Jealousy?

topic posted Thu, April 24, 2008 - 10:11 AM by  Meredith
First of all I believe this is my first time posting here so hello! *waves*

Looking through this tribe seeing threads about bellydancing unsettling relationships with boyfriends/husbands and the bitchyness you can get within the bellydance scene, it made me think about something that happened to be recently. Not too serious but thought provoking. And kind of rambling.

Last week I’m in a club, the local alternative night, doing my thing on the dancefloor, which these days since I have forgotten how to dance "normally" looks quite a lot like tribal fusion with lots of flowy hip and arm movements, bodywaves etc. I get quite a few guys giving me appreciative looks (which I don’t mind as long as they don’t get creepy) and quite often girls that I know will dance along with me, although they are not bellydancers themselves. I take all this as a complement and I love being able to do this kind of stuff. Bellydance has helped with my self esteem so much so I now feel it is okay for me to move my body and be proud of it.

Of course, for every appreciative comment or look, there is the always the flipside, isn’t there?

I am dancing and I look up, and there is this girl looking at me. A girl I know and quite frankly cannot stand. She has no self-respect. She’s one of those girls that CRAVES attention. She doesn’t feel whole unless she’s in a relationship and when she is in one she still plays around with other guys. I could slap her; the guy she is with now is such a sweetie! He looks so sad when she ignores him in favour of someone else.

But I digress.

She is looking at me with this weird expression, something I can’t quite place, but there is no doubt her attention is fixed on me. A little weirded out, I continue dancing and occasionally catch her looking at me at odd times throughout the night. My boyfriend, who was up on the dancefloor with me most of the time, confirmed that she was really staring at me.

The next day I go over to a friends flat, this girl stays there as well. As I walk in (she’s sitting on her boyfriend’s lap and ignoring him . . . I didn’t even realise that was possible) she immediately greets me and compliments me on my belt, asking if it’s one of my bellydancing belts. As I smile and say no, my bellydance belts have more bells (ooh alliteration) on them, I look up. That look again.

Then it hit me. The look was hard to place because it was a mixture of emotions. I can read people well, and it’s easier to see out of the dark club. It was a mixture of jealousy and scorn. Sort of admiration with just a touch of a sneer. Makes sense I suppose. This girl usually resorts to grind-dancing and/or caressing her own breasts on the dancefloor. I kid you not. She cannot dance and needs attention. ANY attention.

Part of me wants to point her in the direction of a bellydance instructor so she can gain some self-respect and maybe improve her dance style, but another part of me is afraid she would then end up trying to dance with me.

So, anyone here have a similar experience? Other non-dancers getting on your case ‘cause they wish they could move it like you? ;)
posted by:
Meredith
United Kingdom
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Thu, April 24, 2008 - 10:31 AM
    Your situation is a little more personal than mine but I do get the looks on the dance floor from the girls whose attention I am stealing because the non belly dance crowd is intrigued by what I am doing. I just let it roll off my back.

    I think you should direct this girl to an instructor. Maybe she can turn that need for attention into a positive by dancing at haflas, festivals, and competitions.
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Thu, April 24, 2008 - 10:41 AM
      Yeah . . . I just re-read my post and it does seem a little catty. Heh . . . oops.

      I think I will suggest she takes up bellydance, in fact I've been encouraging anyone who will listen to give it a go. Some girls are interested, others no matter how much you encourage them will decide without even trying that they "could never do something like that". I am not an amazing dancer by any means, but I put a lot of feeling into dancing and people remark that I look very confident on the dancefloor, which is news to me.

      The problem is I don't think she would want to. Along with the jealousy there is scorn. It's like she's envious of it, but at the same time totally dismissive.

