I’m looking for a little advice, here.
The situation is, the bf and I have lived in our new home for about 8 months. During that time the HOA, which is run by the management company from hell, has failed to send us the rules, regs, by-laws, whatever of the community. We’ve asked a number of times by phone for those to be sent to us, which they promise to do…..then crickets chirping.
The first of the month, we receive a notice of violation from the hell co. saying we had cars parked on the street, which is against the regs, bad homeowner, stop doing it. The thing is, we haven’t had any vehicles parked on the street. We call the hell co. and they say that they have an agent that drives our neighborhood and reports violations and they reported us. We tell them it wasn’t us and they say “we’ll put a note in your file.”
Yesterday we received another notification saying the same thing, but this time threatening to fine us up to $100 per day the car is parked on the street. The bf calls them again, gets the same unhelpful attitude, no clear answers to questions and “we’ll put a note in your file.”
So the bf has requested I compose a nasty gram to the hell co. basically saying in a nice, professional way that we aren’t going to take their shit. You guys are all so good at not taking shit and hostility in all its forms, I was hoping you might take a look and recommend any nice twists or flourishes I might be missing:
Dear ,
I’m writing in response to your notices dated (insert dates). I deny that the residents of (our address) have had vehicles parked on the street. It is impossible for me to accurately address your allegations, however, since you fail to provide specific dates, description of the vehicles(s) in question and location of said vehicle on the cul de sac in your notification letters. Requests to your office via phone for the information have not provided that information either and have only produced a comment that “a note would be made in your file.”
In light of the fact that your office is continuing to accuse me of violating community regulations and threatening to fine me, I am now requesting in writing specific proof that the vehicle(s) mentioned in your letters belong to the residents of (our address). If you are unable to provide this proof, I request that you expunge from my file any notification letters sent previously and any record accusing me of these violations. I also request, in writing, affirmation from your company that you have done so and that the matter is considered closed.
I will consider failure to address my request in a timely matter and continued notifications or fines harassment. I enjoy my new home and wish to be a good neighbor, but have come to the conclusion that I will seek legal counsel if necessary. I am, of course, hoping to resolve this in an amicable manner.
Best regards,
The situation is, the bf and I have lived in our new home for about 8 months. During that time the HOA, which is run by the management company from hell, has failed to send us the rules, regs, by-laws, whatever of the community. We’ve asked a number of times by phone for those to be sent to us, which they promise to do…..then crickets chirping.
The first of the month, we receive a notice of violation from the hell co. saying we had cars parked on the street, which is against the regs, bad homeowner, stop doing it. The thing is, we haven’t had any vehicles parked on the street. We call the hell co. and they say that they have an agent that drives our neighborhood and reports violations and they reported us. We tell them it wasn’t us and they say “we’ll put a note in your file.”
Yesterday we received another notification saying the same thing, but this time threatening to fine us up to $100 per day the car is parked on the street. The bf calls them again, gets the same unhelpful attitude, no clear answers to questions and “we’ll put a note in your file.”
So the bf has requested I compose a nasty gram to the hell co. basically saying in a nice, professional way that we aren’t going to take their shit. You guys are all so good at not taking shit and hostility in all its forms, I was hoping you might take a look and recommend any nice twists or flourishes I might be missing:
Dear ,
I’m writing in response to your notices dated (insert dates). I deny that the residents of (our address) have had vehicles parked on the street. It is impossible for me to accurately address your allegations, however, since you fail to provide specific dates, description of the vehicles(s) in question and location of said vehicle on the cul de sac in your notification letters. Requests to your office via phone for the information have not provided that information either and have only produced a comment that “a note would be made in your file.”
In light of the fact that your office is continuing to accuse me of violating community regulations and threatening to fine me, I am now requesting in writing specific proof that the vehicle(s) mentioned in your letters belong to the residents of (our address). If you are unable to provide this proof, I request that you expunge from my file any notification letters sent previously and any record accusing me of these violations. I also request, in writing, affirmation from your company that you have done so and that the matter is considered closed.
I will consider failure to address my request in a timely matter and continued notifications or fines harassment. I enjoy my new home and wish to be a good neighbor, but have come to the conclusion that I will seek legal counsel if necessary. I am, of course, hoping to resolve this in an amicable manner.
