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Hi, I am new to this discussion, but have been reading alot on the Effexor Activist Site.
I have been taking Effexor for 4 years, and its been a nightmare. I am a zombie on it and I get dizzy to the point of non-stop vommitting when I try to get off it. None of the original symptoms of depression have been an issue, but new cognitive and other physical symptoms, such as restless legs, inability to concentrate which is bad on the drug, worse going off, etc have been plaguing me the whole time.
To make things worse, I do a safety critical job with federal guidlines that requires that my employer has medical records on me. I have been trying to get off these drugs for years, and have had to go to a psychiatrist that believes I should stay on them. I have told him allready that the side effects are bad, and the withdrawal symtoms- (a tight head, zapping, dizzy, naseus) are unbearable.
I had to go on stress leave because I had to renovate my house by the end of December in order to get it rented out and save losing it.
My employer said I had to get a report from this Psychiatrist before I got back to work. He wouldn't see me at first.
I live in a small town, with only one Psychiatrist. My family doctor convinced him to see me and do the Back to Work report. I just came from there. I would have had to get on a longer waiting list to see a different doctor.
I was apologetic about not following his advise, but I told him the side effects were bad, and I needed help to go off them. He refused to help, told me to talk to my family doctor.
Oh yeah, I live in Canada, although the rules for safety critical are similar in the States I believe. When the family doctor did my report to the employer he put down depression as the cause, with "numerous occassions" as my past record, which is untrue, it is the symptoms of the Effexor that is the problem, and I took the stress leave to meet a legal deadline- which WAS STRESSFULL! (worked 14 hour days 7 days a week for 2 months.
This doctor is my ticket to continued employment. I feel as it I should have lied to him.
Can anyone think of a way I could get around this drug pushing doctor and have it accepted by my employee health services that I could be a more alert and productive employee OFF the drug?
I have been taking Effexor for 4 years, and its been a nightmare. I am a zombie on it and I get dizzy to the point of non-stop vommitting when I try to get off it. None of the original symptoms of depression have been an issue, but new cognitive and other physical symptoms, such as restless legs, inability to concentrate which is bad on the drug, worse going off, etc have been plaguing me the whole time.
To make things worse, I do a safety critical job with federal guidlines that requires that my employer has medical records on me. I have been trying to get off these drugs for years, and have had to go to a psychiatrist that believes I should stay on them. I have told him allready that the side effects are bad, and the withdrawal symtoms- (a tight head, zapping, dizzy, naseus) are unbearable.
I had to go on stress leave because I had to renovate my house by the end of December in order to get it rented out and save losing it.
My employer said I had to get a report from this Psychiatrist before I got back to work. He wouldn't see me at first.
I live in a small town, with only one Psychiatrist. My family doctor convinced him to see me and do the Back to Work report. I just came from there. I would have had to get on a longer waiting list to see a different doctor.
I was apologetic about not following his advise, but I told him the side effects were bad, and I needed help to go off them. He refused to help, told me to talk to my family doctor.
Oh yeah, I live in Canada, although the rules for safety critical are similar in the States I believe. When the family doctor did my report to the employer he put down depression as the cause, with "numerous occassions" as my past record, which is untrue, it is the symptoms of the Effexor that is the problem, and I took the stress leave to meet a legal deadline- which WAS STRESSFULL! (worked 14 hour days 7 days a week for 2 months.
This doctor is my ticket to continued employment. I feel as it I should have lied to him.
Can anyone think of a way I could get around this drug pushing doctor and have it accepted by my employee health services that I could be a more alert and productive employee OFF the drug?
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Re: What if psychiatrist tells employer he thinks I sould stay on Effexor?
Tue, February 17, 2009 - 8:13 PMHi Tim,
It's late here and I have to keep this short ,, I'll be back with more thought on this later,
but when you have a chance, go to paxilprogress.org and look at the "paxil withdrawal guide" listed at the top of the page.
Yes, I know this is talking "paxil" but it is an SSRI with the same results and symptoms as Effexor.
The PDF file is a long read but it really hits the point on many things you are thinking right now...it helped me and I am still fighting
a battle almost 6 months after being off Effexor.
hope this helps,, be strong,,
Blessings,
JustDave -
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Re: What if psychiatrist tells employer he thinks I sould stay on Effexor?
