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Looking for an inexpensive, reliable online source for elizabethan -reign style pewter buttons?
Working on a black wool doublet and pewter would look so snazzy! Actually I'm just cutting out the fabric, the boyfriend is going to sew it up by hand. Aren't men who can sew just so sexy?
Mrrow.
Working on a black wool doublet and pewter would look so snazzy! Actually I'm just cutting out the fabric, the boyfriend is going to sew it up by hand. Aren't men who can sew just so sexy?
Mrrow.
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 1:00 AMthe Tudor Tailor web site is the only one I know of.
www.tudortailor.com/ -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 10:18 PMOoh the Tudor Tailor ones are so preety though!
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 10:40 AMLots of U.S. artisans make pewter buttons. Google on "pewter buttons" and look around. I don't use them so I have no one in particular to recommend, but I know they're out there!
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 11:40 AMThese folks have a good many options. They are not just for Tudor years though. You will have to look through.
I've gotten many good styles from them over the years,
www.tlbarnes.com/default.asp
~Val
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 12:47 PMWell, guess what - pewter buttons were somewhat rare at the time, and a c. 1560 leather jerkin in the Museum of London collection is one of the few documented examples. Most were gold, silver or brass, or alternately, thread worked over a wooden core, or cloth ball type.
With that said, pewter can be a substitute for silver buttons, but be careful - they are heavy monsters and tend to clank and hang. The originals on the MoL jerkin have their shanks worked through holes in the leather, then held in place by a leather thong running along the inside edge of the jerkin. This is not something you might be able to do in a cloth garment.
If you want to use pewter, find a style that is not so large and heavy - then sew it on firmly, wrapping the thread around the base into a stalk to keep it steady. Also, be sure to file down any rough edges of the castings beforehand, as the metal will cut away the threads.
The Tudor Tailor site has several versions, most of which are modern pewter copies of what were originally fabric and thread buttons. They also have a few copied from actual pewter buttons - and the most appropriate for a 16th c. doublet is their "common ball" and " flower dome." The "thread cone"' is copied from the MoL leather jerkin but impractical to use on a doublet. The "piecrust" and "thread cross" buttons are medieval and way too early.
This site might help, as it shows examples of actual 16th c. metal buttons found in situ in Florida. Note that they are primarily brass, and somewhat small, again because of the weight. There is also a 17th century pewter example, and a 16th c. ladies' button of glass.
www.artifacts.org/conquest.htm
Also, be aware that pewter buttons can tarnish the cloth around them.
Hope this helps,
H
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 1:22 PMBefore sewing them on your dublet perhaps a nice touch of clear fingernail polish on the eyelet, stem and underside of the button would help.
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 1:49 PMyou know.. putting precious buttons on the way the MoL buttons have been put on is pretty smart.. That way they can be easily removed for when the garment is cleaned. You could also button on the buttons.. sew buttons together with their shanks butted & create buttonholes.. dunno if that's historicaly accurate.. but it's an idea.
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 10:15 PMOoh! Thank you for the most indepth info.
I had seen the pweter buttons on the leather jerkin in Pof, which is what inspired me. Though I was primarily thinking that pewter butons would be kinder to my modern wallet rather than brass ones. I may just settle for period-looking metal buttons in a brass or silver color, depending on what I find.
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 10:20 PMHmm now I feel inspired(insane?) to make some thread worked buttons...
It's a black wool doublet, and black buttons sound boring on that. Any evidence for colorful(or metallic) thread worked buttons? -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 10:24 PM
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Re: Pewter button source?
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 11:43 PMMy husband's doublet is black velveteen, and it is trimmed in red thread buttons with the tops in a garnet bead. Not sure if a little bead like that is period, but it looked good, and filled in that dimple that is formed at the top of the bead/button.
I don't know if there is evidence for colorful buttons or what. I don't know how easy metallic threads would make into a button, but it might be worth trying, even as an accent. The threads do get put under a lot of stress from friction against the other threads as they are being made, and from being buttoned and unbuttoned. I made mine with cotton pearl thread, and it is a little fuzzy with only a few wearings. I would use silk filament twist if possible to minimize the fraying. Silk buttons on wool would be appropriate I think, since they did like to do tone on tone, with contrasts of shiny vs matte in fabrics and trims.
Might want to look at paintings of doublets to see how they matched or contrasted their buttons.
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Re: Pewter button source?
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 3:14 AMI'm late joining this conversation, but someone recently gave me a great site for pewter buttons. To see full-sized pictures of the buttons themselves, navigate on to the next page.
www.fugawee.com/buttons.htm
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Re: Pewter button source?