Best regards,
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 2:15 PM1. Include a request for the neighborhood regulations and guidelines, and state that you have not yet received it.
2. In the line "Requests to your office via phone", say "repeated requests to your office...". It's even better if you can put the dates that such requests were made. Maybe your cell phone has a log?
3. Cut out the "have come to the conclusion..." just say "but I wll seek legal counsel..."
good luck!
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 2:32 PMI've been dealing with a HOA from hell also. I've found out there is no governing body over these bastards and not much recourse except take it to court. Even then these ticks are not bound by much and run over you legally.
Ours has already been sued for several different reasons ( hey and guess what , they tack the costs on to us as owners grrrr)
Best advice... document everything , you may need to go to court.
If you get a fine, pay it then look at how to take it back out of their ass. Non payment can give them a automatic lien on your home.
Many horror stories of people getting fines , not notified and their homes taken for a few hundred dollars they didn't know about.
HOA's are crap. I will never , ever get in another place with one.
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 2:41 PMYes, please stop calling them and do all of this in writing.
Your letter sounds great and the suggested edits by Slade even better.
; )
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 4:50 PMDocument, document, document. All correspondence should be in writing, and include specific details as to dates and times of calls, notices, supposed infractions, everything. Send all letters with proof from the postal service. Don't take crap from these people, or they'll just keep pouring it out. I would NEVER live in a place with an HOA.
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 5:03 PMYeah, what everyone else said. ADDITIONALLY -- as president of our very own HOA --
Your association is BOUND BY LAW to furnish you a copy of the associations rules, documents, bylaws and it will have other things in it like individual plat maps, (shrunken) blueprints of the structures and all kind of other good stuff.
If you bought your residence, you PAID for this - in our association it is $150.00.
If they haven't responded to your calls, send them a formal demand letter. If they still don't comply, go to your city's legal entity that governs them. If the management company is a realty company, also go to the Real Estate Board/governing council with your documented requests and their failure to comply.
While ignorance cannot be used as a defense against all things, you may be able to claim this in your defense if it is a case of parking your car in places where otherwise it would be logically accepted to park your car, etc.
Also, your HOA is bound by law to have meetings at least probably quarterly, including election of board members yearly. I strongly encourage that you as a homeowner in this association attend these meetings where you will find that you can vote on issues and make your voice heard. Other members should be happy to see you there and welcome you. Sadly, too often too many owners don't go to these meetings and the running of a HOA is left to a less than satisfactory management company. You as an association can even terminate your association with the management company and hire another property manager. WE DID and we love her.
Much like the political atmosphere anywhere else, it is rife with apathy. If you don't vote, you have no reason to bitch. You can make a difference.
I'll get off my soapbox now. -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 5:36 PMI echo all the advice given. Your letter was professional and to the point. Add Slade's comments (always sound...Slade rocks!!). The only other tidbit I can offer is that we are in the age of digital photography. You can't even buy a damned cell phone that doesn't have a camera anymore. I would add that if the "inspector" (a.k.a. busybody with NO FUCKING LIFE) allegedly SEES cars parked illegally, he/she should take digital photographs and send them... regardless of whose property the cars are parked in front of.
FYI.. I live in an HOA area as well. For the most part (Xanthea excluded), these are retired folks with waaaaay too much free time on their hands. I am in Phoenix after all! So, yes, they are incredibly annoying. But we have to start putting the burden of proof on THEM! Besides you can't control who parks where if they're not (a) your cars or (b) your guests'/visitors' cars. If someone is parking illegally in front of your home, it could very well be a visitor to Joe Schmo down the street.
Good luck!!! -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 9:30 PMCell phone cameras are the best. When I was a construction foreman, I used mine multiple times every day to document other contractors tearing up our stuff. Not only do they provide proof, I could e-mail the picture to my superintendent immediately. So ask him for some proof of your violations. He has to provide you with some kind of identification of the cars he's complaining about. If it's not yours, it's not yours. -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 12:33 AMAlso, demand this "Agent" supply the license plate of the offending vehicle. Or request they ahve it towed next time as it's illegally parked in your space. What would you/they do is someone abandoned a car out there? You'd tow it and/or find out who owned it.
