Prabhupada: Yes. Then the next scene is that some constables came and during the Hari-sankirtana, they broke the mrdangas that "You have disobeyed the magistrate order that... So you cannot do it." So as the constables, they do some violence or assault, so they did that. And after the constables went away Caitanya Mahaprabhu was informed. He came. He saw that the mrdangas are broken and everything is strewn away so Caitanya Mahaprabhu saw. He decided, "All right. Now we shall organize a civil disobedience movement. Now tomorrow we shall organize thousands and thousands of people with mrdangas and we shall approach the magistrate house." So He... Next scene... What is that next scene?
Hayagriva: Now the constables broke up a sankirtana carried on by Caitanya's friends. Any location here particular?
Prabhupada: Yes. It is called the Srivasa house.
Hayagriva: On a house. At someone's home.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because in India the village houses they have got some compound. Not that only fixed house. Every house has got a compound.
Hayagriva: All right. Very good. Now the fourth scene, this is the meeting with the magistrate.
Prabhupada: Yes. Fourth scene. That...
Hayagriva: They march to the magistrate.
Prabhupada: Magistrate house and in the courtyard all the people, they were very much enthusiastic.
Hayagriva: Several thousand.
Prabhupada: Several thousand. And they were loudly chanting and meeting Lord... So when the chanting was going on the Chand Kazi appeared and there was discussion between... Chand Kazi was also very great scholar, and Lord Caitanya was also scholar. So Chand Kazi, just to pacify them, he addressed Caitanya, "My dear boy, You happen to be my nephew. You are my sister's son. Why You are so angry upon Your maternal uncle?" Caitanya Mahaprabhu got the clue that he was prepared to make compromise. So He also mildly replied, "Yes, you are My uncle, I know. So because you are My uncle, therefore I have come to your house. How is that when the nephew comes that you do not receive Him? In an angry mood you go upstairs?" So in this way, the situation was pacified. Then they sat together and there was a very learned discussion between the two. Because Hindus are always against cow killing. So he was Muhammadan. They were killing cow.
Hayagriva: Chand...
Prabhupada: Chand Kazi.
Hayagriva: Muhammadan.
Prabhupada: Yes. Muhammadan. Chand Kazi was a... Maulana Chand Kazi. His name is
Maulana Chand Kazi. He was a great scholar in the Koran scripture. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu first of all asked the Chand Kazi, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are eating your mother and father?" (laughs) So he could understand that He was attacking the cow killing process. So he said, "Well, You are just trying to criticize our cow killing, but in Your Vedic literature also I have seen that cow killing is allowed in sacrifice." Then Lord Caitanya said, "Yes. That is not killing. That is rejuvenating. That is not killing." The sacrifice of cow recommended in the Vedic sastra means that the brahmanas prove how powerful was Vedic mantra that it could give a new life to the old cows and bulls. So then Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, that "Such kind of learned brahmanas and Vedic yajna is not possible in this age. Therefore cow killing..." Not cow killing. "Sacrifice by offering cow, sacrifice by offering horse, and..." Asvamedham gavalambham. And sannyasam pala paitrkam. Sannyasa means to become in the renounced order of life. And these five things. One thing is sacrifice by offering cow. Second, sacrifice by offering horse. Third, to accept renounced order of life. And fourth, offering ablutions... Or what is called? Offering some, something to the forefathers? What is called?
Hayagriva: Oblations.
Prabhupada: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this sankirtana movement."
Hayagriva: All right. Now I don't have any questions there. I probably wouldn't deal quite at
such length about the meat. I don't see how that... The main thing was about the sankirtana, the chanting.
Prabhupada: Chanting, and it was mitigated, and he allowed. First of all, there was objection, then there was civil disobedience, then when they compromised, the Chand Kazi allowed the movement. This is the whole idea.
Hayagriva: Now the constables broke up a sankirtana carried on by Caitanya's friends. Any location here particular?
Prabhupada: Yes. It is called the Srivasa house.
Hayagriva: On a house. At someone's home.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because in India the village houses they have got some compound. Not that only fixed house. Every house has got a compound.
Hayagriva: All right. Very good. Now the fourth scene, this is the meeting with the magistrate.
Prabhupada: Yes. Fourth scene. That...
Hayagriva: They march to the magistrate.
Prabhupada: Magistrate house and in the courtyard all the people, they were very much enthusiastic.
Hayagriva: Several thousand.
Prabhupada: Several thousand. And they were loudly chanting and meeting Lord... So when the chanting was going on the Chand Kazi appeared and there was discussion between... Chand Kazi was also very great scholar, and Lord Caitanya was also scholar. So Chand Kazi, just to pacify them, he addressed Caitanya, "My dear boy, You happen to be my nephew. You are my sister's son. Why You are so angry upon Your maternal uncle?" Caitanya Mahaprabhu got the clue that he was prepared to make compromise. So He also mildly replied, "Yes, you are My uncle, I know. So because you are My uncle, therefore I have come to your house. How is that when the nephew comes that you do not receive Him? In an angry mood you go upstairs?" So in this way, the situation was pacified. Then they sat together and there was a very learned discussion between the two. Because Hindus are always against cow killing. So he was Muhammadan. They were killing cow.
Hayagriva: Chand...
Prabhupada: Chand Kazi.
Hayagriva: Muhammadan.
Prabhupada: Yes. Muhammadan. Chand Kazi was a... Maulana Chand Kazi. His name is
Maulana Chand Kazi. He was a great scholar in the Koran scripture. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu first of all asked the Chand Kazi, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are eating your mother and father?" (laughs) So he could understand that He was attacking the cow killing process. So he said, "Well, You are just trying to criticize our cow killing, but in Your Vedic literature also I have seen that cow killing is allowed in sacrifice." Then Lord Caitanya said, "Yes. That is not killing. That is rejuvenating. That is not killing." The sacrifice of cow recommended in the Vedic sastra means that the brahmanas prove how powerful was Vedic mantra that it could give a new life to the old cows and bulls. So then Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, that "Such kind of learned brahmanas and Vedic yajna is not possible in this age. Therefore cow killing..." Not cow killing. "Sacrifice by offering cow, sacrifice by offering horse, and..." Asvamedham gavalambham. And sannyasam pala paitrkam. Sannyasa means to become in the renounced order of life. And these five things. One thing is sacrifice by offering cow. Second, sacrifice by offering horse. Third, to accept renounced order of life. And fourth, offering ablutions... Or what is called? Offering some, something to the forefathers? What is called?
Hayagriva: Oblations.
Prabhupada: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this sankirtana movement."
Hayagriva: All right. Now I don't have any questions there. I probably wouldn't deal quite at
such length about the meat. I don't see how that... The main thing was about the sankirtana, the chanting.
Prabhupada: Chanting, and it was mitigated, and he allowed. First of all, there was objection, then there was civil disobedience, then when they compromised, the Chand Kazi allowed the movement. This is the whole idea.
