What is Enlightenment?

topic posted Sun, January 21, 2007 - 12:56 PM by  Rekmel1
Enlightenment is the bliss of knowing where you are coming from and where you are going to and why. You are coming from and going to infinite perfection. Enlightenment is understanding that your purpose is to give and receive unending fulfillment. Enlightenment is also understanding that how this is accomplished cannot be reasoned because the means of accomplishing this feat is to abandon reason. To be filled one must first become empty. It can only be said that you cast away your oneness (this is where you give and this is where the illusion begins). Because this is just an illusion, being in this imperfect state cannot last forever. The result is that when it ends, you awaken to the joy and peace of your unchanged infinite perfection (this is where you receive and this is where the illusion ends). This cycle is infinite.
posted by:
Rekmel1
Cincinnati
  • Re: What is Enlightenment?

    Sun, January 21, 2007 - 4:32 PM
    Reminded me of this...

    "Our consciousnes is not actually yours or mine; it is the consciouness of man, evolved, grown, accumulated through many, many centuries...
    When one realizes this our responsibilty becomes extraordinarily important."

    Krishnamurti
    • Re: What is Enlightenment?

      Thu, January 25, 2007 - 1:43 PM
      >> "Our consciousnes is not actually yours or mine; it is the consciouness of man, evolved, grown, accumulated through many, many centuries...
      When one realizes this our responsibilty becomes extraordinarily important." <<

      Thanks for that. I like K in small doses. I know a lot of people who are nuts for him (including my Zen teacher) - but whenever I try to read anything by him my eyes just glaze over. I think the "negation" thing can be overdone - and I think he overdid it. But I really like this quote!

      We are all in it together. Trying to get enlightenment on your own, or trying to find "someone" who is "enlightened" are bad signs. I've met some pretty great teachers - and some that I would even say are "enlightened". But they are still human beings.
      • Re: What is Enlightenment?

        Thu, January 25, 2007 - 6:57 PM
        I like him small doses too. But I do find the conversations between him & David Bohm fairly digestable.

        I like this too.
        Q. Why did the chicken cross the road?
        A. J. Krishnamurti: The chicken acted without thought; it saw the other side and so there was no road to cross. Sir, we have said that "seeing" is action and action is truth. The road may be understood to be the separation between thought and action. The chicken did not think; what I am saying then is that the chicken saw the truth.
  • Re: What is Enlightenment?

    Mon, January 22, 2007 - 9:22 PM
    Sometimes, according to my brain latley, the enlightenment thing dosen't have a stop sign. Too much definition pulling me away from "prima reality". I look at a lot of these books and can't get past the table of contents. That's just me, I find the Age of Aquarias to be discouraging. If enlightenment is a group activity I'm disappointed, because I want each person to find their own answers. Boy, I sure sound smart with this one.....
    • Re: What is Enlightenment?

      Thu, January 25, 2007 - 12:11 PM
      Maybe we're trying to define it by our experience in this reality when it is beyond the duality of thinking. I believe it's a paradox though, because the process of thinking about enlightenment and the different philosophies of it expands my awareness, but the clinging to my ideas of it tends to be distancing from the reality. HUM... I'm looping myself into a Kunundrum. OM
  • Re: What is Enlightenment?

    Thu, January 25, 2007 - 5:03 PM
    a really great van morrison song.

    "enlightenment - don't know what it is"
    • Re: What is Enlightenment?

      Sat, January 27, 2007 - 12:20 PM
      Chop that wood
      Carry water
      What's the sound of one hand clapping
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is

      Every second, every minute
      It keeps changing to something different
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is
      It says it's non attachment
      Non attachment, non attachment

      I'm in the here and now, and I'm meditating
      And still I'm suffering but that's my problem
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is

      Wake up

      Enlightenment says the world is nothing
      Nothing but a dream, everything's an illusion
      And nothing is real

      Good or bad baby
      You can change it anyway you want
      You can rearrange it
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is
      Chop that wood
      And carry water
      What's the sound of one hand clapping
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is

      All around baby, you can see
      You're making your own reality, everyday because
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is

      One more time

      Enlightenment, don't know what it is
      It's up to you
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is
      It's up to you, everyday
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is
      It's always up to you
      Enlightenment, don't know what it is
      It's up to you, the way you think
  • Re: What is Enlightenment?

    Thu, January 25, 2007 - 11:23 PM
    Sometimes I believe that everyone has a path before them that they have to walk. Also that one who is enlightened has knowledge of the self, and thus the path, therefore being able to stay very close to it (without deviation, delay or confusion). Perhaps that is an oversimplification, but it is what it is.
    • Re: What is Enlightenment?

      Fri, January 26, 2007 - 6:04 PM
      What I think is it isn't that one has indifference, just acceptance. (Hypothetically speaking )When I have good experiences, I feel them, and when they go, I let them. In other words I'm not clinging and lamenting and suffering worse because they're gone. When I have not so go experiences, I feel them too, and not cling to those either,reliving over and over something that is not in the now. It's not necessarily not feeling or not participating, but not holding on to something that is not. Do I do this. Nope, I'm a BIG cllinger. BIG:)
      • Re: What is Enlightenment?

