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I kid you not.
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When some of the world's leading religious scholars gather in San Diego this weekend, pasta will be on the intellectual menu. They'll be talking about a satirical pseudo-deity called the Flying Spaghetti Monster, whose growing pop culture fame gets laughs but also raises serious questions about the essence of religion.
The appearance of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on the agenda of the American Academy of Religion's annual meeting gives a kind of scholarly imprimatur to a phenomenon that first emerged in 2005, during the debate in Kansas over whether intelligent design should be taught in public school sciences classes.
Supporters of intelligent design hold that the order and complexity of the universe is so great that science alone cannot explain it. The concept's critics see it as faith masquerading as science.
An Oregon State physics graduate named Bobby Henderson stepped into the debate by sending a letter to the Kansas School Board. With tongue in cheek, he purported to speak for 10 million followers of a being called the Flying Spaghetti Monster — and demanded equal time for their views.
"We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it," Henderson wrote. As for scientific evidence to the contrary, "what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage."
The letter made the rounds on the Internet, prompting laughter from some and vilification from others. But it struck a chord and stuck around. In the great tradition of satire, its humor was in fact a clever and effective argument.
Between the lines, the point of the letter was this: There's no more scientific basis for intelligent design than there is for the idea an omniscient creature made of pasta created the universe. If intelligent design supporters could demand equal time in a science class, why not anyone else? The only reasonable solution is to put nothing into sciences classes but the best available science.
"I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; one third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence," Henderson sarcastically concluded.
Kansas eventually repealed guidelines questioning the theory of evolution.
Meanwhile, Flying Spaghetti Monsterism (FSM-ism to its "adherents") has thrived — particularly on college campuses and in Europe. Henderson's Web site has become a kind of cyber-watercooler for opponents of intelligent design.
Henderson did not respond to a request for comment. His Web site tracks meetings of FSM clubs (members dress up as pirates) and sells trinkets and bumper stickers. "Pastafarians" — as followers call themselves — can also download computer screen-savers and wallpaper (one says: "WWFSMD?") and can sample photographs that show "visions" of the divinity himself. In one, the image of the carbohydrate creator is seen in a gnarl of dug-up tree roots.
It was the emergence of this community that attracted the attention of three young scholars at the University of Florida who study religion in popular culture. They got to talking, and eventually managed to get a panel on FSM-ism on the agenda at one of the field's most prestigious gatherings.
The title: "Evolutionary Controversy and a Side of Pasta: The Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Subversive Function of Religious Parody."
"For a lot of people they're just sort of fun responses to religion, or fun responses to organized religion. But I think it raises real questions about how people approach religion in their lives," said Samuel Snyder, one of the three Florida graduate students who will give talks at the meeting next Monday along with Alyssa Beall of Syracuse University.
The presenters' titles seem almost a parody themselves of academic jargon. Snyder will speak about "Holy Pasta and Authentic Sauce: The Flying Spaghetti Monster's Messy Implications for Theorizing Religion," while Gavin Van Horn's presentation is titled "Noodling around with Religion: Carnival Play, Monstrous Humor, and the Noodly Master."
Using a framework developed by literary critic Mikhail Bakhtin, Van Horn promises in his abstract to explore how, "in a carnivalesque fashion, the Flying Spaghetti Monster elevates the low (the bodily, the material, the inorganic) to bring down the high (the sacred, the religiously dogmatic, the culturally authoritative)."
The authors recognize the topic is a little light by the standards of the American Academy of Religion.
"You have to keep a sense of humor when you're studying religion, especially in graduate school," Van Horn said in a recent telephone interview. "Otherwise you'll sink into depression pretty quickly."
But they also insist it's more than a joke.
Indeed, the tale of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and its followers cuts to the heart of the one of the thorniest questions in religious studies: What defines a religion? Does it require a genuine theological belief? Or simply a set of rituals and a community joining together as a way of signaling their cultural alliances to others?
In short, is an anti-religion like Flying Spaghetti Monsterism actually a religion?
Joining them on the panel will be David Chidester, a prominent and controversial academic at the University of Cape Town in South Africa who is interested in precisely such questions. He has urged scholars looking for insights into the place of religion in culture and psychology to explore a wider range of human activities. Examples include cheering for sports teams, joining Tupperware groups and the growing phenomenon of Internet-based religions. His 2005 book "Authentic Fakes: Religion and American Popular Culture," prompted wide debate about how far into popular culture religious studies scholars should venture.
