Lebanese American Christian perspective

topic posted Mon, July 17, 2006 - 11:35 AM by  Unsubscribed
As an American of Lebanese descent, I am truly disgusted by the way my government is handling the current situation in Lebanon. We are a nation that preached democracy yet we do not have any real mediators on the ground. American weapons are now being used to kills innocent civilians in my country of origin.

This problem did not just start yesterday. This has been ongoing for many years. If the Palestinian issue is not dealt with, we cannot solve these ongoing conflicts.

There are thousands of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon because Israel kicked them out when it became a state in 1948. Ever since that happened, the conflict in the Middle East has deepened.

There are many Lebanese as well as Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails. Israel on a daily basis for years now (and it is recorded in the UN) {{domino.un.org/unispal.nsf...nt}}violates international law by flying over Lebanese sovereign airspace.

It is not about the two Israeli soldiers. Israel has had a five year plan to bomb on Lebanon. Israel knows that Lebanon’s highest tourist season is July and August yet they still bombed the only airport in the country and cut off any possible aid to the civilian population. Lebanon is the size of the state of Maryland, it only has one airport. When a country is blockaded by air and sea, it creates a HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.

As a Lebanese American Christian, I am very frustrated. I have lots of family members in Lebanon that I cannot get a hold of. Israel is not only targeting Hezbollah, they are targeting Lebanese civilian infrastructure. The electricity is down as well as the phone lines. This is a disaster.

Lebanon is a democratic and sovereign nation that is under attack. The last time I spoke to my family, they said they could not get any food because they country is shut down. Now I cannot get a hold of them. Why should they have to pay the price for the acts of a few?

Lebanese Christians and Muslims alike to do agree with Hezbollah actions, but, at the same time, the civilian population does not support the disproportionate Israeli aggression against its innocent people and country.

posted by:
Unsubscribed
  • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

    Mon, July 17, 2006 - 12:15 PM
    It is indeed sad that Lebanon has been a pawn in the Middle East for so long. Last year it looked like Lebanon was finally shaking off the shackles of Syria and Iran after the killing of the Prime Minister by Syrian lead forces. The Syrians were forced to "withdraw" from Lebanon, and strong words supporting the indepence of Lebanon were given. But strong words were not followed by strong actions. The country is still essentially under the control of militias that follow the instructions of foreign masters (Syria and/or Iran). The Lebanese desire for indenpence has been denied yet again.

    If only there was a simple solution. Bush seems to think that all you have to do is have Syria tell Hezbollah to stop. Is it that easy? Hezbollah is virtually a branch of the Iranian military. How much influence does Syria really have? It seems not much.

    And the other Lebanese, as is the nature of Lebanese politics find it very difficult to unite against foreign threats and incursions when those threats are Syrian and Iranian (or before that Egyptian).

    Right now the Israelis have been provoked. I suspect their actions fit nicely with what the Iranians want: Focus away from Iran's Nuclear Weapons development program. Who cares what happens to the Lebanese as long as no one pays attention to the Iranians! As for the Israelis, what are they to do? They have essentially conceded land, prisoners, and political positions over and over again on the theory that the end result would be peace, or at least a peace process. But there has been no peace, nor even a hint that the current generation of Palestinians are interested in a peace settlement. Should the Israelis concede some more? What should they concede? How much? In exchange for what?
    • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

      Mon, July 17, 2006 - 10:16 PM
      Lara

      Sorry you are frustrated but the SIMPLE fact is that Lebanon allows and tacitly encourages Hezbollah to operate within Lebanon. Israel has withdrawn from every fucking inch of disputed territory and had the UN certify it as such. If Lebanon wants peace..........acknowledge that there will never ever be peace as long as hezbollah exists because the exist only for the destruction of Israel.

      Wake up, smell the coffee.................
  • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

    Wed, July 19, 2006 - 6:14 PM
    Lara,
    i think what needs to be said first and foremost is that there is much empathy in this country for your people and their situation as hostages in their own country. There is not a single viewpoint that is correct in such a quandry, save for the compassionate view that people should not be subjected to war and instability at the hands of a minority of the population. i take the simplistic view that, history aside, we humans cannot manage to respect oneanother's dreams and hopes for peace. sometimes people get pushed to the point of abandoning hope and this somehow justifies war. it does not. i feel for you and although i'm just an iowan in the middle of nowhere, i hope the present-day problems don't harm your family and friends in lebanon, israel and palestine. there is no academic justification or explanation for this mess, it's simply shameful human behavior. god bless.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

      Wed, July 19, 2006 - 10:08 PM
      You can bomb the world to Pieces but you can't bomb it into Peace. - Micheal Franti
      • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

        Fri, July 21, 2006 - 8:48 AM
        Great post Lara

        Reality would suggest otherwise. WWII ended by annihilation.........not by a cease fire or a peace movement. If a cease fire actually resulted in peace the Mideast would be the most peaceful place on earth.

        I've been to Beirut and it is a wonderful place. Reminds me a lot of San Francisco............beautiful architecture set upon stunning hillsides.

        Unfortunately Lebanon has allowed Hezbollah, Syria and Iran to infect government and threaten their sovereign status ................and until they remove Hezbollah and act like a sovereign nation..........there will unfortunately be no peace. Because Hezbollah is a terrorist organization........not a peaceful organization...................
        • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

          Fri, July 21, 2006 - 9:02 AM
          I heard a comment which I think goes to the point. No one is Pro-War anymore than then anyone is Pro-Surgery. But you cannot negotiate with a tumor. You can talk to the tumor, and you might even think it is listening. But in the end the tumor is just going to kill you.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

            Thu, July 27, 2006 - 12:54 PM
            You can make an appeal to your state's congressmen and representatives:

            please take a few minutes and visit the following websites and voice your opinion on the resolutions and bills that are being introduced.

