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If you aren't in Electronic Music Production tribe
I found this pretty funny and relevant to what we do here:
www.beathive.com/station/node/28
Grand Theft Audio: The Top 10 Sample Cliches Of All Time.
Submitted by PXR8 on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 07:11.
* Loop and Sample Tips
Dedicated to the aficionados of the Akai S950, the EMU ESi32, K2000, MPC1000, etc.
"Sampling" may have only been around since the 1980's but the idea of creating music from other recordings has existed since the time of Musique Concrete - a form of music invented in the late 1940's by Pierre Schaeffer. French composer Schaeffer experimented with the manipulation of tape loops to create new compositions.
While Schaeffer's work arguably expanded the repertoire of music to include deconstructed recordings and "any sound", the idea of borrowing and building on existing music has probably in essence been around since the beginning of music itself...
It was even considered an accepted discipline by classical composers: The "Theme and Variations" was a musical form that created variations - literally "remixes" of a melody - often a well-known one. Beethoven was considered one of its greatest exponents. Also, composers such as Liszt used the "Operatic Paraphrase" in the 19th century - a form where they would create new works with the melodies from the famous hit operas of the day woven in. It is interesting that rather than being frowned upon, this was accepted in those days. Also worth considering was that not everyone could then afford opera tickets - and so the Concert Paraphrase exposed musical works to whole new audiences.
In another interesting twist, composer Liszt created the Hungarian Rhapsodies based on themes he heard Gypsy musicians playing in his native Hungary. Unbeknown to Liszt, it turned out that the Hungarian musicians themselves had appropriated the songs from the old Hungarian nobility!
Jazz music also took existing themes and reworked them in new and novel ways - and so did Reggae.
It might be ventured that "club music" performs a not-too dissimilar function nowadays in creating variant forms for different audiences. But that's not how big acts and their lawyers see it - especially when there's money to be collected.
Bridgeport Music Inc apparently filed suits against over 800 artists over use of samples from the George Clinton catalogue (Source: Wikipedia/sampling )
The point is - it has been going on forever, it will always go on. You can't really stop it, musicians are like roaches. You just drive them deeper underground...
In my view the real issue is the boundary between inspiration and plagiarism.
It is interesting to note that Pierre Schaeffer was interviewed in the 1990's and asked what he thought of the modern sampling movement. He sneered at it, saying it was "Too easily done".
And so after that rather lengthy intro (oops) I come to my take on the "Top 10 sample cliches of all time". Hideous examples of how creativity and industry have been superseded by the pressure of a huge credit card bill for the purchase of that nice shiny Akai S1100....
If you are still using any of these sounds, consider yourself officially tarred and feathered.... :)
1. Terence McKenna samples. This should be made a deportation offence, it is not even funny.
2. John Bonham from Led Zeppelin - "When The Levee Breaks" drum loop. Especially if you (badly) shoehorn ghastly wailing pygmy samples onto this loop, add a cheesy vocal and have a number one hit. You want to see me break things? Play me that song.
3. French girl whispers. Well these aren't quite so bad, actually. Score bonus points of pure evil if you have no idea what she is talking about but use the sample anyway. One day someone is going to get their revenge by making an "ethnic vocal" sample set which if translated says something really funny - then put it up on all the free download sites and then just sit back and wait for the fun.... hehe....
4. Ethnic voices. Look, it's music not packet soup. You can't "just add hot water and stir voila." That isn't being creative. Ok, I did it too. Anyway...
5. Loleatta Holloway's awesome "Love Sensation". Who got to it first? Was it Black box in about 1990? I wouldn't have minded so much apart from the obvious "one finger keyboard playing" of the high note. Dreadful.
It just goes to show that all you need is a killer vocal.... "You just walk right in and take me away-ay-yeayy"
Some great tracks have been made using cut up pieces of this vocal - and some truly terrible ones. It's probably the most sampled accapella vocal in the history of house music - and I can think of about 20 tracks off the top of my head that have used it. Anyway: Find new pastures!