      I'll run it past her anyway, thanks for the suggestion. :)
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Thu, April 24, 2008 - 10:42 AM
    I think you've touched on a much wider subject that you realized! I know the kind of person that you've decribed here and to be honest, I really understand where she is coming from. A girl (or guy, that happens too) like you have decribed constantly needs attention. There is something deep-seeded in them that makes them feel worthless if they are not being admired and/or paid attention too. They honestly feel they are worth NOTHING if they aren't being noticed. This is a very deep problem for a lot of women. When I was in my late teens and early twenties, I was posessed of the kind of body that garners appreciative looks REGARDLESS of what I wore. I am not saying this to be arrogant nor can I take the credit for looking the way I did...that was all in my parents genes. Because of the way I was built I saw a lot of those looks from other women, even when I WASN'T trying to be noticed. At the core, I'm a little shy and uncomfortable with being stared at and its gotten worse as I've gotten older. Now, to your specific situation:

    The girl in question is just like you've described, desperate for attention, the more the better regardless of who she hurts in the process. On the outside this just looks like self-centeredness and it IS but there's a compulsion so strong in her to behave this way that she would be completely lost if she didn't. She wants to be like you because she sees you getting positive attention and NOT having to act slutty to get it. She wants to be able to do that but she doesn't know how. She's probably so grippingly insecure that she can't handle criticism of having someone be "better" than she is at something. She is a creature of constant competition and she would probably even be your friend provided there weren't any males in the vicinity. Seeing your dance, and dance WELL, and get attention for dancing WELL and being classy about it probably just frustrates her to no end. She can't compete with you on that level (as you stated that her "dancing" tends to involve a lot of grinding and self-groping) and it bothers her. Honestly, she probably wants YOUR approval in a way as well, because even though you aren't a guy, you're giving her the approval that she needs. Now that I'm done analyzing a woman I've never met, let me move on. *grin*

    The question is "should you point her to a dance teacher" and that's a sticky one. I would say yes IF you do it privately and IF you bring it up in a way that doesn't make her feel on the defensive. Something like "You should check out so-and-so's class, it's really a lot of fun!" But if you do suggest it, be gentle and remember that even a hint of criticism or competitiveness is going to make her get even bitchier to you!

    That's my two cents!
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Thu, April 24, 2008 - 10:46 AM
      As to the scorn, that's a front. She probably hides her insecurity behind scorn because it doesn't make her look as vulnerable.
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Thu, April 24, 2008 - 10:55 AM
      For someone you never met, you did a pretty good job of analyzing her. ;)

      Some very good points there, and yes I will exercise tact when telling her about classes. The last thing I need is to have a confrontation about how she needs to learn how to dance.

      As an aside I too have been blessed with lucky genes. God bless being naturally slender with curves.
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Thu, April 24, 2008 - 10:51 AM
    Hmmm, interesting subject Meredith. I can only talk about my own experiences-
    I have found that some non-dancers give off bad vibes (I really pick up on "vibes." They can make me REALLY uncomfortable if someone else is seething or otherwise in a non-positive state of mind). They do that to anyone who can dance though. It seems like they think that if you really enjoy dancing than you must be trying to show off. My boyfriend can tear up the dance floor and he gets that a lot - the "you really think you're hot shit, don't you?" attitude. LOL, but then I do think he's hot shit. ;-)
    But really, I get just as much maybe even more bad vibes from other bellydancers. There's a lot of bellydancers out here and it's very popular at the clubs right now. If I know the dancers really well then there's no problem, but the one's that I don't...they just sit there, looking very unhappy, not smiling, just glaring. And I always wonder, why stay at the club if you're just gonna glare and dance to maybe one or two songs an hour? I don't know. Maybe they think we're trying to show off? We're not. The club is considered to be one of our weekly workout days, so you really gotta push it. Maybe they're just nervous in crowds and can't smile? I've tried smiling at them but it is never returned. (Heh heh, I laugh a lot when I dance.) Too bad really, I really like meeting new people (total social butterfly).
    Plus, you've always got the clique thing going on between different dance styles which really doesn't help anybody.
    So, I don't know what to say. It seems to be everywhere though, eh? :-/
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Thu, April 24, 2008 - 11:00 AM
      I seem to be the only bellydancer in these parts, which probably doesn't help because no-one else dances like that here. I hope people don't think I'm just showing off.

