Fire Arts Education and Equipment's topics - tribe.net

tech poi blog

2009-10-20T01:24:22Z

I am making this post across multiple tribes. I am not selling anything, so I hope no one mistakes it for spam. Rather, I am offering free advice and information. The blog is posted on my profile. Let me know what you think.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

fire performer insurance

2009-10-12T18:25:42Z

Fire Artists of America compared to Specialty Insurance Agency? Any info out there?
Thanks!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

Sept 09 SAFEE meeting notes

2009-09-22T18:22:12Z

Okay, so this meeting of the SAFEE committee was a pretty slow news day.

But one thing on the national scale is the diversification of the Movie industry. 38 states offer tax rebates to movie houses for filming with Michigan topping the ranks at a whopping 40%. Because of this influx, the MI FSOs came to Cali to ask how to deal with films. So, what we can expect to see is more movie business outside California, with people who aren't as familiar with handling fire performers.

So, here's a quick run-down of how it should work.
1) You WILL need insurance. If anyone is looking for codes of conduct, point out that you are required to follow the NAFAA standards as a minimum set of safety standards in order to be covered by either of the main US liability insurers.

2) Find the Assistant Director (or "AD"). they're the one in charge of everything that doesn't get on film: safety, manpower coordination, unions, etc, etc. They're the Alfred to the Batman-director in a film. Typically they'll be the person you'll answer to directly.

3) If the production doesn't have at least one AD (first AD, second AD and third are typical), get concerned. Find a Fire Marshal fast, make sure they're cool with you doing everything you're hired to do.

If you run into one that is completely clueless, It might help to give them the internal materials the SoCal state fire marshal's office is currently endorsing. First is a permit application written by a local fire safety org here in SoCal, the AFA. Next is a checklist that they'll use to make sure all the bases are covered. Both documents can be found in the library, right under the flame heat trials:
http://www.nafaa.org/msds.html

And a final word of caution. Remember, deal honestly with these people. If you're not comfortable doing something, say so. When you have your meetings with the FM, tell them everything. Don't be afraid to mention the particular hazards in your routine (and what you've done to insure safety). Even the most clueless of FMs have still undergone a bit of training. If they sense that you're painting everything as rosy they might start laying on extra restrictions to appease their discomfort.

-=-=-=-

Those performers in California can expect Industry business to primarily fall in the one facet of entertainment that CA has retained: reality shows.

These have their own problems. Most of them aren't backed by the major distributors, they're often sold to the networks 'in the can', having been self-funded by smaller production houses.

Smaller houses are much more likely to take financial shortcuts and expect more than you're contracted. Whenever possible, try to get your specific show and compensation on paper.

Keep in mind that, ultimately, it's YOUR responsibility to secure permits, not the movie house. If you're comfortable renegading, that's fine, but whoever is in charge of the shoot should be aware of the legalities of open flame performance. Often there will be no ADs on set (or at all), so you may need to talk to the director, stunt coordinator, or producer directly.

-=-=-=-

Finally, the question was raised about licensing performers in California. When asked, I suggested the Nevada method of handling this issue seemed the most equitable. Performers are not 'licensed' but are required to register for a small annual fee (about $30). Then, local fire departments may require registrations or not as they see fit. If the performers screw up, it's reported to the state level, so that patterns of behaviour can be established. Problem performers may have restriction put on them or registration rights removed.

I also postulated that any moves to licensing would meet with fairly strong resistance (roughly 30-40% of the standing community). He responded that a single request for licensing would hardly be able to make anything happen. But if our community were to make a push, the Nevada registration process would be strongly considered as a first choice.

-=-=-
Well, that's it for this quarter...
Keep it safe, keep it hot, throw it down 'till their jaws drop.
Tedward, Webmaster NAFAA

Join our discussion list:
discussion-subscribe@nafaa.org

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

Help with a small propane fire cannon

2009-09-15T19:17:47Z

Hello all,
I am hoping to get some help designing and fabricating a small propane fire cannon. I am doing this because I would like to incorporate flame effects into my ongoing steel sculpture projects. I want to be very simple, just a small propane tank with an expansion chamber and regulator. I would love to learn firsthand from someone with experience on this...does anyone know of a good place to go near New York or Boston? (I am in Providence RI). Or are there any technicians in the area that would be able to exchange some knowledge? Any ideas on helpful resources would be great. Muchas Gracias.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 1 reply

solenoids for accumulator....

2009-08-25T06:03:36Z

do you guys use whistle valves out in the playa or do you run off generator/invertors?

if you do use whistle valves, can you recommend a part number and site to get one?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 1 reply

small accumulator tanks

2009-08-25T05:24:36Z

can spent small fire extinguishers be retrofitted to be used as expansion tanks fairly easily?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 8 replies

Color-changing fuel dyes

2009-08-22T00:56:03Z

All of the sites I have found offering color changing additives for fuel (HOP would be one example) stipulate that the dyes be used with alcohol based fuel. Are there any dyes out there that you can use with standard white gas? If not, which alcohol based gas would be the most effective? Will 90% iopropyl (rubbing alcohol) suffice, or should I order the medical grade 99%? Also, I have heard that these dyes will cause your wicks to degrade at an accelerated rate; does anyone have any direct experience that can tell me what to expect?

Thank you in advance!

Jonah

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

Moved item - Wick care

2009-08-20T05:51:34Z

from the FAQ:

"what is the best way to care for my wicks? I plan to use only lamp oil...is it best to let the wicks burn out completely the first time? what about subsequent times? will re-dipping my smoldering wicks after a burn improve their lives?

I've already made wick covers out of socks for when i am practicing unlit.

should i put tin-tape on my fire hoop by the base of the spokes?
any info about caring for wicks or fire hoops is much appreciated!"

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

eating

2009-08-19T17:02:29Z

so ive been getting into eating, extinguishing, candles, contact/fleshing etc. its tons of fun but ive heard lots of rumors about how bad it is for you. does anyone have any no-bullshit actual information? its harder to find than i wouldve figured

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 8 replies

contact + body paint?

2009-08-18T02:21:03Z

What's the best body paint (if any) to use while doing contact fire/fleshing?

I need to be all cirque du soleil-y and would rather not buy allllll the body paints to try them out first :)

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 1 reply

How Bad can Lycra Be?

2009-08-04T12:17:16Z

"We use a naturally fire resistant fabric (85% cotton/15% lycra). The clothing is fire resistant because of the fabric content and the weave. Note: Our clothing is not fire proof, fire dance in our clothing at your own risk."

I found another thread that broached this without any hard evidence or solid debate, and I'm curious; I know that all fire arts come with a caveat of "at your own risk" and part of the art is balancing safety with performance/risk (although safety always wins for me 'cause I'm a wussy boy).

But what is the "safe" level of something like lycra or spandex in a material. If people believe it's 0%, I'll buy that. I won't buy, "I haven't had a problem" because the real answer might include an implied "yet"... I've seen people perform encased in polyester and synthetic feathers, and no one can convince me of the safety level of that.

I just want to get a general consensus of what people think and see any tests that go along with it.

