Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

topic posted Mon, January 15, 2007 - 8:52 PM by  SOOZ
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This is actually a cross post from the Bellydance Instructors tribe:

Shannon in New Orleans was wondering what is the best way to teach students to lead ATS improv so that the students will be comfortable & happy leading. She doesn't want them to feel shellshocked everytime & have bad associations with leading. I wondered this myself.

How do the great ladies teaching at the Fat Chance studios overcome this obstacle with their students? How soon do you start teaching to be in the lead (especially for us teachers who only have mixed level classes)? Thanks in advance!
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SOOZ
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  • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

    Tue, January 16, 2007 - 10:37 AM
    Im not a teacher at all, still a very beginning student, but we start leading right away and I really like it. We just learn a couple of moves per class then take turns going through leaders with just those couple of moves. If anyone feels uncomfortable, they can skip their lead, but most people do it and I think it helps us realize that we know how to do it better than we think we do.

    It also helps that everyone is SUPER nice so no one has to worry about feeling dumb. :)
    • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

      Tue, January 16, 2007 - 11:59 AM
      "It also helps that everyone is SUPER nice so no one has to worry about feeling dumb. :)"

      I think this is REALLY important. And it raises a question for me, but I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll start a new one with my question.

      Sooz, this is a great topic and I can't wait to read what the FCBD teachers have to say about it. In my classes students begin "leading" with short combinations that I teach them rather than real live improvisation. In my level 2 class I teach short sequences of steps, mini choreographies if you will. I tell the students that this is not a fixed choreography but rather a suggestion. After we drill that short sequence for one whole song, I put the same song on and they "improv" on that sequence in duos or trios. In this way they become familiar with the formations and how to rotate the group to change the lead, they get to dance in the position of leader but they don't really have to lead, that is to say they don't have to make the decisions about which steps to dance, but they are leading in terms of timing, how many repetitions, etc. Does that make sense?

      Still, when they move on to the next level, dancing choreography in duos or trios, they all FREEZE UP when it's their turn to be in the lead position. So we have a few strategies to work against that:
      - I have this set of little cards with the names of all the moves on them, one move on each card. Sometimes we play the card game: each student chooses 3 or 4 cards and makes her own mini choreography. Then, when it's her turn to be in the lead she just dances the sequence she has prepared.
      - Sometimes I give them time to make short sequences without cards before they dance in duo or trio.
      - When we do dance true improvisation, I suggest to the ones who are newest to leading to pay attention to what the other leader(s) do(es) before them and then repeat some of their moves.
      - I also suggest to my students to have one favorite step that is their security blanket, so to speak; that is to say, one step that they feel really comfortable with that they can dance for a few counts while thinking about what to do next. It usually helps them to get started when they've first circled into the lead position.

      One thing that many of my students have trouble with is transitioning from one move to another. Some just freeze up in one move and can't figure out how to switch to another, and some can't find the moment in he music to switch from one move to another. I'd love any suggestions on how to drill that particular problem.
      • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

        Tue, January 16, 2007 - 6:22 PM
        Sharon: For the transition problem, maybe dance "Simon Says!"? Put on music with a steady beat but some changes (nothing too crazy) that you know inside and out. Then stand at the front, and "call" the song, matching what you call out with the count. So whatever you call, they change to it (right on the beat or give them a 4 count lead time). So you know a slow section is coming up in 8 counts, at 3-4 call out "taqsim", and they change after 8. Or something like that. And they can also change whenever they want to give it a try. And call leader changes too! Heck, put on something fast and just call it, with the understanding that people will bump around and screw up and start laughing and hopefully have fun.

        Then, get into the group yourself and have students call the changes.

        My teacher usd to drill moves by picking a leader, then putting on music and going through our movement list, picking at random and calling the moves to see if we knew them all.
        • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

          Tue, January 16, 2007 - 8:45 PM
          one of the ways i started leading was in a stagger formation, meaning, you have two rows, and the back row is staggered so that each person in the back is between two of the dancers in the front row, so everyone can see themselves in the mirror. the lead is one step further up from the front line, on the left. when the lead person is done, they step back and to the right, into the next position in the front line, as the person furtherst to the left in the back line steps forward into the lead position. everyone else in the stagger adjusts accordingly, with everyone in the front row moving one position to the right, and everyone in the back row moving one position to the left.

          each person takes a turn moving into the lead and leading a combo of whatever steps were taught that night. it's short and sweet, and gives everyone a chance to lead in a fairly non threatening situation.
          • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

            Wed, January 17, 2007 - 4:08 AM
            The rotating stagger is really good too for mixed levels. This gives the more experienced dancer practice time leading and the newbie followers a chance to follow someone else besides you. Also, for the experienced dancer, they have to be considerate of who they're dancing with. If the rest of the class is beginner level, they have to keep using beginner moves and not pull out more advanced moves, even if there's only one beginner.