      The whole competition / cliquey thing with bellydancers is just irritating.
      • Re: Jealousy?

        Thu, April 24, 2008 - 12:01 PM
        Yes, unfortunately this kind of thing happens in and out of clubs.

        In: Was dancing with my friend/tribal instructor at a night club (like you said... 'regular' dancing has alot of bellydance elements in it). Our S.O's were on the side talking and watching when this person comes up to us and says "Why are you dancing like that.... your NOT in a (music) video!" Talk about catty. Then just walked away. My friend and I looked at each other, shrugged and kept on dancing.

        Out: Trying to get bellydancing accepted in the small town, for the past 4 years I've danced at a local arts and crafts fair of sorts. Each year I've had someone say something rude or tasteless to me. Last year I danced by myself in the morning and my wonderful students danced with me in the afternoon....... the association that puts on the event had 11 complaints about the bellydancers. *rolls eyes* I can only guess that they were from women by what those complaints actually were.

        For the most part, people act out of jealousy and ignorance. Even when we as bellydancers try to educate them, there are some who still have their minds set and refuse to change how they view us as dancers and the dance itself.
        • Re: Jealousy?

          Fri, April 25, 2008 - 8:18 AM
          I'm guessing the complaints were something along the lines of "tasteless" or "inappropriate". It's ridiculous really. People don't seem to be very comfortable with women moving their bodies, especially hips or chest, or if they do it is automatically labeled overly sexual or trashy. I will see myself doing a shimmy, an ignorant guy will just see me shakin' my ass. :/
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Thu, April 24, 2008 - 12:05 PM
    I would say point her to the nearest teacher, and reach out to her in a way she might be craving. I find that overtly sexual people are at their core lonely and insecure. Her actions may be her way of reaching out to someone whom she can't charm with her sexuality. If I were you I would take the high road, if it doesn't end well at least you know you tried your best and there was nothing more you could do, if it does end well then your efforts will be rewarded. Go out on a limb and take a chance the feeling of satisfaction I get from doing a good deed (even if it goes thankless or unoticed) is a wonderful feeling that often carries me through a bad week or two.
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Thu, April 24, 2008 - 3:44 PM
      I'm not so sure she needs me to reach out to her. We don't even like each other that much. I don't like her because she's an attention-seeker, she doesn't like me because I don't give her any attention. Most of the time she's actually kind of edgy around me, probably because I have more self confidence than her and it throws her off.

      Insecure, yes. Lonely? Hmm . . . maybe. She doesn't seem to have any good female friends, she just concentrates on getting lots of male attention, even when she is in a relationship. It may do her some good to develop non-sexual relationships, but it aint going to be with me. I'm not good with fake, needy people. I tend to end up loosing my rag with them and telling them to grow a spine. ;)
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Thu, April 24, 2008 - 1:48 PM
    People who are uncomfortable with themselves and unwilling to face that are often unsettled by people who are very comfortable with themselves. It's a mental challenge to them, and a reminder that they have issues they need to face before they can be that comfortable. They don't necessarily wish they could do what you're doing, but they wish they had what it represents. Don't let it bother you, but I wouldn't try to interfere. People have to deal with things in their own time, and trying to help them out before they're ready can often get you into a bad situation.
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Thu, April 24, 2008 - 3:51 PM
      She's definitely low on the self-esteem. I don't intend to interfere big time, like give her a lecture on how she should have more respect for herself and those she enters into relationships with. That is not my place.

      I may still casually mention that there are bellydance classes in the area and that they are lots of fun. I actually do this with any woman who will listen, as I would quite like to get some of my peer group bellydancing because it is incredibly rewarding and enjoyable, and also so I'm not the only one around here. Maybe we could even get a troupe going. :)

      My boyfriend has known her for years and she's always been this way, with no sign of changing any time soon. He's suggesting I act as some kind of catalyst.

      Maybe I'll just mention the time and place of the classes and leave her to it.
      • Re: Jealousy?