Note: I purposefully edited the first paragraph in order to remove any mention of company. I'm not trying to call anyone out her.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 9 replies

Moved Item - Replacing fan wicks

2009-07-23T08:25:44Z

Moved from the FAQ

how do I make/ replace wicks on fire fans? Yesterday, 2:59 PM
I bought a used set of Poison fire fans, which have wicks on them that are wrapped around both directions with wire (not the type they came with) I would like to make and sew on my own wicks with 1/8" width kevlar....can someone tell me if there is a specific method to do this and how do I attach them? I dont like the exposed wire on the outside the way they are now.

Adam
Re: how do I make/ replace wicks on fire fans? Yesterday, 5:30 PM
There are a couple of ways of doing this.
One is to use kelvar with a pressure-sensitive adhesive (PSA) backing. You need to clamp each layer hard to activate the adhesive, and only use white gas, or so I've heard.

Another is to affix with kevlar thread (you can unravel some of the kevlar tape to get this). You need to have or make a hole in the shaft to sew through. I use this on method on the finger wands I make, documented here: 8stars.org/a/firemaking/wands/

Tedward
Re: how do I make/ replace wicks on fire fans? Yesterday, 5:47 PM
You can also find some good attachment point on the struts of the fan, twist on some wire, then lay one end of the wire so that the kevlar wraps over it. Then fold the wire down and attach to the original twist.

I wouldn't trust the PSA stuff, all it takes is one dip in the wrong mix and you risk having the entire thing come undone. Even agressive glues (like the kevlar PSA) have some part of petrol that dissolves them. Dirty kero has most of the glue solvents, as does zippo fluid, and charcoal starter.

sam ...
Re: how do I make/ replace wicks on fire fans? Yesterday, 7:45 PM
In the past, I've sewn kevlar wicking with black "kevlar" thread that came from a very old McMaster order. true kevlar thread begins degredation at 400F (meaning that if any is exposed, it will be incenerated or loose strength in short order).

You can work around this by making a zig-zag stitch to minimize the surface exposure of the thread, as well as being extremely careful with your knotting.

Recently, I've come across PTFE coated fiberglass thread, which is significantly weaker (20lb tensile, as opposed to 60lb of .025" kevlar), yet retains its strength to 1,000 F, meaning it is barely suitable for wick purposes, and COULD be used as a structural member, so long as it is inspected at regular intervals(always). (whereas, kevlar thread, given its temperature breakdown, should not be the sole structural member of a wick).

Long story short: McMaster Carr, catalogue page 3451. compare items 8800K44 and 8839K23. All sewn wicks should be consider extremely fragile, and treated and inspected as such.

Also, get a curved upholstery needle, ball point works best.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

Fire Levi-sticks,anyone in US make them?

2009-07-19T18:42:03Z

I was wanting to get a fire Levi-stick and I can't find any place to buy them except 1 place in Stockholm, Sweden.
Anyone in the states making these or do I need to just suck it up and deal with international shipping.
I tend to prefer buying from Fire makers I know, so any of you guys making or planning on making these ? Tedward perhaps... * bats eyelashes*
Here's a link in case you haven't seen these before..
http://salza.se/product.php?p=131

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 11 replies

Wicking options for long object

2009-07-18T11:47:51Z

Hey all,

I'm currently working on a piece that has more interesting weight/balance constraints. It involves a thin rod that will have wicking on over 2' worth of length. I want to keep weight as far down as possible and as much of it closer to the bottom edge than the top.

Does anyone see any issues in this logic of thinking?

Also, if I'm really going for heightening my burn length, is there a specific type or style of wicking that will maximize time/weight? Traditional would either be doubling over tape wick and sewing into a sheath or wrapping tape wick around, correct? I have also seen kevlar tubes, but I haven't seen any testing research on this yet.

What are the merits of thin kevlar rope wrapped around the rod? And if I have more wicking at one end than the other, does that potentially get me into trouble over-burning the wick that runs out of fuel first? Or will it manage to wick the excess fuel evenly, almost acting like a reservoir for fuel?

Sorry the post is so disconjointed. Thanks in advance for the help!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 3 replies

US fire prop websites

2009-07-17T19:35:54Z

hey everyone,
i was wondering what websites everyone goes to, to get thier equipment.
i've got Trick Concepts, Luxotica, and of course, home of poi,.

are there more US based sites?
just wondering, just trying to do some research, so any input would help me out a lot.
thanks everyone,
much love and peace
-matalvin-

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

Looking to Buy FireHoop

2009-07-16T17:03:34Z

Last night my friend and i began work on our fire hoops. we did not get far, and i now have even more appreciation for why it is preferrable to buy one!

since it is a difficult task, and more is at stake here than aesthetics (we're talkin' safety! :) ), i have begun looking for good sellers to buy my first fire hoop from. any recommendations?

i am on budget, so i am looking for someone who sells a nice, safe, economical hoop, preferrably with bendy spines--can even be untaped--i do a wicked tape job!

thanks.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

MythMaker is Looking for Adventurers of Passion, Performance and Perception

2009-07-08T23:48:08Z

Looking for Adventurers of Passion, Performance and Perception

Calling all
Sacred Warriors, Dragon Dancers, Wylde Elvin Wizards, Dream Walkers, Livers of legend and Makers Of Myth!!!
MythMaker Productions
The Mytho Theatrical Sacred Circus
Is looking for a few good Adventurers.
The Next Level of the Quest is about to Begin!!

We are recruiting a few new members for the 2009 summer tour season
A 40’ bus of Bards, Artists, Circus Creatures and Sacred Warriors
Will be traveling the U.S. & Canadian west coast in aims to shift culture thru Art.

We Are Seeking:
Spiritual Warriors
Circus Performers
Actors/Actresses
Stilt walkers/Fire dancers
Dancers/Acrobats
Musicians/Artists(Drums, Cello, Voice ect)
BUS DRIVER
Support crew – vending, children, ect..

Management and booking agent
opportunities also available

Key Roles: Bus Driver, Dancers, Drummer

Application Questionnaires available now

Auditions/Training camp begins this spring

For More Info Go to
www.mythmaker.ca

Please send replies to Hjeron through the website

See our new videos On you tube
www.youtube.com/user/hjeron

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 3 replies

wheatgrass

2009-07-08T18:43:18Z

Some time back, people put out the idea of using wheatgrass as a cleanse after fire arts to 'get rid of the toxins'.

Well, I've done some study on the topic, grew my own, and am on day two. And though I must admit it seems to be having an effect, I know this isn't cleaning out the 'toxins' from fire performance. and here's why:

though it still hasn't been established that wheatgrass actually does "remove toxins" from the system, the places that do mention it indicate that they're biologically stored toxins (fat soluable, blood-born, etc). And that's dandy. Let's say it does, and it's better than garlic. Fine. The problem is, the chemicals in white gas, lamp oil, etc are biologically neutral. They're not stored in fat, they don't enter the blood stream. They slide into the spaces between cells and migrate out slowly through shedding. Deep, heavy build-up can cause interference between cellular communications and resource sharing. Organic bio-cleansers can't touch these toxins.

Now, it's true the afterburn soot can contain some biologically active substances, it's more likely that they'll have stuff like Carbon Monoxide. This "toxifies" you by locking onto the Iron in your blood. Usually, Iron connect loosely to Oxygen, allowing it to carry the O2 throughout the body, and release as necessary. But CO connects to these iron molecules and holds on like grim death. A couple of these monoxides and the red blood cell is useless. It can't carry O2 and becomes a useless bit of waste in your body. Eventually, the body passes them out.