6. The orchestral stab. They used to put this on old rave tracks all the time. Kinda funny really, it always did sound daft.
7. Anything by James Brown. Especially the "Whoo. Yeah." one.
8. That Shakuhachi flute sound, I think it's from the old Emulator II library. Used by Enigma and just about everyone else. Has been played out since about 1991. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 pounds.
9. The Amen Break. The sound that inspired a genre was actually a 6-second slice of an obscure 1969 B-side called "Amen Brother" by the Winstons. It's only a cliche in the sense that everyone and their dog has used it: It still sounds cool if you ask me. That snare is badass! But I feel for the guy from the Winstons... all those people profited appropriating his work and he didn't get a cent. Just plain wrong.
10. Beethoven Moonlight Sonata. This is so not allowed. I mean, you could at least display some erudition and rip off the Hammerklavier or something. (joke)
Well that's my top 10 list. All this stuff is officially "bad form", and if not actually illegal it should be. Anyone care to contribute any more?
On a side note, probably the earliest example of media content being mashed up and screwed around was the cut-up video of Hitler remixed to the tune of "The Lambeth Walk" in the 1940's - anyone seen that one?
PXR8
:)
I found this pretty funny and relevant to what we do here:
www.beathive.com/station/node/28
Grand Theft Audio: The Top 10 Sample Cliches Of All Time.
Submitted by PXR8 on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 07:11.
* Loop and Sample Tips
Dedicated to the aficionados of the Akai S950, the EMU ESi32, K2000, MPC1000, etc.
"Sampling" may have only been around since the 1980's but the idea of creating music from other recordings has existed since the time of Musique Concrete - a form of music invented in the late 1940's by Pierre Schaeffer. French composer Schaeffer experimented with the manipulation of tape loops to create new compositions.
While Schaeffer's work arguably expanded the repertoire of music to include deconstructed recordings and "any sound", the idea of borrowing and building on existing music has probably in essence been around since the beginning of music itself...
It was even considered an accepted discipline by classical composers: The "Theme and Variations" was a musical form that created variations - literally "remixes" of a melody - often a well-known one. Beethoven was considered one of its greatest exponents. Also, composers such as Liszt used the "Operatic Paraphrase" in the 19th century - a form where they would create new works with the melodies from the famous hit operas of the day woven in. It is interesting that rather than being frowned upon, this was accepted in those days. Also worth considering was that not everyone could then afford opera tickets - and so the Concert Paraphrase exposed musical works to whole new audiences.
In another interesting twist, composer Liszt created the Hungarian Rhapsodies based on themes he heard Gypsy musicians playing in his native Hungary. Unbeknown to Liszt, it turned out that the Hungarian musicians themselves had appropriated the songs from the old Hungarian nobility!
Jazz music also took existing themes and reworked them in new and novel ways - and so did Reggae.
It might be ventured that "club music" performs a not-too dissimilar function nowadays in creating variant forms for different audiences. But that's not how big acts and their lawyers see it - especially when there's money to be collected.
Bridgeport Music Inc apparently filed suits against over 800 artists over use of samples from the George Clinton catalogue (Source: Wikipedia/sampling )
The point is - it has been going on forever, it will always go on. You can't really stop it, musicians are like roaches. You just drive them deeper underground...
In my view the real issue is the boundary between inspiration and plagiarism.
It is interesting to note that Pierre Schaeffer was interviewed in the 1990's and asked what he thought of the modern sampling movement. He sneered at it, saying it was "Too easily done".
And so after that rather lengthy intro (oops) I come to my take on the "Top 10 sample cliches of all time". Hideous examples of how creativity and industry have been superseded by the pressure of a huge credit card bill for the purchase of that nice shiny Akai S1100....