Wed, February 18, 2009 - 11:37 AMThanks for replying Dave.
I read the Paxil withdrawal Guide. It made so much sense to me. It was good to see that so much was there about coping with emotions that come flying at you as well as dealing with withdrawal symptoms. I know it is not going to be easy.
Time and time again I had told my Psychiatrist about the side effects of the drug. For one thing, I was told that I was to take 150mg in the morning. Sometimes I get called out to work the following night, and during that long night I would experience dizziness, naseau, even as I had prepared myself with sufficient sleep, was carefull with my diet, made sure I had adequate exercise. This caused me great problems at work, and after mentioning it to the Psych seveeral times, he would allways just shrug his shoulders. I found out the hard way that these were the begiining symptoms of withdrawal. I went a few days without the drug and these symptoms increased day and night until I ended up in the hospital on and IV to stop vomitting. Still no-one connected the dots and told me it was withdrawal related. I figured out to take the Effexor in devided doses 2 times a day and it has stopped.
Since the cat is out of the bag with work, I have told my employer health advisor I want to review the medicine with a doctor that uses a stethescope and a blood pressure cuff, (my heart rate and blood pressure has gone up, along with vision problems etc, all which vary with the drug use). I am yet to hear the results of the report from the Pschiatrist, which is supposed to determine whether I am able to work or not, however, since the psychiatrist would attribute my symptoms ro my 'depression' and not to the effects of the drug itself, I expect it will be biased. -
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Re: What if psychiatrist tells employer he thinks I sould stay on Effexor?
Wed, February 18, 2009 - 11:40 AMI am on 150 mg, I take it in devided doses of 75mg. I want to go wean off them finally, and I want to enlist the help of the Family Doctor who will make reports to the health department at work.
Its all out in the open, let the truth speak for itself. -
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Re: What if psychiatrist tells employer he thinks I sould stay on Effexor?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 8:29 AMYou will find lots of info here.
theeffexoractivist.org/forum/...rum.php
Be sure to read Sweettooth’s methods for withdrawal
theeffexoractivist.org/forum/...pic.php
You may want to read “The Antidepressant Solution” By Joseph Glenmullen M.D.
This is Morse's advice from www.network54.com/Forum/281849/
Try a craft knife, shave slivers off each tablet or indeed consider using a nail file.
The idea of using scales and weighing each part tablet is an excellent idea.
Cutting by a quarter is very ambitious, many folks can only manage cuts of 10%, some only 5%
Wait at least a week, sometimes 2, stabilese before cutting further
Remember it's a cut of 5 or 10% of the last dose you were on, not 10% of the original dose
As u get towards the end of the taper the doses and hence dose reduction is minimal
Remember u taper dose like a reverse exponential curve .........visualise an aeroplane landing
Glide yourself down
____________________________________________________________
we prefer a compounding pharmacist for cutting the dose down but this can be expensive and a pain to find. The analogy of a plane gliding in to land is perfect. Slow and gentle is best.
If you know of ANY Bipolar in your family take extra care.
You must tell your doctor that you intend to quite. If your doctor is not educated about quitting ( a shocking number are not educated about this) insist that she or he read “The Antidepressant Solution” By Joseph Glenmullen M.D.
You will find
DAVID HEALY MD’s PROTOCOL FOR WITHDRAWAL at
www.benzo.org.uk/healy.htm
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Re: What if psychiatrist tells employer he thinks I sould stay on Effexor?
Wed, February 25, 2009 - 9:03 PMAt six months off Effexor now, I can say things are getting better but there are still emotions,especially in
the evenings that creep up..and Tim, it seems my eyesight is having some trouble also.
there is no doubt my mind/body is trying to stabilize.
I will win,,,,I can...I will...!!! remember to live this positive attitude,,it helps.
I really believe the single most important thing now is a slow slow slow taper.... i hear of too many people quitting
way too fast....there will be a point where the "last" piece of Effexor is taken and the taper will end.
try to hang on at this point.....it may come easy,,it may be rough.
walking,exercise and eating healthy seems to really help me at this time also....as it should.