Sorry

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 9 replies

Looking for someone to teach me the basics!

2009-07-03T21:21:16Z

If anyone is interested, I really want to learn to eat, breathe, spin and hoop fire! I have for a while now.. In most things im self taught but this is an area where I feel a little professional guidance would do me a lot of good. I want to know the right fuel/oil to use, and pretty much what to do really without ending up in the hospital!

I would be more than happy to pay you for your time :) Im in SF.. if your interested or have any advice please contact me!!

Thanks!!

xoxox

Rawan

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

Please help with question :)

2009-07-02T01:47:19Z

i am a hooper who has hooped with a firehoop a few times, and i am trying to build my own fire hoop. i plan to use carriage screws/screws-all for spokes, and kevlar wicking, etc.

can someone please tell me what kind of hardware i need to affix the spokes to the hoop, and how to do so. i prefer to keep them detatchable, but that is not absolutely necessary. what hardware do i place inside the tubing to RECEIVE the spokes, and how do i do so?

this is the one mystery that is preventing me from building my fire hoop. as i have searched for an answer online and on tribe, i have begun to sense that this info is secret knowledge. please be merciful and let me into the secret society of those-who-build-thier-own-fire-hoops! :)

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 12 replies

Solo fire performances

2009-06-18T19:10:04Z

Hey all,

New to the community. Does anyone have any ideas for solo performances? I've left my troupe because of differences between members. Since then I've gotten a bunch of offers for shows, but I don't know how to put on a one man fire show. I'd like to be able to, but how do you create a flow between sets? I spin staff and poi and some rope dart too (though I don't have one), I juggle (got the Babache and the fyreflis too) and even contact juggle a bit too. Anyone have any ideas?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

From the FAQ: Vapor Tricks

2009-06-14T03:27:27Z

I'm looking for information on vapour tricks - the basic hows, safety and fuel information, and any other details regarding how to carry them off. I am a fire eater, fire breather and fire fan dancer of two years experience, fully insured. I'm based in Glasgow, Scotland and so have been taught to use paraffin (which i believe is a different thing in the states than it is here in scotland) for all of my fire tricks. Trouble is either I'm doing something completely wrong or paraffin doesn't work for vapour tricks - it isn't working for me at least. After being taught the basics of fire performance two years ago I've basically been teaching myself the rest so any help you could give me or even point me in the right direction would be really appreciated, i've trawled the net but haven't had any luck finding help about this. Thanks!

Originally posted in Fire Arts FAQ by Cat from the UK.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 2 replies

self-ignited fire staff

2009-06-11T21:47:35Z

Hi all.
Some idea i've been thinking about for quite a while is to make a kind of mechanism to ignite the staff from the handle, without the need to reach the end and use a lighter...

basically, what I need is a way to create a spark in the end of the staff, of course it requires a some kind of electrical source, but as long as I can put it inside my aluminium tube, I'm ok with it.
Any ideas (Tedward?)

Thanks,
Daniel

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 11 replies

monkey fist for fire staff

2009-05-15T00:32:36Z

hi guys,

I was wondering about the idea of making monkey fists head for my staffs.
There are a few reasons for this.
1. monkey fists burn more time than tube core as far as I know.
2. I think the round shape would look nicer on isolation because it is really the fire that being isolated
3. the whight will be more concentrated on the end, which will make the staff better for contact.

The way I attached it to the staff is like this:
firstI drill a two screws in a cross that will go out of the staff from two sides about 0.5 cm from every side. than wrap a little bit the rope on the screws (to get something to be used as a core to the fist.t. finally I will make a large monkey fist (4 bight) and use the small one on the staff as my core.

what do you thing about the design?

One of the problems right now is that it doesn't comeout really round, becuse the staff is 22 mm width and it is a little bit disturbing, but apart of that it is really nice!.

I would like to hear your ideas to improve it.
Thanks,
Daniel

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 15 replies

Call for Proposals

2009-05-14T16:40:55Z

At the moment the Conference is accepting presentation proposals

International Conference
"Performing Arts Training Today"

October 28-31, 2009

Leitring bei Leibnitz
AUSTRIA

The conference is open to performers from all over the world interested in the research of topical questions and processes in contemporary performing arts education and

training. This is a wonderful opportunity for performers, performing arts educators and teachers to demonstrate their methods and techniques.

PRESENTATION FORMATS:
- workshop/master class
- work in progress
- performance fragment not requiring special technical conditions
- reading/lecture
- any other way of demonstration to the presenter's discretion

SUBMISSION GUIDELINES & REGISTRATION:
http://www.iugte.com/projects/conf.reg.php

CONFERENCE INFO:
http://www.iugte.com/projects/PerformingArts.php

ACCOMODATION & VENUE:
http://www.iugte.com/projects/leibnitz.php

You are also welcome to take part in the Conference as a Participant!

Visit the Photo Gallery of the past conferences:
http://picasaweb.google.ru/globtheatre

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

Are my wicks ruined?

2009-05-08T04:32:25Z

I have a pair of moonblaze wicks that were left out in the rain...they've since dried out, but whenever I light them up, they burn VERY hot, and the flames are huge.

Has anyone ever experienced this?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 14 replies

Fire Photography workshop

2009-05-03T15:38:36Z

Please read and leave comment, the sign up is my blog in the commentary area.

http://people.tribe.net/abjectphoto/blog?_click_path=Application%5Btribe%5D.Tribe%5Be7a1586e-d261-4b3a-b776-70f8511f6a98%5D

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

Byzantine Chain

2009-04-07T18:08:42Z

has anyone outside of minnesota heard of this stuff? it's heavy, but in my opinion just plain better than anything else.....i don't see anyone else using it or hear any mention of it outside of my area though.....so....how has nobody heard of this?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

ancient fire play...

2009-04-05T18:23:35Z

from the other side of the globe,,

http://video.yahoo.com/network/101149635?v=4643996&l=5144224

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 7 replies

Leather Grip Tape

2009-03-29T23:42:55Z

Hey everyone,

I would like to wrap the grips of some of my tools in leather. Does anyone know if there's anyone out there who makes a self-adhesive grip tape about the same width as tennis racket or baseball bat grip tape?

I found some golfclub grips that I thought were exactly what I was looking for, and then I realized they came pre-assembled so that they just slid over the shaft of the club.

I really don't want to have to buy leather, cut it down, and adhere it myself, but will if it comes to that. Thanks in advance!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

Problem with Eating Torches?

2009-03-23T20:25:30Z

I've been eating with torches wicked with roughly 8 inches of 3" kevlar wicking doubled over to form a good sized head.

On my first dipping, they work amazingly for vapor tricks. I was able to get long candles even a good bit into the burn. In the past, after extinguishing, I've been able to redip my wicks how and use them again.

With these torches however, even after letting them cool down for ten minutes, the first time I put them even half way in my mouth, they extinguish; no chance for a candle at all.

Is it the wicking I'm using? Is it the fuel? Any advice would be helpful.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

Fire Staff Grip Tape

2009-03-21T00:40:46Z

'Ello!
I've been using this black rubbery stickyish tape for a while on fire staves that works well after it is worn in, but I am looking for something better.
What tried and true ways is there to wrap a staff with tape? What tape do you recommend? What are your experiences with different kinds of grip tape on staves?