Lucas Johnston, the third Florida student, argues the Flying Spaghetti Monsterism exhibits at least some of the traits of a traditional religion — including, perhaps, that deep human need to feel like there's something bigger than oneself out there.
He recognized the point when his neighbor, a militant atheist who sports a pro-Darwin bumper sticker on her car, tried recently to start her car on a dying battery.
As she turned the key, she murmured under her breath: "Come on Spaghetti Monster!"
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071...uvpVfys0NUE
***********
When some of the world's leading religious scholars gather in San Diego this weekend, pasta will be on the intellectual menu. They'll be talking about a satirical pseudo-deity called the Flying Spaghetti Monster, whose growing pop culture fame gets laughs but also raises serious questions about the essence of religion.
The appearance of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on the agenda of the American Academy of Religion's annual meeting gives a kind of scholarly imprimatur to a phenomenon that first emerged in 2005, during the debate in Kansas over whether intelligent design should be taught in public school sciences classes.
Supporters of intelligent design hold that the order and complexity of the universe is so great that science alone cannot explain it. The concept's critics see it as faith masquerading as science.
An Oregon State physics graduate named Bobby Henderson stepped into the debate by sending a letter to the Kansas School Board. With tongue in cheek, he purported to speak for 10 million followers of a being called the Flying Spaghetti Monster — and demanded equal time for their views.
"We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it," Henderson wrote. As for scientific evidence to the contrary, "what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage."
The letter made the rounds on the Internet, prompting laughter from some and vilification from others. But it struck a chord and stuck around. In the great tradition of satire, its humor was in fact a clever and effective argument.
Between the lines, the point of the letter was this: There's no more scientific basis for intelligent design than there is for the idea an omniscient creature made of pasta created the universe. If intelligent design supporters could demand equal time in a science class, why not anyone else? The only reasonable solution is to put nothing into sciences classes but the best available science.
"I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; one third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence," Henderson sarcastically concluded.
Kansas eventually repealed guidelines questioning the theory of evolution.
Meanwhile, Flying Spaghetti Monsterism (FSM-ism to its "adherents") has thrived — particularly on college campuses and in Europe. Henderson's Web site has become a kind of cyber-watercooler for opponents of intelligent design.
Henderson did not respond to a request for comment. His Web site tracks meetings of FSM clubs (members dress up as pirates) and sells trinkets and bumper stickers. "Pastafarians" — as followers call themselves — can also download computer screen-savers and wallpaper (one says: "WWFSMD?") and can sample photographs that show "visions" of the divinity himself. In one, the image of the carbohydrate creator is seen in a gnarl of dug-up tree roots.
It was the emergence of this community that attracted the attention of three young scholars at the University of Florida who study religion in popular culture. They got to talking, and eventually managed to get a panel on FSM-ism on the agenda at one of the field's most prestigious gatherings.
The title: "Evolutionary Controversy and a Side of Pasta: The Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Subversive Function of Religious Parody."
"For a lot of people they're just sort of fun responses to religion, or fun responses to organized religion. But I think it raises real questions about how people approach religion in their lives," said Samuel Snyder, one of the three Florida graduate students who will give talks at the meeting next Monday along with Alyssa Beall of Syracuse University.
The presenters' titles seem almost a parody themselves of academic jargon. Snyder will speak about "Holy Pasta and Authentic Sauce: The Flying Spaghetti Monster's Messy Implications for Theorizing Religion," while Gavin Van Horn's presentation is titled "Noodling around with Religion: Carnival Play, Monstrous Humor, and the Noodly Master."
Using a framework developed by literary critic Mikhail Bakhtin, Van Horn promises in his abstract to explore how, "in a carnivalesque fashion, the Flying Spaghetti Monster elevates the low (the bodily, the material, the inorganic) to bring down the high (the sacred, the religiously dogmatic, the culturally authoritative)."
The authors recognize the topic is a little light by the standards of the American Academy of Religion.
"You have to keep a sense of humor when you're studying religion, especially in graduate school," Van Horn said in a recent telephone interview. "Otherwise you'll sink into depression pretty quickly."
But they also insist it's more than a joke.
Indeed, the tale of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and its followers cuts to the heart of the one of the thorniest questions in religious studies: What defines a religion? Does it require a genuine theological belief? Or simply a set of rituals and a community joining together as a way of signaling their cultural alliances to others?
In short, is an anti-religion like Flying Spaghetti Monsterism actually a religion?
