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Just curious as to what FCBD and her fans think of all the troupes that add their own combos and cues to the ATS original vocab. Do you view it as continuing to grow the dance form or as breaking off from its roots? I ask because I'm still deciding myself. On the one hand, the FCBD vocab seems fairly limited, compared to the long list of combos and their various cues that I've learned. On the other hand, FCBD is just gorgeous. Simply gorgeous. The "limited" moves create an infinite number of combinations and variations, and they flow and move so beautifully to the music. But then, when I try to "limit" myself in my personal dance practice to what I have on the FCBD DVDs (still don't have Vol. 7!), I always seem to run out of ideas and throw in my Domba moves.
So, just curious as to what other dancers think. Do you like to come up with your own troupe moves and combos? Or do you like the purity and simplicity?
So, just curious as to what other dancers think. Do you like to come up with your own troupe moves and combos? Or do you like the purity and simplicity?
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 6:54 AMI absolutely suggest you take a GS intensive. Those that think FCBD is limited have simply not learned either all the moves or all the variations. Are you a soloist or do you have a troupe? Dancing FCBD style with others is never limiting in my opinion. Even after dancing this style for several years I am totally inspired each time I watch FCBD perform and the GS intensive weekend taught me even more ways to use the movements! I can't wait to perform this weekend!
And by the way....you MUST purchase volume 7!! :) It has some wonderful combinations, new movements and the performance will give you some new ideas as well.
Personally I feel that if you begin including other dance style movements into your performances then it is no longer ATS format. New combos with existing moves are always great and please share them so we can all try them out, new movements I would run by Carolena to be sure they fit with the format, etc. But using other style movements with your ATS movements "fuses" two or more styles and then becomes "fusion". -
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 2:11 PM<<I absolutely suggest you take a GS intensive. Those that think FCBD is limited have simply not learned either all the moves or all the variations.>>
Hmmm, GC was what I had in mind as an example of troupes that add in additional moves and cues. I guess there's a grey area between when it's a variation and when it's a new move... -
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 3:03 PMGS intensive = General Skills Intensive workshop with Carolena -
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Re: Just Curious...
Tue, April 24, 2007 - 10:44 AMOh. Hee hee. I apparently can't read, and thought I saw GC...
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 7:13 AMJust my humble opinion here, and I don't want to start the war of words again..but......ok, I'm not gonna go there. First, get volume 7. There are (runs to get the DVD so I can be exact)...21 new moves on it, and many of them have turns and flourishes too, which add even more variation. Once you learn those moves, you cannot possibly get bored with the millions of possibilities...why, you could do a whole song with Arabic Shimmy w/Arms and Turn, Fade and Circle up, and never get bored for sure.
Second, one of the beautiful things about ATS is that we all learn the same moves the same way, with the same cues. I can take my ATS vocabulary anywhere in the world, find another ATS dancer, and dance like we've been together for years. If you throw in something else not ATS though, that beatiful moment of synchronicity and energy will crumble apart and one of us will be left trying to figure out what the other is doing.
I know this sounds hokey, but I'm gonna share it anyway. At our haflas, we always have a drumming/dance jam circle afterwards. Very casual, just jump in and have fun...At the last hafla, something just clicked. There must have been about 8 drummers maybe, and something like 20 dancers on the floor at one time..OMG, it was incredible...The drummers were drumming in that way that just catches your heartbeat...and 20 dancers were on the floor in this huge circle..and everybody was doing the same moves and cues and circling with everyone having the chance to take the lead...the energy level was just incredible and no one wanted to stop. What a magical moment. Now, all those dancers did not come from our classes...I have no idea where many of them were taught. But the moment was possible beause we had the same vocabulary. That moment was more breathtaking than the show itself. And without the shared vocabulary, it would not have happened. So.... for me, ATS is the only way to go...Oh...and I should say we still come up with our own combos...we just stay true to the ATS moves and cues..no need to pull in anything else..if Susie Que does a Resham-ka forward, she might be moving back with a wet dog..awesome moves, BTW...and everybody knows when I do a Sununda, I'm probably gonna take it into a ChicoFour Corners (but maybe not, so stay on your toes) ..you don't have to let yourself be limited...the possibilities are endless.. -
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 7:22 AMDitto on Deanna and Robin's posts. The thing that makes being an ATS dancer, is totally emercing myself in ATS. And by doing so, I am constantly working on my technique to make it as perfect as possible. Also, I (and discover) the many possible ways to combine moves together. I still have those moments of "OMG, that's amazing!!!" (even after 4 years of dancing). I practice with (and just try to be around) my girls as much as I can to get our techniques as close as possible, so that we can dance as one unit - my troupe - my tribe!!! I don't want to spread myself to thin. By sampling this and that, becoming okay at this and that, I would not be fulfilling my full potential. ATS is a wide, wonderful world that has limitless possibilities, is forever challenging and has brought me so much happiness! Long live ATS!!!!!!!!!!! -
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 7:31 AMto echo wendi's post, i've been dancing ATS for 10 years, and STILL learn new things, new ways to use a movement, it never gets boring.