THANKS!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

FIre Fans for Small Hands

2009-03-08T18:27:56Z

I've been long in the hunt of finding a pai rof fire fans I like.
I have very small hands - child size really. In competitve sports, I have often used special order
child size version of adults. Due to this, I've had a hard time finding fans with a small enough grip
they feel comfortable (not unweild, lack of focal control) of the fans..and rings big enough to easily
slide my finger in/out but nothuge..

Any advice from other tiny handed fire spinners/dancers.

I've tried Khaos fans from Trick Concepts - they are the best I've found so far. I love
their size, and small grip base..but the ringers seem awkwardly located/too big.

In terms of my style:

For regular daytime/fun use I own a bright red pair of chinese dance fans... red with a 3"
little flutter fring - I love some of the opening closing moves, and a few more styllized traditional moves.
Then I have a pair of fangs with a 5' long tail.... which i've used in more graceful dance numbers.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 3 replies

safety goggles?

2009-02-25T03:40:28Z

so the other day i gave myself a good whack, luckily only with the soft and cuddly practice poi (tennis balls). i wasn't paying attention, checking myself out in the mirror doing a mere hyperloop when it hit me: is there a good pair of goggles that don't look too unsexy? i like the look of a lot of steampunk goggles, but they might be impractical, limiting periphery vision too much. thoughts, ideas?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

Fire Permit

2009-02-18T20:57:12Z

Does anyone know how to go about obtaining a fire permit for fire arts performances in or around cities? I was asked to do some fire eating during an upcoming bellydance show but am 99% positive I need a permit for that and have no clue how to get one

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 13 replies

Fire Bowls

2009-02-12T21:04:10Z

Anyone out there know where to buy fire bowls? I'm not even sure that's what they are are called.

They are bowl shaped and host a flame. I've seen them used in performances as lighting stations.

Thanks!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

Coughing/lung pain after spinning fire?

2009-02-12T00:50:40Z

I am browsing this and other fire tribes trying to find a relevant post on this, so please point me in the direction of one if you recall seeing it. I've seen some talk about asthma and spinning fire, some collapsed lung issues, but nothing specific to what I am wondering about. Ted - feel free to move, delete, whathaveyou, if I am in the wrong spot here.

After firehooping (outside) the other night I had pretty uncomfortable chest pain and a throaty cough. My lungs actually hurt and felt like there was something sharp inside of them - it was better after about an hour. I also felt very nauseated. For this burn I soaked my wicks with white gas for longer than I normally do (this time I let them dip for 5 long seconds, where I normally just dip them in for 1-2 long seconds), and I spun off the excess per usual. I have only been firehooping for about a year now, nearly every time using white gas, but I have never had such an uncomfortable reaction.

I am wondering if this is common or something anyone else has experienced. Did I just inhale a bunch of toxic fumes? I thought white gas was a 'cleaner' burning fuel and quickly evaporated (comparitvly speaking, obviously, since there is risk involved with all of them). I suppose the main, possibly stupid, question I am really wondering is - should I be concerned or swtich to a different fuel if this happens again?

Thanks~

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 10 replies

UFA regulations

2009-02-10T21:01:34Z

As many performers in the Los Angeles area know, we had a flurry of activity this time last year with a Los Angeles based fire guild. This guild was put together to respond to the NAFAA checklist for fire departments:
http://www.nafaa.org/checklist.htm
The result was the formation of a guild that developed their own checklist, safety standards, and permitting application. At the last meeting of the guild, these documents were presented to the community at large and to select fire marshals, including the state fire marshal, Al Adams.

Since then, those documents have been under review of several fire departments, in that _original_ draft.

I was asked, a few months ago, to gather community feedback on these documents to be delivered to Captain Penn of the LA county FD. He has since retired and disappeared from the scene. Much of his work on this issue disappeared with him, including the community feedback I presented to him..

Now, without that community input, Al Adams is preparing to take these documents on the road for broad spectrum implementation. He is asking for that LA city and LA county consider their implementation, and then he intends to distribute them statewide in California. The last stop may be to implement them as part of the NFPA 160 codes. This will affect everyone in the US, even if your specific city does not follow the NFPA, they often draw "inspiration" from them.

I encourage anyone who is or may become and active fire performer to inspect these documents. They reside on the guild's new website, the United Fire Artists.
http://unitedfireartists.org/download.html

If you have any concerns about them, Retired Inspector Richard Momii is handling much of the local issues for the SFM. Please direct comments to him.
Richard Momii rgmomii@yahoo.com

Please forward to interested parties.

@-->-->---
EJ "Tedward" LeCouteur
http://www.nafaa.org

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 21 replies

Rope Wick Manufacturers

2009-02-03T02:58:31Z

Hello, I have been hell bent on finding a good kevlar braided rope wick manufacturer with a fiberglass core. Can anyone help me out?
Other good information would be what uses this rope has in the industry, what the manufacturers refer to the product as, or additional information on the material make up.

Thank you so much!
Paul

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 6 replies

Duvy chemical question

2009-02-02T21:29:58Z

What would having a small patch of bleach on a duvy do to it?

Would rinsing that spot out with a hose take the chemical with it? Would the bleach itself react with the chemical coating to form a new compound?

These questions are hypothetical but pertinent. I haven't exposed the duvy to bleach yet, so I can't just test it out.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 6 replies

jumbly mambas

2009-01-25T23:52:35Z

hey anyone check out this new fire toys called jumbly mambas...or triple headed fire staves..
please give your opinions ,and if you already tried'em share your impressions ..
pictures are available at jumbly mambas profile.. youtube the name jumbly mamba for demonstrations viewing..

peace, light ,and flaming patterns
ps : if you want to purchase em contact the artist on his profile..
and please remember this message as a non commercial one

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 3 replies

flaming tetherball

2009-01-23T21:41:20Z

so this time around at PDF, our camp is planning on putting together a flaming tetherball. here's our thoughts on how to construct. discuss, critique, whaddya think?

cast iron outdoor umbrella stand/base, heavy as hell. it comes with a threaded base tube that's about 12' high, and comes with TWO locking thumbscrews on the cylinder.

with a decorative filigree at the base, I can pass a metal strap through the stand and secure it to a larger base, which is where a 2X2 or 3X3 plywood sheet comes in.

a 3/4 inch (maybe 1"...I'll have to check my supplies) diameter pipe, about 8 or 9 feet tall.

Pair that with the 3/4 (or 1") inch iron endcap with a swiveling eyelet

homeofpoi's gorilla poi with the longest chains: 33 inches each

i'd connect the 2 chains to have the following setup:
poi-chain-chain-eyelet, so a 5'6" max radius

perhaps alternate the poi each burn
we plan on burning off any excess dripping fuel or blotting before commencing play
we'll supply leather gloves and ideally some sort of head protection
play: catch the poi and swing it around. perhaps a point system will develop
yes, this could whack someone in the head
i plan on limiting who can play with the common sensible rules for general fire play
and we do have someone in the medical field camping with us who'll provide a kick ass first aid kit and stitching skills if needed
i plan on having a safety station nearby with water, damp towels, the first aid kit
and, of course, having a clearly marked fuel dump further away

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 8 replies

Cold Fire

2009-01-22T20:10:48Z

I came across this website http://www.show-bizcentre.com/5nam/ And saw an item listed as "cold fire-for non-destructive burning of fabrics. Use natural fabric only" Hmmmm. Has anyone had experience with this? Could it be used to safely set yourself on fire while wearing all leather? Curious.