Joining them on the panel will be David Chidester, a prominent and controversial academic at the University of Cape Town in South Africa who is interested in precisely such questions. He has urged scholars looking for insights into the place of religion in culture and psychology to explore a wider range of human activities. Examples include cheering for sports teams, joining Tupperware groups and the growing phenomenon of Internet-based religions. His 2005 book "Authentic Fakes: Religion and American Popular Culture," prompted wide debate about how far into popular culture religious studies scholars should venture.
Lucas Johnston, the third Florida student, argues the Flying Spaghetti Monsterism exhibits at least some of the traits of a traditional religion — including, perhaps, that deep human need to feel like there's something bigger than oneself out there.
He recognized the point when his neighbor, a militant atheist who sports a pro-Darwin bumper sticker on her car, tried recently to start her car on a dying battery.
As she turned the key, she murmured under her breath: "Come on Spaghetti Monster!"
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071...uvpVfys0NUE
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The "Humor" of Bigotry
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 2:30 PMMearly a furtherance of Anti-Rastafarian Hate Speech Propaganda. -
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Re: The "Humor" of Bigotry
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 3:58 PMYou can't just make up a fantasy religion.
Oh, wait, they all are.
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Re: The "Humor" of Bigotry
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 9:38 AMI dont' see that EliJah... wanna be more specific? -
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A Miracle.
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 2:36 PMOh My Flying Spaghetti Monster!!! Is someone actually being CIVIL....Are you sure your Pastafarian?
The term "Pastafarian" does not, and cannot exist as a seperate entity from the word by which it was created and is based, Rastafarian. And as the integrity of Rastafarianism's standing as an actual religion is hardly concretized in the eyes of the general public, a Pun of it name being used to identify a Parody Religion is an impedament to Rastafarian's current motion to have Their religion recognized by governmental bodies amoung other things, As it promotes the idea, whether intentionally or inadvertantly, that Rastafarianism is a Joke and not to be Honored and that its Adherents are Childish and perhaps Mentally Incapable, Which is Slander and an Oppression of Human Rights.
Beyond that, I even maintain that the concept of the FSM itself was concieved of based on the term "Pastafarian", Which was a direct slur from the imagination of Mr. Henderson, or something along those lines, born of a personal dislike or misunderstanding of Rastafarian's and Rastafarianism, And owe's it popularity and merchandising to the similarity of the terms and a widespread distrust and willingess to exploit of the same.
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Re: A Miracle.
Mon, November 19, 2007 - 1:41 PMI'm kinda thinking that there's an inherent prejudice against the Rasta religion because of its' connection both to dreds and MJ. I don't know that much about it. But with the hysteria about drugs I'm guessing there's gonna be fallout. Sure was a whole lotta fallout with the folks who took Peyote for vision quests. -
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A disease of which FSMism is mearly a symptom.
Mon, November 19, 2007 - 2:17 PMSure. But do you see how the term 'pastafarian' and its promotion can help reenforce such prejudice?
Or for example, How Tribe.nets willingness to have it as a preset option in people profiles under religion is a function of that prejudice?
Would Judaism have been punned so wontonly, and with so little resistence?
People have long mistaken that I have ANY problem with the FSM or what it represents.
When it's mearly the damage it attempts to inflict on other's that I oppose.
Why can't the FSM monster exist with out directly mocking other religions?
This is a question 'Pastafarians' should ask themselves. -
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Re: A disease of which FSMism is mearly a symptom.
Mon, November 19, 2007 - 2:43 PMBecause most of the religions that feel mocked should be mocked.
Have a sense of humor or something. If you cannot use your brain when talking about your religion, you deserve to be mocked. FSM was created because people were being stupid.
STUPID! -
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What happened to the civility?
Mon, November 19, 2007 - 7:03 PMThe term "pastafarian"'s existence as a mockery of Rastafarians has nothing necessarily to do with the way Rastafarians may feel about it. Therefore, trying to justify it along those lines, as if the end could justifies the means, is what you call "a low blow". -
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Re: What happened to the civility?
Wed, November 21, 2007 - 10:18 AMIt is sad when the only debate in here comes from a troll.
OK, I hope you are very happy, riling people up with the lamest things you can think of. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What happened to the civility?
Wed, November 21, 2007 - 10:28 AMwell, judging from the fact that this is the *only* topic of conversation he has engaged on Tribe for the past few months, it must make him very happy.
everyone needs a hobby, I guess. -
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Sad Indeed
Wed, November 21, 2007 - 1:30 PMYour inablity to grasp the reality of your inequitous bigotry leaves you no option but to attempt to ignore it with more immature, dissmisive, and racist terminology. -
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Unsu...