Peace
JustDave
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Yes
Thu, February 26, 2009 - 12:14 PMSlow slow slow taper is crucial. Often with a few weeks or more in between dose adjustments.
Do your doctors next patient a favor, and give this information to your Dr. Most do not know how to treat for a bad withdrawal. -
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Re: Yes
Sat, March 14, 2009 - 1:29 PMreporting in still at 150 mg. I will wait for doctor's appointment next Firday to lower dose. -
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Re: Yes
Tue, March 24, 2009 - 7:17 PMHello Tim,
I am sort of a maverick when it comes to these medical matters, but after having consulted with over a hundred doctors for various medical issues (no I am not exaggerating) and examined all aspects including medical, biological, political, scientific, economic, psychological etc. that affect a patient's outcome I feel entitled to make some statements.
The first statement I must stress as the most important (and you absolutely must keep this in perspective at all times)...
Doctors lie. They do it all the time. I have caught nearly every doctor I have consulted with telling me flat-out lies, over and over it happens. I have also caught them writing lies in their medical reports about me, putting words in my mouth, inventing things, omitting things, distorting things, quite deliberately and in many cases maliciously, especially when I question or criticize their obvious ignorance, prejudice, or in some cases stupidity.
It is unfortunate but true that the only way to avoid getting maligned or even savaged by doctors is to stay away from them. Very few doctors have the personal integrity to tell the truth and even if they do have some degree of integrity they still fudge to protect their licenses and incomes even if they know they will cause you problems.
Truthfulness appears even more savaged when we take into account the lies that are promulgated by organizations such as pharmaceutical corporations, the AMA, the APA, the DEA, the congress, etc.
The plain fact of the matter is that if anyone gets cured of anything, especially here in the US where our financial wizards cannot even tell the difference between stocks, loans, and toxic waste, it is usually in spite of (rather than because of) the medical system. Canada is maybe not so corrupt but as our next-door-neighbor there is plenty of spill-over.
So, in a system where both your livelihood and your health have been irreparably damaged by liars in positions of power over you, why are you still playing the rigged game of monopoly according to the rules that the liars wrote to keep you down?
Here is my recommendation to you. Erect your own boilerplate. Invent your own shield of plausible deniability. Protect yourself while striking a blow for freedom.
From this day forward, you need to concoct an official story to tell your psychiatrist. Everything is fine and you are taking your drugs exactly as prescribed.
But you also have to make sure that all the evidence is consistent, so you need to do some other things too.
Watch a funny video and tell yourself jokes before going in to your appointments. Dress smartly and make sure you are clean. Avoid coming in hung over. If you are in a bad mood or upset about something, invent a story about being sick and pinch your nose when you call in to reschedule your appointment for a better time. If you have to, just skip the appointment and call in later explaining that you got hung up in traffic or delayed at the office or mugged by a thief.
Make sure that you are in a good, happy mood when you see that jerk who will not listen to your valid concerns and who is practicing dogma to protect his income and his professional reputation by keeping you hopped up on drugs to keep the world safe from your unrestrained ego.
If you have to, take a tranquilizer or a small dose of your antidepressant poison to flatten your affect and induce a slight hypermanic episode before going in to your appointment.
Another thing you can do is to smile inwardly with the serene knowledge that you are now playing the game of life intelligently instead of falling into the traps this jerk is digging all around you. When he asks you how you are feeling and you tell him 'fine, fine, everything is OK doctor jerky", you will be able to muster a genuine smile as you lie right back at him when he tells you how important it is to keep poisoning yourself daily and enrich him with regular useless checkups.
But that is not enough. Most doctors are not stupid and they occasionally enlist others to spy on you, especially psychiatrists. They sometimes call police, employers, pharmacists, friends and family, without disclosing what they are doing or why, and ask about you. It is not a violation of confidentiality to ask questions, only to give out information, and in this case there is already a legal path of two-way communication with your employer. If they suspect that anyone is in danger they will intervene. It is their legal responsibility to do so.
You need to make sure that your story is consistent no matter who is consulted about you.
Always tell the same story to everyone else you meet, or say nothing at all. You are taking your meds as prescribed and they are working fine.
Buy your prescriptions on schedule (even if you have medicine left over) so that the records at the pharmacy match your story.