i also am the type who wants to stick with one things and do it well, rather than dabble in lots of different things and do so-so.
i guess it's really a matter of what works for you.
you might think that the fcbd vocabulary is limiting, but it's only as limiting as you make it. you'd be surprised at what you can come up with, within that 'limited' vocabulary.
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Re: Just Curious...
Thu, April 26, 2007 - 7:07 PMoh Robin, thanks for describing your hafla experience! I could just feel the vibe! Thats why I LOVE ATS! thank you thank you thank you! I hope to make it to San Fran to get GS next year :) wowza! I got chills! :)
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 10:58 AMI really can't add anything to what has already been said so well....so I'll just echo it and say that yeah, you need to get volume 7, and no, I don't think I'll ever get "bored" with ATS.
Anybody else tried a Chico outta Calibrated Spins?
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 12:28 PMI haven't been on Tribe in ages and am distracting myself from work, so thought I'd offer a slightly different perspective.....
No, I don't get bored with FC moves and I don't find the vocabularly limiting at all. However, my troupe, n.o.madic tribal, incorporates our own movements and combos. When we do so, we attempt to (and I think are successful at) incorporating movements/combos that fit with the FC repertoire and that uphold those spoken and unspoken rules that make FC so fab.
Warning: Extreme opinion ahead:
I don't like to see groups who've simply mismashed various movements from various stylings together (FC + Domba +GC + Indigo + ??) without retooling them to all follow a certain standard that governs the look and feel of the entire repertoire of movement. To me, this mismashing is a recipe for slop.
However, I *do* enjoy watching troupes who've retooled various movements and fused them well. In fact, that's how at least a few of the new movements on Vol 7 came to be. Meg and Devyani (New Orleans) took a workshop with an Indian dancer, and then we came home and retooled some of them to fit with the FC repertoire. I speculate that they've gone through an even deeper retooling with Devyani (B'ham) and Tribal Pura. I'm excited to see.....
love.
ali
www.nomadictribal.com
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 12:35 PM<<I don't like to see groups who've simply mismashed various movements from various stylings together (FC + Domba +GC + Indigo + ??) without retooling them to all follow a certain standard that governs the look and feel of the entire repertoire of movement. To me, this mismashing is a recipe for slop. >>
Well put. That's one of the things I love about FCBC performances. The moves blend so well together that, even though it's improved on the spot by many dancers, the entire performance looks unified. I worry, when throwing in moves and combos picked up here and there, that I end up just scribbling (as I've heard it once described).
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 9:59 PMI read on the Australian tribaldance group that Devi Mamak and Ghawazi Caravan from Australia have also developed new ATS moves that have been accepted by Carolena.
Arabic with a turn
The Triangle (new version)
The loco (or crazy) camel. (this is a new slow move).
I think there was talk of them being on a later DVD?
I don't think there is anything wrong with developing a true new move. Something that can be shared and passed down thru the ranks as with all the other FC moves.
I think the moves have to be shown to Carolena and they have to meet the required ATS format/standards.
IMOHO I think they should then start from the top with FCBD teaching them as with all FCBD moves that have come before. That way they become part of the normal FC movement vocab. (either by classes or dvd's ) And can be taught true to the format the world over.
Otherwise it is just a new move done by *insert troupe here* in the style of ATS.
How many out there couldn't wait to get their hands on the new vol 7 DVD? Did you want to just add it to your collection or were you waiting to try all the new Stuff? Bored or limiting, most say no but everyone devours anything new.
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 12:46 PMThis is an interesting thread and touches on a question I've been struggling with. According to Carolena and the FC gals, if it's not FC movement vocabulary it's not ATS. And yet at least one other troupe, Devyani, HAS expanded the FC vocabulary. So I wonder why THAT was acceptable and all others are not.
I'm currently organizing a Tribal Pura workshop here in my town (YAAAY!!!) and one of the master classes offered is this:
Use Your Inspiration Wisely
Movements developed by Megha to fit with the FCBD format and how to make it work.
So does this workshop teach us how to develop/modify our own movements so that they also work with the FC format? And if we do that, are we still dancing ATS, or will it then be something else (Improvisational Tribal Style/ITS as someone proposed)? -
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Re: Just Curious...