            Support H.Res. 945, Humanitarian Aid to Lebanon

            Washington, DC | July 27, 2006 | The American-Arab Anti-
            Discrimination Committee (ADC) urges you to contact your members in
            the House of Representatives to ask them to support H.Res. 945,
            proposed by Hon. Sheila Jackson Lee [D-TX-18]. To date, there are
            only 13 co-sponsors for the resolution, full text of which is
            included below. If you would like to help bring humanitarian relief
            to the people of Lebanon, then take action today.

            To contact your elected officials, go to:
            capwiz.com/adc/dbq/officials/

            Please also send a note of thanks to Rep. Jackson-Lee via her website
            at: www.jacksonlee.house.gov


            H.RES.945
            thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z

            Expressing deep concern at the ongoing violence in the Middle East,
            and particularly the current hostilities between the State of Israel
            and Hezbollah which have intensified since July 12, 2006.

            Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas submitted the following resolution. . .

            RESOLUTION

            Expressing deep concern at the ongoing violence in the Middle East,
            and particularly the current hostilities between the State of Israel
            and Hezbollah which have intensified since July 12, 2006.

            * Whereas, since the commencement of hostilities, over 350 Lebanese
            civilians, one third of whom are children according to the United
            Nations Emergency Relief Coordinator, and 17 Israeli civilians, have
            been killed;

            * Whereas vital infrastructure, including hospitals, power plants,
            bridges, roads, and food and milk factories in Lebanon have been
            destroyed;

            * Whereas over 600,000 people in Lebanon and hundreds of thousands of
            people in Israel have been displaced;

            * Whereas President George W. Bush has expressed great concern over
            the welfare of the people of Lebanon;

            * Whereas United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan has called for
            an immediate cease-fire;

            * Whereas the United Nations Emergency Relief Coordinator has warned
            of a humanitarian disaster in Lebanon;

            * Whereas the Government of Lebanon has urgently appealed for an
            immediate cessation to hostilities; and

            * Whereas the international community has expressed support for a
            humanitarian corridor to Lebanon to be opened immediately to get
            desperately-needed humanitarian supplies to the suffering people of
            Lebanon:

            Now, therefore, be it Resolved, That the House of Representatives -

            (1) calls for the cessation of the targeting by any side of
            infrastructure vital to non-combatants, which also increases the
            likelihood of the loss of innocent civilian life;

            (2) calls for a secure humanitarian corridor to be opened immediately
            via the seaports and airports of Lebanon to alleviate the unnecessary
            suffering of the people of Lebanon;

            (3) calls for an immediate cease-fire in line with the urgent appeals
            of the Government of Lebanon and the United Nations Secretary
            General; and

            (4) urges a comprehensive and just solution to the Arab-Israeli
            conflict to ensure that the peoples of the Middle East can live in
            peace, freedom, and prosperity.


            List of Current Co-Sponsors for H. Res. 945:

            Rep Conyers, John, Jr. [D-MI-14]
            Rep Davis, Danny K. [D-IL-7]
            Rep Hinchey, Maurice D. [D-NY-22]
            Rep Kaptur, Marcy [D-OH-9]
            Rep Kilpatrick, Carolyn C. [D-MI-13]
            Rep McDermott, Jim [D-WA-7]
            Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. [D-CA-6]
            Rep Cummings, Elijah E. [D-MD-7]
            Rep Hall, Ralph M. [R-TX-4]
            Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice [D-TX-30]
            Rep Kildee, Dale E. [D-MI-5]
            Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. [D-OH-10]
            • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

              Thu, July 27, 2006 - 1:26 PM
              I really don't understand this whole issue. I think we all agree that Hezbollah is bad, and needs to be neutralized. I think most would agree that Israel has the right to defend itself from unprovoked aggression. I think most would have to acknowledge that Israel has conceded land, prisoners, etc. in exchange for Peace, and has received nothing but rockets and bombs.

              Now Israel is fighting back. I have heard a lot about the "dispproportionate" nature of the fighting. What does this mean? Would it be better if more Israelis were killed?

              In WWII the US lost 92,000 men while fighting the Japanese. The Japanese eventually admitted defeat and surrendered... but not until we killed 9 million of the enemy. It would have been better if the Japanese would have accepted defeat earlier without so much loss of life, but they refused to stop fighting. They believed they could still be victorious, so they continued to fight. Would it have been better if the US had lost equal amounts of men? We won because we killed more Japanese than they killed of us. Against Germany the numbers were not so dramatic, and millions of Allied troops died trying to stop the Germans. By the end of WWII more than 5 millions Germans had died before Germany was defeated. In this case I suppose those who support this strange doctrine of proportions should be happy since the allies actually lost more than the Germans: 18 millions Allied soldiers and civilians died in order to free Europe from Nazi aggression. I suppose the Israelis are supposed to emulate those numbers???? It is difficult to see how they could do so since they are outnumbered by their Arab neighbors by a factor of 100 to 1.

              Also, as for the "civilian" casualties. I am sure there are civilian casualties since Hezbollah and most terrorist groups hide behind women, children, UN defense forces, and hospitals while firing rockets at their enemies (and this has been the case whether or not the enemy was Israel or Christian Lebanese). The only choice an enemy has is to either sit there and let Hezbollah kill you and your children, or to attack their missile launchers. However, reports have started to come out that the reports of "civilian" casualties coming out of the Lebanese government and Hezbollah are simply incorrect. It appears that many Hezbollah fighters have been killed during these bombings, and that they are simply being called civilians since they do not have formal uniforms. No civilian death should be celebrated, and the Israelis are not doing so (unlike the Arabs when they manage to successfully kill innocent civilians through rockets, suicide bomber, etc.). It appears that Israel is doing everything they can do avoid civilian deaths. However, if Hezbollah continues to attack Israel from locations inside hosptials, mosques, apartment complexes, and next to UN "peace keepers", there is going to be collateral damage, and only Hezbollah is to be blamed.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                Sun, July 30, 2006 - 3:50 PM
                REMINDER: QANA IS A BIBLICAL CITY WHERE JESUS CHRIST MADE HIS FIRST MIRACLE BY CONVERTING WATER INTO WINE, TODAY ISRAEL DECIDED TO KILL ALL THESE INNOCENT PEOPLE...

