Tying one on, e.g. sleeves, revisited

I usually do 2 rings about an inch away from the crest of the shoulder on the front side and back side respectively, and then about 2 inches dwon from those and call it good. In Janet Arnold's patterns Of Fashion there are doublets that have lace on sleeves that a strip with hand worked eyelet holes is sewn into the armsceye of the doublet just under the wing with corresponding lacing holes worked into the head of the sleeve...thats getting a bit aggressively perio-o-centric unless you really wanna go whole hog....in which case rock on!

I find it easier to have the ties stitched to the sleeve and feed them through the rings in the doublet.....they seem to come untied less frequently that way than when the rings are in the sleeve and the tie is stitched into the doublet....no clue why...sure it has something to do with weight of sleeve+movement/friction=untieing....but I am not one of those "physics people" and just run with the imperical data without questioning it in this case...grins.

OK...similar line of questioning. How about fastening for open hanging sleeves? I've settled on using hooks & eyes, but the placement is confounding me. How far apart should they be spaced? And should I double up at the wrist?

Becky/Beatrix

Here's thing -

I've read about sleeves being simply pinned to the bodice at the shoulder, but maybe this is largely Italian or Flemish.
What's the likelihood that Elizabethans might have done the same?

Just in case, here are some pins that could be period-passable -
jas-townsend.com/product_info.php

As Joel says, the period method was a lacing strip inside both the top edge of the sleeve and the armshole, (see Janet Arnold) but I've never had the patience for that. I use hooks/eyes so tthere's nothing to show. It also allows you to use simple stuffed no shoulder treatment at all and make it look as if the sleeve is sewn in. Hooks go on the sleeve, and round-type eyes go in the armhole. I use either 5 or 7 pairs, starting with 1 at the center top, then 2" or 2.5" apart down the front and back. Don't use the big coat hooks/eyes, of course, or they'll lift right out. They go on (and come off) so fast, they're a total dream, and they're utterly invisible. Yes this is for both men and women.

When I used ribbon points, it was pretty much what you desccribed. I doubled an 18" length of 1/4" grosgrain ribbon (giving a pair of 9" ties, with aiglets) anchored to the sleeve head, that laced through a ribbon loop in the armhole. Still 2" or 2.5" apart. Tied up nicely into a demure little bow that mostly you couldn't see at all. And when the sleeves were off, you couldn't see the loops.

Mind you, in this weather (supposed to be 110 today) all this sewing talk is just theoretical. I can hardly bear to look at fabric in the summer, much less sit down in the hottest corner of the apartment to sew.

A related question, as long as I have all my experts handy -

How do multiple sleeves work? By this, I mean when there appear to be more than one torso garment such as a doublet and a jerkin (which might each have their own shoulder treatment) or a doublet and second coat (such as the gorgeous one at tribes.tribe.net/elizabeth...050a9feda) -

how do you handle all the bulk?
and would both sets of sleeves have to be sewn in, or what?

So, I don't mean to nitpick... much.

But just because there's no extant (or otherwise) evidence to the contrary, does all of the above mean that the English *never* used pins to attach sleeves?