low and behold, we are doing the same thing to marijuana that we are doing to .... everything. The Drug War drove growers indoors and now after some decades of this we have hydro pot some with over 20% THC and my feeling is that a lot of this hydro pot has been so genetically altered that it is now a man made "drug" that definately causes addiction and then god knows what else since it is so new I doubt there are any reliable long term studies. By bearing down on our innocent little plant with the human intention for speed of maturation and maximum yield, we have created a monster. O to sativa's growing wild under the auspices of a bright and beautiful sun!
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Re: plant genetics
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 9:32 AMCannabis has been a cultivar - pretty much a human-bred organism - for many thousands of years. There are few if any "wild" strains of cannabis known. Ruderalis, maybe, which by itself isn't very smokable.
While research with high potency herb in the USA has been impeded (tho MAPS is working hard to change that), there have been plenty long-tern studies with hashish in other countries. As well, there are now clinical studies involving Sativex, a high-potency extract approved for medical use in Canada and the UK. The potency does not seem to increase addiction or side effects... rather, users tend to use less and side effects from smoke and other chemicals in the herb seem to be reduced.
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Re: plant genetics
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 12:22 PMYour artificial dichotomy between natural 'drugs' and man made 'drugs' is itself a reflection of living in a society that came up with the war on drugs. THC in any concentration is probably not addictive or dangerous (I mean, I guess you could drown in the oil?). You just smoke less to get the same effect. Less carbon, less smoke, less damage. I can't wait for the day when synthesized crystal THC is available over the counter. -
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Re: plant genetics
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 2:08 PMNah I agree with you D.
We have created a monster.
I see so many people, all they do is live for their "chronic"
It appears to be shaping a lot of peoples' lives,
and their dreamless nights.
Moderation is a virtue.
I learned the hard way.
Quitting this stuff after 7 years, my body reacted like a junkies.
It was insane.
It's very addictive. At least it was for me, and a lot of people I see,
even if they don't want to admit it.
I love marijuana the goddess of euphoria, compassion, and creativity.
Some people need to smoke every day for medical reasons, and it is a wonderful herb.
Yes it's "better" nowadays because you don't need to smoke as much to get your desired effect,
but the effect is so god damn good people want it all the time.
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Re: plant genetics
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 2:11 PMIt's truly an amazing gift.
But ... all day every day?
C'mon.
Unless you need to for real medical reasons....
I really don't know how I feel about it all.
To each his own.
It was like heroin for me. -
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Re: plant genetics
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 4:43 PMI have experienced this physical addiction myself from the hydro and I'm sure that this heightened THC level could become harmful above some threshold and I did not find this with a sativa say with less then 5% THC, but an obviously "better" balance of THC to the cannobinoids. I've never had a physical addiction so I have nothing to compare it to but I would call it a mild physical addiction, characterized as ik said by sleeplessness and anxiety. This is just something that no one wants to hear - straight people could care less about such a distinction and most growers are going to reject it since these sativas yield considerably less bud and take considerably longer to grow and smokers nowadays, I'm told, mostly feel like they're lucky to find any pot at all, more or less fuss over what particular strain it is. A real point here is that we have done exactly this with our food - square tomatoes for ease of packing and transportation, only one example - tastes like shit especially if you have a fresh tomato from your garden to compare.
I think that there is a point of genetic manipulation by humans after which these plant substances change not just in degree but in kind, simple as that. If one is of the mind to trust humans, not a problem. If one is more inclined to trust nature, a bit alarming. If you grow anything you must have that sense of how complicated organic systems are - far too complicated for us to figure out, the organic systems of this planet, their incalculable interactions, the eons of time they have spent in these interactions co-evolving on this planet. It is hubris for us to Interlope into the magic world of planet biodynamics with our monkey consciousness. -
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Re: plant genetics
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 7:29 PMHey, there were potheads back in the day when all we could get was Mexican brick schwag. People can get addicted to almost anything. As a hypnotherapist I've seen people addicted to pistachio nuts, star trek episodes, mint tea, fingernail biting, masturbation, Ayn Rand books, Jesus, and many more things - to the point where if their stuff was withheld they would panic within minutes. I'm not sure that I'm ready to buy a genetic herb/increased addiction link without some study.
By the way, hydroponic is a growing system, not a breed type.