                THANK YOU. NOW QANA WILL BE KNOWN AS A PLACE WHERE ISRAEL MASSACRED CHILDREN.

                Deadly Israeli airstrike sparks fury
                By KATHY GANNON, Associated Press Writer

                QANA, Lebanon - An Israeli airstrike Sunday killed at least 56 Lebanese, mostly women and children, when it leveled a building where they had taken shelter. The deadliest attack in nearly three weeks of warfare forced Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to cut short a Mideast mission and increased world pressure on the United States to back an end to the fighting.

                The stunning bloodshed pushed American peace efforts to a crucial juncture, as fury at the United States flared in Lebanon, which said it no longer would negotiate a U.S. peace package without an unconditional cease-fire. U.N. chief Kofi Annan sharply criticized world leaders implicitly Washington for ignoring his previous calls to stop the violence.

                The attack in the village of Qana brought Lebanon's confirmed death toll to more than 510. Throughout the day, workers pulled dirt-covered bodies of young boys and girls dressed in the shorts and T-shirts they had been sleeping in out of the rubble of the three-story building.

                Two extended families, the Shalhoubs and the Hashems, had gathered for shelter from another night of Israeli bombardment in the border area when the 1 a.m. strike brought the building down.

                "I was so afraid. There was dirt and rocks and I couldn't see. Everything was black," said Noor Hashem, 13, whose five siblings were killed.

                Noor was pulled out of the ruins by her uncle, whose wife and five children also died.

                Israel apologized for the deaths but blamed Hezbollah guerrillas, saying they had fired rockets into northern Israel from near the building. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said the campaign to crush Hezbollah would continue, telling Rice it could last another two weeks.

                "We will not stop this battle, despite the difficult incidents this morning," he told his Cabinet after the strike, according to a participant. "If necessary, it will be broadened without hesitation."

                The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting to debate a resolution demanding an immediate cease-fire a step Washington has stood nearly alone at the council in refusing until the disarmament of Hezbollah is assured.

                In a jab at the United States, Annan told the council in unusually frank terms he was "deeply dismayed" his previous calls for a halt were ignored.

                "Action is needed now before many more children, women and men become casualties of a conflict over which they have no control," he said.

                After news of the deaths emerged, Rice telephoned Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora and said she would stay in Jerusalem to continue work on a peace package, rather than make a planned Sunday visit to Beirut. Saniora said he told her not to come.

                Rice decided to cut her Mideast trip short and return to Washington on Monday morning.

                British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who only days earlier gave his support to the U.S. stance, struck a more urgent note Sunday, saying Washington must work faster to put together the broader deal it seeks.

                "We have to get this now. We have to speed this whole process up," Blair said. "This has got to stop and stop on both sides."

                But Saniora said talk of a larger peace package must wait until the firing stops.

                "We will not negotiate until the Israeli war stops shedding the blood of innocent people," he told a gathering of foreign diplomats.

                But he underlined that Lebanon stands by ideas for disarming Hezbollah that it put forward earlier this week and that Rice praised.

                He took a tough line and hinted that any Hezbollah response to the airstrike in Qana was justified.

                "As long as the aggression continues there is response to be exercised," he said, praising Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah.

                Hezbollah said on its Al-Manar television that "the massacre at Qana will not go unanswered."

                The largest toll from a single Israeli strike in past weeks was about a dozen and Sunday's dramatic deaths stunned Lebanese. Heightening the anger were memories of a 1996 Israeli artillery bombardment that hit a U.N. base in Qana, killing more than 100 Lebanese who had taken refuge from fighting. That attack sparked an international outcry that forced a halt to an Israeli offensive.

                Some 5,000 protesters gathered in downtown Beirut, attacking a U.N. building and burning American flags, shouting: "Destroy Tel Aviv! Destroy Tel Aviv!" and chanting for Hezbollah ally Syria to hit Israel. Another protest by about 50 people on a road leading to the U.S. Embassy forced security forces to close the road.

                Images of children's bodies tangled in the building's ruins and being carried away on blankets or wrapped in plastic sheeting were aired on Arab news networks. The dead included at least 34 children and 12 women, Lebanese security officials said.

                In Qana, Khalil Shalhoub was helping pull out the dead until he saw his brother's body taken out on a stretcher.

                "Why are they killing us? What have we done?" he screamed.

                Israel said Hezbollah had fired more than 40 rockets from Qana before the airstrike, including several from near the building that was bombed. Foreign Ministry official Gideon Meir accused Hezbollah of "using their own civilian population as human shields."

                It said residents had been warned to leave, but Shalhoub and others in Qana said residents were too terrified to take the road out. The road to the nearest main city, Tyre, is lined with charred wreckage and smashed buildings from repeated Israeli bombings.

                More than 750,000 Lebanese have fled their homes in the fighting. But many thousands more are still believed holed up in the south, taking refuge in schools, hospitals or basements of apartment buildings amid the fighting.

                Lebanese Defense Minister Elias Murr disputed allegations that Hezbollah was firing missiles from Qana.

                "What do you expect Israel to say? Will it say that it killed 40 children and women?" he told Qatar-based Al-Jazeera TV station.

