I got a little story for you that I read in a book on thoughtforms. A few years a go a paranormal researcher did this experiment out in England. He used two groups of psychics.
In the first group, Group A, he had those psychics create in their imagination a totally fictional ghost that haunted a certain castle in England. They tried to imagine the ghost to have a very realistic life. They didn’t just imagine a fictional ghost to haunt a castle, they gave the ghost a name, a reason for haunting the castle, a fictional biography of what it did when it was supposedly alive, and so on. The researcher had Group A meditate on this fictional ghost until they believed him to exist.
In the second group, Group B, he had those psychics try to contact the fictional ghost created by Group A. Bear in mind that neither group knew of the existence of the other. Interestingly enough, the Group B psychics were able to contact the fictional ghost.
The researcher wasn’t too surprised with the results. He anticipated that Group A psychics created a ghostly thoughtform that Group B psychics were able to contact and interact with. What truly surprised the researcher is that Group B psychics didn’t just regurgitate the same biographical information that Group A psychics were asked to color their fictional ghost with. The Group B psychics were able to obtain detailed information from the fictional ghost about events and people that lived during the time the ghost was supposedly a living person. The detailed historical information was later confirmed by historians of that region.
This story is so far out there that it’s one of those believe it or not stories. Either you decide to totally discount the story or believe in it. If you believe in it, then life becomes a bit more complicated. How does one even begin to explain the research results? If Group A psychics are able to manufacture a fully functional ghost, what are real ghosts?
What do you think?
In the first group, Group A, he had those psychics create in their imagination a totally fictional ghost that haunted a certain castle in England. They tried to imagine the ghost to have a very realistic life. They didn’t just imagine a fictional ghost to haunt a castle, they gave the ghost a name, a reason for haunting the castle, a fictional biography of what it did when it was supposedly alive, and so on. The researcher had Group A meditate on this fictional ghost until they believed him to exist.
In the second group, Group B, he had those psychics try to contact the fictional ghost created by Group A. Bear in mind that neither group knew of the existence of the other. Interestingly enough, the Group B psychics were able to contact the fictional ghost.
The researcher wasn’t too surprised with the results. He anticipated that Group A psychics created a ghostly thoughtform that Group B psychics were able to contact and interact with. What truly surprised the researcher is that Group B psychics didn’t just regurgitate the same biographical information that Group A psychics were asked to color their fictional ghost with. The Group B psychics were able to obtain detailed information from the fictional ghost about events and people that lived during the time the ghost was supposedly a living person. The detailed historical information was later confirmed by historians of that region.
This story is so far out there that it’s one of those believe it or not stories. Either you decide to totally discount the story or believe in it. If you believe in it, then life becomes a bit more complicated. How does one even begin to explain the research results? If Group A psychics are able to manufacture a fully functional ghost, what are real ghosts?
What do you think?
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 8:29 PMor
What is Group A while believing they were contacting a fictional person, actually contacted a real person who wasn't a ghost, but they had brought him over. That is why Group B garnered verifiable information from the Ghost that Group A thought they had created, but were actually a real person who had lived exactly as they thought.
You don't bend the spoon with your mind., Because the spoon isn't real. -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Fri, April 25, 2008 - 8:04 PMInteresting point of veiw. I wish they did more studies or experiments like this to help answer your comments.
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 9:04 PMIt's an interesting bit of physics that teaches us that memory has an atomic weight, and therefore has a physical presence. A friend of mine, a psychic, once was present at a fittng I was doing in a costume shop I managed. He had to leave the room because the psychic load of the shop was so heavy, as are all clothes storage areas.
I suspect it's because the clothing retains the memory of the wearer, which may manifest as a kind of haunting, which in a theatrical wardrobe can mean someone is getting murdered in the same taffeta ballgown eight times a week for six weeks, while on another rack hangs her murderer, her mad lover, and the evil queen who ordered the killing.
So too, if the fictional specter was accurately researched, the character could indeed be fed by the memories of place and objects, and take on a life of it's own, wakening common memories, and possibly the memory imprint of someone who lived a similar life i the castle. -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Fri, April 25, 2008 - 8:17 PMYes, I clearly understand your point. I discovered that I have latent skills in psychometry, or the ability to pick up information from touching objects. Objects can be embedded with information. It happens all the time. It's an interesting possibility to see if a fictional ghost or manufactured thought form could tap into such information.
Azazeal -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 12:55 AMOnly if you are good, and only if you will pay the price. Happy shopping. why the hell would someone be bored enouph to try to manufacture a ghost? -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 9:28 AMGreetings Travis,
From what I read, the researcher was focusing his research efforts on studying the nature of thoughforms. From the comments given earlier, apparently there can be many interpretations to the results of the experiement. What others have pointed out to me is that when were conducting any experiment, we have to consider that we also affect the subject that we're studying just by monitoring it. I didn't realize how complex this kind of experimentation could be.
Azazeal -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 12:47 PM', we have to consider that we also affect the subject that we're studying just by monitoring it. I didn't realize how complex this kind of experimentation could be."
yes, the schrodingers (sp.?) cat theory. and i think it is entirely valid, so much of the time, its our observing that influences the outcome. -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 7:23 PMAhhh..., you know about Schrodinger's cat theroy? Wow, sounds like you're a well read person. Yes, you are right. It's also a belief in quantum mechanics too. The odd thing is that as physicists study the universe more, the more their theories are bridging the gap between science and religion. Oddly enough, I heard somewhere that a well-known group of physicists actually went out of their way to travel out to third-world countries just to study their religious beliefs because they paralleled so much of the current models in theoritical quantum mechanics.
