzaps, nausea, and a few others,,,
but i think i have prolonged some of these things just because i have not heeded advice (some of which i wrote above)
to the best of my ability.
I find that exercise and eating healthy is a big key to success but i slip from time to time,,and it seems that's when i get knocked off track and get down again,,,,,,so a set course to follow is the best plan.
You can beat this Joan.
Find help........ I am fortunate to have a wife to lean on....so that helps me....
find family, a friend, a preacher,,,,,whatever it takes.
I pray for you
I pray for us all
hang in there,,,laugh when you can, and know that you are blessed even through these trials of life.
Peace,
Justdave
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More then one withdrawal method
Thu, July 23, 2009 - 5:24 PMDO NOTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE FULLY EDUCATED YOUR SELF ON WITHDRAWAL.
If you are haveing a hard time reading all the info, GET YOUR PARENTS OR SOMEONE TO READ TO READ IT FOR YOU.
There are several withdrawal methods at this site
theeffexoractivist.org/forum/...rum.php
This is is just one method
Easyer to read here.
HALTING SSRIs DAVID HEALY MD
www.mind.org.uk/NR/rdonlyr...ngSSRIs.pdf
HALTING SSRIs
DAVID HEALY MD FRCPsych
N WALES DEPT of PSYCHOLOGICAL MEDICINE
SSRIs
SSRI stands for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. This does not mean
these drugs are selective to the serotonin system or that they are in some
sense pharmacologically “clean”. It means they have little effects on the
norepinephrine/noradrenaline system. There are 8 Serotonin reuptake
inhibitors on the market:
UK Trade Name US Trade Name
Fluoxetine Prozac Prozac
Paroxetine Seroxat Paxil
Sertraline Lustral Zoloft
Citalopram Cipramil Celexa
Escitalopram Cipralex Lexapro
Fluvoxamine Faverin Luvox
Venlafaxine Effexor Efexor
Duloxetine Cymbalta Cymbalta
Venlafaxine in doses up to 150mg is an SSRI. Over 150 mg it also inhibits
noradrenaline reuptake. Duloxetine is a potent serotonin reuptake inhibitor but
not selective to the serotonin system.
WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS
SSRI withdrawal symptoms break down into two groups.
The first group may be unlike anything you have had before:
Dizziness – “when I turn to look at something I feel my head lags behind”.
Electric Head - which includes a number of strange brain sensations –
“its almost like the brain is having a version of goose pimples”
Electric Shock-like Sensations – Zaps – like being prodded with a cattle prod
Other Strange Tingling or Painful Sensations
Nausea, Diarrhoea, Flatulence
Headache
Muscle Spasms/ Tremor
Dreams, including Agitated Dreams or other Vivid Dreams
Agitation
Hallucinations or other visual or auditory disturbances
Sensitivity to noises or visual stimuli
The second group are symptoms which may lead you or your physician
to think that all you have are features of your original problem. These include:
Depression and Anxiety – these are the commonest 2 withdrawal symptoms
Labile Mood – emotions swinging wildly
Irritability
Confusion
Fatigue/ Malaise – Flu-like Feelings
Insomnia or Drowsiness
Sweating
Feelings of Unreality
Feelings of being Hot or Cold
Change of Personality
More generally there is an intolerance of stress.
Any difficulties present may wax and wane and this can be demoralising.
IS THIS WITHDRAWAL?
There are three ways to distinguish SSRI withdrawal from the nervous
problems that the SSRI might have been used to treat in the first instance.
First if the problem begins immediately on reducing or halting a dose or
begins within hours or days or perhaps even weeks of so doing then it is more
likely to be a withdrawal problem. If the original problem has been treated and
you are doing well, then on discontinuing treatment no new problems should
show up for several months or indeed several years.
Second if the nervousness or other odd feelings that appear on reducing or
halting the SSRI (sometimes after just missing a single dose) clear up when
you are put back on the SSRI or the dose is put back up, then this also points
towards a withdrawal problem rather than a return of the original illness.
When original illnesses return, they take a long time to respond to treatment.
The relatively immediate response of symptoms on discontinuation to the
reinstitution of treatment points towards a withdrawal problem.
Third the features of withdrawal may overlap with features of the nervous
problem for which you were first treated - both may contain elements of
anxiety and of depression. However withdrawal will also often contain new
features not in the original state such as pins and needles, tingling sensations,
electric shock sensations, pain and a general flu-like feeling.
Before starting to withdraw, it should be noted that many people will have no
problems on withdrawing. Some will have minimal problems, which may peak
after a few days before diminishing. Symptoms can remain for some weeks
or months. Others will have greater problems, which can be helped by the
management plan outlined below.
Finally however there will be a group of people who are simply unable to stop
whatever approach they take. Some others will be able to stop but will find
problems persisting for months or years afterwards. It is important to
recognise this latter possibility in order to avoid punishing yourself. Specialist
help may make a difference for some people in these two groups, if only to
provide possible antidotes to attenuate the problems of ongoing SSRIs such
as loss of libido.