                On Thursday, the Israeli military's Al-Mashriq radio that broadcasts into southern Lebanon warned residents their villages would be "totally destroyed" if missiles were fired from them. Leaflets with similar messages were dropped in some areas Saturday.

                Israel on Sunday also launched its second significant ground incursion into southern Lebanon. Before dawn, Israeli forces backed by heavy artillery fire crossed the border and clashed with Hezbollah guerrillas in the Taibeh Project area, as far as 2.5 miles inside Lebanon.

                Hezbollah said eight Israeli soldiers were killed. The Israeli military said only that four soldiers were wounded when guerrillas hit a tank with a missile.

                Health Minister Muhammad Jawad Khalifeh said more than 750 Lebanese were believed dead, including more than 200 people buried in the rubble around the south or reported missing.

                Thirty-three Israeli soldiers have died, and Hezbollah rocket attacks on northern Israel have killed 18 civilians, Israeli authorities said.

                The U.N. World Food Program canceled an aid convoy's trip to the embattled south after the Israeli military denied safe passage, the group said. The six-truck convoy had been scheduled to bring relief supplies to Marjayoun.

                Many in the Arab world and Europe see the United States as holding the key to the conflict, believing that Israel would stop its offensive sparked by Hezbollah's July 12 abduction of two Israeli soldiers if top ally Washington insisted.

                The United States has balked at doing so, saying any cease-fire must ensure real and lasting peace.

                Rice came to the Mideast with a peace package calling for disarming Hezbollah, releasing Israel's soldiers, deploying a U.N.-mandated force in south Lebanon and establishing a buffer zone along the border.

                Hopes were raised earlier in the week when Hezbollah signed onto a Lebanese government peace plan containing some similar items though it left disarmament and deployment of the international force for later and dependent on conditions. Chief among those conditions was that Israel release Lebanese in its jails and agree to resolve a dispute over a piece of land it holds claimed by Lebanon.

                Saniora said those ideas still stand but Lebanon would not discuss them until the fighting stops.

                Lebanese President Emile Lahoud lashed out at the United States, saying that if it was "serious, it can make Israel cease firing ... They (Americans) are still giving the green light to Israel to continue its aggression against Lebanon."
                • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                  Mon, July 31, 2006 - 7:45 AM
                  You have become a mouth piece for a bunch of fanatical fascists who would slit your throat for being who you are.

                  I suppose we should all just get out out our prayer rugs and start praying towards Mecca. I think if I had to face having my head cut-off with a rusty knife or submitting to Islam, Islam is looking better all the time. And as for you my dear, get used to dressing in a burka. Your cute little white dress will be the death of you!

                  Allahu Akbar!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                    Mon, July 31, 2006 - 8:04 AM
                    I hate organized religion, i think everyone that submits to such idiocy should put their ass towards mecca and have a spear stuck up it!
                    About the conflict with Israel, how the hell can anyone suport their cause? To me they are exactly the same as the nazis were. Supporting them is to be a quisling. I dont like the islamic counties either, they are just as bad and a bunch of peacocks. Also, they are provacative and a bunch of idiots. It,s probably the heat or something but they go all crazy over just shitty stuff. However, if the English wouldent have given away their own colony to Israel there wouldent be this conflict to begin with. Back in 1948 and the other wars it was arab agression, after that the IDF had to be superior to survive. However things has changes and Israel is the main agressor. Im not sure how to solve it now, because the jews are tied to their religious sights there and would probably rather fight to the death. It,s to late to ask them to leave and look for another region where they can live in peace. They should be left fending for themselfes and face the consequences. It would keep them in their own land when they dosent have big brother to back them up. I believe people should stick to themself and like minded people. The less different cultures interfeer the less problems. That way we can choose for ourself what we get from other cultures.
                    • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                      Mon, July 31, 2006 - 8:27 AM
                      It is easy to just say this sort of meaningless mush about how all religion is hateful and how you hate everyone with a religious perspective (in fact the thought of what you want to do to people when they point to Meccas is quite hateful!!!??? Almost medieval???).

                      It is also quite difficult to get real information on the subject since modern media focuses only on emotional content that is driven to keep your attention just long enough to get you through the next advertisement, and hopefully to the next story or show. Stories about heartless Israelis bombing "innocent" civilians is guaranteed to drive up ratings. Are they really true??? Who cares!

                      Who wants to hear the truth??? It certainly wouldn't be very interesting to the modern viewer, and would also require a tremendous amount of patience to learn about the real history.

                      I will not try here.

                      But this constant effort to try to make everyone morally equal will result in the same disasters as in the 1930s. No one is all good, nor all evil. But to compare the Israelis current effort at obtaining some small level of security against fascist enemies who are driven by the same kind of hatred that fueled the Nazis of German, and the Fascists of Spain and Italy would be a mistake. But a mistake that is quite easy to make, and is likely to be rewarded with pats on the back from receptive listeners.

                      So go ahead. Have fun! Don't waste any of those valuable brain cells on logical reasoning, or industrious study. Just swallow up the garbage that is being thrown your way, and burp it back up. Better to burp it and taste it than fart it and waste it!!!

                      (now where did I put that prayer rug, and that copy of the Koran I keep for emergencies???)
                      • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                        Mon, July 31, 2006 - 9:16 AM
                        An interesting and disturbing artilce that tries inform about the ominous reality of the situation:

                        www.atimes.com/atimes/Mid...25Ak01.html

                        another interesting read if you are inclined to look at objective reason rather than emotional outbursts:

                        www.atimes.com/atimes/Mid...01Ak01.html

                        all very troubling and disturbing.
                        • Unsu...
                           

