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Pictures from the 'portraits gallery' of the Kunsthistorisches Museum. Yes, they are continental (although there is at least one shot of Liz in here so far!), but I love them anyway. I have seen images of this wall many times, but "racaire" is the first person I know who has taken the time to photograph ALL the minature images on this wall and then webbed those images for others to look through.
www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/
Don't blame me if you spend the rest of the day scrolling through these!
www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/
Don't blame me if you spend the rest of the day scrolling through these!
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 10:14 AMThe "Liz" image I was talking about: www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/ -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 10:57 AMOh, Krillgar, you are my Sweet Krustacean of Love! Damn you feelers. Now I won't get any work done. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 11:16 AM*points at self* Evil incarnate! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 11:37 AMI do. I do blame you. Fifteen lashes with an ell of handmade silver lace. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 11:50 AMOnly if I get to keep that lace when you're done!
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 11:52 AMFile this one under, "I wouldn't have believed it, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes": www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/
Seriously? At least tell me she is rockin' out too some Dokken under those ear pieces...
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 11:57 AMGiven the presence of false hair braids (Zopfe) in the German inventories of this period, I am going to guess that the lighter colored hair on the side of her head is a ‘switch’ of some kind.
www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/ -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:09 PMMight that not be the effect of long hair becoming lighter (due to exposure to the sun) at the ends? Just a thought....These images are amazing, Krilla. Thank you. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:32 PMI'm guessing it's a false piece made into an ornament. The rest of the hair is swept back so that it would be quite easy to pin a "hair medallion" on over it.
My task completion plan for the day is most unhappy with these pictures. I, on the other hand, am delighted. What a find!!!
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:48 PMI thought the same thing Noel, but false hair was pretty popular (and in that same shade - orangey red). Makes you wonder if there was a market in the 'burbs for buying girls hair and then bleaching it out for falls. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 2:06 PMI studied this quite a few years ago but can't remember where I got my information. From what I recall, there was definitely a market for real hair which was used for expensive wigs, but Italian or Spanish dark hair were most sought after as they were coarser and thus held up better under the rigors of wigmaking. A quick online search revealed this (with no source cited): "[Titian popularized reddish-blonde hair.] Venetian women who wanted to achieve the color applied mixtures of alum, sulfur, soda, and rhubarb to their hair and sat in the sun to let it dry." One may assume that the bleaching process would have worked equally well whether the hair was severed or attached to the person.
I believe horse hair and sometimes sheep's wool were used for cheaper wigs. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 2:23 PMI know that the Germans commonly used silk (in a wide variety of colors including green, blue, red and yellow) to make Zopfe, false braids. These are documented in Jutta Zander- Seidel's book, "Textiler Hausrat". The one image provided that gives an idea of what these 'braids' look like when not being worn appears to show narrow tubes (think the size of your thumb) with a short fringe at each end. These look to be about a yard in length. My guess is that the 'fringe' is used to attach the braids to the head, where they are then braided in with the actual hair in order to produce the 'Durer Girl' big braid fashion (or in a number of other 'large hair' combinations).
Sort of like this:
i307.photobucket.com/albums/...ails.jpg
i307.photobucket.com/albums/...raid.jpg
PS: Yes, those are stuffed pig tails in those images. Images courtesy of Myra on the GRC list. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 2:35 PMReal pigtails, fabulous! <picks jaw up off collarbone> Wonder how they got the extensions to stay on without elastics, silk thread slides right off fine hair. Maybe it stayed on long enough to get it braided up and then was held in place by a forest of hairpins? -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 2:41 PMI dunno...I am currently working on some 'hypothetical' Zopfe; when they are done we'll see if I can manage to braid/keep them in my fine (although curly) hair.
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sun, October 4, 2009 - 3:00 PM"Real pigtails, fabulous! <picks jaw up off collarbone> Wonder how they got the extensions to stay on without elastics, silk thread slides right off fine hair. Maybe it stayed on long enough to get it braided up and then was held in place by a forest of hairpins?"
Remember, they didn't compulsively wash their hair every day, or even every week, but instead combed it over and over every night moving the oils and such down and through the hair. That is, their hair wasn't as slick and slippery as ours tends to be, and pins and even thread would have a better grip.
