Ok, so what is the time-frame to be included as an "elder" goth? I still don't feel old. It must be all of that young-blood I've been getting drunk on. I was born in '69 and came into the scene in the early '80's So I may be old in real years, but not so much in the "Goth scene" years. So I just want to know, "How does one gauge thier age in the scene?"
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Dayton
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Re: How old is elder?
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 6:48 AMHmmm... at first I took "elder goth" to be any goth over 30. But if we ALSO mean this to include "time in scene" then it gets a bit trickier. There was no recognizable goth subculture where I was as a kid and I was pretty much the only black-clad-Byron-reading-Siouxsie-listening-cemetary-hanging person I knew. So there was no scene for me. Once there WAS an identifiable subculture and moniker (which kept getting applied to me) I realized I'd been a goth pretty much all my life. So for me, it's not a matter of "How long have you been wearing black and going to goth nights at the clubs?" but more a matter of, "How long has this gothness been a condition of your soul?" In which case a lot more of us than you might think could be considered "elder goths." It'd be interesting to know how the kinderbats view it. -
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Re: How old is elder?
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 4:35 PMI agree with Alex, it's a blend of both things - age, and "time in scene".
My own take on this? Anyone who's got 10 or more years straight *actively* involved in the subculture AND is over the age of 25, cuts the Elder profile to me. The only reason I bring a specific age into the equation: in my mind being an elder *anything* requires some breadth of maturity and experience, which age (not necessarily just time) usually brings. Case in point: several of my friends have children who are now in their teens (eep!) and although these kids have technically been immersed in the subculture since they day they were born, I'd definitely not consider them "elders".
So OK, age and time. But what about the scene itself? Many of us in the 35+ group were involved in something in the early 80's which hadn't been labelled as "Goth" yet - so it's difficult to say exactly *what* scene we spent all our time in. Death rock? Gloom punk? I forget what we used to call it. But it was by all accounts what we'd consider to be Goth by today's standards. So I suppose then, it would be safer to define "the Goth scene" as "a dark alternative lifestyle" (or something to that effect). More of a mouthful, but a bit more accurate I think.
Thoughts? -
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Re: How old is elder?
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 7:49 PMI remember a friend of mine who wasn't into the cemetary, black clad, blood red lip wearing, Carmilla reading subculture referred me as a "progressive" LOL. Which I thought was funny because I was so stuck firmly in the past. -
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Re: How old is elder?
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 11:48 AMI've been hanging around cemeteries since the early 70's, and have been Goth before the word was used. Does that make me an ancient Goth, or an old fart Goth?
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Re: How old is elder?
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 5:59 PMHow about - as old as we damned well - it would be better for one not to ask - want to be?
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Re: How old is elder?
Sun, August 26, 2007 - 12:29 AM"There I was, on the lace cuff of "dark New-wave", peering over the edge into the scene that was becoming Goth."
So, I guess I would say that if you were "Goth" before there even WAS an established scene with such name, you are unquestionably ELDER. Generally I would say you'ld qualify for the title if you were at least 30 yrs old no matter how long you've been in the scene--just so long as you still are in the scene to some degree.
As for "scene years", I am inclined to accept the 10 year mark.
Hey isnt' the whole Goth aesthetic firmly rooted in the fact that, even when we were teen-agers, we all felt that we were OLD SOULS anyway? So the term "Elder" Goth is a real accomplishment and should be rewarded with some kind of honorary momento, I think. Oh, I know the perfect thing--SILVER HAIRS!!!!!!! -
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Re: How old is elder?
Sun, August 26, 2007 - 3:45 AMWell, I was a glam before adoping all-black, listening to Alice Cooper and wanting to wach vampire films - which my parents did not allow me to do, in case it gave me Ideas. Funnily nough, when goth was a real thing in the mid 80's I was not drawn to goth at all.
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Re: How old is elder?
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 8:04 AMI have a whole forest of "silver" hairs. Looks cool with the black. -
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Re: How old is elder?
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 1:17 PMI TOTALLY AGREE!! I love my silver. But now if I want to change my hair color everyone falsely thinks I'm trying to "hide the gray". I remember dying my hair TO gray when I was 18 years old. It was gray with black roots, and I was a natural blonde. Took a while, but It looked awesome! -
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Re: How old is elder?