                          Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                          Mon, July 31, 2006 - 10:04 AM
                          Emotional and not reasoning? So what makes me so un-objectical then? Judging by your posts you are throwing stones in a house of glass speaking of emotions, you seem pretty dramatic yourself.. Medieval? No they vere brainwashed by christian dogmatic, i want to put a spear up their ass because they are hypocrits thats all. Make it a heated spear fresh from the fire. As for media, i try to stay away form CNN and such crapp. In Sweden we have more objective reports, and documentarys instead. I seldom read articles on the net tought. Internet is the least trustable media we have.

                          If it,s true? Well i had a friend comming home from lebanon spending his vacation there, Israel shoots at stuff randomly. He was glad to come out alive.

                          *snipp* Who wants to hear the truth??? It certainly wouldn't be very interesting to the modern viewer, and would also require a tremendous amount of patience to learn about the real history. ** You sounds like the type dulging into fox news or something. The modern wiever sounds rather braindead if they dosent want the truth, why the hell watching the news at all then?

                          Im not looking for paths on my back, do i appear like a person who cares about what people think? I say what i feel is right. Either you like me or you dont, whatever. The jews believe they are superior, and that they are choosen by god. I call that faschism. They also belive they have a right to lands historically.. so did the germans.. if you care to read into history. Both are agressors, that believe in a military doctrine and to supress.

                          *So go ahead. Have fun! Don't waste any of those valuable brain cells on logical reasoning,* You must be a great thinker then because your braincells seems to be all out dude.

                          **(now where did I put that prayer rug, and that copy of the Koran I keep for emergencies???)**

                          Now where the hell did i put that spear?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                    Mon, July 31, 2006 - 12:45 PM
                    <<You have become a mouth piece for a bunch of fanatical fascists who would slit your throat for being who you are. >>

                    Excuse?? I am not the mouthpiece for anyone but the innocent. Who are you the spokesman for? You are pathetic.
                    • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                      Mon, July 31, 2006 - 5:28 PM
                      If I am anything, I am trying to avoid having my head cut-off and shown on the internet. If I had my choice, I would prefer their heads rather than mine. However, since our country seems to be controlled by a combination of muddle headed utopians who think they can either create some kind of Western style democracy out of people who simply do not want a Western style democracy, and even more idiotic people who don't the difference between killing a dangerous enemy who hides behind their women and children.

                      Did you know that it is war crime to use military weapons from a civilian location with the goal of using the civilians as a shield???? Even when the civilians want to die and meet Allah??? It is not a crime to attack an enemy who is using such tactics.

                      How about using UN ambulances to deliver troops back and forth in the middle of firefights?

                      But who cares. I am converting to Islam so it really doesn't matter.

                      Salamu Alaykum! Allahu Akbar. Death to all Infidels (with the exception of the scary ones with spears in my rear - we'll just leave them alone)!
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                        Wed, August 2, 2006 - 6:04 AM
                        It,s very hard to be a celebrity these days and make people recognize ones face.. Even the running around naked idea is taken! Atleast you get popular on the internet. possible also on al jazeera ;-) Here is the head news of today...

                        Hmm.. Modern western democrazy ( note the z) .. it,s a retro trend right now, to putt walls around cities to hinder people from escaping. I think it,s about time for some serious riots. Let,s try a French solution. I dont think war will solve conflicts, and when they go on, they turn into a tradition of conflict as the middle eastern one has done. It,s better to just keep them out of the modern roman empire and let them fight a civil war instead. It,s so complicated! I dont think anoyne has a good answer on how to solve the conflict. Just keep them out. However if the people in the world stoped to take religion so over serious it would help alot..

                        I think it,s terrible that these countries dosent follow the geneva conventions. They have turned into an ``europeans trying to have a say and controll thing it seems like´´ It turned into laws instead of human rights. Laws of humiliation or something to them. All western influence is an enemy in their thinking. The tactic of mixing civilians isent new however, the nazi Germans pulled that one too to avoid air strikes. It,s just the same. It,s strange however that people put up with elements such as hizbollah in civilian courters. I wonder what sort of rellation they have to these. Martyrs or supressors? The UN is a pathetic joke when it comes down to anything serious. Why does they allow their ambulances to be used in this way? Without a fight? It needs a re organization from the core.

                        Yeah watch out for the spear nutty,s. We just sitt here here in the forest and waits for a roman legion to pass by or whatever :P Then we suddently stops drinking or coffee and cryes out.. and the battle cry is death, death, death! * get,s stary, crazy eyes* Shit i should stop playing rome total war.. it get,s to my head.
                        • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                          Wed, August 2, 2006 - 6:21 AM
                          An interesting quote I found recently:

                          "America is at that awkward stage.
                          It's too late to work within the system,
                          but too early to shoot the bastards.
                          On the road to tyranny, we've gone so far
                          that polite political action is about as
                          useless as a miniskirt in a convent."
                          -- Claire Wolfe, Source: "101 Things To Do 'Til The Revolution"

                          I think we spend too much time talking about which backward retard in the Middle East needs to be bombed, and not enough time thinking about why and what we actually need to defend. I consider myself a patriot. But I do not believe there is single gram of dirt that worth killing for. It is not a territorial defined area that I believe is important, but the ideals that were built into the system that is worth defending. And unfortunately those ideals are being ripped apart piece by piece by internal enemies. So I find it very difficult to be a Patriotic American when I see the ideals that made America a great country being thrown out the window.

                          We may need to fight wars in the Middle East to protect ourselves, our friends, and our way of life (yes that means oil). But I fear these constant wars are being used to deaden our senses to the real threat of having our liberties stripped from us. At that point what difference does it really make which direction we are forced pray? Or who holds the knife to our throat?
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                            Sat, August 12, 2006 - 6:49 AM
                            Israel's military is pressing on with an expanded ground offensive in south Lebanon, despite the UN Security Council vote for a ceasefire plan.
                            Israel has tripled its number of troops there, the army chief said. They are moving towards the strategically significant Litani River.