If you are still using any of these sounds, consider yourself officially tarred and feathered.... :)
1. Terence McKenna samples. This should be made a deportation offence, it is not even funny.
2. John Bonham from Led Zeppelin - "When The Levee Breaks" drum loop. Especially if you (badly) shoehorn ghastly wailing pygmy samples onto this loop, add a cheesy vocal and have a number one hit. You want to see me break things? Play me that song.
3. French girl whispers. Well these aren't quite so bad, actually. Score bonus points of pure evil if you have no idea what she is talking about but use the sample anyway. One day someone is going to get their revenge by making an "ethnic vocal" sample set which if translated says something really funny - then put it up on all the free download sites and then just sit back and wait for the fun.... hehe....
4. Ethnic voices. Look, it's music not packet soup. You can't "just add hot water and stir voila." That isn't being creative. Ok, I did it too. Anyway...
5. Loleatta Holloway's awesome "Love Sensation". Who got to it first? Was it Black box in about 1990? I wouldn't have minded so much apart from the obvious "one finger keyboard playing" of the high note. Dreadful.
It just goes to show that all you need is a killer vocal.... "You just walk right in and take me away-ay-yeayy"
Some great tracks have been made using cut up pieces of this vocal - and some truly terrible ones. It's probably the most sampled accapella vocal in the history of house music - and I can think of about 20 tracks off the top of my head that have used it. Anyway: Find new pastures!
6. The orchestral stab. They used to put this on old rave tracks all the time. Kinda funny really, it always did sound daft.
7. Anything by James Brown. Especially the "Whoo. Yeah." one.
8. That Shakuhachi flute sound, I think it's from the old Emulator II library. Used by Enigma and just about everyone else. Has been played out since about 1991. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 pounds.
9. The Amen Break. The sound that inspired a genre was actually a 6-second slice of an obscure 1969 B-side called "Amen Brother" by the Winstons. It's only a cliche in the sense that everyone and their dog has used it: It still sounds cool if you ask me. That snare is badass! But I feel for the guy from the Winstons... all those people profited appropriating his work and he didn't get a cent. Just plain wrong.
10. Beethoven Moonlight Sonata. This is so not allowed. I mean, you could at least display some erudition and rip off the Hammerklavier or something. (joke)
Well that's my top 10 list. All this stuff is officially "bad form", and if not actually illegal it should be. Anyone care to contribute any more?
On a side note, probably the earliest example of media content being mashed up and screwed around was the cut-up video of Hitler remixed to the tune of "The Lambeth Walk" in the 1940's - anyone seen that one?
PXR8
:)
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 7:23 PM<7. Anything by James Brown. Especially the "Whoo. Yeah." one.>
first off, that's a LOT of music that's just been "cliched." a LOT. 2nd, if you're gonna do that, you should at least know the NAME of the song that you think is over used ("think (about it)" - lyn collins.)
<9. The Amen Break. The sound that inspired a genre was actually a 6-second slice of an obscure 1969 B-side called "Amen Brother" by the Winstons. It's only a cliche in the sense that everyone and their dog has used it: It still sounds cool if you ask me. That snare is badass! But I feel for the guy from the Winstons... all those people profited appropriating his work and he didn't get a cent. Just plain wrong.>
so jungle/d&b is now outlawed? you can count the number of tunes in this genre that DON'T use the amen break.
personally, i don't agree with this type of mindset -- outlawing samples. i think that the rule really should be "if you're gonna use possibly trite samples, use them in new ways, or freak them so no-one realizes what it is." -
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 7:52 PMI've heard that either 1200 or 2100 people own the rights to the actual Amen break. I don't think that "so jungle/d&b is now outlawed?" was what the author was trying to get at.... it's more that the actual Amen break was straight up lifted from Amen Brother, and now 1000+ people claim rights to it. -
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 10:21 AM<I don't think that "so jungle/d&b is now outlawed?" was what the author was trying to get at.... >
i agree, but my point was that by suggesting that people stop using the "amen break" that would be one of the effects. d&b/jungle producers cut their teeth using "amens" similar to the way that hiphop producers used to do with "the bells" (officially known as "take me to the mardi gras" - bob james.) the difference is that "amens" are considered "the jungle break" whereas "the bells" was just a really popular hiphop break like "funky drummer."
