Queer Magic workshop

topic posted Fri, November 16, 2007 - 3:35 AM by  Coyote
Hey guys and gals,

I taking part in a discussion panel about Queer Magic, and how it is alike and different from breeder magic. I'm taking upon myself to discuss various queer deities (you know, gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender).

Ganymede, an early Greek god of the falling rain-morphed into a mortal youth of such beauty it stirred Zeus' passion, is at the top of the list.

As well as Amaterasu, Japanese Sun goddess who hid in a cave and was only lured out by another goddess dancing seductively at the mouth of the cave.

Anybody hear have any stories of gods and goddesses that show some kind of queerness? I'd like to have five to be able to discuss. Plus it would be fun to see what stories are out there. I'm a BIG fan of myth, legend, and story.

Blessings, brethren and sistren, ~Coyote
posted by:
Coyote
Florida
  • Re: Queer Magic workshop

    Fri, November 16, 2007 - 5:59 AM
    Hi Coyote,

    Ganymede is a great example but check your mythology. He was not a god himself but the most handsome mortal, son of a king, when he was abducted by Zeus and became Zeus's cup-bearer.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganymede

    Hugs,

    Rig Daddy (who's boy friend's fae name is Ganymede :)
    • Re: Queer Magic workshop

      Fri, November 16, 2007 - 6:34 AM
      Actually, Rig Daddy,

      I have seen one or two sources that say before the Hellenes Ganymede was a minor god of the falling rain. I will search for those sources and quote them here when I find them.

      Hugs back,
      Coyote
      • Re: Queer Magic workshop

        Fri, November 16, 2007 - 10:24 AM
        Groovy! Thanks.

        Hugs
        • Re: Queer Magic workshop

          Fri, November 16, 2007 - 8:51 PM
          Okay...I only have one source really. Raven Kaldera, she wrote Mythastrology; Exploring Planets & Pantheons, Llewellyn Pub. That's where I first saw it, when she discusses Ganymede. (Venus in Aquarius, fyi).

          Kaldera also wrote Hermaphrodeities, Xlibris Press. I can only assume she did her homework. She seems to have done so on the other deities she covers.
          • Re: Queer Magic workshop

            Sat, November 17, 2007 - 6:35 PM
            Um, Coyote, you are very misinformed dear......Raven Kaldera is indeed intersexed and very vocal Trans-activist, but he self-identifies as a MAN, not a woman, so the pronoun to refer to him is HE not SHE......

            King Raven Kaldera
            King Raven Kaldera was informed many years ago by his patron Goddess that he was to be a King. His reaction at the time was incredulity, as he was at that time well ensconced in nonhierarchical movements, and he comes from a long genetic line of the rankest peasantry. However, the Goddess was determined to have Her way, and she forced him onto a quest to learn what it was to be a King in a sacred Pagan sense, not simply the long-held Christian/material sense.
            He discovered that telling people about his quest gave them a strange urge to swear fealty, and before he knew it he had gathered a group of like-minded pagans about him. The idea for the Kingdom was born in 1999, and he was crowned King by the grace of the Goddess, the will of the People, and the hand of Lady Ruth Le Sanguinnaire, mother goddess incarnate of Asphodel, on September 5, 1999, the day after the Royal Wedding.

            King Raven is accomplished in so many Arts that it would take ten paragraphs to list them all. (If only he had the time to do them!) He and Queen Bella hold down Cauldron Farm, a pagan homestead, herb farm, and retreat center, and the Institute for Heritage Skills. Writer, astrologer, craftsman, farmer, priest, shaman, activist, artist, musician, parent, and organizer, he is the driving force behind the Kingdom, and its spiritual center. He and the Queen have sworn themselves to the Land, and the price is that they are bound to it, and cannot leave its embrace for long. King Raven continues to work on his Quest to be the best pagan king in the world.

            (www.cauldronfarm.com/asphode...era.htm)

            Now as to more sources for LBGT mythology, THE source to go to would be Cassell's Encyclopedia of Queer Myth, Symbol and Spirit: Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Lore (Cassell Sexual Politics Series), by Randy P. Conner [ISBN: 0304704237].....you should be able to find this any reference section of a larger size public library and it is available online used.....

            There are a ton of myths and stories depending on culture, story, gender, and sexuality that you are searching for.......good luck in your search.......but I don't think that you should be speaking on a panel if you don't know this stuff!!!! It is all very basic and rudimentary.
            • Re: Queer Magic workshop

              Mon, November 19, 2007 - 3:14 AM
              Thank you Neil,

              Indeed I did not know Raven's biography. I appreciate your concern about my ability to speak on a panel of gay myth. Your input is duly noted.
  • Re: Queer Magic workshop

    Fri, November 16, 2007 - 2:34 PM
    Well, you could look at Loki of the Norse/Germanic cultures... he gives birth to Sleipnir, and is seen in drag when Thor's hammer was stolen... along with Thor. You can also talk about Freyr's priests being depicted as gay. There is also some reference to Odin doing unmanly things, such as Seidhr, but I can't remember where those references are at the moment.

