All members may post questions here. Anyone who feels they can give a clear and complete answer should post a new topic and answer the question elsewhere.
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Sat, May 27, 2006 - 5:10 PM--OK first of all how do I get a pyrotechnician's license; i.e. where do I go to get what books and where do I take the test?
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 4:40 PMHow about a tutorial on how to read and understand a MSDS sheet. I've tried to help write some safety stuff here, but MSDS sheets confuse the crap out of me. A good rundown of Flash point, Vapor information, toxic ratings, or some insight as to what OSHA's bizarre secret codes mean.
If it's to much to ask for a general rundown on organic chemistry, if someone could take a useful MSDS (like say, zenstoves.net/MSDS/ultra-pureLampoil.pdf ) and decypher useful parts, that'd be cool too. -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 4:55 PMGood one.. (and appropriately posted :)
I know a few of the items, like flash point, but not all of them. Any chemists out there? -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Tue, August 8, 2006 - 11:48 AMI can help out with the biology section of the MSDS, and some of the chemi. Maybe it would be a good idea to post a sample MSDS and we can help you go through it.
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Making Fire Eating Torches
Tue, August 8, 2006 - 10:04 AMI recently started eating fire. The torches I've used were homemade, not fancy, but did the job quite well. I no longer have access to them, however.
Can you suggest ways of constructing fire eating torches? Whether to use kevlar wick or braided fire cord or a thin fire rope? How to attach the kevlar so that it is secure and so that no metal is exposed, etc? They don't seem difficult to make and I much rather make than buy.
Thanks! -
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Re: Making Fire Eating Torches
Tue, August 8, 2006 - 10:25 AMYou might get a quicker responce by posting this in Fire arts education...
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Fri, August 11, 2006 - 7:05 AMI have been looking for an outdoor alternative to my indoor propane fire ring jump. First, I need to find wick. I have found various prices. I also found a suggestion to try JC Whitney and use the stuff they wrap around mufflers. My jump is rather large and I am not sure how much I actually need to accomplish a good fire effect. Please advise. I only have a week and a half to get this done and I am very new to this.
My current jump is free standing, I have to also come up with an idea for this as well. I can send a photo of my current jump if that helps.
Thanks, Tracy -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Fri, August 11, 2006 - 10:33 AMTracy, this is not a very frequent issue amongst fire performers. Perhaps one of the larger tribes would yeild better results. The FAQ is designed to address common issues that MOST performers run across and new members to the community tend to ask all the time. -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Fri, August 11, 2006 - 3:17 PMIs that a ring of fire that you jump through? If so try wrapping the ring in moderate to heavy guage steel wool. It keeps propane rigs from blowing out. Also seen here.
www.controlledburnreno.com/imag...A.jpg
And who's that Geek with the big wicks in the pictures section? :P
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Tue, September 5, 2006 - 7:30 AMOn very basics of safety:
i've been playing with fuego for years and have been around many seasoned fire players. this weekend i witnessed my first tragedy when a friend lit up his poi in a non-designated spin area (e.g. no wet blankets, no spotter, etc.) and wearing a synthetic shirt which caught on fire. he should be coming home from the hospital today.
can someone post a comprehensive list of very basic safety info such as:
~ what safety equipment should be on site (e.g. wet wool blankets, fire extinguishers, spotters, first aid kit, water, etc...) and what to do with the equipment.
~ what spotters should be looking for and when and how to react (e.g. cotton pants with a quick spark can be put out by spinner, but other contact ignitions need immediate intervention.)
~ what fabrics should *never* be worn while playing with fire.
~ how many spotters to have on site (eg- one or two to help victim, a third and possibly 4th for crowd control.)
any basic posts like this could be very helpful to a lot of people.
it wasn't pretty to watch this tragedy and any info that could minimize the possibility of this happening for others would be great. (Ted, don't you have a general safety website? if so, maybe post a link to it as a "recommendation" in this tribe.
hope all had a blast at brc & thanks in advance for your responses to this post. -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Tue, September 5, 2006 - 11:00 PMHere ya go...
www.nafaa.org/regs.html
www.bearclawmfg.com/safety.html
The real problem with getting too specific with safety is that every venue, every outdoor location, and every environment is different. Then, each crowd is also different, though, sometimes you can narrow it down by types (drunk, tripping, experienced, virgin, kids, etc). Also, there's a little bit of discrepancy about whether some equipment is necessary, afordable, or even safe to use.