2nd Question-recently saw a video of a staff spinner who had large amounts of colored smoke as well as fire coming off the end of his staff. Anyone have an idea of how this was accomplished? Just wondering.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

NAFAA update

2009-01-21T09:03:21Z

Okay, so I had some time to spend on the wiki. We've updated it to the new version available, changed the decorations a bit, and added a new page. Take a peek:
http://nafaa.pbwiki.com/

Also, the lawyer is still working on the incorporation papers to convert NAFAA to a 501c3, but we hope to have that handles soon....

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

Info request.

2009-01-20T19:32:01Z

Okay, I had a strange phone call today with a Boston Surgeon who would like to work with the fire community.

It seems she got in a first time fire breather who lit up drunk and took some serious wounds. Her investigation lead to NAFAA and to me.

After a lengthy discussion, introducing her to a completely new world, she has decided that she can best serve us with a chemical analysis of the various fuels we use. She wants to start with the common fire breathing fuels. Naturally, I know a thing or two about which fuels I like to use and what a few of my friends use. But I want to be as complete as possible.

So, If you have or know of ANYone using a particular fuel for breathing that wasn't made by Lamplight farms/Tiki, please get me a link (here, or personally) to that fuel. ideally, I'd like to send her a list of online retail links where she can procure all the various fuels.

I am most interested in the European "Firewater" and the Austrailian Shellsol.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

Chainmail poi leashes?

2009-01-04T21:04:51Z

I know some people out there are making chainmail poi leashes (Paul, for sure). Would anyone be willing to tell me some info about what size and materials they're using for these? I'm interested in making a set, but I'm not sure what will work well. Is it worth it to use Ti? SS? Aluminum? What gauge wire? What ring I.D.?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 1 reply

Best affordable chain?

2009-01-03T21:47:08Z

Any thoughts on the best quality affordable chain for making fire poi and where i might aquire it in Sf or online?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 9 replies

Looking for a propane fire cannon

2008-12-20T22:53:41Z

A while back I found a link to a web site that sold propane fire cannons,could some one direct me to some vendors or some one who make's and sell's these. I would like to get a set of small ones that could do diffrent kinds of effects incremental bursts or fire rings? any help would be appreciated.
Will.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 16 replies

Kevlar for Poi - K2 vs. K1, and 1/4" vs. 1/8"

2008-12-20T17:22:26Z

I've been spinning poi for a little while and am looking for my first pair. I've probably spun about a dozen different sets borrowed from friends to find out exactly what I like (moonblaze vs. cathedrals or monkeyfists, twist link vs. ball chain, etc.) but the one thing I never thought about was the type of kevlar the heads are made of.

On one site I was looking at, they gave three options of materials for poi heads. Does anyone have a recommendation of what is best and why?

This year I didn't spin poi as often as I would have wanted (about a dozen times), but still will probably only have about 100 burns a year max. I prefer to practice with practice poi, so while I'll try everything with them unlit first, they shouldn't get too much daily abuse. Currently what I'm thinking about going with are 3" moonblazes on 20" twist chain with ball-grip handles. Just in case any of this is important on kevlar type.

Thanks in advance!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 11 replies

Self Adhesive wick (moved from the FAQ)

2008-12-19T21:05:39Z

Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE Yesterday, 11:33 AM
Question: Self Adhesive Wick

What are your thoughts on it? I want to order some kevlar to put new wicks on my fire hoop spines and was curious as to which type would work the best.....Thanks for any input
reply to this post
delete this post
Tedward

492
Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE Yesterday, 12:18 PM
Although no particular study has been done on it, I shy away from adhesive wicks. Generally it's not the strength of the glue (usually rated "very aggressive") but the fact that so many adhesives break down when they come in contact with white gas. This is why NAFAA finally decided to blacklist glues entirely; because so few people were willing to do the diligence to find and use the proper glues the proper way.

Take a chunk of your sticky wick and soak half in one of the fuels you might use (white gas). Wait a few minutes then check. If the nature of the glue changes (ie gets runny, comes off, turns colors, etc) then that glue is vulnerable to petrochems and will eventually fail you. Failure on a fire tool means sending flaming, wet wicking into the audience, or into little corners of the venue.
reply to this post
delete this post
Chad

428
Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE Yesterday, 3:07 PM
I use self adhesive wicking for tools like fire swords that are wrapped but also have a mechanical tie downs (I use and love rivets). The adhesive allows me to wrap the sword easily and has held up for almost two years to burning and white gas. I have not done any formal testing as Tedward wisely advises. Adhesive wicking is almost impossible to sew through, so keep in mind you are going to HAVE to attach the final bit with something else as the end will come up by itself. Additional glue also doesn't work, because the adhesive backing on one side does not allow additional glue to penatrate the wicking and bond. I don't know what type of spines you have, but if they can take a 1/8" rivet, then go for it (although I don't see an advantage from reg wicking). If not, I would suggest using standard wicking and sewing the last bit under. You will still need to attach the wicking to the spine in a mechanically safe manner. Honestly, after doing who knows how many experiments to figure out ways to do this, I would not recommend do it yourself jobs on wick attachments. It just takes a ton of tries to figure out what really works well. Contact the maker of said spines and see if they will sell you just the spines or if you can return yours for cheap rewicking. It will probably cost a little more, but will be a lot less hassle and worry (and will probably last longer).
reply to this post
delete this post
Snow...

139
new post
Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE Today, 12:14 PM
Which wick you want to use to replace your wick depends on how the spines were built. I'd also recomend trying to contact the maker and see if they have replacements, that may be easier. I've come up with a great secure way, but it requires welding. Hoop spines are somewhat similar to fire fans which can be tricky to make a secure wick attachment.

I have never tried the self adhesive wick but was thinking about trying it out for a sword similar to what Chad was describing. Thanks for the info Chad that gives me something more to chew one.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

Fire Fans...

2008-12-17T05:17:24Z

I need to get some. Any recomendations? I won't be using them much so less expensive and lighter is preferred.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 24 replies

Aluminum tubing

2008-12-05T00:14:24Z

What websites do you use to order your aluminum from to build staves. thanks!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 7 replies

Metals used for fire fans

2008-12-05T00:12:13Z

I know the majority are made from steel.

Has anyone tried to make them from aluminum? Is that possible to make them more lightweight?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 18 replies

Light-up fans

2008-12-03T16:09:47Z

Does anybody know where to get them?? This is very-very urgent

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

Isopropyl Alcohol vs Denatured Alcohol

2008-12-01T21:54:47Z

Wondering the difference between the two... I have denatured from some colored fuel we did awhile back, and have some 90% isopropyl from when I learned fire eating. Can denatured be used in indoor settings like isopropyl? Is it kind of the same thing or different?

I am looking to do an indoor performance, and they prefer I use alcohol as a fuel. Curious about the different types...

