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I know thread ages, but was wondering if anyone had any idea at what point it should be tossed? I'm cleaning out my mother in laws sewing stuff (she passed away) and clearly I won't attempt to use thread on the wooden spools ;), but there's a lot of basic thread that's , oh 8 to 10 years old.
Should I just toss it?
Should I just toss it?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 10:52 AMUnless some thread-eating critters have gotten into it, or perhaps it's been stored in direct sunlight the whole time thereby bleaching one side of each spool, there should be nothing wrong with it. Even the stuff on the wooden spools, I pick those up in thrift shops all the time and have no trouble whatsoever. If you think about it, 150-year-old clothing is held together with 150-year-old thread, or older! -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 11:54 AMAdding and amending to Beetle, I find it depends in large part on the intial fiber content of the thread, method of storage, and ultimate use. Machine sewing definitely requires a perkier thread than does hand sewing as the machine sewing process stresses thread. I have much over 10-year old thread, but tend on to rely on it for machine work.
Silk and cotton are more subject to decay than is nasty poly or poly-blend.
Thread can dry out and become brittle, and I'm in the habit of using silicone lubricant on dicey thread.
But I can't throw thread away as I know the moment I do I'll need 2' of the color I just threw out to sew on a button and I'd scream.
My two cents' worth. -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 12:08 PMRub it with minty wax and make floss.
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 12:13 PMAh, true about the effects of humidity/dryness, especially if alternated as occurs in some climates. I'm guessing silamide (nylon) loses its suppleness pretty durn fast. And there is variation in original quality of thread too. Antique cotton thread can get mingy on the spool if it was the cheap stuff to begin with.
(And silicone lubricant? Must find out more about that, but it's even more OT.)
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 2:10 PMDoesn't think the question of how long thread is truly useful is at all off-topic for a Tribe dedicated to sewing authentic Elizabethan clothing. -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 2:29 PMBut no one really is. Nearly everyone is dedicated to making "faire wear." Thats not authentic Elizabethan clothing, not by a long shot.
I'm sorry to be dour about this, but it's the truth.
"Faire wear" has its purpose and reflects realistic concerns like budget, climate, deadlines, hard use, ease of care and so forth. That's fine, its made to be functional within set perimeters, all well and good. But its not authentic Elizabethan clothing.
This would be far better with its own, ahem, thread.
H -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 2:55 PMAnd to be annoying... unless it is an extant garment from the Elizabethan era, it isn't authentic, either. Maybe a really great reproduction, but not "authentic".
Yeah, I am in a mood.
As to the thread topic... give the thread a yank and see how well it reacts. If it comes apart with a snap or a crumble, don't use it. If it holds well enough then it is useable at least for hand sewing. In general the threads on the spools are better to look at than to use. I'm pondering how to display some of the wooden spooled threads I acquired. -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 3:40 PMI meant to write what Kimiko said. I use my old thread for hand sewing only. Doi. Sorry.
In response to Howard, sorta true, sorta not. The primary venue at which most to the stuff we discuss is worn is some sort of "faire," but if you poke around on this particular Tribe, you'll find more than one pretty intense authenticty discussion. To the point of coming to blows. Nice blows, but blows. We're an opinionated and over-researched crew.
There is a "Ren Faire Costume Addicts" Tribe. And there is a lot of faire-specific talk here as well, but a lot of the folks in this Tribe are pretty fierce on the subject of authenticity as well, or can be.
Speaking from a personal standpoint, I've not actively participated in a RenFaire since 1979, but I'd be willing to bet I'd win an authenticity smack-down on the subject of ruffs. with anyone in the States. To the point of teaching a class called "Authentic (sorry Kimiko) Elizabethan Ruffs."
My knowledge of that particular bit of Elizabethan clothing is over 30 years in the brewing and I vet most of my stuff with Jenny Tiramani before I post it. She who got PofF Vol 4 published and worked for the Globe in London and did the Chamber of Demonstrations video on Jacobean theatre practices.
I can't think how I could get more "authentic." Jenny recently sent me some unpublished photos of a ruff which has never been documented which she found in Switzerland. Six layers. And a lot of the folks here are equally fanatical on their particular subject. I'm not alone.
Sorry. Loves ya, but I'm a cranky pants today, too, it seems. Jeeze, who rattled my cage!!!!!!! LOL.
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 5:10 PMMaybe we can just use a better word than "authentic" in discussing what we discuss? Just a thought. -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 6:51 PMAcademics. I think we're all in this to learn techniques and hear about what others have read in the historical arena. The "authentic" discussion is the same as the mid-20th c. "retro" vs "vintage" discussion. Can get pretty darned annoying and snarky, I feel. We're not making the same stuff made in the 16th century (unless your thread is THAT old!!), so it's all just an approximation. We take ourselves too seriously a LOT of the time...igh.