    You can also look at the Welsh. Gwyddion and his brother are changed into animals by Math for deflowering his foot stool (a virgin woman) and they brothers mate when in these animal forms, and their offspring are changed back into humans and become the 3 heros of the Welsh. Outside of that in the Celtic worlds, it's damn near impossible to find any other references.
  • Re: Queer Magic workshop

    Sat, November 17, 2007 - 4:00 PM
    Greetings,
    I thought that Mother Amaterasu was lured out by the laughter that Mother Uzume's dance invoked and then seeing her own reflection was beguiled to stay outside of the cave?

    Do you want dieties who have become patrons of the Two Spirited/Queer Spirited peoples or ones who themselves are queer?

    There is Mother Inanna who Herself is sometimes called the bearded lady and although i don't recall any tales of her being invovled with a female diety in a sexual manner. It is said that She makes women into men and men into women (she has a praise songw hich states this). Also, I saw somewhere once There was a story where she sees a woman being abused in the streets. She gets rid of the woman's attackers and after taking the pendant that fastened the woman's dress together she gives the woman a sword. She then finds a man and gives him the pendant and afterwards i beleive the refrain is sung of how she truns men into women and women into men.

    In Santeria, Mother Yemaya Herself is not queer, but She was once married to the Great Diviner of the Gods called Orunla. When Orunla was away Mother Yemaya learned how to read the shells. His clients began to come to Her and She soon had clients of Her own. When Orunla returned he noticed his cliental had changed (Many still deferred to Mother Yemaya.) When he found out that She was reading the shells, he prusued Her all over the world, until finally the Great Ocean Mother came to the sea. There in the waters were queer men enjoyng the sun and splashing about in the waves. When they saw Mother Yemaya on the shore exhuasted from the chase. They told Her they would protect Her. She stepped into Herself (the waters) and waded towards them. Orunla reached the shore with the ferocity of a ram and bellowing with fury wanted to pursue her still. The Queer men seeing Orunla so intent on catching their Mother stood true to their word and began tanting him with ideas of having him to themselves "Step in the water," They said with such joval inclinations and yet lustful tones that Orunla marked to leave Mother Yemaya alone (calming his anger) and that his priest shall never read from the shells again. The Queer men saved their Mother and Mother Yemaya is still said to be proud and fond of those of the Queer Spirit. (Orunla is said to still love Mother Yemaya very much and hold the highest reverence for Her and that he even defers to Her wisdom from time to time.)

    In Santeria, there is also the handsome Inle. His lover being Adryonous is sometimes referred to as male and sometimes as female. Many people beleive Inle is bisexual.

    Native American cultures (in my opinion) was very advanced in the understanding of Two Spirited people. We had a place in the cultures and was often times revered. There are many Native American Dieties who could be considered patrons of the Two Spirited. I know of one in paticular. I need to do some research and rediscover His name. I believe it was He and Mother Changing Woman (in the Navajo tradition) who are said to have created two Spirited people. I need to do more research on the subject matter however.

    What of Apollo in the Greek Tradition. He and the East Wind (One of the wings) were once in love with Hyacinth. Choosing between the two, Hyacinth retruned the affections of Apollo. Tragicly while the two were playing at disk the East Wind blew the thing right into Hyacinth's head, killing him. Apollo made a flower sprout at the place where his blood fell.

    There is also a stroy of Set, who once tried to seduce Horus into giving up his inheritence. In one papyrus i beleive Set says to Horus, "My, what a beautiful back side you have."

    If i run across any more i will difinantely let you know. many blessings on the discussion. Peace and love.
    Love is Eternity,
    Dane
    • Re: Queer Magic workshop

      Sat, November 17, 2007 - 4:07 PM
      Oh also the story about Mother Yemaya.... This story is also given as the reason why queer spirited people do not become priest of the Orunla. It is said all his priest must be heterosexual like Him.
      • Re: Queer Magic workshop

        Sat, November 17, 2007 - 6:41 PM
        Wrong.......I am a African Traditional Religious practitioner......initiatied, trained, and ordained! I am a Trans-person and a Priest, so you are wrong......in fact the various Afro-diasporic religions have different takes and attitudes about the whole LBGTQ cause. Again, another plug for Randy Conner here......read Queering Creole Religions before making uneducated guesses that are more than a bit offensive.
        • Re: Queer Magic workshop

          Sat, November 17, 2007 - 10:02 PM
          Benedicion. Forgive me for not qualifying my remarks. That story is one founded in Cuba. The house that I belong to is founded in the tradition in Cuba. I also have a transgendered god sister. I am also Nigerian and have serveral friends who are queer spirited and babalows. So yes u are quite right about that.