You can do this yourself if you're willing to stop washing your hair and just rinse it now and then with an herbal infusion. Of course your hair also has to be pretty long for this to work. No, I haven't tried it myself, but one of the guys on H-Costume did and gave us regular updates. Haven't heard from him on list for awhile, but it was a fascinating experiment several years ago.
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 2:49 PMAnother example of false hair (little more obvious this time): www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 12:57 PM*gasp*
Thank you. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:47 PMDon't thank me, log on with a Flickr account and thank racaire! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:50 PMGood point!
Done : )
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:19 PMoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:20 PMCRAP!! I'm hooked!
Do you have any idea what battle is depicted in the first images??
There is some really great soldiers clothing in there which, I'm really enjoying but, I would like to know who or what is going on.
Oh! also the majority of the guys depicted all have their swords on their right hip which infers they would be drawing with their left hands. So either this is the largest gathering of left-handed soldiers or...................uhm yeah got nothing except for the fact that you can draw from your right hip with your right hand but,,,,,,uhm....yeah. :)
Thanks for the link it's full of freaking awesomeness!! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:23 PMMaybe the photo is reversed?
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 1:46 PMThat is Charles V’s battle against Barbarosa: The images are reversed because these are the ‘cartoon sketches’ for the final tapestries. As these were created ‘in mirror’ to be put on the back of the eventual tapestry backing as a guide, everyone ends up left handed.
www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/
www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/
Use the “All Sizes” buttons over the main images to zoom in for readable text! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 3:03 PM
ah thanks! I did'nt see those two pics when I initially starting going through them.
Sweeeeeeeeettttttttt!!! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 3:12 PMOkay, if Howard is reading this, I think this comes under the heading of an Authenticy Geek Lurv Fest. This is about as dorked out and academic as it can get, and I don't think I've seen the word Faire used once in this string.
I'm sorry, authenticity does indeed seem to push a button for all of us weirdos. That bit between Pax and Krillgar regarding mirror imaging/cartoon/tapestry just made my heart go pitter pat. Sheer authenticity geek perfection as I've come to expect it from my fellow freaks.
Howard, are you watching this???? LOL. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 3:14 PMJust finished re-reading the whole thread. No, we're not concerned about authenticity. No, not at all....... -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 7:21 AM*giggle* No lie Noel, I'm just looking for historical evidence of pickles in women's bodices so I can get away with it at my next event.... *wink*
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 3:07 PMAny German speakers out there? It seems this plate gives information on the image collection:
www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/ -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 3:57 PMI don't read enough German to translate, but I think this is the gist of it. It's the precis for a 2004 lecture on the collection given by Karl Schutz, Director of the Art Gallery and Deputy Director General of the Kunsthistorisches Museum. Translation courtesy of Google.
"The Portrait Collection of Archduke Ferdinand II of Tyrol
Archduke Ferdinand II (1529 - 1595), who resided since 1567, Innsbruck, Ambras Castle was build for his art collection, presented in the last twenty years of his life, a collection of approximately 1000 portraits of celebrities of the past and his own time. To a series of portraits from a later period increased, the collection is now exhibited in the coin gallery of the KHM in Vienna. It is the largest of all surviving collections of portrait of this period. All the portraits are of the same size and have about postcard size, as Ferdinand II placed great emphasis on the greatest possible uniformity in the collection. Characteristic of the collection is the combination of portraits of "uomini illustri" going back essentially to the portrait photographs of Paolo Giovio with traditional dynastic series, which were originally handed down mostly in the form of family trees. So goes the largest single group, the portraits of the Habsburg Rudolf I declined since, to a large, commissioned by Emperor Maximilian I prepared pedigree. For more extensive series are the portraits of the Gonzaga - Archduke Ferdinand II was married in a second marriage with a princess of the house Gonzaga - or the portraits of the dukes of Saxony, which originate from Lucas Cranach the Younger. " -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 4:08 PM"So goes the largest single group, the portraits of the Habsburg Rudolf I declined since, to a large, commissioned by Emperor Maximilian I prepared pedigree."
Yes, that made no sense, sorry - LOL! I think the original sentence actually translates to, "Thus it is with the largest single group, the portraits of the Hapsburgs since Rudolf I, commissioned by Emperor Maximilian I to show his family tree." -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 4:28 PMThat makes sense, thank you!
