Car plows into bike race!

**I am not demanding to know why you care...yet.**

Fine, I'll bite. (my reasoning is specific to Seattle, but could translate well to any city.)
I care, because CM purports to be a cycling advocacy ride but by drawing massive public attention to illegal actions, it overshadows the the actions of groups like the Cascade Bicycle Club, who use legal pressure to bring about positive change for cyclists.

**I do not have to take a stand...and, in particular, I do not have to take a stand because you demand it.**

Nice avoidance.

**It sounds like you are looking for someone to blame, someone to make responsible. Not sure why you are doing that...but it certainly appears to be the case that you are trying to assign fault.**

"I don't have as many problems with people who acknowledge that their behavior is irresponsible and are willing to take the consequences of their actions, legal or otherwise" --TMIbo, Wed, June 4, 2008 - 12:10 AM.

You've already admitted that people should stand up and be responsible for their actions, and while you place the aggressive and violent drivers on the scale of "problematic people", you do still have problems with irresponsibility. I've run parade security before, and I know what the first question is when something goes haywire: "Who's responsible for this?" So, if a driver crossing an intersection on a green light tags a few corkers, where will the responsibilty fall? I'd be impressed if the individual standing illegally in the middle of the intersection owned up and admitted that it never would have happened had they actually followed the law. But that's speculation... neither here nor there.


**In any case, I'm not sure why you would want to excuse someone who commutes daily, knows that every month on a particular day there will be a horrendous traffic jam, complains about it, and then, to confirm their own frustration in spades, hops in their car at the self-appointed hour, just so they can pass their own petty violence on to others.**

I'm not excusing anyone; why are you, since it's contradictory to your previous statement? "The fact that someone else is breaking the law is not a valid excuse, in and of itself, for you to break the law." You're using drivers' aggression as justification for the continuance of CM rides, yet the logic is cyclical: CM riders go out and break the law to assert their right to the road, then get in a snit when drivers break the law to assert their same right. So next month they go out and do it again, because obviously no one 'learned their lesson' last time.

I put in 500 miles a month on my bikes between commuting and long distance rides. It's rare that I encounter any driver hostility, and I see the same drivers in the same places every day. If I ran red lights, blew through stop signs, weaved in/out of traffic and engaged in other general cycling jackassery, I'm certain someone would have intentionally doored or hit me by now. Do I follow every single law to the exact letter? NO. I've filtered up the shoulder of a line of traffic, and there was no bike lane. I've ripped through a stop sign at 4am because I didn't see any cars. Do I encourage this behaviour? Again, NO. Especially not in a downtown city center during evening rush hour traffic. Instead, I pay my dues with CBC and help them by working on legal initiatives or volunteering with safety-related events and classes for new riders.

**If you cannot understand the point there is not much more I can add**

What I fail to understand is what imagined positive outcome do CM riders hope will result from their actions? Will all drivers, everywhere, one Friday just miraculously realize the error of their ways because some kid on a bike stood in front of their car? Will city transportation departments suddenly cave in and mark the right-most lane of all city streets as "bicycles only" and separate them from other traffic with curbs and bollards?
So yes, I suppose I am missing the point. I love to ride my bikes. I like to ride with other people sometimes. I don't like when cars pinch me to the curb or nearly right-hook me. I'm not a fan of having been hit 5 times in the past by various vehicles. I still don't see the point behind CM and its actions. Please explain it to me.

A worthwhile admonition but not pertinent to the subject of an out-of-control drunk killing one and sending many to hospitals. There is nothing to indicate any of the cyclists in question were doing anything dangerous or illegal.

Yeah- this was a closed course (rolling closure) for bike racing. They do the same for lemans auto and motorcycle racing, parades, marathons, etc.

Critical mass, and cyclists breaking rules, should not be part of this discussion. If you have a bone to pick with critical mass, take it to another tread- theres' plenty that can be resurrected for that 'debate'.

Why not bring up US/isreali aggression in the middle east- it's just as relevant to this thread.....

**Max said, "What happens when an impaired bicyclist who is so drunk he falls asleep?"

He weaves out into traffic, causing a car to swerve to miss him resulting in a 12 car pile up that kills two people.**

Last year at PBP, no alcohol involved, someone fell asleep while riding and they drifted across the center line and got killed by an oncoming truck. Two others (that I know of) drifted into the ditch, crashed, and had to be taken to the hospital. Sleep deprivation was to blame in these cases, not alcohol, but it's no less dangerous.

Show us the story, please.