HOW TO WITHDRAW
If there are any hints of problems on withdrawal from SSRIs, the management
of withdrawal is something to be done in consultation with your physician. You
may wish to show this to your doctor. Over-rapid withdrawal may be
medically hazardous, particularly in older persons.
Many doctors suggest you withdraw by taking one pill every other day for a
few weeks before stopping. There is no guideline that advocates this or
evidence that supports it and the approach is misguided.
One of the first steps to consider is getting a liquid formulation of your
antidepressant. This can be done by asking your doctor to approach the local
primary care pharmacist who can make an application to one of the specialist
companies such as Martindale’s or Rosemount that can make up a liquid
formulation of almost any antidepressant you might be on – see below.
There are 2 theories about what leads to dependence and withdrawal that
dictate slightly differing management plans.
One theory is that the relatively short half life of paroxetine and venlafaxine
make these two drugs more problematic. This leads to a withdrawal strategy
that advocates switching from paroxetine or other drugs to fluoxetine.
The second is that paroxetine and venlafaxine are relatively more potent
serotonin reuptake inhibitors and this theory leads to a switch to less potent
serotonin reuptake inhibitors such as citalopram or one of the older
antidepressants such as imipramine.
Either approach is facilitated by having access to treatment in liquid form.
Paroxetine, fluoxetine and imipramine come in liquid form and anyone having
difficulties with withdrawal should insist on access to the liquid form of
treatment or either these or a special formulation of the drug they are on.
The Half-Life Approach
1A Convert the dose of SSRI you are on to an equivalent dose of Prozac
liquid. Seroxat/Paxil 20mg, Efexor 75mg, Cipramil/Celexa 20mgs,
Lustral/Zoloft 50mgs are equivalent to 20mg of Prozac liquid. Or 40 mg of
Paxil/Seroxat to 40 mg Prozac. The rationale for this is that Prozac has a very
long half-life, which helps to minimise withdrawal problems. The liquid form
permits the dose to be reduced more slowly than can be done with pills.
Some people may become agitated on switching from Paxil/Seroxat to
fluoxetine in which cases one option is take a short course of diazepam until
this settles down. Whether this agitation is caused by fluoxetine or because
for some people the substitution simply cannot be made may be difficult to
determine. If the agitation gets better when the dose of fluoxetine is reduced
then its more likely to be caused by fluoxetine, if it gets worse, then it is more
likely to be linked to withdrawal.
1B A further option is to convert to a liquid form of whatever drug you are
on. Many people cannot change easily from paroxetine tablets to fluoxetine
and switching to paroxetine liquid may do the trick instead.
1C Yet another option is to change from paroxetine to a mixture of half the
previous dose in the form of paroxetine and the other half in the form of
fluoxetine, and then to reduce the dose of paroxetine gradually.
The Reduced Potency Approach
1A Taking this approach, the best option is to change to Imipramine
100mg. This comes in 25mg and 10 mg tablets and also in liquid form. It is
the first serotonin reuptake inhibitor. It is much less potent than the SSRIs,
and has been used widely for children for a range of problems.
1B As above another option is to have a mixture of 50 mg imipramine with
10 mg paroxetine or fluoxetine.
Next Steps
2 Stabilise on one of these options for up to 4 weeks before proceeding.
3 For uncomplicated withdrawal, it may be possible to then drop the dose
by a quarter.
4 If there has been no problem with step 2, a week or two later, the dose
can be reduced to half of the original.
Alternatively if there has been a problem with the original drop, the
dose should be reduced by 1 mg amounts in weekly or two weekly
decrements.
5 From a dose of fluoxetine 10mgs liquid or tablets or imipramine 10mg
tablets or liquid, consider reducing by 1mg every week over the course of
several weeks - or months if need be. ( a syringe is helpful in reducing the
dose evenly).
6 If there are difficulties at any particular stage the answer is to wait at
that stage for a longer period of time before reducing further.
Complexities of Withdrawal
Some people are extremely sensitive to withdrawal effects. If there are
problems with step 1 above, return to the original dose and from there reduce
as tolerated.
Withdrawal and dependence are physical phenomena. But some people can
get understandably phobic about withdrawal particularly if the experience is
literally shocking. If you think you have become phobic, a clinical psychologist
or nurse therapist may be able to help manage any phobic element.
Self-help support groups can be invaluable. Join one. If there is none nearby,
consider setting one up. There will be lots of others with a similar problem.
An alternate approach is to substitute St John’s Wort or an antihistamine for
the SSRI, as these both have serotonin reuptake inhibiting properties. If a
dose of 3 tablets of St John’s Wort is tolerated instead of the SSRI, this can
then be reduced slowly – by one pill per fortnight or even per month or by
halving tablets.
If withdrawal problems appear to ease off and then come back, it is worth
checking whether this was because the affected person was co-incidentally
treating themselves with something like St John’s Wort or an antihistamine.
