Evangelicals say faith is now too political

topic posted Sat, May 3, 2008 - 7:25 AM by  Josh
[Chanced on this and thought it worth a glance.]

By RACHEL ZOLL AND ERIC GORSKI, AP Religion Writers Sat May 3, 2:34 AM ET

Conservative Christian leaders who believe the word "evangelical" has lost its religious meaning plan to release a starkly self-critical document saying the movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.
The statement, called "An Evangelical Manifesto," condemns Christians on the right and left for "using faith" to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible, according to a draft of the document obtained Friday by The Associated Press.
"That way faith loses its independence, Christians become `useful idiots' for one political party or another, and the Christian faith becomes an ideology," according to the draft.
The declaration, scheduled to be released Wednesday in Washington, encourages Christians to be politically engaged and uphold teachings such as traditional marriage. But the drafters say evangelicals have often expressed "truth without love," helping create a backlash against religion during a "generation of culture warring."
"All too often we have attacked the evils and injustices of others," they wrote, "while we have condoned our own sins." They argue, "we must reform our own behavior."
The document is the latest chapter in the debate among conservative Christians about their role in public life. Most veteran leaders believe the focus should remain on abortion and marriage, while other evangelicals — especially in the younger generation — are pushing for a broader agenda. The manifesto sides with those seeking a wide-range of concerns beyond "single-issue politics."
Among the signers of the manifesto are Os Guiness, a well-known evangelical author and speaker, and Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary, a leading evangelical school in Pasadena, Calif. Organizers declined to comment until the final document is released.
They say more than 80 evangelicals have signed the statement, although only a few names have been released. A. Larry Ross, spokesman for the authors, said the theologicans and Christian leaders involved are seeking to "go back to the root theological meaning of the term evangelical."
Some champions of traditional culture war issues are not among the supporters.
Richard Land, head of the public policy arm for the Southern Baptist Convention, said through a spokeswoman that he has not seen the document and was not asked to sign it.
James Dobson, the influential founder of Focus on the Family, a Christian group in Colorado Springs, Colo., did not sign the document, said Gary Schneeberger, a Dobson spokesman. Schneeberger would not say whether Dobson had read the manifesto or had been asked to sign on.
Phil Burress, an Ohio activist who networks with national evangelical leaders, said that if high-profile evangelical leaders such as Dobson and Land don't support the document, "it's like throwing a pebble in the ocean" and will carry no weight.
But the drafters hope they can start a movement among evangelicals to reflect and act on the document. "We must find a new understanding of our place in public life," the drafters wrote.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080...l_manifesto


posted by:
Josh
Boca Raton
  • I'm a bit sceptical, I confess. Is this another ploy in the culture wars, or have some of them begun to wake up and see how shamefully they have let themselves be used as pawns to the major economical and political interests? Time will tell. If these people are actually beginning to get honest with themselves and the world, it can only be something good, but I am not yet convinced--though hopeful.

    With love under will,

    Bob, Adastra,
    The Wizzard of Jacksonville
    • Bob, I share your concerns. We'll have to wait and see. It's clear from the article that this isn't a mainstream document (--too few signatories) but if it widens the scope of evangelical concern it will have done some good.

      The younger generation of evangelicals has concerns other than their moms and dads did. They care more about the environment, value diversity, are more open-minded about sex, yearn for a community that attracts rather than condemns outsiders, and see change as a good thing.
      • <The younger generation of evangelicals has concerns other than their moms and dads did. They care more about the environment, value diversity, are more open-minded about sex, yearn for a community that attracts rather than condemns outsiders, and see change as a good thing.>

        I see it more as the rats leaving the sinking ship. Fundamentalist Christianity is not a legitimate religion; it is a cult created by marketing people and funded by both Capitalists who needed a fanatically loyal voter base to push through their political agendas, and a Catholic Church desperate to hold on to its temporal power. It amazes me that so few people realize that the very politicians who pandered to this cult are the same politicians who resisted National Health and tore apart the social safety net while giving their blessings to outsourcing and cheap imports from China. Now that the inevitable economic backlash is starting and the Church members are asking, "what has Jesus done for me lately?" and attendance in Fundie churches are dropping, the PR people who run the Fundie churches are starting to tone down the rhetoric.

        www.kansascity.com/440/story/591296.html

        With the international decline in Arab oil, which will raise oil production costs exorbitantly, and make the automobile obsolete, and the Iraq war and outsourcing dragging the country down into a depression, the PR people are going to have to tone down the rhetoric, and the politicians are going to have to throw a few bones our way, but a change in Fundamentalist rhetoric does not imply any positive changes in America. Gays will be tolerated a little better, and we will have a Nixonian catch-phrase such as "peace with honor" as a smokescreen for the continued war. We might even get something that might resemble a single payer system for our health care, (At least if we look at it in the dark) but Fundamentalism will remain a neocon propaganda tool.
        • >>>>>>I see it more as the rats leaving the sinking ship. <<<<<<

          This thesis is problematic because, as the sociologists never tire of telling us, fundamentalist religious groups are *growing*, not decling. It's liberal Protestantism which is declining. (There are more Anglicans in Nigeria than England, NZ, and Australia put together!)
          • I timed out before finishing my thought. The ship is not sinking if 'sinking' means in danger of going under anytime soon.