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Fri, October 2, 2009 - 3:54 PM
When I was first looking at these I kept thinking WOW! there sure are a lot of the Famiglia Gonzaga in this collection!?
And now we know why :) -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Fri, October 2, 2009 - 6:43 PMIndeed. :)
Unfortunately, it also suddenly makes me wonder about the verifiability of costume details in retrospective portraits, especially where there is a hundred years or more between the lifetime of the original and the date of the painting. Anyone know anything about that? -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Fri, October 2, 2009 - 8:08 PMWhen looking at such images, you have to take them with a big salt lick, and compare them to images actually dated to the period. Sometimes they are good copies of originals, and sometimes they have details that make you wonder what was really going on, just like any copies. Some may end up with certain contemporary styling or details from the later time period. This is why the larger number of images to compare of a certain period and location, the better the understanding of the overall results. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Fri, October 2, 2009 - 10:29 PMDetails of clothing are one way of dating a manuscript, as well. This is because we all tend to portray people dressed in something we find currently appealing. Movies of historical subjects are a great example of this. (Notice how movies made during the 40s and 50s differ from Elizabeth or The Tudors.)
Sorry. Had to inject my own bit of nerd into this. I actually wrote a paper on dating medieval manuscripts, once upon a time. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sat, October 3, 2009 - 6:08 AMOkay, I know we're all PC here, but not a mention of the Gonzales clan? Every costume approver's nightmare? I would love to cobble together my very own Elizabethan "werewolf" outfit, period accurate to a hair (sorry), and show up for costume approval at St. George. That'd fix 'em......LOL. I just wonder what they spoke in 16th centurey Tenerife?
yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/book.asp -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sat, October 3, 2009 - 7:07 AMOn the museum and it's collections. Pax, be sure to check out the armour section. Appears that the portraits we're looking at are part of the wunderkammer genre, and are not treated as part of the larger portrait gallery concept. Hence Vlad and the Gonzales clan. Amazing stuff. Well worth poking at.
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sat, October 3, 2009 - 9:49 AMOr Delaroche's astonishing "Death of Elizabeth I," painted in 1828. [upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...eth.jpg]
The difficulty I have is not with paintings whose date is known, but those for which only the approximate date of the subject is known. Some of these are modeled on earlier paintings, sculptures, or even tapestries of the subjects. Sometimes the date of the painting can be approximated, as with the miniature of Castruccio Castracani (1281-1328) in the collection we've been discussing [www.flickr.com/photos/rac...42215251/], which is a Mannerist portrait based on an earlier fresco from Pisa [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...anto.jpg]. But it does all remind me how tenuous a branch it is to climb out on, basing historical costumes on portraits without having the full provenance of the painting. Not that I have a better solution, and some of the details can be so tempting! ;p -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sat, October 3, 2009 - 10:51 AMI have to admit that open-necked surcoats tempt me no end. Frieda says they are too Italian, though, and since I am not Italian, that limits me to the buttoned up to the chin look. *sigh*
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 11:42 AMMy translation, if that helps:
Archduke Ferdinand II’s Portrait Collection from Tirol
Archduke Ferdinand II (1529-1595) resided in Innsbruck from 1567 on and had Ambras Castle expanded for his art collection. In the last 20 years of his life, he amassed a collection of approximately 1,000 portraits of celebrities of the past .
This is the most complete collection of portraits done at that time. All the portraits are the same size, about the size of a postcard. It was important to Ferdinand II the collection be as uniform as possible, so he provided nearby palaces examples of the dimensions to be used for the pictures. Also, the portraits were to be painted in oil on paper for ease of transport and the name of the subject was to be painted on the front.
It was also very important to Ferdinand II that the likeness be as exact as possible. Thus, the appearance of these contemporary celebrities are generally portrayed reliably. Archduke Ferdinand II was in his second marriage to a princess from the house of Gonzaga. We can, therefore, count on not only authentic rendering but perhaps even lifelike rendering of his contemporary Habsburg kinsmen as well as close relatives like the Gonzagas. It can be expected that the further back the lives of those portraited, the less accurate the likeness.