        Sat, January 27, 2007 - 8:00 AM
        Acceptance... yes (also a huge part of Existentialism) - but I think too, lack of attachment. Like you said Rose, the ability to accept.... whatever, experience it for what one can and let it go. Uh Huh. Letting go a huge issue for me as well.

        The Dalai says Hope is the most important ingredient in a happy life. I, however, have trouble embracing Hope, yet not becoming attached (obviously unEnlightened here!) to my particular Hope actually manifesting. Any food for thought about Hope from y'all?
        • Re: What is Enlightenment?

          Sat, January 27, 2007 - 8:49 AM
          Is it that hope generates expectation, and the expectation generates desires that are sometimes unfulfilled? Unfulfilled desires are the source of sorrow and or suffering on many levels which chains us to the moment? Can one have hope without expectation or desire? I dunno.
          • Re: What is Enlightenment?

            Sat, January 27, 2007 - 1:04 PM
            < Can one have hope without expectation or desire? >

            Exactly! Anybody out there know how to practice hope without expectation?
            • Re: What is Enlightenment?

              Wed, December 5, 2007 - 6:45 AM
              This is a great question and it moved me to put some ideas out there. When I say you I speak to myself as well. Should a person push on and push on for the future or should they just stop and realize that it's all right here right now. A person could cling to the truth that it's all right here, right now so hard that they could litterally just sit down stop eating and fight to the death with thier physical body until they are released from it. Why should one seek out anything? Food, water, friendship, love, a beautiful sunny day. Aren't all of those things able to be right here, right now if one would just stop and receive them? The mere act of getting up to walk across the room to get a glass of water could be the very act of doubt that keeps you from receiving without having to get up and go anywhere. When you eat from the material world are you feeding the lie that keeps you bound like a slave in your physical body and strengthening the hold that the lie has on you? You are in fact making a statement by eating and drinking matter. The statement is that you need matter to live and that you must go and get something to eat and drink to live because matter is what sustains you and it is not right here right now; instead it is some place else and you must go and get it and put it inside you. You are saying that you do not have everything you need inside of you already. This is the reafirmation of a lie over and over and over, and people wonder why there seems to be imperfection and suffering in the world. I'ts because you are feeding and strengthening that lie every day. The reason one has to hope instead of have is because of the doubt that they perpetuate by what they call living. But on a lighter note, just remember that everything is fine, you are heading in the right direction, things are happening the way that they are supposed to happen, and nothing can keep you from the truth forever because error is finite and truth is infinite and to have the pleasure of receiving truth you must be without it as some point, so actually you doing just what you need to do. Breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out.
              • Re: What is Enlightenment?

                Thu, January 10, 2008 - 8:38 AM
                enlightenment... to reailze that you exist, and that more than you exists... to try and grow outside of your own walls... to realize there is more, and that all is connected... and that love truly is everywhere, it is what we are ment to become...

                nurture the good you find in everyone and everthing... this creates harmony...

                ...in seeking this harmony, you help create a world and universe ... : )
          • Re: What is Enlightenment?

            Sat, January 27, 2007 - 1:56 PM
            Wow you guys! I love this conversation. Hope without expectation? OOOH, that's a good one. It got me thinking, so I looked it up in the dictionary. Several definitions are listed for hope (even Bob). 1. Hope: Expectation for a favorable outcome 2. Hope: Being in a state of optimism (the belief that good ultimately prevails). I like that one. Maybe, disappointment is a natural part of the human experience. I'd guess that even Budda was disappointed now and again. You KNOW Jesus was. Can't you hear him? "TURN THE OTHER CHEEK, I SAID TURN THE OTHER, oh forget it." Maybe, it's what we do with the disappointment. I don't really know, as I usually throw a tantrum;0

            Ps. Thank you for sharing the words to that song.
            • Re: What is Enlightenment?

              Sun, January 28, 2007 - 5:25 PM
              Back to reading The Kabalion and started to ponder the Principle of Polarities. In a nutshell, Hermetists find wisdom in the view that dualities - black, white hot, cold good, evil etc. - are really singularities separated by degrees.

              I picture it like a snake biting it's own tail. If the snake's head is "hot" and it's tail is "cold", it's temperature changes scale by scale in small degrees. Where then, does the "hot" actually turn "cold"? Since one can't say for sure, Hermetists will say that hot & cold are the same thing.

              I thought in terms of the subject here and considered: I believe Enlightenment a journey - a journey of degrees, if you will. Since there is no way to tell when "UnEnlightened" becomes "Enlightened" (though one may know it when one gets there just as one can feel a difference between hot and cold), it could be argued that "UnEnlightened" & "Enlightened" are the same thing. Ergo; where one is at this very moment on their journey... is Enlightenment.

              Ironically, Niels Bohr propsed the same idea in Copenhagen. If one cannot measure a quality i.e. dead or alive as in the infamous case of Schroedinger's Cat - then no assumptions can be made and, in this case, the cat is both dead and alive.

              Can anyone here measure the degree to which they are Enlightened?
              • Re: What is Enlightenment?

                Sun, January 28, 2007 - 9:28 PM
                Everything is connectied, alive, dead; they are just words. When it comes down to it everything is one piece of energy. Nothing matters what you think, but it does manafest in material - going back to me saying the enlightnend feels indifferent. Just be aware of your feelings and thoughts and enlightenment will find you and you can make your own conclusion about Nearly Everything. For now anyways.

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