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Dear Egyptian style dancers,
On another forum I recently got into a discussion on the differences between the old time dancers from the 50s and before and the more modern style dancers from the 60s and beyond. I am interested in hearing from other Egyptian style dancers on what they perceive as the differences and similarities between the dancers from both sides of the dividing line.
Some of the similarities I noted:
Same fundamental vocabulary
Same inherent connection to musicality
Same cultural vibe
Some differences I noted
Different emphasis within the music with cleaner accents starting strongly in the 60s... more use of defined pops and locks, if you will
Different use of horizontal space, with the later dancers using the circle as a way to cover space more
More costume variety after the 1970s
I am looking forward to hearing what eeryone has to say as far as what they have noticed!!
Regards,
A'isha
On another forum I recently got into a discussion on the differences between the old time dancers from the 50s and before and the more modern style dancers from the 60s and beyond. I am interested in hearing from other Egyptian style dancers on what they perceive as the differences and similarities between the dancers from both sides of the dividing line.
Some of the similarities I noted:
Same fundamental vocabulary
Same inherent connection to musicality
Same cultural vibe
Some differences I noted
Different emphasis within the music with cleaner accents starting strongly in the 60s... more use of defined pops and locks, if you will
Different use of horizontal space, with the later dancers using the circle as a way to cover space more
More costume variety after the 1970s
I am looking forward to hearing what eeryone has to say as far as what they have noticed!!
Regards,
A'isha
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Mon, June 22, 2009 - 6:38 AMI think it's hard to tell exactly what the "earlier" dancers were really like (pre-1950's) since we don't know what they were hearing while being filmed dancing, you know? Always wondered about that - -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Mon, June 22, 2009 - 8:10 AMDear Anthea,
I think equipment was much less sophisticated and what we see and hear on those old films is pretty much what they got.
I think it was much different form now, where on a movie set, there might be no sound at all. For example, my daughter was an extra in the television movie, "Rose Red" . She is in the bar scene and she and the other extras pretended to tak and interact and then bar noise was filled in later, behind the main action and vocals that went on in the foreground of the movie. I think it was done quite differently in the past.
Regards,
A'isha -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Tue, June 23, 2009 - 7:00 AMInteresting! let's hear it for less sophisticated equipment! so nice to actually see & hear reality.
Anyway, if that's the case, then I'd say the earlier dancers were less dramatic in their responses; tho really, every era has so many variables in terms of individual dancer's styles. I can always think of an exception to whatever generalization I come up with.... -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Tue, June 23, 2009 - 9:20 AMDear Anthea,
Me too!! If we say they were less dramatic, someone will automatically point out Naqwa Fouad in that one movie where she was a huge drama queen, or point out Dandash of today, who is really low key!! LOL!!!
Regards,
A'isha -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Tue, June 23, 2009 - 1:03 PMHi Aisha,
I'm not really into making two fixed categories: "old" and "new" dancers. But I'm interested to talk about this clip with Naima Akef in it, dancing in a film. There are moves I'd neither qualify as old or new butttt definitely- dunno, never seen hops like that as I think.
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 8:48 AMThat is adorable! It looks like "art imitating art", like she was putting in elements of the ballet version of Sheherezade or something - & the music sounds like that too. Naima Akef's amazing, her approach to dance kind of reminds me of Nagua, very creative & drawing from sources outside the Middle East.
thanks for posting that, I hadn't seen it before - those funny outbidding scenes - -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 9:00 AMDear Anthea and Gang,
This is a great example of one of the issues that Jeanette Cool, Leyla Lanty and me, along with Morocco and a few others have tried to call attention to. In these movie clips we see, often the dancer is not dancing as she really would in a club or other true dance venue. She does what the director wants her to do, not what she wants to do, necessarily. We have to take these movie clips for what they are... movie clips that demonstrate the director's vision more than the dancer's dance skill in many cases. I read a dissertation by a Muslim film critic once. It was an academic paper and it talked about belly dance as a device in film in Egypt. Usually the belly dance scene was meant to help create a certain kind of background for the protagonist in angst, sitting in a nightclub, brooding, smoking and drinking, etc. Another common usage was the dancer dancing as a prelude to a sexual encounter that was not shown on screen, only hinted at with the dancer as the clue to the action that was not shown. The dancer dances, the door shuts on a couple about to do "You Know What". anyway, I think the clip is a really good example of the director's control over what the dancer did in all those movies.
Regards, A'isha -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 11:26 AMam I the "Gang"? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 12:28 PMDear Nuria and Gang
Sorry, I did not mean to offend, usually when there is more than one person in the conversation, I forget how many there are because I am old, and then I just refer to everyone as "Gang". I will be in the Gang, too and then we can do gang stuff together like wear headbands and wear our pants really, really low below our boxer shorts. We can buy nays and do drive by flutings!!
Regards,
A'isha -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 1:32 PMOMG that is cute, Aisha, there's only two of us apart from you! If you can't count two people, how do you want to draw neat comparisons between so many dancers and stick them into two categories: old and new? I mean to say this in a friendly, sympathizing way, but you have your head in the clouds! I bet you're not even that old. -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 2:30 PMDear Nuria,
I am 56......... and some days my brain is 106, BC ( Before Coffee!!). I am not sure neat comparisons can be drawn, but there are sort of general guidelines that can be drawn about the older and newer styles. In fact I see more comparisons than contrasts! Dance, I can do....math as we see, not so much... By the way, do the other two of you know how many is in a gang?? I have to admit I am a little fuzzy on the exact number.... as we can plainly see!!!
Regards,
A'isha -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 7:34 AMDear A'isha,
Here in the south we refer to a gang as y'all.
The contraction of you all.
More than 1 person = y'all
:)
~Zafira -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 9:14 AMDear Y'all,
Can we be a gang now since Zafira is here, too?? I need to go out and buy a nay.....
Regards,
A'isha
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 11:09 AMHow cute! There are definitely some South Asian dance inspired moves in there. Thanks for the link!!
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 12:31 PMWith regard to the more defined pops and locks, on her Modern Egyptian style DVD, Ranya Renee notes that the music has changed since the 1950s to include much more doumbek and other percussion, so there are more accents to the dancer to respond to even in grand sweeping intros, which used to consist more of just strings/wind instruments. I don't know whether that change in music is due to what dancers wanted, what audiences wanted, what musicians wanted to play or just inevitable change in what is popular, but when you listen to old and new recordings, you can hear that difference.
I think arms were more lyrical in the pre-50s dancers as well, though again that might have been at the film directors' bidding to fill up more screen space. -
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Re: Comparison and contrast of Egyptian dancers old and new
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 12:49 PMDear Badriya,
I have heard this theory put forth before and I am not sure I totally agree with it, (though I think Ranya Renee is one of the best dancers in the States!). When you hear live music in Egypt, it still retains that inherent sort of "messiness" that one hears in the old music. Someone recently explained that what makes it seem like there is heavier percussion and a sharpness to the music today is the digitalization process. I know when I was in Cairo last year and listened to several different live bands, I thought, "Why can't we get this on CDs at home?". The digitalization process sort of destroys that natural feeling of a whole band playing together and creating a sort of noise that is holistic as opposed to technical, I think. And it makes the percussion sound somehow cleaner and stand out more on the new technology for recording music.
Regards,
A'isha
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