Re: Sad Indeed
Wed, November 21, 2007 - 11:52 PMThat's right... According to some 'experts', the term "Troll" is racist and/or anti-Semitic nomenclature. That is opportunistically true, no matter what the context.
If you do not believe that, you are a neo-Fascist Nazi. Just do the math, you will see. -
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'Humor' will not hide you.
Thu, November 22, 2007 - 10:16 AMNo, But what IS Fascict is asserting that people who object to the word 'Troll' are necessarily doing so out of opportunism, and/or Slandering them by propogating the falsehood that they hold any who do not "believe" in the Racist Nature of the word Troll as Nazi's. Perhaps whats most sad, is that the critical thinking skills of people who claim to be 'scientific rationalist' seem to agree that labelling the person who brings it up a 'troll', can some how justify or negate the fact the word Pastafarian is a religious slur against Rastafari People. -
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Unsu...
Re: 'Paranoia' will not hide you.
Thu, November 22, 2007 - 1:47 PMYeah, that's a real Fascist alright...
And a Troll is a nasty mythological beastie, as Tolkien put it, "Rather slow on the uptake".
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Unsu...
Re: 'Paranoia' will not hide you.
Thu, November 22, 2007 - 1:58 PMThis thread is so telling of how our guy gets along with his fellows within his own faith.
ehiopie.tribe.net/thread/00...f51e7e4a7a It's a hoot.
Thanks to Isara for digging this up and posting it elsewhere. -
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Unsu...
Re: 'Paranoia' will not hide you.
Thu, November 22, 2007 - 1:59 PMehiopie.tribe.net/thread/00...f51e7e4a7a -
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Slow? Uptake?
Thu, November 22, 2007 - 4:13 PMWho cant even post a link? Whats the problem? Cant engage a serious conversation on the reality of how the word troll, especially in the context of the internet has anti-semetic connotations? Or how the word pastafarian carries with it the aformention fear and prejudice towards rastafarians that exists in such "white" dominated community as burning man or tribe.net, and so you feel the need to focus on ME, and "my paranoia"(which is a furtherence of your prejudice against rastafarians) and whatever defects or problems you think I have in order to divert, deflect, and subsitute with anything but the actually issues I bring to the discussion becasue that could be an admission, acknolegement, or revelation that you, tribe.net, and the world, might have a serious problem with white supremacy, have been fighting with me about this for a year out of fear, and are so out of touch and absorbed in vain intellect that you cant even pretend like all this isn't a joke? -
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Unsu...
Re: Slow? Uptake?
Sat, December 8, 2007 - 2:26 AM...Who cant even post a link? Whats the problem? ...
FYI, sometimes the link posting thing works the way it should, sometimes not. I don't know if it is my operating system, or my browser, or what.
In any case, the article tells an interesting tale for those who wish to follow it.
PS Eli, why don't you post a photo of yourself on your profile? It's sort of hard to respect a person who seems to be hiding behind his avatar. -
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I have Nothing to Prove.
Sat, December 8, 2007 - 7:44 AMYes I encourage others to read it, and note the others there who saw how tribe.net having a preset "pastafarian religion" option in users profiles is "clearly a mistake", if not that the enitre FSM movement is oppressive. As well as the broad based prevelance of people who are willing to argue with me about it from preconcieved notions of my intentions, over arching "political correctness", and as I'll add *Fear* of secular progressive intimidation . FYI Most of the people on that tribe and on tribe.net as a whole cannot be considered Rastas. Something perhaps the pastafarianism listing can help explain as it certainly gives the impression that We are not welcome, and also may help explain why I'm not very interested in Uploading a photo of myself. Something I would have gladly done had my persecution based on my religion not been defended tooth and nail by what I take as the user base of this website, While my plight COMPLETELY IGNORED by the what I have no qualms refering to as INCOMPETENT STAFF of this G-d Forsaken place. Next to of course the most obvious reality, That I am not seeking anyones respect, and one who needs "a photo" to recognize that what Im saying is true would likely not be persuaded either way, and if so, it sounds like it would be in a manner to which Im not aggreeable.
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Re: Slow? Uptake?
Sat, December 29, 2007 - 1:33 PMGodwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:[2][3]
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a caution against the use of inflammatory rhetoric or exaggerated comparisons, especially fallacious arguments of the reductio ad Hitlerum form. -
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Re: Slow? Uptake?