Thread: Yeah, it gets limp and weak over time. I don't cover mine (it's displayed on a wall), so it gets dusty and discolored, but only the top layer which I can remove. I like to keep the unusual colors even if they're old because of repairs which are usually accomplished by hand anyway. -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 7:12 PMIMHO, authentic is a perfectly good word for what we are endeavoring to create, as far as the first and second definitions go:
1 obsolete : authoritative
2 a : worthy of acceptance or belief as conforming to or based on fact <paints an authentic picture of our society> b : conforming to an original so as to reproduce essential features <an authentic reproduction of a colonial farmhouse> c : made or done the same way as an original <authentic Mexican fare>
3 : not false or imitation : real, actual <based on authentic documents> <an authentic cockney accent>
(from Merriam-Wenster online)
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 10:01 PMI've been using the thread on the wooden spools, it has been working fine for me. If it doesn't break when I yank it, I figure it's good enough.
I don't want to make faire wear. It's not braggable.
I want to make real clothes in the styles of original garments from "ago" (I do more than one time period) using authentic cutting, construction, and finishing techniques, with materials as close to the originals as I can find and/or afford.
I realise that when I make a hybrid garment with details from several garments of a similar timespace, I have therefore not made a reproduction, and when I use cotton thread it's not precisely authentic. I will not be making clothes in the authentic sizes either, since they wouldn't fit me. That said, a linen shirt I hand sewed is not necessarily faire wear just because it's been worn at a ren faire.
I think most of us in this tribe either dwell in or aspire to dwell in the grey-to-charcoal range in between the bright white of a fairy wench costume and the deep black of an extant gown. Some, like Noel and Kimiko, are distinctly off-black.
Although like many here, I would make faire wear if paid a great deal of money. I will even make costumes if motivated with chink.
jus' sayin'
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:09 PMWell, natural fibers rot, faster in sun or wet conditions. You may find old thread that's strong and you may find it disitegrates in yoru hands. But it's not something like an expiration date on that hoagie in the fridge. I have a place I buy old wooden spools of silk thread from - sometmes I win, sometimes I loose.
Oh, dye chemicals also can contribute to a lack of longevity... some dye components weaken fibers, especially older dyes so you may find frequent color probems with certain brands or certain color ways. No way to tell until you try it! :-)
8-10 year old thread is not taht old and should be just fine. Just tug on it and see if it breaks easier than your new thread of comparable weight and fiber content. If it hasn'tr been damaged by drying out, sunlight or moisture, you can use it indefinitely. -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 5:25 PMI never meant to create controversy. What I meant to say is that most of the people in this particular Tribe want their Elizabethan clothing to adhere to the most authentic standards they can recreate, using Rebecca's definitions of authentic. I would never presume to say that most of us just make Faire-wear, although that's mostly what I make, myself. I know that some of you make things much more period-appropriately than I do. I admire that. I love to hear about it. And I enjoy seeing all of the research that you each present. I hope that by reading this Tribe, my Faire-wear becomes a bit more authentic.
For fun: costumerating.com -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 7:05 PMDeena, no controversy at all from you! I was bitching at poor Howard. Bad me. And I point at the other fab thread which Krillgar started next door which is rocking the authenticity nerd scale off the chart. Go check it out. Stuffed real pig's tails being worn as head ornaments. You will love it!!!!! It's geekalicious. -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 8:52 PMSorry, I didn't mean to create controversy either, just point out a difference with stuff made with modern materials and methods. I obviously used a wrong term. And modern methods can get impressive results, like this:
www.ninyamikhaila.com/galleri...1578.htm
I think Kimiko's right in that "authentic" in its strictest sense means the originals, in the same way one sees an authentic Picasso. Perhaps "authentic in appearance" would be a better term?
Noel, if I ever need a ruff, I know who to call!
H -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Fri, October 2, 2009 - 7:24 AMGentleman = Howard.
Howard, you're one of the few folks we can tease (just a bit) and know that you'll take it in the spirit in which is was meant.
And ya betta call me! I sent Deena my "how-to" packet which I used for the class. She seemed to like it. If you'd like to see the sillyness, I'd be happy to send you one. It's kind of fun.
And this kind of polite, measured controvery (and we should all say it "con-trah-verse-y," with the accent on the scend sy-lah-bil,same drill, just for Brit fun) is what makes Tribes the go-to spot for interesting discussion of weird topics. IMHO.
And did you get to experience the unalloyed pure geekness of the museum post started by Krillgar? You will so appreciate it's crunchy nerdiness.
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Fri, October 2, 2009 - 10:11 AMYay!! I have been pondering where and when I was told thread got "old"...and broke more easily. All of this thread has been kept in a cool dark place so it should be just fine. I am basically a frugal person and so have been struggling with throwing it out....
I love this tribe group......who knew a question about thread would spark such a discussion? Thanks all!!! -
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Re: slightly ot, thread
Fri, October 2, 2009 - 3:16 PMYou were probably told that thread got old by someone working in a fabric store, trying to sell you more thread. That was certainly when I first heard about thread deteriorating with time. And some of it does. But certainly not all of it.
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