                            The UN passed a resolution urging a "full cessation of hostilities".

                            news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middl...4786041.stm
                            • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                              Sun, August 13, 2006 - 3:48 PM
                              WARNING!! FILLED WITH FACTS THAT MAY NOT CONFORM WITH TWISTED FANTASY OF ANTI-ISRAELIS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

                              THE ABDICATION OF LEBANESE LEADERS.
                              State of Denial
                              by Michael Béhé
                              Only at TNR Online
                              Post date: 08.07.06
                              [ Editor's Note: This article was originally published by the Metula News Agency, for whom it was translated from the French by Llewellyn Brown, and is reprinted with permission. ]
                              Beirut, Lebanon
                              The politicians, journalists and intellectuals of Lebanon have, of late, been experiencing the shock of their lives. They knew full well that Hezbollah had created an independent state in our country, a state including all the ministers and parallel institutions, duplicating those of Lebanon. What they did not know--and are discovering with this war, and what has petrified them with surprise and terror--is the extent of this phagocytosis.
                              In fact, our country had become an extension of Iran, and our so-called political power also served as a political and military cover for the Islamists of Teheran. We suddenly discovered that Teheran had stocked more than 12,000 missiles, of all types and calibers, on our territory and that they had patiently, systematically, organized a suppletive force, with the help of the Syrians, that took over, day after day, all the rooms in the House of Lebanon. Just imagine it: We stock ground-to-ground missiles, Zilzals, on our territory and the firing of such devices, without our knowledge, has the power to spark a regional strategic conflict and, potentially, bring about the annihilation of Lebanon.
                              We knew that Iran, by means of Hezbollah, was building a veritable Maginot line in the south, but it was the pictures of Maroun el Ras and Bint Jbail that revealed to us the magnitude of these constructions. This amplitude made us understand several things at once: that we were no longer masters of our destiny; that we do not possess the most basic means necessary to reverse the course of this state of things; and that those who turned our country into an outpost of their Islamic doctrine's combat against Israel did not have the slightest intention of willingly giving up their hold over us.
                              The national salvation discussions that concerned the application of Resolution 1559, and which included most of the Lebanese political movements, were simply for show. Iran and Syria had not invested billions of dollars on militarizing Lebanon in order to wage their war, simply to give in to the desire of the Lebanese and the international community for them to pack up their hardware and set it up back home.
                              And then, the indecision, the cowardice, the division and the irresponsible behavior of our leaders are such that they had no effort to make to show their talent. No need to engage a wrestling match with the other political components of the Land of Cedars. The latter showed themselves--and continue to show themselves--to be inconsistent.
                              Of course, our army, reshaped over the years by the Syrian occupier so it could no longer fulfill its role as protector of the nation, did not have the capacity to tackle the militamen of the Hezbollah. Our army, whom it is more dangerous to call upon--because of the explosive equilibrium that constitutes each of its brigades--than to shut up behind locked doors in its barracks. A force that is still largely loyal to its former foreign masters, to the point of being uncontrollable; to the point of having collaborated with the Iranians to put our coastal radar stations at the disposal of their missiles, that almost sunk an Israeli boat off the shores of Beirut. As for the non-Hezbollah elements in the government, they knew nothing of the existence of land-to-sea missiles on our territory ... that caused the totally justified destruction of all our radar stations by the Hebrews' army. And even then we are getting off lightly in these goings-on.
                              It is easy now to whine and gripe, and to play the hypocritical role of victims. We know full well how to get others to pity us and to claim that we are never responsible for the horrors that regularly occur on our soil. Of course, that is nothing but rubbish! The Security Council's Resolution 1559--that demanded that our government deploy our army on our sovereign territory, along our international border with Israel and that it disarm all the militia on our land--was voted on September 2, 2004.
                              We had two years to implement this resolution and thus guarantee a peaceful future to our children, but we did absolutely nothing. Our greatest crime--which was not the only one!--was not that we did not succeed, but that we did not attempt or undertake anything. And that was the fault of none else than the pathetic Lebanese politicians.
                              Our government, from the very moment the Syrian occupier left, let ships and truckloads of arms pour into our country. Without even bothering to look at their cargo. They jeopardized all chances for the rebirth of our country by confusing the Cedar Revolution with the liberation of Beirut. In reality, we had just received the chance--a sort of unhoped-for moratorium--that allowed us to take the future into our own hands, nothing more.
                              To think that we were not even capable of agreeing to "hang" Émile Lahoud--Al-Assad's puppet--on Martyrs' Square and that he is still president of what some insist on calling our republic. ... There is no need to look any further: We are what we are, that is to say, not much.
                              All those who assume public and communicational responsibilities in this country are responsible for this catastrophe. Except those of my colleagues, journalists, and editors, who are dead, assassinated by the Syrian thugs, because they were clearly less cowardly than those who survived. And Lahoud remained at Baadbé, the president's palace!
                              And when I speak of a catastrophe, I do not mean the action accomplished by Israel in response to the aggression against its civilians and its army, which was produced from our soil and that we did strictly nothing to avoid, and for which we are consequently responsible. Any avoiding of this responsibility--some people here do not have the minimal notions of international law necessary to understand!--means that Lebanon, as a state, does not exist.
                              he hypocrisy goes on: Even some editorialists of the respectable L'Orient Le Jour put Hezbollah's savagery and that of the Israelis on a par! Shame! Spinelessness! And who are we in this fable? Poor ad aeternumvictims of the ambitions of others?
                              Politicians either support this insane idea or keep silent. Those we would expect to speak, to save our image, remain silent like the others. And I am precisely alluding to General Aoun, who could have made a move by proclaiming the truth. Even his enemy, Walid Jumblatt, the Druze leader, has proved to be less ... vague.
                              Lebanon a victim? What a joke!