Collecting portraits of famous people was an invention of the Renaissance. The Italian humanist Paolo Giovio started the most famous such collections and named it “Musaeum.” Copies of those portraits in his collection can be found in Ferdinand II’s collection. The second source was portraits of the dominant families, for the most part originally handed down in the form of family trees. Thus, the largest unified group, the Habsburger portraits since Rudolf I, can be traced back to one huge family tree commission by Kaiser Maximilian I. Further extensive rows consist of the Gonzaga portraits and the portraits of the Duke of Saxony by Lucas Cranach the younger.
Incomplete at Ferdinand II’s death, this collection has only been moderately expanded by later portraits, mostly recognizable by their smaller format. The portraits were kept in storage and never exhibited at Ambras Castle. Only with the transfer to Vienna did the Ambras collection get unified (framed?) during Napoleon’s reign. The old collection has been retained in the Muenzkabinett since the construction of the Art History Museum. The portrait groups are arranged by country. Following members of the noble families are the socalled “celebrities,” such as military leaders, artists, poets, law scholars, and philosophers. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 1:08 PMCarol, that's fantastic, thank you! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 2:36 PMQuite welcome - felt good to stretch my translation legs. Let me know if anything doesn't make sense and I can take another look. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 3:36 PMLetting me know you can translate from German *is* very dangerous....*thumbs through copy of the Textiler Hausrat for sections not yet translated* -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 3:49 PMLearned most of my vocab at University studying linguistics and literature, so kinda hard up on the textile/stitching/drafting terms, but I can give it a shot. What ELSE have I got to do in my unemployment?! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 4:12 PMReally? Wow...that answer caught me totally unprepared! *grin* Let me see what I can do about getting some stuff together... -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 4:23 PMCarol, you rule!!!!!! I think we've all won our geek medals. And (hint, hint) wait until you see what E-Beetle has found with her dainty spinerettes! Your worlds will be rocked.
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 1:32 PMMany thanks for the translation!
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 1, 2009 - 3:33 PMI am guessing that they are holding song books and eating some version of “snow”. I love the stack of discarded musical instruments in the background…
www.flickr.com/photos/rac...3342215251/
Recipe for ‘snow’ here: www.godecookery.com/engrec/engrec22.html -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 12:25 PMThis is wonderful! Many thanks for the lady who took and then downloaded all of them, and to hsifeng, who posted the link.
The tapestry cartoon is especially interesting. A welcome image from the time without the heavy coats common to portraits that obscure most details of what's worn beneath.
Since the image was drawn in the 1540s of an event the artist witnessed a decade earlier, it probably shows elements of what was worn at that battle combined with current style a decade following. You can see the transition from long hose to breeches, and the jerkins are very similar to examples found in the 1545 wreck of Mary Rose, including the side openings on a few. Its neat that some of them have longer fronts than backs, serving a function similar to an apron in protecting the wearer during battle. Some of the Mary Rose jerkins have the same detail.
Someone here had a question about the openings on the brocade jerkin worn by the Earl of Surrey in a painting from the same period - it would likely have been cut much like the side opening examples shown in the tapestry cartoon.
The small portraits are fascinating. The image of Drake is clearly taken from an popular engraving made late in his life, when he was getting a little round. Its fascinating how the court artist interpreted the black and white engraving into color - another white slashed silk doublet.
In fact the majority of colors for the portraits of contemporary people show black, white and cream. Its a refined, good looking style. The jerkins are excellent, too, some look to be cream leather, others silk, one in buff leather, and all of them very well fitted and fastened at the neck. Note the doublet and jerkin shoulder wings are very small.
Its interesting that red and green is shown mostly on children or younger men. One of the red ones (No. 125) is a brocade cassock.
The Valckenborch is interesting, neat to see such a good clear image finally. Sporting and outdoor clothes in contrast to the portraits - a lot of black and white, with a mix of buff and tawny now. Since the painting represents the month of May, we have a few people deliberately dressed by the artist in spring green. The allegory is very effective.
The green man in the foreground has an extreme suit, yet done remarkably well. He has a green velvet jerkin with hanging sleeves and matching breeches, worn with a green silk doublet, green cloth or silk cloak and hat. White shoes of course, but a black leather belt, as a white belt would be too strong and ruin the balance.
The silk satin doublet would likely have gold thread buttons similar to the gold lace used to trim the doublet seams, but otherwise very plain, to fit underneath the jerkin. The velvet jerkin and breeches are obviously made up as a set (in fact the entire suit - if it existed at all, and the man does appear to be a portrait of someone the artist was careful to include - was made up this way) and have perhaps gold metal buttons with lace.
