appropriate vs. inappropriate

topic posted Thu, December 13, 2007 - 4:40 PM by  jerushah
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I recently had a photo shoot with an amateur photographer, we were doing a trade, photos for his portfolio, and copies for me. I am 8 months pregnant, and was really looking forward to getting some good semi-nude and nude shots of my pregnant body. But this guy put his hands on me during the shoot. Now I have had professional shots taken a few times, and I never had anyone touch my body so blatantly before. It made me very uncomfortable. Do you ever consider it acceptable or appropriate to touch a model's body, and in what situations is it acceptable?
posted by:
jerushah
Portland
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  • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

    Thu, December 13, 2007 - 6:08 PM
    I'm working on a text for starting models. In my conversations with the Art Professors, they stand square against touching the model in life drawing situations. I would expect that prohibition to apply to other types of artistic nude art posing as well--with the exception of body painting art; it's kind of hard to paint the model without touching her/him.
  • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

    Thu, December 13, 2007 - 10:30 PM
    I rarely touch a model. When I need to, I ask first, and in the asking explain what I want to do (move your foot ...).

    The need to manually move something into a pose is apparent by this time because, by then, I've spent many minutes trying to verbally direct her into the pose and it is abundantly clear our communication isn't working too well. These cases are rare, as most of the time models get my posing directions quickly and easefully.

    What also works many times when there's confusion about posing is for me to demonstrate the pose.


    • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

      Fri, December 14, 2007 - 6:55 AM
      I agree some times verbal directions don't work. I also ask the model if it is ok . This is where having another woman present in the room helps also. Sometimes the model will get the pose almost right and need a gentle guide to to make a good shot a great shot.
      • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

        Fri, December 14, 2007 - 8:08 AM
        he did not ask, and he was moving and manipulating my breasts, and touching my belly, which was even worse for me. my husband was sitting right there, and we were both in shock. i can not figure out if this was due to lack of experience or ill intent. it seems a little ballsy for him to do such a thing with ill intent in front of my husband like that. i was pretty put off by the whole experience and have written him a letter. I am also going to get some professional photos done, as I'm sure I look uncomfortable in these.
        • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

          Fri, December 14, 2007 - 8:44 AM
          Touching your arm and touching your breasts are COMPLETELY different thing. Im not picky about being touched, i grew up doing theater. Theater people touch BUT, when it comes to modeling, I expect a photographer NOT to touch me unless verbal directions arent working and i need help AND I have said that I need help getting the pose right or if my clothes need to be adjusted while I am in a certain pose.

          Especially if you are nude, or almost nude, touching is even more innapropriate. If ANYTHING needed to be adjusted he should have asked your husband to move you instead since he was there. He should have known. I would be upset. I think its good that you wrote him a letter.
        • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

          Fri, December 14, 2007 - 9:36 AM
          Most of us trust that the other person we are engaging with has the same high-purpose in life that we do. Photographers wield a power during a photo shoot that can be damaging if not handled professionally. Novice photographers are taught to respect models and keep their engagements professional from the start of their training. Photography as a profession is open to whomever has the desire and drive to learn the craft. Occasionally, socially stunted or naive people venture into photography without addressing their personal social challenges -which ends up effecting their interaction with models and everyone else in the industry -we've all run into them. I encourage models to have a pre-shoot meeting with a new photographer to get a read on his/her energy and discuss what is expected for the shoot. The process of viewing the photographers previous work and reading their bio/resume will give models at least some idea of who they will be posing for and his/her level of professionalism.

          It can be challenging to speak up in the moment when some infraction of your boundaries is taking place -however doing so will bring consciousness to the engagement and allow the photographer to be informed that his actions are out-of-line. Its possible to do this in a professional manner that doesn't contract the creative flow, trusting that the photographer is after great images -that require you to be in your comfort zone to pose effectively.

          If you're feeling the photographer isn't after great imagery but is using the photo shoot to get his jollies at your expense then don't wait another second and end the photo shoot, walk out. Putting your hands on another person against their will is not only inconsiderate and offensive, its against the law. If a photographer doesn't take your hints, and is not swayed by direct instruction to "keep your hands off me" then do us all a favor and report the faux-tographer to the authorities.

          ugh!
      • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

        Fri, December 14, 2007 - 8:39 AM
        Yep, this one is such an "of course" I forgot to mention it above: I always try to work with a female assistant present (even if its one of the model's friends) and I ask the assistant to adjust things or help the model directly. The comfort level for the model is greater -so she can relax into the pose more = better images!
        • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

          Fri, December 14, 2007 - 8:45 AM
          yep, having an escort that you are comfortable with them touching you is always GREAT.
          • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

            Fri, December 14, 2007 - 12:05 PM
            i'm just in shock at the whole thought of it, i can't gather myself to say how dismayed i am by the behavior. either he's an amateurish buffoon or a hopeless cad.
            • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

              Fri, December 14, 2007 - 1:58 PM
              I don't know why I did not speak up during the shoot, I'm hardly a shy or reserved person, but I just couldn't seem to bring the words past my lips. In the moment I was made vastly uncomfortable, especially when he touched my belly. This is a person who says he wants to do prenatal photography, but does not seem to understand how sacred a space a person's body is, and in particular a pregnant body. To be honest I regret the whole thing, and have learned a valuable lesson. I don't even really want the pictures now, I feel that they will not accurately represent my love of my pregnant body.
              • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