                              Before the Israeli attack, Lebanon no longer existed, it was no more than a hologram. In Beirut, innocent citizens like me were forbidden access to certain areas of their own capital. But our police, our army, and our judges were also excluded. That was the case, for example, of Hezbollah's and the Syrians' command zone in the Haret Hreik quarter (in red on the satellite map). A square measuring a kilometer wide, a capital within the capital, permanently guarded by a Horla army, possessing its own institutions, its schools, its crèches, its tribunals, its radio, its television and, above all ... its government. A "government" that, alone decided, in the place of the figureheads of the Lebanese government--in which Hezbollah also had its ministers!--to attack a neighboring state, with which we had no substantial or grounded quarrel, and to plunge the United States into a bloody conflict. And if attacking a sovereign nation on its territory, assassinating eight of its soldiers, kidnapping two others and, simultaneously, launching missiles on nine of its towns does not constitute a casus belli, the latter juridical principle will seriously need revising.
                              Thus almost all of these cowardly politicians, including numerous Shia leaders and religious personalities themselves, are blessing each bomb that falls from a Jewish F-16 turning the insult to our sovereignty that was Haret Hreik, right in the heart of Beirut, into a lunar landscape. Without the Israelis, how could we have received another chance--that we in no way deserve!--to rebuild our country?
                              Each Irano-Syrian fort that Jerusalem destroys, each Islamic fighter they eliminate, and Lebanon proportionally starts to live again! Once again, the soldiers of Israel are doing our work. Once again, like in 1982, we are watching--cowardly, lying low, despicable, and insulting them to boot--their heroic sacrifice that allows us to keep hoping. To not be swallowed up in the bowels of the earth. Because, of course, by dint of not giving a damn for southern Lebanon, of letting foreigners take hold of the privileges that belong to us, we no longer had the ability to recover our independence and sovereignty. If, at the end of this war, the Lebanese army retakes control over its territory and gets rid of the state within a state--that tried to suffocate the latter--it will only be thanks to the Tsahal [Israeli Defense Force], and that, all these faint-hearted politicians, from the crook Fuad Siniora, to Saad Hariri, the son of Lebanon's plunderer, and general Aoun, all know perfectly well.
                              As for the destruction caused by the Israelis ... that is another imposture: Look at the satellite map! I have situated, as best I could, but in their correct proportions, the parts of my capital that have been destroyed by Israel. They are Haret Hreik--in its totality--and the dwellings of Hezbollah's leaders, situated in the large Shia suburb of Dayaa (as they spell it) and that I have circled in blue.
                              In addition to these two zones, Tsahal has exploded a nine-storied building that housed Hezbollah's command, in Beirut's city center, above and slightly to the left (to the north west) of Haret Hreik on the map. It was Nasrallah's "perch" inside the city, whereby he asserted his presence and domination over us. A depot of Syrian arms in the port, two army radars that the Shiite officers had put at Hezbollah's disposal, and a truck suspected of transporting arms, in the Christian quarter of Ashrafieh.
                              Moreover the road and airport infrastructures were put out of working order : they served to provide Hezbollah with arms and munitions. Apart from that, Tsahal has neither hit nor deteriorated anything, and all those who speak of the "destruction of Beirut" are either liars, Iranians, anti-Semites or absent. Even the houses situated one alley's distance from the targets I mentioned have not been hit, they have not even suffered a scratch; on contemplating these results of this workyou understand the meaning of the concept "surgical strikes" and you can admire the dexterity of the Jewish pilots. Beirut, all the rest of Beirut, 95 percent of Beirut, lives and breathes better than a fortnight ago. All those who have not sided with terrorism know they have strictly nothing to fear from the Israeli planes, on the contrary! One example: Last night the restaurant where I went to eat was jammed full and I had to wait until 9:30 p.m. to get a table. Everyone was smiling, relaxed, but no one filmed them: a strange destruction of Beirut, is it not?
                              Of course, there are some 500,000 refugees from the south who are experiencing a veritable tragedy and who are not smiling. But Jean Tsadik, who has his eyes fixed on Kfar Kileh, and from whom I have learned to believe each word he says, assures me that practically all the houses of the aforesaid refugees are intact. So they will be able to come back as soon as Hezbollah is vanquished.
                              The defeat of the Shia fundamentalists of Iranian allegiance is imminent. The figures communicated by Nasrallah's minions and by the Lebanese Red Cross are deceiving: firstly, of the 400 dead declared by Lebanon, only 150 are real collateral civilian victims of the war, the others were militiamen without uniform serving Iran. The photographic report "Les Civils des bilans libanais" <menapress.com/article.php made by Stéphane Juffa for the Metula News Agency constitutes, to this day, the unique tangible evidence of this gigantic morbid manipulation. Which makes this document eminently important.
                              Moreover, Hassan Nasrallah's organization has not lost 200 combatants, as Tsahal claims. This figure only concerns the combats taking place on the border and even then the Israelis underestimate it, for a reason that escapes me, by about a hundred militiamen eliminated. The real count of Hezbollah's casualties, that includes those dead in Beirut, the Bekaa Valley, Baalbek and their other camps, rocket and missile launchers and arms and munition depots amounts to 1,100 supplementary Hezbollah militiamen who have definitively ceased to terrorize and humiliate my country.
                              Like the overwhelming majority of Lebanese, I pray that no one puts an end to the Israeli attack before it finishes shattering the terrorists. I pray that the Hebrew soldiers will penetrate all the hidden recesses of southern Lebanon and will hunt out, in our stead, the vermin that has taken root there. Like the overwhelming majority of Lebanese, I have put the champagne ready in the refrigerator to celebrate the Israeli victory.
                              But contrary to them--and to paraphrase [French singer] Michel Sardou--I recognize that they are also fighting for our liberty, another battle "where you were not present"! And in the name of my people, I wish to express my infinite gratitude to the relatives of the Israeli victims--civilian and military--whose loved ones have fallen so that I can live standing upright in my identity. They should know that I weep with them.
                              As for the pathetic clique that thrives at the head of my country, it is time for them to understand that after this war, after our natural allies have rid us of those who are hindering us from rebuilding a nation, a cease-fire or an armistice will not suffice. To ensure the future of Lebanon, it is time to make peace with those we have no reason to go to war against. In fact, only peace will ensure peace. Someone must tell them because in this country we have not learnt what a truism is.
                              MICHAEL BÉHÉ is a writer for the Metula News Agency.