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 3 replies

Help for European fuel

2008-12-01T19:29:23Z

Hi! I just moved from California to Gremany and am looking for a fuel source for my chain poi. Any suggestions, my poi are growing icicles here!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

Fire Sword Construction Tutorial

2008-11-30T18:52:05Z

http://www.thedeathknight.com/Misc/FireSword/How_To_Make_A_Fire_Sword.htm

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

Fire Play and Asthma

2008-11-25T03:31:13Z

HI I'm fairly new to fire dancing and while I use my fans frequently, I lack general knowledge about fire play.
My friend has recently bought herself some fire fans, but has yet to light them. She has bad Asthma and is wondering if there is any fuel (or anyway) that can reduce the risk of aggravating her Asthma.
Ca anyone help?
Denise

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 7 replies

Rod for fire eating torches

2008-11-18T22:15:28Z

I have a set of fire eating wands/torches that I purchased from Fire By Riz, but I'm due for some new ones. I received the kevlar wicking and thread by mail order. I had read that you could use a metal coathanger to make the wands with, but when I mentioned it to a friend he insists that it's a bad idea, the metal from a hanger would get too hot. Is that true? If so, what should I be using for the wands?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

Greetings and Salutation

2008-11-11T01:56:33Z

First off... im really tired right now, so excuse me for posting a slightly brief post but hello, I am Zii. I spin Poi, but i am interested in just about all skill toys from contact juggling to hooping, and most everything in between. Although i have been to a Wildfire event, I am largely self-instructed. Even in the short time I have been involved in learning though i have been very amazed to see the explosive growth of the community and the growing ease in which educational matterial is available for free over the internet.

Anyways, a pleasure to meet you all. If any of you are spinners in the Rochester New York area let me know, I would love to meet up and make youre aquantance.

Zii

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 1 reply

Just wanted to say hi

2008-10-26T05:13:01Z

I don't know how I haven't found this tribe before.
Just wanted to say hi.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

Fire Contact and Moisturizing Lotions?

2008-10-15T19:03:13Z

So, I am aware of the fact that some lotions can trap heat and cause burns to be more severe. A fire fetish book I once read said you should always bathe/shower before fire play for this reason. My question is, what is it in the lotions that cause this effect?

Reason I ask is because I have a gig tonight which will involve lots of fire eating and body contact, however, I currently have dry/flaky skin on my chest which I would rather not put on display with my act. Are there any moisturizing lotions I may use which will not effect my performance but still get rid of the flakiness?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 10 replies

First Pro Show

2008-09-29T03:02:18Z

I was curious where/when YOUR first pro show ever was?

Late 1999 in Israel I got paid to do a birthday party. My first 'commercial' show was at a nightclub on Rhodes in March of 2000.

How about you?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 9 replies

new fire insurance info

2008-09-12T07:54:53Z

Performers Insurance (5/2008)
Organization Name Notes Link

International Jugglers’ Association $150/year for $1M/$2M coverage. Master policy with each member being listed as an individually insured member under the policy. www.juggle.org/insurance.php

Specialty Insurance Agency (formerly Clowns of the US) $200/year for $1M/$2M coverage. www.specialtyinsuranceagency.com

American Fire Artists, LLC $150/year for $1M/$2M coverage. www.american fireartists. com

World Clown Association $135/year for $1M/$2M coverage. Available to WCA members only ($30/year) worldclown.com/mi.html

Puppeteers of America Member may purchase "a million dollars of liability coverage at a very nominal annual" cost through the Puppeteers of America. www.puppeteers.org

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 3 replies

Is this sane?

2008-09-04T03:08:33Z

So this is my troupe's second year of doing the NM State Fair in Albuquerque. I just spoke with the person who finally got a hold of the fire marshal. Apparently there's a string of things they didn't like about what we did last year (why they didn't mention it at some point during the two weeks we did it last year is beyond me).

I haven't gotten the full list, but apparently they don't care that we have wet rags at all, they want at least on fire extinguisher manned and ready to go at all times during the show in case someone in the audience catches on fire so that we can use the extinguisher on them.

I mean, I don't mind doing what the fire marshal says, and would have been happy to improve safety last year, but this really doesn't sound sane. They had us do a few things last year that weren't the greatest ideas either, but i don't imagine fire marshals are the types who like being told that they're wrong.

Any thoughts?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 9 replies

whips creation

2008-08-21T03:24:56Z

I am trying to learn how to weave a whip. I guess they're called bull whips. any suggestions?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 3 replies

Fuels and toxicity

2008-08-18T20:23:37Z

Either I am not looking in the right places, or this information is just difficult to find.

I have just begun to learn the art of fire eating and am seriously concerned with the the toxicity of the fuel I have been using. When I was initially tought, I was told that eating fire is a health hazard. Period. There is no such thing as a fuel that is 100% safe. Although I understand that lamp oil is the safest fuel to use in fire eating, I have started learning how to vapour tricks, which I was told you have to use white gas for.

I have also been told that white gas is severely hazardous to your health, is carcinogenic, and can cause cancer.

Right after I learned how to do vapour tricks, I ate fire indoors for the first time and later noticed that the inside of my nose and throat were covered in black stuff. I thought this may have been due to holding the fumes in my mouth, but a few days later I ate fire indoors again, and my friend later told me that she too had black stuff in her nose. Coming home from warehouse parties where I had been spinning fire poi and coughing up black stuff and having to clean my nose out now makes alot more sense.

So I have a few questions to ask.

Just how bad for your health is eating fire with white gas? Does anyone know of anyone who has gotten sick from it? Do I have reason to be concerned when I find all that black stuff in my nose? And is this from doing vapour tricks or performing indoors? Are there any tricks or specific fuels I can use that will lessen the risks involved?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 13 replies

Fire Dance Info Site

2008-08-18T18:57:47Z

I'm working on http://www.firedanceinfo.com; a list resource for fire dancers both new to the art & those who've been performing for years. I've been getting a lot of feedback & suggestions & I'm hoping for more! Please check out the site & pass the word along.

Thanks!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 7 replies

Fire Blanket

2008-08-17T19:40:45Z

Does anyone know where to get a small compact "fire blanket" locally to Los Angeles?? I want it to put out my fire jumprope.

Thanks

Sorry if this was asked before......

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 2 replies

Light-ups

2008-08-08T06:37:09Z

Where do you think I might get good light-up poi? The ones from HoP are definetely not bright enough.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

making staves

2008-08-04T15:28:42Z

I am in the process of making aluminum staves and could only find 6063 aluminum, not 6061. I am going to make them anyway, does anyone think they will be less fabulous, functional, strong???? what is the difference, Hardness?
Thanks, Stephanie

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 7 replies

copper toxicity?!

2008-08-03T22:28:42Z

ok, so i just came across a whole lot of bad news about the toxicity of copper when heated....unfortunately, i recently made a contact staff, and had the brilliant notion that i could add weight to the ends by wrapping a layer of 14 gauge copper sheeting around the aluminum pole and wrapping the wick over that. i find that if wick alone(even with oak dowel core) is the sole source of weight, they burn forever, so thought this was a good idea..... what say y'all, is 30" of kevlar covering the copper completely enough? or will it get too hot and cause me to die coughing up blood??! (have not yet burned it!)