Most difficult is to keep watch over your own tongue. Psychiatrists make a living off the tongues of their patients. From now on, your tongue is classified. You cannot disclose anything to anyone and you repeat your cover story as consistently as a spy working for the CIA or whatever the acronym is in Canada for 'intelligence'.
You keep watch over what you say about other things too. No manic or depressive confessions to co-workers or lovers. Even keel all the way. If anyone in your life is upsetting you, stay away from that person. Forget about trying to 'fix' anyone. If your lover or your boss or your landlady is broken, get another one.
In the meantime, you have to taper off Effexor and stay off all psychotropic drugs in the future unless they are absolutely essential to your health, which is almost never the case. You will be the ony judge of whether or not psychotropic medications (or any other medication, for that matter) is essential. That is a constitutional and a human right.
I recommend staying away from recreational drugs too. No marijuana, no tobacco, no alcohol, no junk food. You cannot afford a buzz right now. You need to remember what it means to feel human, not run from it.
Here is why you must do these things...
There is no such thing as medicating you against your will for your own good. It is always for the benefit of others and if you also happen to benefit too that is a coincidence. The primary thing that psychiatrists and the laws that support their forcible interventions are concerned with is protecting public safety and they will poison or even kill you if they think that is necessary to protect everyone else from you.
It may sound extreme but if you think about it for a while, you will gradually realize that there is no public interest in protecting people from themselves. Ultimately no one cares if you kill yourself or hack yourself up. The only thing others care about is how your actions impact them, such as the grief your relatives or children may experience or the trouble the police may have writing out the reports and removing the body, the cost of towing your vehicle and cleaning up the debris or the possibility that you may take someone else down with you or throw a spouse and/or children onto the public dole.
You are a free person and what they are doing to you is definitely harming you. They inflict this harm because they fear what you might do if not in a chemical strait jacket and they convince themselves that the harm they are doing to you is minimal or even your paranoid imaginings in order to justify what they do. They are taking advantage of your good nature to calm their own fears so you need to wake up and stop the harm.
Like you said, you are more functional without the poison in your system and with the exception of a few people here and there who would not qualify for your job anyway, basically no one benefits from the drugs you are taking except those whose livelihood depends on the profits from treating you unnecessarily.
The evidence is now in that there never has been and probably never will be an 'antidepressant' medication. 'Depression', along with all the other 'mood disorders', is a purely subjective and culturally defined ailment that has more known, proven causes in the environment than in the blood stream. It is completely inappropriate to medicalize its treatment and the popular remedies have all been proven no more effective than placebo, except for maybe nutrition, exercise, and a supportive environment.
In the meantime, here is how you taper.
Open your capsules and use graph paper to measure out your dose. Buy a pill cutter or use a knife to shave off a fraction of the pill. Invent whatever you need in order to slowly reduce your dose without arousing any suspicion at the psychiatrist's office.
Keep in mind that if you start complaining about withdrawal symptoms you will raise suspicion that either you are lying about taking the pills or that the drug is no longer 'effective' because you have developed a tolerance to it. Once you start to experience withdrawal symptoms, stay at that dose until they go away completely.
If the withdrawal symptoms are not gone after a month on a plateau (FIXED DOSE) of a slow, gradual titration to zero, it is a good bet that they will stay with you for a long time if not permanently. Get used to them before reducing the dose further. Learn to hide and compensate for them. There will be continual gradual improvement for up to two years, but by that time you should be off the drug entirely already anyway. My experience with along with several others has been that withdrawal symptoms never go away entirely. I still have my movement disorder and I quit Effexor in 2004.
In the longer term, you have a decision to make. It is pointless to keep seeing a quack doctor for nothing except to stay out of trouble.
You have to eventually 'come out of the closet' and disclose that you stopped taking the drug over a year ago. Bring along all the unused drug and the copies of your medical records describing your medical condition as 'stable' to prove that you were right all along and do not need any medication.
Either that, or you have to change jobs.
I recommend that you request a copy of your medical records every 3 months. That will help to keep your doctor honest and give him a heads-up that what he is doing to you may eventually come up for official review, possibly in a malpractice lawsuit or at least with regard to your employment.