Here's a quick example: many people like the convenience of CO2 extinguishers because they can be used many times before refilling, and don't leave a residue. However, some medical professionals say that the cold of the expanding gas can aggravate a burn, making them -less- safe for use on humans.
I encourage you to join NAFAA, help with the regs project, and pitch in your opinions for the next re-write of the codes. but, in the end, all the safety info you will every read is opinion. Some may be backed up by research, some not; some complete in scope, most will never be "complete" though.... -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Sat, September 9, 2006 - 6:23 AMthanks ted, everyone in our troupe now has a copy of the nafaa guidelines and we held a safety meeting the other night based on them. our friend is still in the hospital (1 week after the accident.) we're hoping he'll be home real soon. -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Sat, September 9, 2006 - 11:14 AMI'm sad that, like so many troupes, it took an accident to get you thinking about safety. I'm glad that it DID get you thinking about safety though... :) -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Sat, September 9, 2006 - 3:18 PMlet me just clarify: we're a pretty safe troupe, we just got safer though. the accident happened at a party involving someone who is not a member of our troupe who chose to light up in a non-designated spin area away from our safety equipment. nonetheless, i hear you loud and clear and we are going the extra distance to make certain that it is mighty unlikely to happen again.
one issue that came up at our meeting is what do we do when we're at a party that's not our event, or that we are not performing at and we see someone do something stupid with fire? this is what happened in this instance and it happened as soon as he lit up, before any of us could get to him and ask him what the fluck.
thanks again for your posts.
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Sun, October 1, 2006 - 10:01 AMI have been wondering if there are any environmentally safe fuels that can be used for Fire performances? Something along the lines of: X is to white gas, as bio-diesel is to diesel. -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Sun, October 1, 2006 - 10:36 AMYeah, actually. It's still BD, but it's an ethyl-ester formula being tested at Fire Drums right now.
We've been talking about it in a different tribe:
tribes.tribe.net/bmfc/thre...2e66173658 -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Mon, October 2, 2006 - 4:47 PMI'll post those test results when I get a chance.
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Thu, October 26, 2006 - 7:42 PMis it safe to store fuel in dip buckets (paint cans) for extended amounts of time.
i assume yes, but would like to know for sure.
thanks -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Thu, October 26, 2006 - 9:54 PMIf properly sealed and kept out of direct sunlight, yes, they should be safe. They are specifically designed to restrain naphtha vapors, but in much lower concentrations than what we use (ie paint).
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Fri, October 27, 2006 - 5:17 PMI had an old dip bucket that I forgot about left out in my back yard for about 6 month half full of coleman. The inside was fine, but there was a bit of rust on the outside (it was only partially shielded from rain). I assume it would eventually rust through and fail, but the fuel didn't seem to be an isuue
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Fri, April 27, 2007 - 9:58 AMHI, Tedward!
Has there been any new, updated info we need to know on the topic of "Travelling with Tools?" I and my friends are going to Fire Drums next week and want to be doubly sure our poi and things get there on the same plane we do. :)
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Solenoid specs
Sun, August 5, 2007 - 12:39 PM--Working on a friend's art car and he's setting up a couple of torches on the roof. We've got the whole thing up and running with mechanical controls but he wants to 'automate' it; i.e. replace manual quarter-turn valves with solenoid valves. I've got some surplus 12v NC valves with 1/8" threaded ports, meaning an orifice of maybe 1/8". Question: assuming the propane is coming out of a standard 5 gal tank at maybe 60psi do I have an adequate flow to make decent fireballs? Many other questions but not all organized at present. -
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Re: Solenoid specs
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 7:21 AMWish I had more knowledge on this, but I recently had some interesting conversations with a BRC fire fighter friend who admittedly wanted BRC to come up with more guidelines to inspect and educate people on what is safe and what isn't (for him and everyone). What does jump out at me is that you posted propane would be at 60psi. This is way off. The pressure in the tank is dependant on the temperature outside the tank. But I know my fire fighter friend quoted 120psi as a working number. The following website is a start, but plus do a lot more research. This can be really dangerous. Example, if you are replacing the 1/4 turn value with something electronic, you need to put another 1/4 turn value close or at the tank. The screw down tank knob takes way to long to close if something bad happens and the electronics fail (and if something bad happens the electronics would probably fail). Again, I wish I knew more and could help more, but for your and fellow burners safety, please research this well. Also, post some pics of this bad ass car once its done.
www.propanecarbs.com/propane.html
www.engineeringtoolbox.com/prop....html -
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Re: Solenoid specs
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 11:16 AMTo answer your specific question about valve size, "big" is a relative term, but by any standard 1/8" ports will not give you big fire.