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 11 replies

kerosene vs. paraffin

2008-08-03T22:19:10Z

i spin fire poi and was wondering whether ya'll recommend kerosene or paraffin more? and why? which lasts longer and is safer?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

White Gas

2008-08-03T08:16:02Z

Can someone tell me where I can get white gas? I cant find it anywhere.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 12 replies

Bamboo fire staff?

2008-07-30T20:22:36Z

I found a really long bamboo pole cleaning crap out of the basement that was left there by the last tenants. The pole is really straight and the tapering is minimal. I really want to cut it down and make a pair of staves, but there are two obvious concerns:

1. Will it stand up to the heat? I know Bamboo deals with fire well enough, but how well? Is there a recommended way for testing this?

2. How to affix the wicks? Bamboo, I believe, splinters like a sunuvabitch, so I think drilling is rather out.

Any help would be appreciated.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 11 replies

Grip tape question

2008-07-27T00:15:30Z

I have just enough left over aluminum tubing to make a set of swinging fire clubs (ala that awesome french video that got posted a little while back. What would I do without the internets?).

My design was going to be to have dowel running through the entire tube (which are approx 8" in length) and a little out one end. This excess dowel I was going to wrap in grip tape, for fear of the tube heating up the glue and doing bad things to my hands.

I have an old burn mark from borrowing a pair of staves from someone who had a friend make for her. This person thought it was a good idea to use gaffers tape, or something similar, on some metal that heated up quickly. So I have a pavlovian caution about these things (and using tools made by people who aren't experienced). Then I saw these: http://www.trickconcepts.com/prod-Chuck_Torch-11.aspx which looks like it has grip tape running to right up under the wick.

So I figured I'd solicit some thoughts while I wait for parts to show up in the mail. Any takers?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 9 replies

how to attach wick to fans?

2008-07-21T06:27:11Z

I am making fire fans and have a few ideas on how to attach the wick to the fans, but would love some advice from people who have done this before. I prefer the fans with 5 wicks rather than one long flame. If there is anyone willing to share a method I would appreciate it so much! I searched for links on how to make fire fans and did not find any, if one exists please post.
Gracias!!!!!!!!!!!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 7 replies

contact staff

2008-07-12T19:33:08Z

im trying to make a contact staff now but i dont know how well its going to work. Does anyone know a good place to buy a contact staff. If u have any info on it plz reply ty.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 2 replies

New NY Fire tribe - Hudson Valley Fire

2008-07-11T16:55:15Z

http://tribes.tribe.net/hudsonvalleyfire
anyone welcome.
for those pyros who aren't quite in NYC, and not that far Upstate NY.
hope to see some of ya there...

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

Fire Fans on ebay

2008-07-10T08:45:01Z

I am selling my fire fans v. cheaply on eBay: one large pair of angel wing-style ones, and one smaller pair of quarter-circle ones. There were originally bought from FireTrickConcepts (USA) and Firetoys (UK).

The link is here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130237645407
and here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130237646702
If this post is against the rules, my apologies and please remove it.
Thank you.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

Best way to spin off Fire Snakes

2008-07-01T16:54:07Z

Hi All,
My friend just bought his first set of snakes and he needs to know how to spin them off. The one way I've heard to spin them off is to use a paint can with lots of holes in the bottom then suspend that over a larger bucket (holding the handles together) so the fuel falls into the bigger bucket.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? I would like to get a set of snakes, too, and I want to know the best way to spin them off safely and not get fuel all over.

Also, I'm seen people that just tried to let the excess fuel evaporate but I'm not comfortable with.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Much Thanx,
G-Nee

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 13 replies

SuperFuel

2008-06-28T00:36:38Z

As I was going over fuel choices for a fire eating class I taught a few weeks ago, someone mentioned a different kind of white gas. She said that Coleman's adds certain chemicals to prevent rusting and what have you in camping gear (like stoves) but this "SuperFuel" is a filtered form of the same white gas. I would like your opinions on this fuel. Is it a safer, less toxic alternative? Does it make any difference? Has anyone used this before? The URL I received for the fuel belongs to a store that is nowhere near to where I live so I have not managed to get my hands on some to try it out nor have I found an MSDS. Any and all information would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.rei.com/product/721999

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 9 replies

How Many Spotters?

2008-06-11T02:51:57Z

This is a debate that's been raging since before we started NAFAA. I don't think we'll ever get on good solution, mostly because everyone has different ideas, and most of them are hard to easily codify. For example, here's how I feel about it.

Spotters and the need for them vary widely depending on several factors, including: number of performers, the skill level of those performers, the flammability of the surroundings, the proximity of the audience, the availability to the audience (ie could one of them stand up and walk right over to the stage or is there a barrier), the frequency of the act previously performed, the likelihood of new moves or jackassery, and the familiarity with the tool in question.

Lots of factors. Let's look at a few examples.
New spinner (not first time lighting up), practiced tool, medium confidence, trying newish things. 1:1 ratio of spotters.
New spinner, first time lighting up any fire - at least two spotters, preferably 4, one with extinguisher.
Anyone, spinning a substantially new tool (not a slight modification, but something really new) - upwards of 4 spotters With extinguishers.

Pro spinner, just practicing, strong tool knowledge - no reason not to be 1:1
Pro spinners, small group >4, just practicing, no flammables in area - 1 spotter is fine
Pro spinners, med group (4-8), just practicing, nfia, 2 spotters
Pro spinners, small stage with drapes and other hazards, small group - 2 spotters (w/ext.)
Pro spinners, small stage with drapes and other hazards, small group, alcohol crowd - 2 spotters (w/ext.), 2 guards
Pro spinners, small stage with drapes and other hazards, small group, alcohol crowd (restrained behind barrier - 2 spotters (w/ext.)

Novice spinners, small group, just practicing, nfia - 2 spotters on either side of act
Novice spinners, med group (4-8), just practicing, nfia- 3-4 spotters
Novice spinners, small stage with drapes and other hazards, small group - 2-3 spotters (w/ext.)

I once ran across a code that said you needed one spotter for EACH FLAME on stage. That meant that a group of 5 girls with fire fingers required 50 spotters. Thing is, the code was written for 50s belly dancers who were fond of balancing burning bowls on their heads.

The problem is trying to briefly and clearly codify what spotters, how many, and when. Anything short and simple, like 1 per flame or 1 per performer or 1 per show, isn't taking in the wide variance of fire performance. 1 per flame - silly in the case of fire fingers. 1 per performer - silly in the case of many people with one small attached device like a palm torch or candle. 1 per show - silly for most shows with more than a couple of people; let's face it, one spotter simply can't track 24 people no matter how large or small their flames are.

Given that the performer should be reasonably well-trained before going up in front of an audience, I think we can work with something like this:
"Any act with rehearsed performers 1 spotter per 4 performers plus one if in front of an audience, plus one if flammables are present."
This assumes sufficient restraint on the audience whether it's social (like at a black tie affair), with guards (bouncers at a bar), or barricades.

-So, 5 people on a stage with drapes, just practice - 3 spotters (one for the venue, two for the performers)
-same thing with an audience - 4 spotters
-6 people open area, no flammables, just practicing - 2 spotters
-3 people open area, nfia, audience - 2 spotters
unfortunately, it gets silly for the solo performer, in front of an audience, on a draped stage: 3 spotters.
So we can add "not to exceed total number of performers" or something.

I open the floor....

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 24 replies

Ultra Pure issures?