                Fri, December 14, 2007 - 3:33 PM
                Don't want to sound insensitive, don't porn shoots use fluffer's to get a person erect? does that require body contact? and how is that different?
                • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

                  Fri, December 14, 2007 - 9:48 PM
                  There is a huge difference between Porn and Art, but even in Porn the Cameraman does NOT touch anyone . This is an issue of boundaries and what is appropriate. In a Porn situation people know in advance what will be happening, and WHO will be touching them. When I am shooting a model clothed or nude, I do not presume to touch them.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

                    Fri, December 14, 2007 - 10:06 PM
                    honestly i in a way related a bit to this query, as fairly recently i did a nude session with a pregnant woman. i ended up arranging her in a certain pose, but with eye contact gesture and nod we arrived at a simple understanding that i was to do what was required for the shot. now let me back up and provide some background. the mommy to be was a dear dear friend of mine that i have known for 6 years and share a great deal of trust. in any other similar situation i would have tried to get her in place with vocal direction or at worst have the safety person (as several of you alluded to, the friend/bf/hubby) try to do so or failing that make eye contact and clearly express what i'd like to do where and why. when i was shooting with a friend (friend an understatement, just call me godfather) the familiarity and comfort level was such that i was able to have the conversation with a glance-gesture-nod. the same level of communication was in place, just an alternate line of communication. and as far as the question of porn/not porn the name of the tribe by my definition should preclude discussions of porn, but in this case it didn't i didn't get any clue before the post that the shoot was anything near porn.
                    • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

                      Fri, December 14, 2007 - 10:08 PM
                      oh and for the record, the shots that resulted were stellar and reflected a genuine rapport between the lenshead and the subject. i am very proud, sad that i cannot show them as most of my best work along these lines i am honor bound to share with none.
  • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

    Fri, December 14, 2007 - 10:58 PM
    Absolutely Never:
    I have been doing figure photography for 25 years and one of the unbreakable rules is never touch someone without asking their permission first. That touch, if permitted, can only be to move hair or to turn a shoulder.
    There must be a wall created between the photographer and the model and that can never be crossed. That wall is the respect for the safety and respect of the model who has trusted the photographer and that trust can never be broken.
    • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

      Sat, December 15, 2007 - 1:07 AM
      After reading some of the other responces, I must say that I was not cler with my previous post. In touching, I will do so only with permission. But, I will never touch something other then hair, shoulder, foot, and so on. Past that, I feel that the model is the center of the art and needs to have her boundries. Even with a friend that I have known for a while, I would not dream of touching her breast to arange tham.

      I can understand why you did not react how you feel you should have either. By sitting down for this type of shoot, you placed a trust into the photographer (as did your husband). It seems that you were in shock and speechless at the time. This is OK in that you were violated and he was out of line. The letter idea is a far better way to approach this then I would have done. I would have tried to go back and kick his ass for doing something like that with my better half. That being said, the loss of trust is understandable and the experiance was bad enough that I do not blaim you for deciding to not do another shoot with another person.

      I am glad that you took the time to ask and not let it fester. This is the first large step in outreach to move past that violation. Yo are a strong woman and it shows in how you are responding to the entire situation. Good job and I do hope that you are able to hold your head high. You deserve it. You have taken the high road in this situation.

      Again, great job on your part. I would also like to commend your husband in knowing that this was wrong and hope that his support in what you do is there.
  • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

    Wed, January 16, 2008 - 1:39 PM
    I often position my models hair, hands, etc - but would never consider touching a breast. I think it's a guess that it's not so much the touching, but you sensed a less than pure and honest intention.

    Sorry this happened. It always makes us in this community mad when we get one of these characters in our midst. Word does get out fast though.

    I hope you do get some good pregnancy nudes done. I love doing them.
    • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

      Wed, January 16, 2008 - 5:55 PM
      I did have some beautiful shots taken with a photographer I have worked with before. I am still choosing my picks, I was very satisfied with the shoot. However, I did not end up doing any full nude shots, only topless. I wonder that I suddenly felt a little camera shy when I never have before. I have had very provocative nude shots taken for my own purposes, and was totally comfortable with the situation. But I just couldn't settle in to my naked skin this time, kind of sad. I never received the copies of my photos from the shady guy, which makes me wonder where they are floating around right now. I guess only fools become wise in the end.
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        Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

        Sat, February 16, 2008 - 8:32 PM
        I hope that you have his information and can get ahold of him for your photos. You have every right to do so. This sounds like something you should keep on...not just let it go.

        Just a thought.

        H.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

    Wed, April 30, 2008 - 2:43 AM
    Unless you already have a 'relationship' with the photog, he/she should never touch you unless it is strictly for the purpose of positioning the model... and that usually does not include 'private' areas of the body. In short... the guy was a jerk!
  • Re: appropriate vs. inappropriate

    Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:24 PM
    next time you might want to try a gay photographer.

    I know you are in Porttland, but check out www.davidkbruner.com, he's a great gay photographer in San Francisco


    ... and NO, you shouldn't have been touched inappropriately but sometimes models do need some help positioning. A good photographer should be able to show you what position he wants you in by either demonstrating it or talking you through it. He should also be aware of what you are capable and comfortable doing. This should be discussed before the shoot begins so there isn't any misunderstanding of intentions or unexpected situations like the one you described.