Some people for understandable reasons may prefer this approach. But it
needs to be noted that St John’s Wort and the antihistamines come with their
own set of problems.
While SSRI withdrawal may not be a problem for some people, for others it
can last months and indeed years – possibly 2-4 years. Even if it endures for
months/years, it does seem likely to clear up in the long run.
In the case of enduring problems, being active is probably important. An
enduring problem is likely to be underpinned by some brain change that can
only be reversed by encouraging activity in that brain area through physical
and mental activity. Gentle but regular exercise and involvement in activities
rather than withdrawal seems more likely to stimulate silenced brain areas
back into life.
If it seems impossible to withdraw and the option is to stabilise on an SSRI for
the foreseeable future, at this point there is no clear indicator as to whether
there is a best SSRI to stabilise on. In terms of ongoing problems paroxetine,
sertraline, venlafaxine and duloxetine are associated with a high frequency of
problems on withdrawal and on this basis seem poor fall-back options.
Fluoxetine is associated with proportionally the greatest frequency of reports
of drug seeking or “addictive” behaviours, and is problematic from this point of
view. By default this leaves citalopram as a fallback option.
FOLLOW-UP
Companies have tried to label withdrawal problems as discontinuation
problems or discontinuation syndromes, because of the negative perceptions
linked to the term withdrawal.
The problems posed by withdrawal may stabilise to the point where you can
get on with life. But whether it is or is not possible to withdraw, it is important
to note ongoing problems and to get your physician or someone to report
them if possible to the appropriate bodies – such as the FDA/MHRA. New
health problems such as diabetes or raised blood lipid levels may have a link
to prior or ongoing treatment. If your doctor won’t report these problems, you
should if you live in a place where this can be done.
There are clear effects on the heart from SSRIs and from some there are
likely to be cardiac problems during the post-withdrawal period. Such
problems if they occur should be noted and recorded. SSRIs can also
increase the risks of haemorrhage, especially if combined with aspirin, and of
fractures.
SSRIs are well-known to impair sexual functioning. The conventional view
has been that once the drug is stopped, functioning comes back to normal.
There are indicators however that this may not be true for everyone. If sexual
functioning remains abnormal, this should be brought to the attention of your
physician, who will hopefully report it.
Withdrawal may reveal other continuing problems, similar to the ongoing
sexual dysfunction problem, such as memory or other problems. It is
important to report these. The best way to find a remedy is to bring the
problem to the attention of as many people as possible.
Pregnancy
The single most important group who need to be aware of all these issues are
women of child-bearing years. A very large number of pregnancies happen in
an unplanned fashion and are several weeks advanced before the woman is
aware of the situation. SSRIs, and paroxetine in particular, are now clearly
linked to a number of problems in pregnancy, among which are an increased
frequency of birth defects, an increased rate of miscarriage, premature birth,
low birth weight, a neonatal withdrawal syndrome and pulmonary
hypertension in the newborn infant.
One of the biggest problems of SSRI dependence involves women who are
on treatment and unable to stop who wish to become pregnant. Getting off an
SSRI at present seems more difficult for women than men, even with the
incentive of wishing to become pregnant.
1. Rosemont Pharmaceuticals (Tel 0113 244 1999)
These prepare large batches (so may be cheaper) for:
Amitriptyline 10mg/5ml, 25mg/5ml, 50mg/5ml
Lofepramine 70mg/5ml
Mirtazapine 15mg/1ml
Venlafaxine 75mg/5ml
Sertraline 50mg/5ml
Dosulepin 25mg/5ml, 75mg/5ml
2. Cardinal Health, Martindale (Tel 0800 137 627)
This manufacturer will usually prepare what you ask for, so if the antidepressant isn't in the
above list opt for this.
Large chain pharmacies like Boots or Rowlands may have their own external supplier who
they may prefer to use as they have a contract with them..
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Re: Please help me, I'm in my 20's and feel my life is over because of effexor!
Sat, July 25, 2009 - 2:50 PMHi Joan you are not alone and like the previous poster Ihave spent some time at paxilprogress and recommend the thread at paxilprogress.org titled "some things I have noticed" you will find my 2cents worth there under "been there done that" This specific thread deals with the personality changes experienced while taking antidepressants.
I too had a head injury before being put on antidepressants for of all things leg pain. Spent 18 years on them went thru cold turkey 6-8 times. I am now in my 20th month of being drug free. Believe me it can be done. I did it cold turkey but there are other ways. Please read lots keep us posted. Feel free to email me here and I will get back to you if you think there is anything I can help with I am here for you. Sandy -
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Re: Please help me, I'm in my 20's and feel my life is over because of effexor!
Mon, August 10, 2009 - 11:09 PMPlease do NOT cold turkey. Take it as slow as YOUR body needs. Each person is different. For a few cold turkey is the only choise. For most people it is a very bad idea.
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