Jerkins with hanging sleeves were fashionable in late 16th c Northern Europe, but seem to be a hallmark of the freer spirits rather than conservatives.
The thing that gets me is that this outrageous green man suit is actually very nicely and tastefully done. The tailors knew where to trim and where not to, and where to leave the material blank. They knew that the color and material was more than enough to work and this is what always impresses me about their eye and sense of the world.
H
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 12:54 PMSee, Howard, we can dork out as required. Wait until you find out about Lavinia Fontana's Tognina portrait which cross-references a 1590s work by Fontana which was sold in June, 2009, by Philip Mould. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 1:01 PMNoel, I'd be happy if I never saw another snood patrol . . sigh.
I'm posting an image by Pieter Bast showing jerkins with hanging sleeves on a bunch of Amsterdam rakes in 1599. Some reformation, eh?
H -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 8:37 AMSnood patrol? Yikes. Is that like codpiece check? I shudder to think! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 11:32 AMA snood patrol is the near-universal use of snoods by reenactors, regardless of the period portrayed.
The only accurate use of snoods in reenactment is in the portrayal of women working at aircraft assembly plants in WWII. There's a group in Tulsa that can turn out a Douglas B-24 Liberator in three days, with another in Kansas City interpreting B-25 Mitchell construction.
Lipstick and a rivet gun. My kind of gal.
H -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 5:58 PMBut snoods are fun and easy to make, and a lot of people like the look, so we get snoods on everyone at Faire. A caul is, of course, more appropriate. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 6:54 PMHi Deena,
Thats an excellent summary. They are probably practical for people with modern hairstyles too, or anyone who has pack kids, a husband and a van every weekend when working one of those events.
I don't know much about women's hairdos, but it seems cauls were worn by middle and upper class, and caps by everyday folk. Cauls look very formidable, but caps are very simple and to me, just as elegant.
www.ninyamikhaila.com/galleri...69-2.htm
www.tudorgroup.co.uk/Galleri...s_5.html
www.ninyamikhaila.com/galleri...1569.htm
www.tudorgroup.co.uk/Galleri..._16.html
www.tudorgroup.co.uk/Galleri...s_7.html
I wonder if there is a way to combine the practicality of a snood by disguising it under a cap. It takes care of the hair and gives the period appearance - and caps are very simple to make (snoods look very formidable to me - I'd tangle one in ten seconds).
Here is a link to a blog on medieval hair nets, maybe it would be interesting to some of the folks here.
togs-from-bogs.blogspot.com/2009....html
Back to paintings. Noel, that painting you mentioned sounds very interesting.
H
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 4:50 PMI love that post on the golden hair net; a lot of Landsknecht reenactors end up wearing a 'version' of these items (based on seeing them in portraits of Germans - *rich Germans*) without having a firm grip on just how much these dainty little bits would have cost to produce. I wrote up a blog about this at one point entitled, “Excuse Me, But You Seem To Have A Ferrari On Your Head…”
*giggle* -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 7:59 PMLink, please. That needs wider distribution! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 10:35 AM -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:57 PMWow, that little thing is both netted and embroidered! It's a car price either way, but with the added embroidery, no wonder it's a Ferrari! -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 12:49 PMOK, and not to whine, but none of the golden cauls I've seen aren't anythng like that much work--net *plus* embroidery. Plus naturally, persona-wise, some of them at least are only "venice gold" so the amount of real precious metal would be a good deal less. And, to be frank, some of it is booty--in other words, it's stolen. So wearing a Ferrari and so casually? Well hell, why not. It's not like you paid for it!
Life is nasty, brutish, and short! Might as well be well dressed! :-) -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 2:50 PM
Maggie said; "And, to be frank, some of it is booty--in other words, it's stolen. So wearing a Ferrari and so casually? Well hell, why not. It's not like you paid for it! "
This makes me wonder how many of the "camp-followers", those women depicted in various drawings, paintings etc. are shown with this kind of "booty" especially wearing it. I've seen some artwork with a bag or two of loot by some people but never really anyone being depicted as wearing something as expensive as that caul.