Tue, April 24, 2007 - 7:51 AMHi Sharon,
In the "Use Your Inspiration Wisely" workshop I take the class through the process of taking the moves we were really inspired by and molding them into the ATS format. That way everyone can see what parts needed to be modified and what makes an ATS move an ATS move.
As for adding new moves, I took the ones we worked out and felt worked to Carolena and she approved them based on the fact that they were consistent with the philosophy and aesthetic of ATS and could be used seamlessly in ATS improv. Since ATS is the name given to the style of dance FatChance created and still performs, a move needs to be a part of the FatChance format for it to be ATS. We don't just add in other stuff because we like it and still call it ATS whether it fits or not. I stick to the belief that it has to pass the Carolena and FatChance test before it's ATS.
I hope that helps to clarify. -
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Re: Just Curious...
Wed, April 25, 2007 - 8:18 AMMegha, thank you for your answer. It actually clarifies a lot. Even though we have to wait till 2008 (and Carolena hasn't given me a date yet) we're beside ourselves with excitement that you and Carolena are going to come to Mexico to work with us.
As the organizer, I couldn't choose between the 16 or some options for master classes, so I put it to a vote among the most active Tribal Style dancers and students in the community here, and your workshop "Use Your Inspiration Wisely" is one of the favorites. It seems we are all curious about how moves have been / can be adapted into the ATS format.
Your explanation answered some of my doubts. I'm sure your workshop will answer the rest of them. I look forward to meeting you.
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Re: Just Curious...
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 9:50 PMI have been dancing ATS for a long time and have never become bored. I feel that some of the finest performances are sometimes where there Is repetition. (watch volume 7 with the repeating laybacks breath taking!) Also, I feel a "busy " performance can take away, "more" is not always better. Your audience can appreciate repeated movements because there is already so much going on (costuming ect to look at) that they may miss it the first go round. I feel quite strongly about sticking to the roots of ATS. A lot of time and thought, trial and error has gone into this style and that's exactly why it works so well and in my opinion very elegant and poised.
Lastly, by working with fewer movements and doing them well as opposed to doing many and just getting by. Enjoy the process of digging down deep to develope the wonderful nuiances that comes only with time in this lovely style of dance.
Suzanne -
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Re: Just Curious...
Thu, April 26, 2007 - 9:47 AMLike most of the posters here I agree 100% that FCBD format allows for great variation in the way the movements are put together. Sometimes having a degree of 'limitation' can allow for great creative freedom (it makes sense to me!).
The journey myself and my troupe has taken started with 'fusion' and then worked through various other "American Tribal Style" formats and we have now finally come to rest with FatChance with my GS certification. What I have found is that we are now a much more structured group which can dance together effortlessly whether members are beginners or advanced. Everyone loves the simplicity of the structure and feels that this simplicity allows the dancers to just enjoy their dancing. Other formats I looked at seemed to have an awful lot of steps and movements to their vocabulary - I've been dancing for a LONG time and have a great memory for choreography, but even I found myself getting confused! The FatChance format is just pure, simple elegance! Less is more!!
XXXX -
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Re: Just Curious...
Sat, April 28, 2007 - 3:21 PMI love and concur with what everyone has said so far! There's nothing like the FCBD vocabulary of moves! For all you dancers who are quote unquote bored with the same set of moves now's the time to fine tune it even more: what I love about watching FCBD is how precise they are with their movements, their arms are in the exact same place, carriage of the body, stage presence, no sloppy wiggling i.e. the hips are doing 3/4 shimmies but the upper chest is wiggling as well; sloppy execution, pet peeve!
I've seen the bored dancers and more often then not something still needs tweeking and it's never more so brought to the fore until you take the GS workshop intensive and that's when you'll go "ohhhhh". You'll have many many AH-Ha moments. I couldn't believe how many moves I wasn't doing correctly because this dance has kind of become like that telephone game. Moves taught just a litttle different each time that the original move is no longer there!
I am soooo happy that Carolena has become the curator of the FCBD vocabulary and is teaching others to also be "keepers of the moves" or as she put it disciples of this dance. I am a proud GS graduate....can you tell? -
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Re: Just Curious...
Sat, April 28, 2007 - 7:33 PMSooz,
Exactly! These moves take time... just learning the basic "how to of them" is just scratching the surface. There is so much more to them, the nuiances, attitude of the move, posture, and so on... you know what I'm talking about. Refinement can take years. I'm certainly not bored! Add that all together with the improv. aspect.........interpretation of music, zils ect. .............................................................................
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