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Dutch Cloak

topic posted Thu, January 7, 2010 - 11:29 AM by  Rydell
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I want one of these:
www.employees.org/~cathy/im..._cloak.jpg

When looking for a pattern, I found this:
katerina.purplefiles.net/Dafyd...1.html

Anybody know of any commercially available patterns?
posted by:
Rydell
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: Dutch Cloak

    Thu, January 7, 2010 - 11:45 AM
    For my husband's schaub, we actually used the Jedi robe pattern. I know, it sounds awful, but look at the shape of the garment. It doesn't require that much alteration.
  • Re: Dutch Cloak

    Mon, January 11, 2010 - 5:17 PM
    Hmmmmmm, in looking over the links etc, I really think you won't get the look you want unless you do exactly what Katerina did and follow the original layout. That is going to give you that standing collar and sweep of the coat like none of the modern-cut layouts will. She's a very nice and helpful woman if you don't know her already. I'd be happy to pass your info along if you'd like to contact her about the coat. :-)
    • Re: Dutch Cloak

      Wed, January 13, 2010 - 9:06 AM
      ditto what Alyxx says.

      I couldn't understand why you'd want a commercial pattern when one of your links IS a pattern, and a better and freer one at that...
      I'd like to see it in wool though, since it seems to drape less voluptuously in the polycotton damask than it does in pictures of Coligny et al.
      • Re: Dutch Cloak

        Wed, January 13, 2010 - 10:18 AM
        Wool is the plan. I don't yet trust myself to draft patterns, I guess
        • Re: Dutch Cloak

          Wed, January 13, 2010 - 11:22 AM
          I know what you mean, patterning can always seem daunting, and especially when it is a garment you haven't done before. In this case, it seems like you might be able to figure out a ratio to scale up the original to aprox 'you sized' - then it is a matter of mock-ups to get the final fit. Thankfully the piece isn't overly fitted!
        • Re: Dutch Cloak

          Wed, January 13, 2010 - 11:26 AM
          Is there someone in you guild or area that does draft patterns? They might be able to create the pattern for you to use.
        • Re: Dutch Cloak

          Thu, January 14, 2010 - 11:15 AM
          This is the place to start, man. It's a super simple pattern, few measurements, little fitting, no need for the garment to be supportive...

          Look at the picture of the pieces laid out, measure yourself in the places those pieces will go, spread some cheap muslin on a big table, get out your yardsticks and protractor and go for it!

          We're pulling for you, you can do this. We know you haz teh smrt.

          When you get stuck, pop in here and ask specific questions, we'll keep you going.

          • Re: Dutch Cloak

            Thu, January 14, 2010 - 11:20 AM
            I'm a bit intimidated by the collar. I really want the line in the illustration of the three men. Anybody have advice on achieving that?
            • Re: Dutch Cloak

              Thu, January 14, 2010 - 11:41 AM
              Start with a mock-up in muslin of the cloak section of the pattern as demonstrated in the San Lorenzo in the Medici Crypt document. If the amount of fabric in the 'cloak' is too big, remove volumn (*in a 'trianglar' shape - not a rectangle!) from the CF (center-front), CB (center-back) and side seams. I recommmend doing this by pinning the fabric - not cutting it out! - so that you can fiddle with the amount removed until you get what you want.
              • Re: Dutch Cloak

                Thu, January 14, 2010 - 11:42 AM
                Rydell - I just realized you may have meant the line of the collar. My answer was in reference to your previous statment about the fullness of the overall garment.
                • Re: Dutch Cloak

                  Thu, January 14, 2010 - 11:47 AM
                  Still helpful.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Dutch Cloak

                    Thu, January 14, 2010 - 3:15 PM
                    As Kimiko's message indirectly indicates - it seems unlikely to me that the collar is 'of a piece' with the body of the garment; therefore a separate piece of muslin can be used with evenly distributed darts (pinned in place, I recommend starting at CB and working your way out evenly on each side from there) will yield a final pattern piece that is sized to your needs. I would guess that this piece of the garment was probably 'reinforced' with stiffening fabric and pad stitching in the original pieces.

                    It also seems that the collar on the Coligny version either: a) does not close at the CF, ending just short of the edge of the front edge of the body of the garment (thus creating the 'notch' seen in the fall back of the collar and garment body seen in the middle of the image here www.herodote.net/Images/Co...tilly.jpg) or b) the collar is fitted to the neck measurement, but the body of the coat/cloak is extended beyond the necessary neck size to create the same notch described above.

                    The little 'picadills' treatment at the top of the collar is a 'trial and error' sort of piece, adjusting in height and width of the 'slashes' in order to get a good representation of the original image.
            • Re: Dutch Cloak

              Thu, January 14, 2010 - 2:41 PM
              You do the same thing ... play with the muslin and pins. Attach a small piece of material at least a few inches longer than the length of your collar, and several inches wide. Pin around the neck (or someone can pin this around your neck) over your doublet collar (so you should probably wear your doublet at least). Then start pinching little darts into the collar to shape it around your neck, and into the shape you want. Fiddle as much as you want, pinning and pinning little darts as needed.

              Once you've created the shape you are going for (or close enough), the final pinned shape is now your pattern (you only need half the pattern you created, unless one side is very different than the other side). Mark with a marker at each pinned shape (both sides) so you can see its actual shape once you remove the pins. Some portions may have a curve, so you may need to make multiple pieces and sew them together. Some pieces will have no curves, so you can just tape those two pieces into one longer piece. Transfer to paper, and add seam allowances all around. Then cut out and sew up a mockup to make sure the pattern works for you. Then you will be confident your final actual piece is going to fit, and look the way you want.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Dutch Cloak

                Thu, January 14, 2010 - 4:19 PM
                Its hard to get a simpler pattern that this and you will do a great job.

                Wool cloth is a good choice, it will give the necessary body for the cloak to fall right. Line in it colored linen if you wish, or use silk satin. Its generally better to use real linen or silk than artificial mixes of rayon, etc. which will not work correctly. Many fine cloaks had linen linings.

                One word of advice - interline the collar with layers of linen pad stitched together, as was done then. This will give the stiffness you want for the collar to look right. Don't use wool felt, it will not perform the same way.

                Have fun,
                H

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