If they can't give you the licence, how can they insist it's you?
hmm...Maybe Joe Schmoe is cheating on his wife- parking in front of your house to avoid suspicion. -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 7:48 AMWe actually think its the neighbors right across from us. They park on the street all the time and our house numbers are very similar - only off by one digit. I think the idiots are too lazy to check our claim that its not us and get this straightened out.
I don't think they can prove it. I'm so pissed off I'm almost to the point that I hope they haul us in for a hearing with no evidence. Then maybe we can go after them for time lost from work, court costs and harrassment. Also, in the notice hell co. throws out city ordanances on street parking. Our neighbor, who is a cop, claims they have no right to try to enforce city ordanances and levy fines if they are broken. I wonder if we could bring that into the equation somehow......
(Wanders off in a haze dreaming of vengance.......)
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 7:35 AMThanks for the great advice.
The management comapany seems only to exist to run HOAs. I'm not sure if that counts as a realty company? I'll need to do some checking. Meanwhile, we took Slade's excellent advice and included a request for the R&Rs in our formal letter.
The R&Rs are really a side issue. The problem is, they keep claiming that we're parking on the street and we're not. Nor have we had guests or service vehicles to our home park on the street on the dates they are claiming their inspector saw a vehicle. We ask for details and the person answering the phone can't or won't provide them. They also will not give us a name of someone in the company to speak to. They just say a note will be made in our file.
The last notice threatened to pull us in for a Hearing (I'm assuming before a magistrate). If so, the burden of proof would be on them - wouldn't it? I would think that they would be dismissed out of hand if an inspector said "well, I saw a car parked in front of their house" on these dates, but couldn't describe the car or prove it belonged to us. It is a public street and we have no control over who parks there if they are not our guests - which we have pointed out to them before. The neighbors across from us park on the street all the time and two of the side neighbors have had service vehicles in, but we're the ones being hassled. And the frustrating thing is, the hell co. will not talk to us to get this straightened out. Lazy bastards.
Also, we have been wanting to get involved and go to the HOA meetings, but have never received a notice of a meeting or any type of schedule for meetings. You can bet your sweet bippy that we're going to make a push to find out when the meetings are. The bf is considering running for the board, even.
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 12:22 PMDian, It also occurred to me after I logged off to tell you to send all mail *certified, return receipt requested.* And yes, the burden of proof should be on them (I'm assuming they were talking about hauling you into small claims court?). And xerox the letters and any enclosures before you mail them. Obviously, keep the letters *and envelopes* ('cause they have postage date stamps) from any correspondence from the HOA and its affiliates.
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 1:31 AMAw, yeah. We have a HOA where I live and it's ridiculous. Heavens forbid we have a guest park on the street outside our house instead of the parking bay... but retired lady behind us who regularly and admittedly spies into our yard (she actually asked the HOA to cut our trees down to improve her "view" into my kitchen window) and let's her dog shit on the common areas and leaves it? Totally okay! The psychotic neighbor who screams obscenities at anyone who parks on the same block as her house and plays crazy buttrock so loud we can hear it inside our house with the windows closed all night long? That's fine!
Just as long as we don't park on the street or paint our house an unapproved color... Because this is a classy neighborhood!
Ridiculous I say!
There's been some great advice here that I'll be filing away for myself just in case. Good luck Dian! Let us know how it goes... -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 7:25 AMAll this is EXACTLY why we refuse to live in the city. I will gladly pay higher fuel costs for commuting to avoid this kind of b/s. Stick yo your guns and good luck with this endeavor! -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 7:53 AMThat sounds more like living in the suburbs. I never ran into crazy rules like that living in the city.
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 7:54 AMDoes anyone else remember the Xfiles episode with the HOA president who summoned a demon to kill offenders?
Whoda thunk I'd appreciate living in trashtown... -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 10:06 AMHeee! I remember that one!
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 9:23 AMExcellent letter, excellent followup advice. I'd definitely stress not having received the documents you paid for, despite repeated requests. Issue of whose car aside, it's hard for them to use the "ignorance of the law" argument when you can show you've actively tried to not be "ignorant."