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 12:22 PM
Luna,
On metal buttons:
Both gold and silver buttons would be appropriate for a black doublet, on the evidence of period artwork. Gold seems to be more common, and a Moroni portrait sometimes called "Gentle Cavalier" shows a black doublet with gold buttons and gold lace trim. If you use something similar to the examples discussed above, such as a ball shape, etc., you would be pretty safe. Brass would also work, as we have actual brass examples from the 16th c. Florida sites.
The pewter buttons you provided the link to are also good and the sunken wire shank means they will not tend to droop. The faceted shape I have not seen in an original, but perhaps its in keeping with the time.
The buttons Deena posted (thanks for that link, have not seen it before) look really nice for 1750 Lake Champlain, but unfortunately flat faced 18th century buttons are very different from the rounded 16th century examples. However they would be ideal for later reconstructions.
On thread buttons:
Thread buttons were probably the most common type used then (next to cloth ball), and the most underrepresented in modern reconstruction. They were used on every level of garment from posh to scum. They look neat, are cheap to make and not hard to make, although they take time. They can also be as simple or elaborate as you want to make them, and there are several different ways.
There is a demonstration in the Tudor Tailor, and the booklet "Headwear, Footwear and Trimmings" by Robert Morris (Peachy Press) gives several others (be careful here, I'm advised by another eminent British authority that Peachy books have drawbacks, but the button data looks sound). Also, I think a few websites have examples of how to make them. The simplest is just thread wrapped around a wooden bead.
For a black doublet, consider using two colors of thread - black with gold or yellow or silver. The basic button would be black with the gold/silver/yellow thread in patterns as you wish. Very sharp and period.
Kimiko's comment about contrasting finishes like gloss on matt is exactly right - this was very popular and especially with black on black where the various black materials did the work. The black wool doublet and hose in my photo section, from the V&A, shows glossy black buttons contrasting with the (now faded) black wool.
On black doublet finishes and trims:
Most portraits showing black doublets use black on black, or gold trim on black, such as the Moroni portrait. Black was a serious color, worn with gravitas, so the fancy colored linings and trim used on other garments does not show up very often in black examples. Gold or silver is generally the only type of trim considered appropriate (Kimiko's red buttoned doublet is testimony to her verve and aplomb, which I sure don't have).
All told, you can use the silvery pewter buttons, gold buttons or black thread buttons with possible gold or silver thread detailing and have a very fine looking piece of work.
Hope this helps,
H
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Re: Pewter button source?
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 2:02 PMHoward provides most excellent advice.
"Kimiko's red buttoned doublet is testimony to her verve and aplomb, which I sure don't have"
Actually, the doublet was made long before I cared how historically accurate things were, so while it's based on Alcega's patterns, made with many historical methods; it is decorated in gold & silver cord with red lining as fill in of the slashes on the black, along with the red thread buttons. I was more concerned with the decoration (which is more appropriate for Henrician styles in design) than the accuracy of the Elizabethan doublet.
I've also found since then that while my desire for historical accuracy is much greater now, I also want to remain creative in its application. If I were to limit my abilities to what survived in either paintings or extant garments, that would limit my ideas to a very small surviving sample. And what I found in my own research on French hoods, is even when there is a clear pattern of colors and choices of what was common (ie red/pink, black or white only for pastes), at some point one finds grand exceptions to the rules (gold for a possible Queen) as someone wanted something different and special, and broke the conventional rules to do so. From what I've read in writings of the time, tailors made all manner of designs as their clients dictated, to the disgust of someone like Philip Stubbes. This is why my more creative pursuits, although I do prefer to base things more on historical models when possible. But that's me, and my reasons for what I do.
Sorry for taking things off track... -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 4:41 PMThat is absolutely true, and there are some remarkable garments which prove that point. I'm told of a doublet in the V&A reserve collection which is made of three colors of red silk, progressing from dark to light, with the lightest red on the interior lining. Its suggestive of internal richness and the conversations about its being made must have been fascinating.
I'm nowhere near that level, so I think my own project will be pretty boring! The cool part is that we all work in directions which please us and compliment a common interest. I say, lets make Stubbes happy and anger him further.
H -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 6:20 PMI just tried out the thread wrapping technique on a glass bead I had hanging around with some thick perle cotton I had laying around, but I would do it on the real thing with a larger wooden bead and silk thread.
It took a bit of time but it was really fun and the effect is very snazzy. I think I may do this since it will be cheaper. I have some brick red and mustard colored silk but now I'm looking for black. -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 8:35 PMHave fun, and when you are done we want pictures!!