        Thu, April 24, 2008 - 4:39 PM
        I find that when I mention how bellydance affected me, women are really interested. If I share how I used to feel, and how I feel now, it helps people realize that it certainly can happen to them, too - that I wasn't just born being comfy in my skin. Then they typically say, "Well, where do you take classes?" and I tell them, then offer to attend an intro class with them so they know someone there and feel more at ease. I've dragged four women into the sucking morass of bellydance, so far... I hope that you ARE a catalyst for her!
      • Re: Jealousy?

        Thu, April 24, 2008 - 6:28 PM
        Okay, I'm a bit different take on this. I don't think I'd give her squat. Not even to point her to a decent teacher. Too many of that type just take it for the sexual content and play up that part of it. I'm not sure I'd want to contribute to that.
        • Re: Jealousy?

          Fri, April 25, 2008 - 8:24 AM
          Aah, and now you hit on another point that's been bothering me, because I am a little worried she will use whatever she learns just to get more attention from guys.

          Oh god now I'm getting a horrible image of her with a jewel in her belly button doing the dance of the seven veils. >_<
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Thu, April 24, 2008 - 7:47 PM
    i would be a little afraid of her dancing all dirty and trying to look like a porn star and people seeing that and thinking that all belly dance is like that-since a lot of them already do. but that's being selfish and offering to her the chance to learn would be much more constructive. she might give it and try and it help her out, or she might think it's too hard. (a lot of people don't realize how involved it can be)
    anyway, before i sound anymore petty, im gonna shut it. ^_^
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Thu, April 24, 2008 - 7:55 PM
      If you're concerned about her turning into a belly-hussy, AND you know the teacher your pointing her to fairly well, you could tactfully explain the situation to the teacher and maybe she could/would emphasis (to the class in general) that bellydance is not about flaunting your sexuality. And maybe she would take a little extra time to encourage her.
      • Re: Jealousy?

        Fri, April 25, 2008 - 1:30 AM
        um, why do you think you should get involved in the first place? Just because it's worked for you doesn't mean that it will work for her.

        If she asks about your dancing then I'd say where you go otherwise I wouldn't get involved.
        • Re: Jealousy?

          Fri, April 25, 2008 - 8:41 AM
          Good point. It may not work for everyone but I thought it was worth a shot to at least get her to try it.
      • Re: Jealousy?

        Fri, April 25, 2008 - 8:37 AM
        The classes I go to are not local, and are full. I know one local teacher (took her class for a while, not my thing) and there is another that I do not know. One of my friends went and it sounds pretty easy going.

        So doing that tactfully would be . . . tricky.
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Fri, April 25, 2008 - 8:32 AM
      Not petty at all, it's something I am afraid of as well. To be honest it is something she would do. She may give up after she finds out it is difficult, but would then just use her unrefined skills to get attention.

      Gah, this is turning into more of a dilemma than I had thought.
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Fri, April 25, 2008 - 2:09 AM
    I'd feel really uncomfortable in your place. People that feel week can be mean, and it is not pleasant to think that there is this terrier watching and waiting until you turn your back on her to bite you in the leg. I would not start to play friends neither, but if there is a studio show of your teacher, I would walk up to her and hand her a flyer and say: oh you've been asking about my belt and so, maybe you are interested in coming. As soon as she'll be among other dancers, you stop being the sole focus of her attention. But never make her feel you don't like her. She herself and many others may be aware that she is a weak person, so probably she isn't getting too much respect anyway. She might be in bad need for a positive attitude shown to her, if you are strong then you can do that without getting too much involved, just a smile, or a positive remark about a detail she is wearing, maybe she'll relax a little.
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Fri, April 25, 2008 - 8:51 AM
      I find people like that more irritating. My self -confidence has never been terrific (due to being bullied a lot as a kid) but I never felt the need to act out and people that do annoy me a great deal.

      I'll just play this one by ear.
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Mon, April 28, 2008 - 3:22 PM
    Greetings Meredith :)

    I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to Jealous/Catty women like the one you described.