Sat, December 29, 2007 - 6:56 PMIn all honesty "godwins "law"" sounds pretty anti-semetic itself.
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Re: A disease of which FSMism is mearly a symptom.
Thu, November 22, 2007 - 10:52 PMI just find it interesting that whenever someone's religion has been offended the first question they ask is: How would the Jews react if they were treated this way?
For anyone who knows their history Jews have been treated every which way there is. I think they take it in stride these days. Not too many religions are based in a country surrounded by their enemies. But my point is that the Jews most certainly have had their share of prejudicial treatment the world over. -
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Re: A disease of which FSMism is mearly a symptom.
Fri, November 23, 2007 - 5:27 AMOh, My question was *would* the Jews have been treated this way? Which I believe if ones thinks about you'll realize that they wouldn't have, *anymore* atleast, ofcourse if you call a trillion dollars of military spending "taking it in stride". Rastafari was targeted because its such a cheap shot, Its already taken for a joke most the world over, Whats tribe or FSM just keeping the ball rolling? And dont assume that any of this has the power to offend Rasta. Its funny but if you read what you wrote again it looks like the first point your trying to make and the last are complete opposites, and the final line just looks like an attempt to cover you ass as if anybody cared. -
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Re: A disease of which FSMism is mearly a symptom.
Wed, December 5, 2007 - 12:08 PM"ofcourse if you call a trillion dollars of military spending "taking it in stride".
So Iraq is all about the Jews? heh
You just lost me... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Thu, December 6, 2007 - 1:31 PMThats Not what I was saying, No. So unless your being sarcastic your just doing a good job of revealing whats on your mind. I was reffering to the recent "revival" of a thing called *The State of Israel* which if you havent heard is a *Jewish* State (whatever that means), and for that matter is "Heavily Armed", a response to help indicate the stride with which I felt the Jews are now taking their "Religious Persecution" as speculated, Though I'm unsure you knew where you were to begin with. -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Sun, December 23, 2007 - 5:58 PMThe state of Israel was awarded to the Jews at the end of WWII. They had been living there since wandering in the desert for 40 years back in the day of Moses. They were ousted from their nation (not unlike the Native Americans) by their enemies. They are one if not the only country in the world surrounded on all sides by hostile nations. Are you suggesting they sit there unarmed?
I don't see what this has to do with the Rasta situation. It sounds more like you're trying to legitimize the Rasta religion when it's already legitimate. There really isn't any comparasin to the history of the Jews. No one religion has the right to exist at the expense of another. It has more in common with the civil rights movement. -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Sun, December 23, 2007 - 8:28 PMWhat gave you the idea I was suggesting that Jews operate a defenseless state?
and,
If Rasta is legitimate then why can our priest's still being imprisoned for its practice?
Not that I need a reason to assert its legitimacy, especially in an instance where it is being belittled and marginalized. What this has to do with the "rasta situation" is that you speculated how the jews would have reacted if they had been targeted, and you said you thought they would "take it in stride", so I pointed out how the extremity of Israels state of protectedness may be indicative of the stride with which Jews are now taking instances of relgious persecution. Your point about no one religion having the right to exist at the expense of another is well taken, You should help me explain that to a number of "pastafarian" sympathizers at the "Food Court" Formerly 'Tribe Court' Tribe,
who claim I am oppressing them by demanding they relinquish their monicker
tribecourt.tribe.net/thread/...3d412680
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Sat, December 29, 2007 - 1:38 PMI demand you cease calling yourself a Rastafarian. I find it a direct affront to the Pastafarian faith in that the Flying Spaghetti monster came before all so-called religions, and hence, the roots of Pastafarianism extend far before the emergence of the Rastafarian faith. Isn't there some other term you could use to describe yourself that is not so offensive, like, say a Jahadist? -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Sat, December 29, 2007 - 7:09 PMThank JAH for CONSCIENCE, Of which you all demonstrate NONE. Your aurguments are all fear trying to hide as humor. Maybe you can be comforted that you have plenty of Honorless suckers for company around here. I was flattered from the begining that your life's are so empty that you need to mock your elders to feel comfortable in your own skin, now I can see that you'd rather sacrifice the thin veil seperating you and your ancestor from their oppresive RasClott selfs and openly be the damned nazi's you are than admit your God is a Black Jew. BooHoo for you alright. -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 9:38 PMI swear, you are one of the most confusing pseudo-trolls imaginable.
What was the term, orangeboxman's term.... huh...ah,,,,,,,,, AH!
here it is:
Lexical Vomit. -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 11:11 AMYour confusion and displeasure was foreseen. I'm just glad your reading it! Bon Apetit' -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 8:25 AMWhy did god allow his other forms?