            The Catholic Church is still the largest group of Christians (-one of six people *on Earth* is Catholic).

            Evangelical Protestantism is the tallest tree in the Protestant forest.

            The largest decline among Christian churches is in the mainline / liberal ones.

            I think younger evangelicals share concerns with other young people. Their culture is more like the culture of other young people---technology, information, networking, experimentation, exploration---than it is like the culture of their parents. They're not "freaked out" about homosexuality the way their parents were----it's familiar to them and they don't fear it. They seek to *create* community and don't value isolation.
            • <I timed out before finishing my thought. The ship is not sinking if 'sinking' means in danger of going under anytime soon.>

              I'm sorry if I did not put it plainly enough, Josh, so please let me restate it. I did not say that the members are leaving the sinking ship; I meant to say that the cult leaders are leaving the sinking ship. (Please see the article I posted about "Father" Moon.) The Southern Baptists of today are nothing like the liberal Fundamentalists I knew as a kid in Florida. The fundies I grew up with may have been on the racist/separatist side but they would never burn a cross on somebody's lawn. They may have been against abortion and equal rights for women, but they would never condone violent protests in front of women's clinics. Political organizations such as Focus on the Family, Liberty University, and the Republican National Convention (As well as Cardinal Spellman and the Catholic Church) used brilliant advertising and PR techniques to "dumb down" the Southern Baptists until they became the same as the "white trash" churches such as the Assembly of God. One of the most effective techniques they used was guaranteed employment. I remember 1974-75 when the A of G came into Washington NJ and Warren County. The pastor arrived with a never ending bag of money, and invested in or started about half a dozen businesses which only hired church members. These businesses continued paying high wages even though we were in the midst of the Vietnam recession and those businesses didn't do much work. Now it seems that a lot of this money came from the Unification Church. It is so much easier to be a narrow little bigot when you live an isolated life around your fellow church people and your job depends on it.

              The Moon backed Bush administration has dragged the U.S so far down into a new Depression that not even Moon's seemingly endless pockets can keep the church based businesses going. Even the stupidest of fundies can see the war is dragging our country down. This is going to cause a major shake up in the Fundie hierarchy, and many of the leaders will be ducking for cover as the backlash occurs and the members start asking each other why Jesus had not saved their jobs.
              • >>>>>>>>>>
                The Moon backed Bush administration has dragged the U.S so far down into a new Depression that not even Moon's seemingly endless pockets can keep the church based businesses going. Even the stupidest of fundies can see the war is dragging our country down. This is going to cause a major shake up in the Fundie hierarchy, and many of the leaders will be ducking for cover as the backlash occurs and the members start asking each other why Jesus had not saved their jobs.
                <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



                I think we are slowly seeing a decline in the prosperity theologian mega-churches--Joel Olsteen and Joyce Meyer. I have no hard data at hand but I have read a few articles saying that mega-churches' funds and attendance are slowly decreasing.


                I am currently reading an article that applies rational choice theory to religious belief:
                naasr.com/Iannaccone2006d.pdf
                That link should be open source.
                • Here is a wonderful quote that relates:

                  "Problems of risk arise whenever the attributes of a commodity cannot be fully determined
                  prior to its purchase. The problems prove especially serious when the commodity is expensive,
                  hard to evaluate even after purchase, and impossible to return. Used cars embody all these
                  features, as many a disappointed buyer will attest. Since potential buyers have difficulty assessing
                  the quality of a used car in advance of purchase, used car sellers are tempted to overstate the
                  value of their merchandise and to disguise its true nature. Knowing this, buyers will endeavor to
                  reduce the odds of deception. They may demand guarantees, seek information from third parties,
                  investigate the seller's reputation, and so forth. This motivates sellers to provide, or at least
                  appear to provide, proof that their claims are true.

                  The uncertainty surrounding most religious goods is far greater than that which surrounds
                  used cars. No amount of personal experience suffices fully to evaluate a religion's claims. Hence
                  we can predict the emergence of institutions and arrangements designed to increase information
                  (or at least the appearance of information) and reduce fraud.

                  Examples are not hard to find. Testimonials are commonplace in religion and, predictably,
                  are more common in those variants that place greater emphasis on material blessings. Testimonies
                  are more likely to be believed when they come from a trusted source, such as a personal
                  acquaintance or a respected figure. They are especially credible when testifiers have relatively
                  little to gain (or, better yet, much to lose) from having their claims heard and believed. This helps
                  to explain why the character of religious activity is so often collective and the structure of
                  religious organizations is so often congregational.8 Fellow members are more trustworthy than
                  strangers. They also have less incentive to overstate the benefits of the religion than do members
                  of the clergy, whose livelihood depends on a steady stream of "sales." The clergy, in turn, are
                  more persuasive when they do not benefit materially from their followers' faith or when they
                  receive low salaries relative to their level of training."
                • <I think we are slowly seeing a decline in the prosperity theologian mega-churches--Joel Olsteen and Joyce Meyer. I have no hard data at hand but I have read a few articles saying that mega-churches' funds and attendance are slowly decreasing.>

                  I personally know of one fundie preacher who gave my wife a hard time during my brother-in-law's wedding. (He was married to the bride's sister.) At the time he was making nearly 100K a year at a New Jersey megachurch. Today he is making 20K in a small congregation in PA where his kids are eating deer meat donated by local hunters.

                  <grin>

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