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Re: Pewter button source?
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 7:34 AMThere are a number of different patterns that you can achieve with thread wrapped buttons. Ribs out, ribs in, alternating with ribs exposed (I like this kind with an alternate color on the exposed ribs), tabby, etc. Enjoy finding the one you like most!
i307.photobucket.com/albums/...2183.jpg
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Re: Pewter button source?
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 9:45 AMTammie has a demo on her website with a few different style you may try. She also sells sets of them in her shop. :-)
www.renaissancetailor.com/demos...ns.htm
It's definitely cheaper in materials but not in time. I wish I had the patience and spare time to make more of these. Have fun! -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 11:38 AM"I wish I had the patience and spare time to make more of these."
Oh me too!
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Re: Pewter button source?
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 5:42 PMI got fast enough to make one about every 12-15 minutes, and just took them with me everywhere I went. They fit in a small container, and get rather mindless after awhile. Kinda like knitting. I think most were made during meetings, and in front of the tv, so they ended up getting finished rather quickly. -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 5:51 PMMight as well make good use of that time with something that doesn't distract me from what I'm watching. I did all mine while watching a Dr. Who marathon on DVD. :O)
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Re: Pewter button source?
Thu, June 18, 2009 - 6:01 PMI just made one up last night to see how it goes. Crude little thing, but I'm very proud of it.
It took 15 minutes, using linen thread on a wooden bead. The next one should be (hopefully) better and (hopefully again) faster.
H -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Fri, June 19, 2009 - 9:20 AMThey tend to get smoother and more evenly covered as you go. I made up about three 'test buttons' before I started working on my final versions for my last project. -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Fri, June 19, 2009 - 4:20 PMGood to know. I used 35/2 linen thread from another project, probably a little on the thin side. When the fabric arrives I'll match it up to heavier thread and do some more tests.
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Re: Pewter button source?
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 10:38 PMFound a US source for the UK pewter ball buttons ...
tudorshoppe.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc
Just for future reference in case someone else wants them. -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Sat, July 18, 2009 - 12:10 AMI ordered some of these from them a couple of years ago. They got them to me... eventually. -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Sat, July 18, 2009 - 10:01 AMI bought a whole bunch of them recently and they came within a week! VERY happy with the quality and the swiftness of service.
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Re: Pewter button source?
Mon, July 27, 2009 - 2:59 PMRan across another source. These may be 'too early' period for use in Elizabethan garb:
www.jazwiec.pl/main.php -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Mon, July 27, 2009 - 4:24 PMNice source... and they have basic aglets, too! -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Mon, July 27, 2009 - 4:53 PMThey have all *sorts* of stuff....
*points at self* "Evil source finder*
BTW - Did you notice the sewing kits, chalk-a-block with historical thread reels? -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Mon, July 27, 2009 - 8:47 PMYes, but it seems to me a rather expensive way to buy thread reels, considering how far they would be traveling from. -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Tue, July 28, 2009 - 7:30 AMI'm thinking of picking up a few thread reels from the Spanish Peacock. I'd like to put together a historical sewing kit, and I love Miguel's work. Maybe an awl as well. (His are gorrgeous, they might even make eyelets a pleasure.) -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Tue, July 28, 2009 - 3:28 PMDoes the Spanish Peacock have a web site?
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Re: Pewter button source?
Tue, July 28, 2009 - 2:58 PMThey're also for some reason perpetuating an ancient term I thought we'd stamped out. Points are the ties themselves. Aiglets are the fancy (or plain) metal ends. They're selling aiglets, but calling them points. SIGH! -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Tue, July 28, 2009 - 3:36 PMWell, they *are* dealing with translating their website from Dutch to English - perhaps this is the issue with the error. After all, I have *no* idea what these things are called in Dutch!
Kimiko - have you talked to Rob in Reno about making thread reels? He does lovely work and he's reasonable. I can get you his contact info if you are interested... -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Tue, July 28, 2009 - 4:01 PMIs this the same Rob that you used to date, long ago? If so, I haven't seen him in... well over a decade. If not.. then no in either case. And yes, I would like a contact info, although if I can find a more local woodworker to our area, the better... as I've got a few wooden items I would like made up. -
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Re: Pewter button source?
Tue, July 28, 2009 - 4:59 PMRob works so inexpensively, it might be worth it to have him do the work and then either ship it or meet up with him at an event. He still does go to some (Casa comes to mind). He has a full workshop at his disposal. I will send you his e-mail addy...
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