            If you're teaching combos in small lead & follow groups, whats worked for me are: tools, repetition and encouragement. Give them the full breakdown of what they need to do, put on a long song and let them repeat it over and over. This way, if someone in the group is shy at first, they may get the courage up by the 5th time of switching leads to actually take it and try it out. And give them a way to get out of the lead if they freak out. Like "turn around to face your partners and circle, if you forget or want to get out of the lead, but don't be afraid to try."

            We all have to start somewhere, eh?

            *;}
  • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

    Wed, January 17, 2007 - 6:42 AM
    Thanks Sandi, Wendy and Kazoo. These are all great suggestions and I'm jotting them down to use in classes. You gals are the best!
    • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

      Wed, January 17, 2007 - 9:23 AM
      I've found it helpful to give a detailed breakdown of the foot position changes going into each of the 3 or 4 moves I put together into a combo for each dancer to lead in the stagger formation. If I prescribe the combo and then walk everyone through exactly what their feet are supposed to do, and when, my students feel much less intimidated. Also, I remember way back in the day, in New Orleans, Ali offered up that when I asked students to take turns leading without a prescribed combo, she would mentally choose two or three moves to do and that took the fear out of it for her. I've used that suggestions ever since.
      • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

        Wed, January 17, 2007 - 11:56 AM
        Thanks Ladies! I humbly bow to you all!!! You're the best!
        • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

          Thu, January 18, 2007 - 10:26 AM
          I use both of the strategies by Wendy and Sandy. But one of the main things I address is students attempting to lead movements that they haven't yet mastered (they are harder movements) or before they can successfully lead the most basic combos. I want to see that they lead this combo or this move at least 6 out of 8 trys successfully over time before they add more. In the Heavy Hips repertory all of our dance movements are categorized as Level 1, 2, 3 and 4 for technical difficulty. So a dancer must be able to successfully lead and follow all level 1 moves before adding in level 2 etc.

          So........ I will often print out in really big type on 3 or 4 sheets stuck up on the mirror or wall at eye level, the movements I want them to use in their improv. I give only 5-6 moves to choose from - this way they repeat and drill the same moves over and over, but they can mix up the order as they please so still have creative liscense. This insures a blanket success across board of the group getting improv skills consecutively over time working up from basic and simple movements to adding more complex repertoire.

          I also have different ATS skills set up for each level. In a level 1 class students are learning cues and how to follow by following me in the Level 1 repertory. In level 2 that is also the case and I begin to drill with them basic combos that are the first learned in ATS. Its not until Level 3 that I actually begin drills of leading and following. My main reason for this is because is the technical mastery of the dance steps themselves that will lead to successful ATS. If you don't have a group that has internalized every nuance of hand gesture, head, weight shift and style of the movement repertory, they will all "lead" the movements just a little bit differently. It is critical that the actual step is understood, learned and manifested exactly the same in order to have the most mesmerizing ATS pods and groups.

          For my eye nothing looks worse than a group that is supposed to be unified and identified as one organism with every hand, wrist, foot and hip moving in perfect synchronicity but in reality is a jilted, creaky, just slightly off and everyone doing the move a bit differently out of sync blob. You can nip this early by really creating a dedication and committment to a clean repertory with very explicit style and technique protocols, then insure all your students drill and learn this before you introduce the actual leading and following. My experience leads me to think the actual leading and following are more advanced skills to be introduced after the relative technical mastery of the groups repertoire.

          I also have a philosophical approach to ATS that I've written in essay form which I explore with my students before beginning official ATS training. They've all come to really respect ATS because I hold it out as an advanced skill - one they get to explore and learn after a certain dedication and time investment in developing basic technique and mastering Level 1 and Level 2 and part of the Level 3 repertory. For the average dancer that is a minimum of a 2 1/2 year investment of weekly practice. Its like what I learned in ballet - you don't get to pirouettes or explore point until you've mastered certain skills, theoretical undestandings and the basics like plies, which by the way are still drilled and perfected at the master level.

          Blessings, p.
          • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

            Fri, August 14, 2009 - 11:51 AM
            I love this...

            "it is the technical mastery of the dance steps themselves that will lead to successful ATS. If you don't have a group that has internalized every nuance of hand gesture, head, weight shift and style of the movement repertory, they will all "lead" the movements just a little bit differently. It is critical that the actual step is understood, learned and manifested exactly the same in order to have the most mesmerizing ATS pods and groups."

            well said :)
  • I know this is an old post but I found it incredibly helpful. Our group is trying to teach ourselves so this type of discussion is invaluable to us. Thank you so much everyone!
    • Something I loved that Carolena did in a workshop (non-GS) was to have everyone in their groups of 3-4 turn to each other and apologize before dancing even starts. We all have a tendency to realize when we do something wrong, and then turn around in the middle of a song and say "Omigod! I'm SO sorry," throwing everyone off. By starting out saying "I apologize for anything I am about to do wrong," in advance, when you have that moment, you just keep dancing bc you know you already apologized, and everyone already said they'd forgive you. I found this VERY helpful when I was still very unsure.