Is he in this FSM creature?
What is in his first holy statute?
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
Operative word "before".
He was the First.
He has returned, to himself, his original kingdom, to be Crowned (Keter).
Plus, he uses this FSM creature to further expand our minds. -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 8:39 AMYes, Though Racist Bigots are given the freedom to persist. Now that's mercy. But your whos blasphemous if you refer to the FSM as a "creature". -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 8:49 AMOK, he is an Idea. Do you see him anywhere in reality?
Do you see God?
Do you see Racist Bigots? If so, where?
Eli-Jah, I enjoy speaking to you.
We work well together.
Blend or Contend. (I borrow this phrase from a friend's poem)
We contend well. We do not dilute our God.
We fortify Him. We are archers on his battlements.
He has a 'Fortress Around His Heart'.
Would you like to see a picture representative of this concept? -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 10:41 AMThe people responsible for the term pastafarian's listing in profiles and those defending it are racist bigots. Any chance of engaging me in theological conversation on tribe.net expired about 16 months ago. -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 7:27 PMSo, who are these you incriminate as 'racist bigots'?
Really, who?
Here is God's heart, with a Fortress around it!:
people.tribe.net/5f5a5c1f-...5491229d75 -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 7:31 PMEli-Jah, you have chosen a name far too Prideful for you.
ARE YOU TRULY ELI-JAH?
What's your real name?
I'm gonna get you!
Pride is the qliphotic sin of the Christ-Center, Tiphareth.
Are you Jesus, or Eli-Jah, or do you have a real name?
Besides, Eli-Jah has no hyphen in it.
You have misspelt Elijah's name.
Do you ask him to forgive you for taking his name?
I'm serious.
This snake is dancing, and talking to you at the same time. -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 7:52 PMEli-Jah, do you wish to shoot arrows from the battlements,
or have them plunge into your heart while assailing God's Kingdom?
Change your name. It is someone else's!
What's your real name?
Don't ask for mine, you don't deserve it yet.
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Sat, March 8, 2008 - 8:00 AM>>>>>>So, who are these you incriminate as 'racist bigots'?
Really, who? <<<<<<
To the extent that you impeed my motion towards the removal of the term pastafarian from profiles I incriminate YOU as a racist bigot. -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Sun, March 9, 2008 - 12:32 AMJust for the record:
Discrimination against a religion is not being racist. That's something different, which should be obvious.
If a majority don't want the term pastafarian removed, then that's democracy and majority rule. If you'd prefer a republic, then I think you may have some trouble getting elected as a representative of the people (just a guess, BTW).
You seem to be advocating a dictatorship of the minority (or one). That sounds like tyrany to me. Your revolution seems a little short-handed. -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 8:19 AMHe's a rather bad conscriptor.
Thinking that a simple letter is worth hating everyone over.
War, war, war. Absolutely useless.
Say it again.
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 8:43 AMSlavery was also a democratic institution. Should I go on...... ???
I'm not sure who's record didn't contain all you mentioned, but as long as we are clarifying record let me just state "for the record", tribe(read hyjacked cultural jargon).net is a racist entity comprised of arrogant psuedo-elitist hippiecrite sheeple who's "happiness" is derived from the malignment of others. And don't flatter yourselves to think that I would spend so much energy as to even consider "hating" anyone over your examples of ignorant, petty bigotry. -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 1:30 PMNow he's conflating slavery with punning a religion (intentional or not)
with democracy with racism with idiocy (in my opinion; the last one is a bonus!)
E, you will never win. Discriminate or stay here.
(Discrimination is the Virtue of Malkuth. Without it one can never ascend to Heaven.)
Racism is racism. It is not punning someone's religion.
Slavery is slavery. It is not democracy. Democracies are not yet perfect.
The ancient greeks had slaves. So did americans more than 140 years ago.
In a sense, slavery has not ended. Sexual slavery still exists. Women are stolen
from around the world and sold to people as sex slaves. Do you diminish this
fact, E.?
Religions will be punned. Yours needs to either get over the pun, or find a legal
means to fight the implied (if there is true implication) slight...
I'm going to obliterate your little doggie toy. You'll have to find another, if you want to
growl and show your anger. Or you could make friends.
Reality will hit hard for you at some point.
Prove that your religion has the right to legally make money off your
"Rastafarian" label. Then, whoever is in charge of the "Pastafarian"
label can present their case in court that they have the right to sell
"Pastafarian" t-shirts. So sorry that the latter is outselling your former.