I agree that there are some breeders who have greedy motives and turn out high-potency couch glue - and I trust that there are others who make their breeding selections from their heart and as part of the complicated organic system we help comprise. -
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Re: plant genetics
Sun, February 17, 2008 - 3:39 PMYeah, I find myself panicing when I can't whack off, too, lol. -
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Re: plant genetics
Sun, February 17, 2008 - 8:41 PMWho ever said weed was not addictive is full of poney'
Weed is extreemly addictive' even to the point of making you physically ill as of when you get a handle on stopping'
Sweating sleepless agitated, seriously addictive shit if you ask me'
I know I smoked it all my life'
It is extreemly addictive and habit forming making one as lazy as hell'
I love weed he he he'
Motumba'
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Re: plant genetics
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 9:40 AMWe are free to chose our alliances - whatever one may say about marijuana, there are far worse allies to have in this world. Like all allies She has her own agenda, Her own feelings. We have to evolve a relationship with Her - not much different from forming an intimate relationship with a loved one. We cannot control our loved one and to try is a real sickness - we must relate to our loved one, give and take, build and maintain a relationship. Respect goes a long, long way. It is not enought to love Her, we must respect Her. It is not good if this relationship becomes unbalanced, in my opinion. If you give marijuana all your power, just as if you give anyone you are in relationship with all your power, you are doing yourself an injustice and in a way you are running away from life - we need our power to live and love.
But if we are balanced we can give away all our power, more than all our power, and still maintain our strength.
Not where I am at but I have seen such balanced humans so I at least know that it is possible. -
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Re: plant genetics
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 12:45 PMAnd yet again I commend you David' spot on bro'
All about balance and respect'
My comment was a bit goshe'; as in the lady mary jane has little power over me'
I have walke the road of all substsances and their power fo control is well known to me' Took me 23 years to beat scag'
To know of respect for oneself before giving respect is of what is most crucial'
The eye can not see the eye seeing, but we must be able to see ourselves seeing before we can act, correctly'
To learn of to look at life as a film of which we are holding the staring role, changes ones view of self'
Gives one an impotants in ones own life' hence respect is gaine from self, then it becomes extreemly easy to take contol and give respect to loved ones an loved entities of conciousness expansion'
I see you love your weed bro' he he he'
Bliss'
Motumba'
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Re: plant genetics
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 8:29 PMThree Points...
1. You CAN become addicted to washing your Hands...
2. Pot is a highly metamorphic plant, Selective breeding is not altering pre-existing genes...
3. Hashish is closer to 45-50% pure THC and has been around for thousands of years... -
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Re: plant genetics
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 8:36 PMmmmmmmm...........
hashish............... -
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Re: plant genetics
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 10:03 PMI think the human relationship with plant cultivation, has been one of selectively bringing out the traits we value in plants since the very beginning, we've just gotten very good at doing that. However, I see all plants as deserving of reverence and respect. Over indulgence of marijuana shows a lack of reverence for the gift of that plant, but I don't see that as the responsibility of the cultivators. It's up to each of us to be responsible for our own usage, the positive or negative effects that we reap from that usage is a reflection upon us, not the plant. -
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Re: plant genetics
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 4:03 PMIndeed
Om Bhaisajye Bhaisajye Maha Bhaisajye Rajasamudgate Svaha
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Re: plant genetics
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 4:36 PMi kind of think anyone smoking hash daily would have an addiction issue also - never had the luxury of finding out myself -
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Re: plant genetics
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 4:45 PMAye, some people have Addictive Personalities... I am a firm Believe in 'Everything in Moderation' and 'You CAN have too much of a good thing'... Just remember there is a HUGE difference between USE and ABUSE... -
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Re: plant genetics
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 7:29 PMHehe... and I guess some times you use the tool.... MOST the time YOU are the TOOL.... Providing a Nice Warm Central Nervous System to transmit/receive Data with... An Alien Intelligence living here on the planet we barely understand... Praise the Planet Allies, Praise the Plant Teachers....
OM AH RA PA TSA DHEEE DHEEE DHEEE -
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Re: plant genetics
Sun, February 17, 2008 - 3:35 PMMany folks who don't want to quit using whatever substance, including weed, will tend to minimize it's addctive nature, and fail to see it's whole actions upon thier bodies and lives. I smoked weed for 25 years, and I am hear to tell you all it IS addictive. No, it will not make you sick like heroin, degrade your body like meth, or make you fiend like freebase. But to deny that it calls out to you to smoke more is just that-denial. Who hasn't experienced this: "I'll just buy this sack of stink bud that cost twice as much, and is twice as good, and it will last me twice as long".. lol. And it doesn't- you just get twice as stoned. I can't count the hundreds of times me and all the people I ever smoked weed with came up with zany plans to get weed, spent money on it that was meant for important bills, went to work or school stoned and fucked something up, or and this is common, failed to advance your social or economic status because you were too stoned to give a damn.
Having said that, I don't have anything against weed or people that smoke it. I just think it would be wise to admit that it does have some, albiet minor, deleterious effects. Just because it won't have you sucking $5 dicks in an alley doesn't mean it's good for you, lol.
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