Album/Label experience - care to tell us about yours?

topic posted Tue, April 29, 2008 - 4:36 PM by  sAro?
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Hello all,
I hope that all is well out there on the interwebz and at home/studio in the DAWs.

I've got a topic here that I've been meaning to post for a while, so here goes.

I was chatting with our good friend Joe (Shavingronaldscar) today and he informed me that he was just signed to a label. Wooo hooo!!!! Congratulations, Joe (please remind us of the label's name - I forgot and closed the chat before I marked it). In discussing, I was reminded again of this topic idea which is simply, do you have a label that represents you or have you released your own album? If so, please share your experiences with the group.

The music industry, as we all know and has been discussed fairly often lately, has been going through a sea change. The DIY (do it yourself) mentality is back in a major way. While this has it's pluses, there are drawbacks of course (for everything, right?). So, with the ability to score an album in your own bedroom if desired, what is really the place of a label but to distribute our various arts? It's a complicated issue and one that many of us have very little if any experience with and it would be a great benefit to the group to explore the topic further here.

So, what was your album releasing or label signing experience like? Are you satisfied with the results? What could have gone better if anything? What would you do differently next time or would have been done differently if you had "known better"?

Please feel free to address this topic however you would like whether it be rant form or sticking to the topic strictly. I would love to read about it and, of course, we can all learn from the successes and mistakes of others.

Alright...thanks for playing!!!!
posted by:
sAro?
California
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  • This is a good topic and offers me the chance to ask one of my novice questions…
    Lets say I have a group of tracks I created and I like them and want to buddle them together in an album for other to hear.
    What would be the best next step…
    Burn CDs and send them to collage radio stations?
    Create a myspace page?
    Get on itunes? How would I get on itunes anyway?

    What if I had something that was more of a demo that I wanted to be better produced and distributed? Then what?
    • In the year 2001 I realized that all of my friends who were signed to either major labels or major independents
      weren't making any money at all.

      I decided to leave the business at that time and invested in a good computer and the ability to make my own
      graphics and burn my own CDs.

      I made more money with my first abstract electronica release than any of my aforementioned friends and actually
      lived off of my earning for three years (subsidized by teaching, recording sessions, production gigs, and
      modern dance score commissions).

      In the interim last three years, however, CD sales have dropped to almost nothing with my work and with the work of
      almost all the independent artists I know.

      LOL, now we are making what everyone who's on a label used to make..................close to nothing.

      I know I risk being viewed as an old timer and a fuddy duddy, but I have to say that I hate what MP3 bootleg downloading
      has done to the music industry.

      Still, and all, there is a plethora of really incredible bands out there doing music these days so music is healthy.
      I just had the fortune to sit in with the Akron Family tonight (wiht the Dodo's rhythm section added to the band).
      What a fucking kick that was.......................small house but packed to the gills and people freaking out dancing, singing
      and having a good time.

      It's all worth it whether one makes money or not, is what I've come to!
  • I could throw some horror stories up here but I think the thing to remember is that a label is an investor who wants a high return. That's the reality. All the money you hear about someone getting signed for is mostly a marketing, recording and promotion budget. Like any investor, a high return is expected in the long term and short term. What a good label can do is be more connected than you are, so they can call in bigger favors. That's it. They will position you in ways you can't. If you are connected yourself, you can call in those same favor and get things done. Right now, signing to a major seems like a REALLY bad move, especially a 360 deal (labels share in tour profit and merch). If you're going with a label I advise you to ask them to be specific about their marketing plan and how it will benefit your group-if they can't do something you could do yourself, there's no reason to sign...
    • thank you joel--so concise, yet RIGHT ON.

      i think many people forget (or don't know to begin with) that this is what the deal is with labels--they're in it to win it (for them.) not to suggest that labels are bad, but they can't afford to spend money out of altruism (it's not good business.) what's sad to me is that at this point in history that labels like other businesses have to be so concerned with short-term returns (i think that's what's ruining business, period.)

      for me, a "deal" is a means to an end--get my name out there so i can get better gigs, because people know my music.

      rick, i think we have to stop looking at the mp3 thing the way the industry does--as "pirating." imo because of the way that (major) labels jerked their customer base around with cds (by lying about lowering the price after a while) and fighting the new technology (mp3s) instead of being smart and embracing/incorporating them early on people have decided that recorded music is no longer a product that needs to be paid for. if that's what the "customer base" has decided, then that's the way it is--there are other ways to make money from music.

      i have more to say, but i didn't get enough sleep last night and it's siesta time...
      • Most definately-sAro-

        I hope this keeps things on subject-I've sent these to you before, let me suggest that everyone check out:

        www.futureofmusicbook.com/2008/...abits/

        and

        newmusicstrategies.com/

        ...as reference for what they are dealing with. I've seen some labels do some good-I'm considering hiring a publicity firm for my current project, not a label-their interest are aligned with yours and the middle man is cut out immediately.
        • wow, some great things to consider here. I'm on the verge of signing, and these issues are all most enlightening to my newbie brain. I'm basically one of those weirdos that lock themselves away from reality and make noise for days on end, I have absolutely no concept of the business end of things, so it's very good for me to read all this. The record label, saro, is Cascabel Records, btw.
          • Dude! For your own sake-LEARN THE BIZ!!! You've got to understand that if you don't watch your money (and more importantly your FREEDOM) no one else will. If nothing else, directly calculate your return with the people you're going to sign with and WRITE IT DOWN ON PAPER TOGETHER.

            Ask them how much you make and how much they make off the sale of 100 copies of you're record/single/whatever. Get specific numbers...

            Ask them who owns your name/moniker...

            Ask them who owns the music once its done...

            Make them agree to a 3rd party audit to keep both of you honest...

            I know it sucks, its boring, its more fun to create art, but if YOU value you're art and the time it took to make it and present it to people, DON'T SIGN SOMETHING UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT!!!!!
            • absolutely, I've joined a musicians union, and I'm getting the contract looked at by lawyers. It also states in the contract that, once a year, at any given time, I can call in a third-party audit on them (or something like that). I'm just waiting to see what the lawyers have to say, but I have a good feeling about these guys, and my intuition concerning people is usually pretty good.
              • Thanks for the great topic sAro-

                ...to be fair, some people who create labels actually want to produce good music and don't want to rob people but it may come down to who pays for what. Signing a deal is a business partnership and you want to go in under fair terms, that's the most important thing-everyone knows their rights and responsibilities and operates under those parameters...

                Generally it comes down to recoupables (that may be spelled wrong). If a labels gives you a recording, promo and marketing budget, they are only doing so (and only should do so) if they have a way to make the money back. The old model was to sign a bunch of groups and promote some (the ones you thought would be successful and let the others flounder. If they were somehow successful in spite of you, they'd make a killing anyway because of the lopsided contract (i.e. risk they felt they took on you). The problem nowadays is two fold:

                1) It's easy through specified effort to promote yourself and you have as much access as the labels.
                2) Taste makers and taste making have been completely decentralized.

                So you have to decided what exactly a label will do that you can't. Before they could have a popular radio DJ play your song or get you on TV via licensing. They still can, but so can a promo agency and as the client of an agency, you can get a lot more done just hiring them (if you have the loot or credit).

                Hope that helps some...

                J
                • absolutely! I think I've made sure of the essentials though. I can still play all the tracks live, do concert recordings of them, and I don't have to give these guys any up front cash.

                  Really, I can only win with this. If the tunes don't sell, or the guys turn out to be pricks, well, I make better tunes all the time anyway, so fuck it.

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