      I also used the trick of deciding, before the music started, what I would do once I got to the lead. It took the pressure off.
      • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

        Wed, March 25, 2009 - 12:58 AM
        Somehow, whenever I feel really confident about picking a few moves as I come into the lead, the musicians or the DJ always magically pulls a major tempo switch on me. Just as I'm thinking I could make the whole room swoon with a Corkscrew into a Barrel Turn into a Reverse turn, suddenly it is time to zill like mad and fling myself into the Reach & Sit.

        I love this thread. The only thing I think I can add is that confidence really will come from preparation. Just keep preparing them with clean cues and technique, lavish praise and honest effective criticism only when it helps, and they will get there!
      • The pre-dance apology works like magic!!

        We recently tried a lottery-style choose-your-move game. I've written two or three moves on each card and put the lot of them into a basket. There are all kinds of jumbled up moves in there. (Some don't go so well together.)

        The beginners can choose a card and dance what's on the card. They quickly learn which moves work well together and which don't always flow so smoothly. And they blame it on ME, not on themselves. So, it's a bit easier to get them to step up and lead.
  • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

    Wed, March 25, 2009 - 10:42 AM
    I am taking notes directly from this thread, and am putting them right into my teaching notebook. Excellent and VERY useful thread!!! Thanks, ladies!!!!
    • I think it's inevitable that leading at first is going to be a scary experience, except to those who are completely confident.

      you just have to be patient, and let them do it when they're ready, I don't push them to lead, I encourage them to do it when they're ready.

      Also, you can't necessarily control how someone is going to react once they get into that situation,-I mean, you can't control whether or they will experience it as traumatic. You can set it up ;as the most nurturing experience in the world, but whatever baggage or experience that person has will color that experience for them.

      All we can do is set up an environment for them to learn. Beyond that, it's up to the individual.
      • For me, the attitude and assistance of the "senior dancers" was just as valuable as my instructors when learning to lead. Definitely encourage your more advanced students to assume a role of senior dance sister :-)
        • Bingo - if the attitude and support from the senior dancers is positive, it's a lot easier to lead and grow. If the senior dancers have long since forgotten what it's like to be learning this dance, and if they thrive on pulling out fancy stuff to make themselves look good, it intimidates newer dancers and makes them feel less willing to take a risk. I've seen it happen both ways and seen the results of each. I second the suggestion to encourage senior dancers to be mindful of newer dancers and help them along in a positive way.
          • I love how this thread from 2007 has been resurrected! It's a great discussion!
            • I absolutely agree with Pacifica and Leigh Anne. Attitude of senior dancers can make all the difference in the world to less experienced dancers.
              • Once during my first year of L3 when I was really struggling for many months, one gal took the effort to cheerfully compliment me and mentioned that I was looking more confident in my leading. I had been about ready to throw in the towel but that one comment made my heart soar. She probably never remembers saying it but it made all the difference to me.
                • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

                  Sat, August 22, 2009 - 10:22 PM
                  this was a very interesting read for someone who is just beginning her ATS adventures in learning :) very helpful.

                  My question is... are the moves for each level written somewhere? I read that there are levels with moves assigned to each level. I was wondering what to expect to learn at each of them. Also, when you take the G.S., do you learn all the moves [i believe i read somewhere else that there are 78 moves?]? Where would I find the list, if there is one?

                  thanks for your input..
                  xo
                  r
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

                    Sat, August 22, 2009 - 10:29 PM
                    Hey girl and welcome to the wonderful world of ATS! Go to www.fcbd.com for the Level schedule and class syllabus. And, yes, when you take the GS, Carolena goes over ALL the moves in the ATS vocabulary. You get a list of all the moves when you take the GS. But also, investing in the FCBD DVD's have all the moves on them esp. Vol. 1, 4, & 7. The other DVD's is putting it all together with zills (vol. 3), make-up (vol. 2) and Vol. 5 & 6 creating your ATS set & classroom drills. They're an invaluable resource! Cheers!
                    • Re: Best Way to Teach Students to Lead ATS Improv

                      Tue, August 25, 2009 - 5:19 PM
                      Thanks you Sooz. I have checked out fcbd site numerous times, but obviously i did not notice the syllabus area. i will go check for it :) I have also invested in the volumes 1, 3, 4, 5, & 7.... i don't know why i am missing 6.. weird. so my partner and i will be using them as often as we can. Plus I will be taking lessons again starting in Sept. and am trying to organize a review workshoppy thing with Tonje before we start back to our regular session. I am so excited, and hope that i am well prepared for my first GS weekend. I did do the 2 day intensive thingy with Carolena a year ago in May, but at that time there was no one teaching ATS-Pura .... so I had no where to continue. Now that Tonje is teaching it, I am making the weekly trek to Vancouver to train with her... two classes, back to back.
                      If all things go according to my plan, I will come to S.F. to train for a week, or so, at the FCBD studio :) I am hoping to combine that with Mecca, and/or a GSTT, if it is being offered in SF during the summer next year :)
                      YAY!!!

                      cheers backatcha, Sooz,
                      xo
                      rhi

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