Tue, August 28, 2007 - 5:20 PMmy hair hasn't seen its "natrual" color long enough to find the grey but, I love seeing those wonderful, graceful , elder ladies , with their beautiful long grey hair. One day I hope to have those lovely silver strands as well. -
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Re: How old is elder?
Wed, August 29, 2007 - 6:46 AMOh I secretly have lots o silver! LOL Of course I started getting the darned things when I was 17... Problem for me is that my "real" hair color is a few shades off actual black, more like "black" coffee and it has a LOT of red lights... which ends up looking weird with the blue black I prefer. So my devious hair plan is to remain "in denial" until I'm 45 and then start adding artifical silver streaks in with the black and slowly increase them each year until I'm solid silver. I suspect this is going to cost me a fortune over the next 10 years but I just don't care! LOL -
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Re: How old is elder?
Wed, August 29, 2007 - 6:49 AMI don't know if there s silver in my hair or not, tere migh be at the temples, but it is hard to tell. -
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Unsu...
Re: How old is elder?
Wed, August 29, 2007 - 7:45 AMI feel like 900 years old today.... is that "elder" enough?
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Re: How old is elder?
Thu, August 30, 2007 - 2:16 PMAhem... Did someone say silver? Gosh. :) -
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Re: How old is elder?
Thu, August 30, 2007 - 4:25 PMKate, I just looked at your pictures. I wanna be you when I grow up. Stunning! -
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Re: How old is elder?
Wed, September 5, 2007 - 7:14 AMME TOO ME TOO-- Wow, what a silver fox!!
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Re: How old is elder?
Sun, September 16, 2007 - 11:02 AMThere's a very simple test:
IF current goth fashion makes you shake your head and laugh.
and
IF "emo kids"* cause you to fall into hysterical giggles and desire to decapitate them with old Morrisey and Smiths albums
and
IF spazzy little babybats make you fly into a rage because they just won't stop sloshing their drinks on you.
and
When someone says "bauhaus/virgin prunes/bolshoi/shriekback/cab-voltaire/test-dept/meatbeatmanifesto" you don't say "lolwut", but instead get a rush of nostalgia....
THEN....
You're an eldergoth.
Damion
....................yeah, I'm an eldergoth. now get the HELL off my lawn. -
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Re: How old is elder?
Sun, September 16, 2007 - 11:08 AMAddendum: you poeple and your silver hairs. I admit to no small amount of jealousy. Blonde by birth, and lookin at my parents, well, I'm going to look like a fershlugginer surfer till I die.
The worst part is, no matter how much bleach and toner I use...it. just. won't. DYE.
/sadsigh
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Re: How old is elder?
Mon, September 17, 2007 - 10:38 AMDamion, simply brilliant... :)
I agree 100%, but if I may suggest a simple, one-question test that strips the corn right off the chaff, it is this:
Do you remember what every self respecting Goth diva used as a Purse before the Lunchbox generation took over?
If you said a Patent-Leather <Insert container here, e.g. Purse, Hatbox, mini Hatbox, etc.>
...you are an Eldergoth.
"Aluminum Camera cases" and "Ammo Cans" are acceptable substitutions.
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Re: How old is elder?
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 12:07 PMAhem, how about .. "Get the hell off my PLOT" .
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Re: How old is elder?
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 12:57 AMWhen the younger generation, the all-black, eyeliner wearing types declare that "Marilyn Manson is THE SH!T!" and inside you laugh to yourself, "this child has NO CLUE what real Goth is!" then you are an elder. Of course, in your car you have a Bauhaus/Sisters of Mercy/Mission UK/Peter Murphy CD that you listen to.
Either that, or when you go to clubs you see that the clubgoers are wearing stuff from Hot Topic, when back in the day it was more interesting to put your own original outfits together (when there was NO Hot Topic).
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Re: How old is elder?
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:41 PMhehe...you just described the playlist on one of my mixed TAPES! remember those?
that's probably another clue...if you originally compiled your music on cassette you're probably "old" .
I still have about 300 mixed tapes spanning the eighties & nineties; there are some treasures on them that I don't think I can find anywhere else nowadays.
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