If you find that he is lying about you, start bringing a video recorder to your appointments. That will give him the message real quick that you are not going to sit there and take it in the rear passively. Psychiatrists make their living off sheep who take it in the rear indefinitely without ever complaining that more is getting stretched than just the truth. -
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Re: Yes
Sun, March 29, 2009 - 8:49 AMThanks so much for the long post Cheryl.
It is accepted by the medical officer at work now that I do no have to see the psychiatrist and can just report in to my family doctor.
I have reduced the dose down to the point that I am free of the anti-depressants, alot with the help of supplements and some counselling. I have come to realise that alot of my symptoms are anxiety related and have begun to use the "Linden Method," which has been very illluminating. It requires alot of discipline, but persistance, support and mainly improvement give me motivation. Exercise, and forcing myself to confront fears caused by the anxiety have been very helpfull. I keep having panic or anxiety attacks that wake me in the night and compell me to medicate, but making a commiittment to stay away from mind numbing addictions or behaviours does help. It really is just as much a process of changing my outlook and challenging my behaviors as it is a physical behaviour. The symptoms of anxiety have been so diverse and dibhilitating and I had allready begun to become abit of a hypochondriac in my search for relief. There certainly are issues of health that have to be followed, but there is alot to be said for just plain confronting fears.
It is becoming more and more apparant that learning to change my behoviours and attitude, although much harder than taking a pill, is way more helpfull. I'm lazy, and taking a pill was so much easier than changing my behaviors, facing my fears. I don't completely blame the doctors. They can't change my behaviours, only I can. The family doctor I see thinks the anti-depressants should only be used as a tool, not a cure. I think doctors here are getting much better informed about the dangers of anti-depressants, which is a stark contrast to the days when these psycho-active drugs were considered the be all and end all. Its a credit to patient activism.
Depression and Anxiety are not diseases with known causes. The drug companies may want us to think so, but there is no proof that a lack of neurotransmitters is causal. -
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Re: Yes
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 8:20 PMclicked on a link to the effexor activist and this is what i saw below....
Information
You have been permanently banned from this board.
Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.
A ban has been issued on your username.
this is just a test to see if i can post here.
i didn't think that i have said or done anything wrong.
if someone notices anything,please inform me.
** Tim(above) sounds like you are on the right path.....blessings. -
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Hi JustDave
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:31 AM
You were not really banned. I got the same message. It was just a glitch at the site. (It had the poor tecs pulling their hair out.)
It should be working fine now.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. -
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Re: Hi JustDave
Fri, April 10, 2009 - 10:08 AMThanks Leslee
kinda figured it was a glitch...
sent you a message..
thanks
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Re: Yes
Wed, April 22, 2009 - 1:03 AMMy lord Cheryl you are such a breath of fresh air to me if I were a man I would marry you lol.
To Tim I live in Canada too and have been thru the system here if you think it any different than what she is saying you are fooling yourself. The lies told by big pharma are multi national and sorry to say the corruption has followed the drug money. IMHO
I think every words she has given you freely are worth gold please take them to heart it is your life and your choice. I wish I had heard them while there was still a chance for me to turn it around.
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Re: Yes
Sat, May 9, 2009 - 7:19 AMThis is off topic I was wondering if you have found any sites that are viberantly working on this issue I want to connect if you have I am searching but so far no such luck. please post of pm me if you have. -
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Re: Yes
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 6:58 AMI haven't been around for months and thought I would drop by.
I am off the Effexor, and have quit smoking, coffee. I rarely drink and don't do other drugs, and have been very vigalent about thoughts and activities
Anxiety and Panic Attacks, and resulting dizziness, confusion, phobias..... its all there.
Its what I do that counts. I can choose to do something, like meditate or exercise, eat well, be in good social situations. The more I fall away from that path the worse it gets.
Introspection is useless. I may be a vicitm of this drug, but playing a victim just produces more anxiety. -
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WOW
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 3:15 PMThank you Tim, it is nice to hear from you.
I am so impressed with your strength and with your great positive attitude. I am proud of you.
You are truly an inspiration.
I do not believe that there is any right or wrong way for people to feel, about having long lasting side effects. It is a hard thing to deal with. You seem to be taking good care of your self and dealing with it, in a way that is best for you.
All the best to you.
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