Racism must be a plank of Rastafarianism, if this guy is any sort of example.
Or, and E., before you wail about the dictionary meaning of 'discriminate',
read all of them. or, exchange that word for 'Discerning'.
Would you like to buy some gloves made from the excess babies of Irish papists?
I bet you would.
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 1:37 PMSlavery was a COMMERCIAL institution.
It had absolutely nothing to do with democracy.
At least, until Abraham Lincoln came along in the USA. -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 4:26 PMThe question is not if I will win but only how severely you will lose. All that needed to happen was for tribe to apologize, admit that the listing was inappropriate, and take action to correct themselves, But the fundamental schism's demonstrated by the listing's existence in the first place being proven a mistake would be far too humbling for the socio-economic-racial-class ("Tribe" if you will) of people compromising this website to at least implcitly admit to by submitting to my petition while maintaining its violent facade of psuedo supremacy. So the lie continues. How deep its pit has become. Truely the exent to which tribe has gone in defending its unjust racial and religious discrimination is nothing if not a debate on religion, Because only faith, however misguided, could bring about such hypocrisy. The term Pastafarian is a Racist and Bigoted Slur* whose destructive potential can be augmented contextually as is the case here. Becasue of its official endorsement, Tribe.net and those who have defended the term and maligned its opponents seeking vindication are guilty of Racial and Religious oppression and persecution.
*see the verifiable existence of the term pastafarian and its negative connotations towards Rastafarians far before the creation of FSMism which is the actual name of the "religion", making the term "Pastafarian" but a rogue and not official endorsed offshoot term of a likely racist element within the self style and declared "pirates" of the FSM movement. -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 4:34 PMJust an aside that I was in no way conflating slavery with this circumstance, but could should I choose, only illustrating the fallacy of trying to justify the ethics of something becasue of its democratic popularity. I still maintian that slavery was an instituion upheld through democratic processes in the USA despite the false accuations and immature grandstanding of this kablahblahist. -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 5:32 PMin fact the 3/5 amendment is in the official documents if im not mistaken, whats your point that amerca wasnt a democracy at that time? Please humor me. -
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 6:57 PMYou are supremely lucky that I will even read your tripe.
What do your friends think of all this silliness? Seriously!
You keep insulting me, a person that believes in God, perhaps not yours,
keep insisting everyone on tribe is racist, generally keep degrading everyone
who is not like you nor holds your views. I don't see that you have a leg to stand
on. Here and in Tribe Court I have eviscerated your worthless preening argument
over and over, yet you won't give it up. I neither speak for tribe in an official capacity
nor in any way represent the FSM religion. Yet, as the nearly only person willing
to discuss a dialect on this subject with you, you direct solely hate to me.
I will no longer read a single word of yours. I doubt you believe in the redemption
of Jesus. I will investigate Melchizedekism on my own. Where this leaves you, I
can only imagine, though I don't want to... Probably somewhere in the qliphoth.
Well, you gotta start somewhere. Have a nice long, sordid painful journey.
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Unsu...
Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 7:33 PM<<...tribe(read hyjacked cultural jargon).net is a racist entity...>>
Wow! You'd better escape from here now, while you can - you would want to get infected, right!!
(Let's see if the above provokes any available sense of humor, eh?)
I get no enjoyment (thank you very much) from the malignment of others - as a matter of fact, I don't have the kind of time that it requires to get enjoyment out of the malignment of others. I'm simply having a good time on my own, enjoying my freedom of speech. If you get offended, that's your business. You have no right to place a burden on me (i.e. depriving of my aforementioned free speech), because you disagree. As I previously stated, there is not such thing as the right to not be offended.
BTW, you may now consider yourself ignored. I have no further time for you or your self-pity. Go enjoy life, as most (including yours IIRC), and stop looking for places to be offended. -
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Re: A disease of which "Iraq" is mearly a symptom
Tue, March 11, 2008 - 8:11 AMOne need not place any further burden on those who oppress and persecute others. That is a yoke heavy onto itself. The aurgument is simple and yet to be addressed because it's simply indefensable. Tribe.net in mocking Rastafarian's apart from any other religion in every user on the sites profile no less is commiting violent oppression born of racist schism's and deeply ingrained misunderstanding of faith. Tribe.net should not officially support the mockery of any religion but that is a vunerable and already maligned one is truly hatefull. But at least everyone knows where the cards lay I guess.