You might have better luck asking over at the pyro tribe, though people are understandably reluctant to post a full description of how to make a propane effect. You'll get a warmer reception if you do lots of research first. Chad's right about the 1/4 turn valves and working pressure. I'll add that you actually want your plumbing to be rated comfortably in excess of the anticipated maximum pressure- so though you expect 120psi, build for 200 or 250. And make sure that all your hoses and valves/valve seals are propane compatible (N-buna rubber or PTFE, not EPDM).
Flame effects can be simple, but are also easliy (and frequently) done wrong/dangerously, so please proceed with care and research! -
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Re: Solenoid specs
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 11:03 PM--Thanks, gang. Fear not: all fittings are Parker; machined not cast and rated 600psi or better. Have quarter turn shutoff valve as first fitting coming off of propane tank and no plans to remove it. I stated 60psi as a guess using the old formula of one degree farenheit per pound pressure, based on the theory the system will be used only at night, but poiint taken: I'll plan for 250 to 300psi excursions. Yeah, I sorta thought the solenoid valve apertures were tight and I'll use that bit of info to dissuade the guy from going electronic; I'd rather he stick with a purely mechanical system this first time out, too. Will do my homework and report back in a few weeks. Grand unveiling of this project will be at a BAGG fundraiser (where they hope to snag some gas money!) coming up in a few. -
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Re: Solenoid specs
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 6:46 PMIf you opt for solenoid useage, be sure to also keep a ball valve in place just before the solenoid as a manual safety precaution. Solenoids are prone to failure.
Secondly, be sure that the solenoid you are using is rated for LP gas and has compatible seal and or diaphragm materials, as well as the appropriate pressure rating -
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Re: Solenoid specs
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 7:05 PMOkay, gang, really. Take it to the pyro tribe. This really doesn't belong here.
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 7:08 AMI know a read somewhere about the space that each person needs while spinning fire. But as I was spinning glow poi last night in a bar and looking at the ceiling clearance, I wondered if there was a recommended amount that is needed to spin with fire. Thanks! -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 8:44 AMDifferent municipalities will have different rules. Here in Austin TX, the permit I got did not allow indoor performance at all, and required 20' overhead clearance. IMO, that's needlessly cautious, but there you go.
This NAFAA page doesn't quite specify anything, but NAFAA is a good resource for this kind of thing in general.
nafaa.org/nafaa_safety.html
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Sun, September 16, 2007 - 5:06 PMIt really depends what is overhead. In a warehouse-style building with cinder block walls and a steel roof you need less clearance than in a wooden theater with curtains, lights, etc... things that burn or tangle props. I've seen some very unsafe things done in small indoor venues... -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Thu, December 27, 2007 - 7:57 PMTopic: Safety Towels?
I've been dancing with fire for a little over a year with damp towels as the main fire protection followed by fire extinguishers. We've never had to use either.
Recently I've heard mention that a welding blanket or "fire blanket" is better protection as a damp towel could cause steam burns. Can anyone comment or elaborate? I've been combing through fire sites and finding hints but not finding good evidence either way. -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Thu, December 27, 2007 - 10:07 PMAttended via direct mail:
Basically, the steam issue only comes up from rapid, multi-tool extinguishing, like 12 swords in rapid succession. It doesn't come up for normal exit extinguishing, emergent extinguishing of people, or occasional use. Damp towels give the benefit of providing the first step of first aid (cool the burn) at the same time it's used on a person to put them out.
The treated or welding cloth is far more convenient for the busy performer who works in venues with long show times, or access to water is limited. Damp towels can get moldy. Welding cloth can be used dry. -
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Re: POST QUESTIONS HERE
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 8:15 PMA valuable resource for fire performers when confronted by any Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs) can be found at www.lawyersforburners.com. Especially see the sidebar and downloadable 2-page guide to rights and responses.
This is not solely a burner's issue, but burners are more noticeable than other non-traditional people, so . . .
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