Azazeal -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 8:10 PMto me, science backs up religion.
i'm well read, but considered insane. -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 9:00 PMYes, science is beginning to back up religion or atleast they're moving closer together.
I've heard many say that there's a fine line between being a genius and being insane. There are many things out there that we cannot see or touch. It doesn't mean that they aren't there. Before the microscope was invented, thoughts of itty bitty particles causing sickeness was considered heresy. Now it's common knowledge that bacteria can cause illnesses. I wonder how the world would change if man could actually develop a specterscope to see ghosts, demons, spirits, angels, and fairies(of course).
Azazeal -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 8:33 AMSalvador Dali was known for saying, "The difference between myself and an insane person, is, that i am not insane." -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 10:23 PMHe said that? Really? Interesting. He was quite novel in his imagery. It makes one wonder where his inspiration came from. -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 8:40 AMHis inspriation came from his love, i forget her name, but she was his godess that inspirted him, and he worked a formula he called 'paranoid autonomic schizophrenic activity" if i remember right. -
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Re: Can ghosts be manufactured?
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 8:41 AMAnd it struck me last night while i was walking to work, that the tibetian's 'created' ghosts on purpose, here is a short exerpt you may find intresting:
On the Creation of Tulpas
However interested we may feel in the other strange accomplishments with which Tibetan adepts of the secret lore are credited, the creation of thought forms seems by far the most puzzling.
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Phantoms, as Tibetans describe them, and those that I have myself seen do not resemble the apparitions, which are said to occur during spiritualist séances.
As I have said, some apparitions are created on purpose either by a lengthy process resembling that described in the former chapter on the visualization of Ydam or, in the case of proficient adepts, instantaneously or almost instantaneously. In other cases, apparently the author of the phenomenon generates it unconsciously, and is not even in the least aware of the apparition being seen by others.
However, the practice is considered as fraught with danger for every one who has not reached a high mental and spiritual degree of enlightenment and is not fully aware of the nature of the psychic forces at work in the process.
Once the tulpa is endowed with enough vitality to be capable of playing the part of a real being, it tends to free itself from its maker¹s control. This, say Tibetan occultists, happens nearly mechanically, just as the child, when his body is completed and able to live apart, leaves its mother¹s womb. Sometimes the phantom becomes a rebellious son and one hears of uncanny struggles that have taken place between magicians and their creatures, the former being severely hurt or even killed by the latter.
Tibetan magicians also relate cases in which the tulpa is sent to fulfill a mission, but does not come back and pursues its peregrinations as a half-conscious, dangerously mischievous puppet. The same thing, it is said, may happen when the maker of the tulpa dies before having dissolved it. Yet as a rule the phantom either disappears suddenly at the death of the magician or gradually vanishes like a body that perishes for want of food. On the other hand, some tulpas are expressly intended to survive their creator and are specially formed for that purpose.
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Must we credit these strange accounts of rebellious "materializations", phantoms which have become real beings, or must we reject them all as mere fantastic tales and wild products of imagination?
Perhaps the latter course is the wisest. I affirm nothing. I only relate what I have heard from people whom, in other circumstances, I had found trustworthy, but they may have deluded themselves in all sincerity.
Nevertheless, allowing for a great deal of exaggeration and sensational addition, I could hardly deny the possibility of visualizing and animating a tulpa. Besides having had few opportunities of seeing thought-forms, my habitual incredulity led me to make experiments for myself, and my efforts were attended with some success. In order to avoid being influenced by the forms of the lamaist deities, which I saw daily around me in paintings and images, I chose for my experiment a most insignificant character: a Monk, short and fat, of an innocent and jolly type.
I shut myself in tsams and proceeded to perform the prescribed concentration of thought and other rites. After a few months the phantom Monk was formed. His form grew gradually fixed and lifelike looking. He became a kind of guest, living in my apartment. I then broke my seclusion and started for a tour, with my servants and tents.
The Monk included himself in the party. Though I lived in the open, riding on horseback for miles each day, the illusion persisted. I saw the fat tulpa; now and then it was not necessary for me to think of him to make him appear. The phantom performed various actions of the kind that are natural to travelers and that I had not commanded. For instance, he walked, stopped, looked around him. The illusion was mostly visual, but sometimes I felt as if a robe was lightly rubbing against me, and once a hand seemed to touch my shoulder.
The features which I had imagined, when building my phantom, gradually underwent a change. The fat, chubby-cheeked fellow grew leaner, his face assumed a vaguely mocking, sly, malignant look. He became more troublesome and bold. In brief, he escaped my control. Once, a herdsman who brought me a present of butter saw the tulpa in my tent and took it for a living lama.
I ought to have let the phenomenon follow its course, but the presence of that unwanted companion began to prove trying to my nerves; it turned into a "day-nightmare". Moreover, I was beginning to plan my journey to Lhasa and needed a quiet brain devoid of other preoccupations, so I decided to dissolve the phantom. I succeeded, but only after six months of hard struggle. My mind-creature was tenacious of life.
There is nothing strange in the fact that I may have created my own hallucination. The interesting point is that in these cases of materialization, others see the thought-forms that have been created.
Alexandra David-Neel
Magic and Mystery in Tibet.
University Books Inc., 1965
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