So based upon research how likely would it really be that these campfollowers would wear these rich clothes etc. instead of selling them off to the nearest haberdasher when the opportunity presented itself to get some cold hard cash?? -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Fri, October 16, 2009 - 11:56 AMYeah, I agree. I just haven't seen images of decked-out camp followers.
Now, some of the women in the local German group are clearly dressed as upper-class, and that is a different matter. But still, would you be wearing the Ferrari from your portrait out at the county fair in a foreign land you were visiting? I do (LOL!) but should I? -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Fri, October 16, 2009 - 3:22 PM<would you be wearing the Ferrari from your portrait out at the county fair in a foreign land you were visiting?>
What better way to assert your superiority over the local rabble? How else will they know you're above their social level even if you *can't* speak their stupid language? ;) -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sat, October 17, 2009 - 9:18 PMOh good answer!
No, technically, you probably shouldn't. I've looked at a lot of pictures of camp women (there are more than you'd think), and not one was wearing a gold chain or anything that looked flashy. Strictly work clothes. The men, though... -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 12:00 PMDon't tell me... like peacocks and peahens, right? Why do the men in that time period get all the fun. {pout} -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 1:32 PMPart of that has to do with the behavioral conditions of the time. Men were allowed to be predators, women were supposed to be virginal on their wedding nights and faithful to their husbands after marriage. It's much easier to stay out of trouble if no one notices you. And men were the courtiers, the business owners, the heads of household. They needed to display their wealth and success. Women needed to get through the practicalities of the day: supervising their households, tending their children, cooking, and cleaning. They worked and worked hard, but they were less in the public eye as they did so. -
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 2:54 PMThat's it exactly. And in a military camp, the women are doing all the same practical things, plus selling food and other wares, trying to keep themselves and their children safe among rough-living men, all while being prepared to pack up and *walk* to the next camp at a moment's notice.
But hey, it's a fair day! Flash and dazzle is part of the show. And the ostrich plumes are in the woodcuts!
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 4:30 PMI still haven't seen anything like a gold caul on a soldier. Officers? Kriegherr? Maybe (although the images I am thinking of aren't associated with the military in any way). Soldiers - no.
Same goes for the rampant use of gold chains.
I get that people like it, I just see it done a LOT more than appears to be historically justified.
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sun, October 11, 2009 - 2:22 AMHoward, the term snood is a broad one that goes back to the early medieval period, so "The only accurate use of snoods in reenactment is in the portrayal of women working at aircraft assembly plants in WWII" is, I think, not what you intended to say. There are several different kinds of snoods through history, including the Scottish wide hair ribbon worn by unmarried women, and what in the early modern period is termed a caul.
My first encounter with the word was Alcott's 1868 American novel Little Women where the snoods are mentioned several times, once described as being made of velvet. From the description, in shape, they were much like what fair women wear and some may well have been netted. I will leave that question to the Dickens' folks who are far ahead of me in nineteenth-century research.
I am also seeing some indications that the WWII use was a revival from an earlier period.
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sun, October 11, 2009 - 11:46 AMAlso, since netted cauls were worn, though lined, the crocheted snood gives a similar look. Crochet was only practiced by nuns in the 16th century, as far as I can tell. But a knitted or tatted cap or caul really ought to be period, as women did practice those crafts. We don't see them in portraits, though. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 1:02 PMThe snoods that so many wear, which hold a bunch of loose hair sitting on the shoulders, just do not look Elizabethan. A caul should be small and generally keep the hair up off the back of the neck. It does do wonders for keeping the hair clean whether hidden under a veil or visible under a hat. The back part of any working class woman's cap (like all the samples in the links) performs the same function by keeping the hair (which has already been dressed in braids or whatever) close and tidy. If I could have droopy Victorian snoods banned fro Renaissance faires, I really would.
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Re: Kunsthistorisches Museum - Miniature Portrait Gallery *all shots*
Sun, October 11, 2009 - 12:09 PMIndeed, the term apparently dates to the 8th century.
You're right that they were also worn in the 1860s, and also that the WWII style may have been inspired by the past - in fact, a big technicolor Civil War epic in 1939, along with a trend towards longer hair, seems to have greatly spurred its revival in the 1940s. Of course the use of a style in later periods does not necessarily support its use in an earlier one, or that the style would have the same form.
H
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