    When my Fiancee' and I have gone to a hangout/dance club (in Mississippi), female friends of his (and one ex G/F) have "shown up" and made catty comments.

    I try to let it roll off and be polite (working on that whole short temper thing), and I've tactfully tried to steer the conversation towards local classes or events where they could learn about dance.
    These women tend to cut others down, I feel because of insecurity issues.

    If you stay positive and non confrontational, I think this person will see that she can't rattle you and either knock it off or stop hanging around all-together.

    Stay strong and Happy Dancing :)
    Amber
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Tue, April 29, 2008 - 6:01 AM
    Life is too short to worry about what nasty people think! If this person asks you about lessons, give her the information.It's nice to believe there's a little bit of good in everyone, but nasty people rarely turn nice.

    At least she keeps her clothes on! For a while my boyfriends roommate dated a gal who liked to undress at clubs, the movies, pizza joints, the grocery store, etc...
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Tue, April 29, 2008 - 8:41 AM
      Thanks for the advice, life really is to short to get bothered by the bitchyness of others. I was a bit put off dancing like I do at the club for a while, so tried to phaze the bellydance moves out. Don't work and I felt so much more comfortable doing the bellydancing anyway.

      Also, "For a while my boyfriends roommate dated a gal who liked to undress at clubs, the movies, pizza joints, the grocery store, etc..."

      Yuck. >_<
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 6:18 PM
    Sounds like this girl has already taken too much of your life. When we let people like this get to us we are surrendering our power to them. Be at peace within yourself and do not let this kind of insecure person rob you of one SECOND of your life!! If you must be around her for some reason, smile and be polite - that is all you need do.
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 6:26 PM
    i had a mini realization today (sortta a DUH moment)
    long story short, i realized that we kindda expect anyone we talk to (well, women) to have the same reaction to bellydance, that "i wish i could do that" or "that's so cool/looks like fun" (or the "im uptight and think it's dirty" reaction...) but some people just aren't interested, not their thing. not that they nesasarlly look down on it, they might enjoy watching it, know it's not dirty at all, even respect it, but it's just not their thing.
    (the respect thing doesn't sound like ur girl, but i thought i'd share)
    maybe it's not such a realization for other people, but it's something that i got with other things, but it was hard to wrap my brain around with belly dance ^_^
    • Re: Jealousy?

      Thu, May 1, 2008 - 6:29 PM
      My mom is like that. She can enjoy watching bellydance and know it is a good thing but she just isn't interested in it. I have a hard time getting her to watch videos with me.
      • Re: Jealousy?

        Thu, May 1, 2008 - 8:13 PM
        It's so weird isn't it? My fiance (a drummer!) thinks it's cool, but in a detached sort of way. It's just sort of one of my little idiosyncrasies or something. lol.
      • Re: Jealousy?

        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 5:48 AM
        my roommate is like that. I think she is to reserved anyway, but she will come and she enjoys and appretiates but I couldn't get her to come to class unless there was seriously nothing else for her today and even then she would just watch. I wish that she could see how good it is for you mind... but she probably won't. Which is ok, same with my mom. We took class together, and she really likes it but she doesn't love it. =) to each her own!
      • Re: Jealousy?

        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 8:39 AM
        Isn't that weird? When I showed my Mom an Urban Tribal video she just said, "They look like two slithering snakes." And kind of walked off. ::sigh:: Well, at least they did succeed in their slinkiness. My parents don't even want to come to any shows. :-/
  • Re: Jealousy?

    Fri, May 2, 2008 - 4:34 AM
    Direct her away, you could be changing her life. This dance definitely gives us positive self image and it will change her life! Plus think about how she could then change some of her other friends and introduce them to the wonderful world of bellydance, you could start a movement... And as far as her wanting to dance with you, just let her know that you want to be a soloist and if she joins you on the dance floor, so long as you aren't there for a job and she is moving in on you, just step to the side and cheer her on while she bellydances, showing her that you can support her in this even if no one else will.

    Let us know what happens...

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