2008-06-08T23:27:40Z

So recently my group bought U.P. Lamp Oil from 2 sources in 2 states, and are having issues with both. The burns are really dirty, and I don't mean a tad sooty, I mean covered in it, the way straight Kero would. It's way smokier than usual when put out too, as if it wasn't enough before.

Anyone else had troubles with it lately? It was bought from 2 places that would have had them for a long while, but I've never seen it go bad. Is this possible? Ted?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

flower sticks???

2008-06-08T22:24:57Z

Any suggestions on how to make them??? Thanx.... PeAcE~

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

fuel depot design

2008-06-05T17:28:01Z

I've posted some pix of the fuel depot that I set up at Burning Flipside '08. This was a pretty successful design.

Not pictured are the puck lights on the back side used to illuminate the soaking tanks, or the warning posters on the front side. The barricade design is a simple variation on one used by Chad Bennet. This stood up in wind gusts up to 40 mph without being staked. It's a sheet of 1/2" plywood cut into two equal sections that taper from 4' wide at the bottom to 3' wide at the top, which are then hinged together. The cutouts for carrying handles should really be located lower, about halfway down.

Those soaking tanks are 6-gallon "oily waste cans." They're designed to be fire-resistant, and they worked: the fuel depot was downwind of the effigy and pyrotechnics on burn night, and embers fell directly on it without incident. The cans pictured are plastic; they're also available in metal, and that might be a better option, as the metal design looks like it would sit more stably on uneven ground, and could even be staked down if need be. The size of the cans means you can have a lot of people soaking their wicks simultaneously, which came in handy for the fire procession. The lids are self-closing. They don't make an airtight seal, and we probably lost some white gas to evaporation.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 0 replies

more about insurance

2008-06-05T08:27:08Z

I've read old posts, I understand clowns of usa (or whatever they're called now) is the standard and I understand it's better to have than need...

I'm interested to hear from people who have *needed* the insurance, to find out if it actually came thru. Or maybe wiggled their way out of coverage?

Tell tell

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 18 replies

How to make 3D death stars?

2008-05-31T18:10:23Z

I want some of these but will be damned if I spend $400+ for them...

http://www.homeofpoi.com/shop/productDetails/Pair-of-3D-DeathStar-oval-twist-FIRE-POI

Anyone know how these are made and can give a decent guide?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 31 replies

liability insurance in europe

2008-05-29T17:52:16Z

Hi, I am looking for insurance that covers fire performers in europe. I check with "www.clownsoftheus.com" but they only cover for performence in north america.

I have search the www without success...

anyone could help?

thank you

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 6 replies

Crucible Fire Fest ticket question...

2008-05-28T18:23:11Z

does anyone know how much the tix will be?
I can't seem to find any info other than memberships on their site....

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 2 replies

cannon ball poi

2008-05-25T23:45:39Z

does anyone know how to make a cannon ball poi? i need to make one that is relatively large (compared to what is available from trick concepts).... i think i have a basic idea of how to make it, but any instruction or advice would be very useful!

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 7 replies

monkey fist question

2008-05-24T02:59:36Z

I have been reading up on monkey fist construction, and I am confused as to what would work best for the core. I was planning on constructin standard 4 byte fists and was wondering what some of you would suggest for a core?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 6 replies

Maybe a stupid question

2008-05-20T19:08:46Z

I am attending a festival about 4 hours away from my home. I need white gas. I was just going to bring it up with me, and then I was reading the NAFSA guidelines and it recommended not to transport white gas. The problem is the location is pretty rural and I am not sure white gas will be available where I am heading.
Has anyone traveled with white gas before?
Is there any recommendations for safety?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 12 replies

Rosebrand Duvy

2008-05-19T07:49:38Z

I saw someone else post about Rosebrand in another thread and I have to throw it out there that Rosebrand, after purchasing 5 or more 50 yard rolls over the past few yeas, has changed their distributor or something and recently sent me a roll of 16 oz duvy that felt more like cardboard than fabric. Completely useless for our application. They allowed me to return it but made me pay the shipping in both directions, plus a 25% restocking fee so I was out around $100 (yes, I spoke with the management numerous times and they would not budge). I had a friend in the theatre biz who has an account with them get the next roll for me, and they sent him the same crap- he had to send it back as well. They finally sent him the product that I'm used to, but it was a serious hassle and I lost time and money in the process.
Beware.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 1 reply

Fire retatdant for flammable clothing

2008-05-19T02:28:15Z

Can anyone link me with the best stuff to use to treat flammable clothing to make it non flammable.
I've never used the stuff before so I"m not sure what the best stuff is.
thanks & peace,
Denise Denise

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 3 replies

Fire Safety manual

2008-05-18T09:03:58Z

The 4th edition of my manual, now for spinners as well as jugglers, is available as a free pdf on the front page of www.foreworks.com. A 28-page printed copy is also available.

There are a number of sites, usually of vendors, that have safety articles or manuals for fire players. It might be a good thing to have them all listed in one place (or have I missed a section that you already have, again, Tedward?)

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 4 replies

Duvetane vs. wet towels

2008-05-17T03:52:17Z

For years our troupe has used the wet towel method for safety and extinguishing tools. I recently purchased duvytane (I can't remember how to spell this) and we have started using it in addition to the towels. As far as I can tell it works just as well and would eliminate the need for water buckets, wet moldy towels (when you forget to take them out) as well as cold hands of safeties. Is there any reason we should have wet towels f we have plenty of Duvatane?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 29 replies

Fire Eating Wicks??

2008-05-16T17:26:03Z

Does anyone know where I can purchase a roll of wicks for fire eating torches relatively cheap???

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 1 reply

fire resistant clothing for safetys

2008-05-08T15:29:57Z

http://www.advantagegear.com/index.php?get=sub_cat&cat=Flame+Resistant+Apparel+and+Raingear&cat_id=20&page_title=Flame+Resistant+Apparel+and+Raingear

found this site and thought that I should spread the word about it here. most of the clothing is in navy blue but some are available in black.

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 5 replies

Copper tubing as an end cap on a staff?

2008-05-05T13:06:32Z

I was wondering if anyone has tried putting a 1" copper plumbing end piece on the end of an alluminum/TI staff? It fits really well, and would be easy to secure in place. I am curious about it. It would protect the dowels from the flame (metal tape wears away at some point) as well as the end of the staff from getting beat up when dropped.

Plus since it adds weight at the very end of the staff it increases centripetal momentum in the most efficient way possible. The further from the center, the less weight you need to produce more swing momentum. I use 8-12" dowel, and have tried staffs with 1/2" by 3" lag bolts and didn't really like it that much.

I am also thinking of putting 2- 4"of wicks to make 8"s of fire, at about a 1-1"2 to 2" thickness. Lots of fire good, especially cause I am 6'4" and end up using staffs that are 65" to 70"s. I almost need the 8" wick.

The only fear is that the copper will for sure conduct a lot of heat, and if it comes in contact with skin it might burn very very quickly. Most of the cap would be under the wick, except for the part over the tip of the staff, and I don't seem to catch myself with that very much, so I think it might be low risk. Though really shitty it is did stay on you for any length.

Any thoughts, feedback? Has anyone tried this or heard of folks trying it?

posted in Fire Arts Education and Equipment - 13 replies