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Unsu...
Re: The "Humor" of Bigotry
Fri, November 23, 2007 - 7:56 AMAll of this reminds me of the time Sinead O'Connor held a press conference to complain about how everyone was paying so much attention to her.... -
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Re: The "Humor" of Bigotry
Fri, November 23, 2007 - 5:55 PMDid you know Sinead O'Connor is a Rastafarian? Not that it has anything to do with what your talking about, I just thought it was interesting. Anyways, Have you ever heard that If you dont have something nice to say dont say anything at all, I mean cant you just post about the artical or my view of it or something productive except just more typical "flamish" type blah blah? -
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Re: The "Humor" of Bigotry
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 11:49 PMSinead O'Connor is a rastafarian...hmmm.
Does one have to be black to be a rastafarian? Apparently not.
So where is the bigotry? -
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Unsu...
Re: The "Humor" of Bigotry
Tue, March 11, 2008 - 1:43 AMAhhhh stop ! Stop! Eli you may have had a point to start with but this is going no where. I seriously doubt anyone in this tribe is going to listen. It is clear you are passionate about this issue and I may be interested in thinking about it but your communication skills are not good at all, attacking someone will not inspire them to stop and listen to you. I can't read this anymore. -
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Re: The "Humor" of Bigotry
Sat, March 15, 2008 - 10:16 PM>>>>>>>Does one have to be black to be a rastafarian? Apparently not.
So where is the bigotry?<<<<<<<
This is a good question. The bigotry actually has nothing to do with Rastafarian religion beyond the fact that as your first question demonstrates, there is(whether valid or not), a recognized afrocentricity to that being referred to as "the Rastafarian religion". A term of which the term Pastafarian is a pun. The bigotry is in the ignorace of the initial decision to make the listing. I believe that the inconsideration show to Rastafarians in the listing is a function of an Historical and Ingrained racist discrimination against black people that has lead to the oppression of Rastafarians because as I said they(the Rastafarians) are recognized as being afrocentric by definition. Much of this unfortunate circumstance at tribe I believe was an unconsious mistake but am holding those responsible accountable as if they were aware becasue they questioned my authority in bringing greivance. I would suggest leaving it at that.
@the otro senor, you cannot qualify my communication skills if assuming my motivation is to encourage people to listen.
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Unsu...
Re: The "Humor" of Bigotry
Sat, March 15, 2008 - 10:43 PMProve that it is a pun from the standpoint of the general audience, and you might have
something. Of course that does not excuse all the proclamations of bigotry or racism.
That's your own pony. This whole argument resides upon the idea that the term
'Pastafarian' is even definitively recognized by those of Rastafarian religious extraction as
damaging, much less than that the whole community sees it's easy labeling
as 'pastafarian' makes any sense. Argue over the direct damaging effects of the term upon
those of your faith, then explain why the damage is more widespread from the entire
world's perspective, to the effect that Rastafarian has indeed suffered by this loose
association, then meet me in the church of the subgenius... -
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Re: The "Humor" of Bigotry
Sun, March 16, 2008 - 9:22 AMIn the broadest sense the "general audience" of a WWW social networking site is the whole world. Even without the recognition that the Rastrafari movement recieves around the world do to the influence of Bob Marley, Panafricanism, and Post colonial liberation philosophy, Declared Rastafarians themselves likely number in the millions. Are you suggesting that they would not recognize the term as the pun it admittadly is? If so this is just a manifestation of more racist belittlement. Is this a segement of tribes potential audeince that would recognize the term as a pun large enough to discontinue your "joke"? Becasue I can go on. The only aurgument challenging my objection is a racist refusal to acknowledge the exsistence of Rastafari. Whether or not Rastafarians recognize the term as damaging does not speak to the potential harm the assosiation could and has produced. So the aurgument most certainly does not reside on the feelings of Rastafarians. The term pastafarian being listed in this context and in general through tongue and cheek dissmisive humor and punning creates and encourages the exisitng false impression that Rastafarian Relgion is itself "Made up" as the FSM was. Yet there is an essence of importance of religion that requires the rights of Religious Practice to be recognized by even governments. It is just such rights that Rastafarians are currently deprived and so a pun and mockery is a detractive force to a movement towards the recognition of Rastafarian Religion that would ensure them their rights. This is such common information that I suspect I need not elaborate. I think that this instance may do better to remain in that is gives caculated reason for the whole of tribe.net and its user base to be denounced as racist, than if the term were removed, so I'm not in a rush to prove too much.
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