                              RELATED LINKS
                              The Children of Qana
                              Evaluating the morality of Israel's war. Blind Date
                              Why Iran and Israel should pow-wow.
                              Last Chance
                              Why Israel should re-occupy southern Lebanon. web only Out of Proportion
                              In their zeal to condemn Israel, the UN and Amnesty are badly twisting international law. web only
                              Sheik Up
                              Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah's bid to lead global jihad.
                              Just Cause
                            • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                              Mon, August 14, 2006 - 8:41 AM
                              I am sad to say this, but it is true...the UN is dead. The UN has become nothing more than an organisation with cheap words like the G8. While it "talks" about "resolutions" people are dying in Lebanon on a daily basis. If the US can break resolutions, what makes them think that Israel will stop and listen?

                              And where is the rest of the peace loving world? The US who wants to instill their own style of democracy in other countries? Where is Europe? Where is the East? Everyone is sitting around watching the war on tv like its a soap opera...and people are dying.

                              The Lebanese need to disarm Hezbollah. They allowed it to grow, they should take it out.
                              And Israel need to stop its direct assault on innocent women and children. Its sad how the world ignores the human rights abuses going on in Lebanon. Its sad to see Israel do what the Nazi's did to them.
                              • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                                Mon, August 14, 2006 - 10:18 AM
                                You are contradicting yourself on the issue of "disarming" Hezbollah. On the one hand you acknolwedge that it must be done, and that the Lebanese government is responsible for doing it, but you then say Israel cannot defend itself against Hezbollah. When push comes to shove, no one is going to "disarm" Hezbollah other than Israel. If the Lebanese government could have done so it would have done so. But most of the leaders in Lebanon have wisely decided that if they have to choose between living with Hezbollah and being assassinated by them, they have chosen to live. Actually, I do not think this is a wise choice, but what other choice do they have???

                                I also think you have listened to too much propaganda from Hezbollah. Israel is not targeting or attacking women and children. Far from it. They have done more to try to avoid these deaths than anyone else I have ever seen. But what is Israel supposed to do when they are being attacked by enemies who build military bunkers under schools, apartments, and hospitals (all in violation of international law)? When Hezbollah intentionally uses civilians as human shields, it is they who are responsible for the deaths when they provoke an enemy to attack them.

                                As for the UN resolution, and Israel ignoring it, I think it is quite the opposite. Hezbollah has stated flatly that they will not acknowledge any cease fire until Israel leaves. Why should one party acknowledge a cease fire when the other defies it??? All the same Israel has virtually stopped all aggressive moves, and only is responding to attacks (which I think is incredibly stupid -- this only gives Hezbollah the chance to rearm and regroup under cover of a cease fire which they refuse to honor).

                                I know it must be painful to see people die on TV. But why is it somehow acceptable for Israelis to die from unprovoked attack??? Maybe it is because the Israelis have done such a poor job of showing the bodies of their dead, carting them around like so much produce so that foreign journalists can take staged pictures???? In fact Israel could do what Hezbollah is doing and find "cooperative" journalists to take pictures of people who are not even dead? Or perhaps take multiple pictures of the same dead person in different parts of town; under rubble, carried in cart, stretched out in the street, etc? Rather goulish, but oh so effective, isn't it????

                                Unless you believe that the Zionist Entity (aka sometimes referred to as Israel) has no right to exist, and that all Jews should be exterminated... Unless you believe, as does Hezbollah, that the only true joy that can be found in life is by cutting off the head of a Jewish man, woman or child... Unless you believe that God will give you a mansion with 72 rooms and other benefits if you blow yourself up while killing innocent civilians in brutal suicide attacks...

                                Then the issue of who is right and who is wrong must be clear.

                                The only question really must be: How in the Hell can you get rid of the cancer of Hezbollah and Islamic Fascism in the Middle East?

                                If only a few minutes of video coverage by corrupt journalists could answer that one. If only a few false tears and lamentation for the "victims" will solve the real problem.
                                • Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                                  Mon, August 14, 2006 - 10:35 AM
                                  Why is it that when one does not take sides, he is contradicting himself? If i must choose a side, I will stand alongside the people of Lebanon who are suffering from this stupid faction fight which everyones calls a war. There is no war, what you see are 2 sides of thugs beating at each other with innocent people getting hurt. May aswell have been a gang fight...cause it doesnt make any sense. And before you misread again...I said people...not government.

                                  Hezbollah MUST be disarmed, there is no dought they are a threat to anyone they remotely disagree with. And yes again, I did say it should be Lebanon's duty to do so since they allowed Hezbollah to grow within their borders.

                                  And read properly, Israel needs to stop killing CIVILIANS!!!
                                  • Unsu...
                                     

                                    Re: Lebanese American Christian perspective

                                    Mon, August 14, 2006 - 10:38 AM
                                    I think that both Hezbollah needs to be disarmed up to and including complete annihilation

                                    and

                                    Israel needs to remove itself from occupying territory in a foreign "country" (which would be "Palestine."

                                    ~MTS~