<it's more that the actual Amen break was straight up lifted from Amen Brother, and now 1000+ people claim rights to it.>
i'm not quite sure what you mean by this, care to explain more fully? -
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 5:10 PMG. C. Coleman, the drummer of the original Amen Break from the song Amen Brother, has never received any royalties from people sampling his solo.
This YouTube video explains the history very well: www.youtube.com/watch
And here's a wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen_break -
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 9:32 AM<G. C. Coleman, the drummer of the original Amen Break from the song Amen Brother, has never received any royalties from people sampling his solo. >
and how much do you think that clyde stubblefield makes from samples of "funky drummer?" i think most likely james paid him his regular salary (read "hit me fred" for first-hand accounts of mr. brown's dealing w/musicians) and that was that.
there's not a "performer royalty" that's usually paid in the usa (i think they do in europe)--you're the artist, writer, or publisher, everyone else has no claim for a piece of the sampling money. -
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 11:14 PMI am not going to argue which way is "right." All I was getting at was that I personally like to hear new takes on things. Much of the D&B/Jungle I heard last night DID that, it was very interesting and scared off the kids almost instantly.
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 7:54 PM<personally, i don't agree with this type of mindset -- outlawing samples. i think that the rule really should be "if you're gonna use possibly trite samples, use them in new ways, or freak them so no-one realizes what it is.>
I agree with spicing things up if you're going to "borrow" music. Recreation, by the book, is what classical music is for. I don't much want to listen to what is essentially a cover, or even a remix, if there is no remixing or at least a new take on a sample. -
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 3:43 AMabsolutely. there is so much sound out there to be deconstructed/fucked with. let us borrow and make new! I actually used amen breaks for the first time on my latest track. check it out folks!
www.icompositions.com/music/song.php
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 10:47 AM<I agree with spicing things up if you're going to "borrow" music. Recreation, by the book, is what classical music is for. I don't much want to listen to what is essentially a cover, or even a remix, if there is no remixing or at least a new take on a sample.>
but this is where it gets slippery--what is "a new take?" subjectivity...
sample techniques i respect:
1. digging -- using something obscure
2. flipping -- using something obvious, yet obscuring or recontextualizing it so you hear it differently
3. editing -- using something not necessarily obscure or obvious, but just picking "the dope part." usually this comes from a track that's lame, but one portion is good.
examples:
1 www.amazon.com/gp/product..._mu_dp_trk2 j dilla (jay dee) "workinonit" sampled from 10cc's "worst band in the world" (i'd heard of 10cc and didn't know anything about this song.)
2. www.imeem.com/people/6o2Y..._breakadawn/ de la soul "breakadawn" samples "i can't help it" by michael jackson & "quiet storm" by smoky robinson (both from hit albums, not to mention that a radio format was named after the 2nd song.)
3. www.amazon.com/gp/product..._mu_dp_trk3 black moon "who got da props" sampled from "waterfall" by ronnie laws--i'm a ronnie laws fan and i always thought the original tune sucked.
sorry to stick to hiphop, but it's easier/quicker to find examples. -
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 6:00 PMI think you guys are taking this blog post way to seriously.
It somewhat reminds me of this one.
stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/
I say you should sample and tweak everything you can until you come up with something you like. If everyone else doesn't like it then move on and keep trying. All in all it is great experience to build yourself up to when you develop the chops to develop something that is great.
If every artists worried about critics then nothing great would get created.
James Brown is Dead. (For reals) -
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 9:34 AMyou know if you get 3 musicians in a room SOMEONE is gonna get serious about something--even if the other 2 are just trying to have a beer. -
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Re: Grand Theft Audio
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 12:23 PMI lol'd twice. Good times, guys. heh!!
Habby four20
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