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 9:44 AMSend it Certified mail!!!!
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 6:52 PMAnd this is why (1) don't own a gun (2) live on a boat.
Please let us know the outcome.
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 5:52 AMDon't waste your time, pay a lawyer a couple hundred bucks to write a letter for you - perhaps even mentioning harassment, ignoring your statements and refusal to provide the necessary information.
It's very easy for HOA's to ignore the resident. They are for the most part neighbors policing neighbors writing complaint letters and have nothing better to do - especially in the summer than play tattle tale amongst the neighborhood for who's doing what wrong, stoking their sense of sooper speshullness and privilege amongst the rest of the joe schmoes in the neighborhood. I am an upstanding neighbor. I complained about everyone on my block this week.
We suffer endless go rounds with an HOA that has the time to piss and whine about where people park - usually only specific people who have an officer for a neighbor - or someone else who is a the suck up to the social committee types by pointing out how very *good* they are by pointing out how very *baaaaaad* their neighbors are.
The putzes in my HOA have no teeth, as that they lack the tax status to levy fines. They actually can't do a thing besides put a lien on your house for not paying dues and trash your credit.
The other side of this is that our HOA usually doesn't do a thing unless a neighbor has complained about you specifically. So to come at it from that side, when you find out whose car it actually is, then you also find out who's the tattle tale. I would start knocking on doors in the mean time asking who's car is parked there, because "you are about to have it towed to an impound lot to get the HOA off your back because they think it's your car" I would hit at least every other house on your street.
Heck you could even do fliers. Door tag all the houses. -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 6:51 AMSeichi has a idea there about the towing..
Got a video camera? Set that sucker up in a spot to catch the offending bugger if there is one so you can find out who it is.
Catch them in the act if you can, write down make, color, tag # then have that crap towed post haste. Get paperwork if you can, it will be another ace in your pocket against the HOA complaint.
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 3:21 PMid say seek a lawyers assistance right away (they are probably already lawyered up ready to pounce). get all documentation they have sent you and make copies of anything you send them. if you call them, or they call you; try to record the calls. if they demand you pay some fines, either pay them unless, your lawyer works out a agreement with them, or says you dont (as they can take non-payment and turn it against you). the letter you wrote looks good with slades edits, but before you send it have a lawyer look it over.
good luck with everything, i hope you get 'em good for this bull sh!t
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 7:24 AMIn addition to all the advice above, I say hire a sorcerer and hex the hell out of them! Or, if you are so inclined, do it yourself. I have a handy spell or two I can loan you! Also, invoke the law of kharma... what ever the bastards do to you or others bounces right back to 'em. Happens every time!
Good luck with your battle. -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 9:25 AMHey, can someone ensorcelle me so that I get a good job with nice people in new orleans? -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 2:02 PMI'll shake my ass and will it to happen! ;D
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 1:47 PMI like the kharma idea. You have to invoke it? It doesn't just happen? -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 2:11 PMNot to be miss pooping on your parade...
I would NOT advise using sorcery or any other spellwork to bring about nasty things. Karma works both ways, and what you put out comes back. The karmic repercussions wouldn't be pretty.
Its easier to let Karma take its course by following the right path.
Off the soapbox.
I've never understood those HOA's...we don't have them here. I think its pretty stupid really....I mean you buy your house, you own it- how can it be that if enough people on the HOA don't like you, they can fuck up your credit and take your house? WTF?
I think its just confusing, and there is no way in hell I would live like that. -
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 3:29 PMid say seek a lawyers assistance right away (they are probably already lawyered up ready to pounce). get all documentation they have sent you and make copies of anything you send them. if you call them, or they call you; try to record the calls. if they demand you pay some fines, either pay them unless, your lawyer works out a agreement with them, or says you dont (as they can take non-payment and turn it against you). the letter you wrote looks good with slades edits, but before you send it have a lawyer look it over.
good luck with everything, i hope you get 'em good for this bull sh!t
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 4:25 PMHey, the hexing was a joke honey. Karma works every time, I agree.
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Re: HOA from hell….advice on being politely hostile?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 7:02 PM/!\ WARNING: threefold law in effect.
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