          Let it be known that Randy Connor's Queering Creole Traditions is actually one of my favorite books. It was very enlightening for me being a man woman and wishing to be apart of the religions of my ancestors to know that there were others who came before me that were. ( i meant him,as well : he signed my book: he is a very sweet man.)

          IT IS NEVER, Never my intent to offend anyone. that paticular pataki of Yemaya is one that empowers me because it showed me that people like myself (LBGTQ) were able to save a Goddess. If i have offended you I ask forgiveness from not just u but also forgiveness if i have offended ur head. It is my scared duty to attempt to bring religious minded people together.You are my elder in the religion; If there is another version of the story i am unaware of then enlighten me. If there is something that i am unaware then tell me. So once again I ask forgiveness.

          Many blessings. Peace and love.
          Love is Eternity,
          Dane
          • Re: Queer Magic workshop

            Sun, November 18, 2007 - 5:28 AM
            Benedicion Dane! No harm, no foul......just that in the greater scope of society our religions are greatly misunderstood and I try not to leave too much room for speculation or misinterpretation. Ashe-o!
    • Re: Queer Magic workshop

      Mon, November 19, 2007 - 3:57 AM
      Thank you Dane,

      That's a wonderful story about Yemaya. I also remember hearing a tale that Shango once dressed as a woman, but I don't recall the details.

      I believe I read the story of Amaterasu in Mother Tongue, a book about gay language and lingo and where certain words came from.

      Peace, brother ~ Coyote

      PS I remember a story about Coyote lending his penis to a friend so he could infiltrate and seduce a group of women. When he found a woman he wanted he went back to get his penis and the friend wouldn't give it back.
      • Re: Queer Magic workshop

        Tue, November 20, 2007 - 8:07 PM
        Hay,

        You welcome.

        I remember hearing about Coyote when i was younger but that one is new for me. Thank you for sharing it.

        I love that story about Shango.... There seems to be many versions of the same story but the one i am most told is that Shango was trying to escape his enemies and he came upon Mama Oya. Oya looking on him fondly decided to help him escape. She cut off her braids and along with some of her clothes gave them to him to wear. When his enemies came, it is said one or the other taken by the joy of battle faught with them and the other jumped out and got into the middle of things as well. Chango's enemies are said to have run away because they were frightened that they were facing two Oya's.

        Another version of the story says Oya was holding him captive and in order to escape Her guards he dressed like Her.

        Many blessings. peace and love.
        Love is Eternity,
        Dane

        p.s i have to try to pick up Mother Tongue.
        • Re: Queer Magic workshop

          Wed, November 21, 2007 - 3:59 AM
          I apologize, I just looked it up at Amazon.com and it's "Another Mother Tongue" by Judy Grahn
          • Re: Queer Magic workshop

            Wed, November 21, 2007 - 6:58 AM
            This is a VERY dated work......there are a plethora of other, and much better works available.....especially if you are interested in Orisha studies (check the bibliography). I recommend this book as a staple of any Queer Studies and Religion library but content leaves A LOT to be desired.
            • Re: Queer Magic workshop

              Sun, November 25, 2007 - 9:10 PM
              I had quite a different experience with the book. I found it full of stories and information. And while some of the points were vague, it all gave me a spring board into finding deeper info elsewhere. To be sure, the book was not written to tell stories, but to tell the origins of words.
              • Re: Queer Magic workshop

                Mon, November 26, 2007 - 7:59 PM
                Yes, but what good is information that is dated from 1984 which is the original publication of the book or the 'updated and expanded' version (if you could call it that) from 1990 for a panel which you are participating in in 2007??? The content of this book as a resource for such a panel gives little to no practical information, however if theory/history/sociology is your thing then this might offer some sort of interest as a springboard as you said, but only that.......and then as I previously mentioned I would hunt down every book mentioned in the bibiography possible and every source quoted. There are many many MANY more quality pieces/sources out there......but sure, it worth getting this book used on amazon or in your neighborhood used bookshop......
  • Re: Queer Magic workshop

    Mon, November 19, 2007 - 11:50 AM
    Hyacithe, lover of Apollo. Pan seems to be willing to participate in anything that is sex...

    there are many...
    • Re: Pan and Clarity

      Sun, November 25, 2007 - 9:29 PM
      There's no seeming about it. Pan is sex. He represents that animal lust in all of us, in all of nature. And not for just reproduction. He'd have his way with shepherd boys as easily as flower picking maidens. He'd give it up just as soon as take it, too. Of course, he is also that which rapes. Anybody have a specific story about Pan they'd like to share?

      Just to be clear...this workshop I'm doing is for a religious festival and completely volunteered. I'm a member of Everglades Moon local council of Covenant of the Goddess. And we are the group that's putting on the festival. Any stories that I share in the workshop will be given due credit, including written hand outs, and no money will be collected for the hand outs.

      Again, I posted this to also get a good discussion going amongst those I thought would be interested in it.
  • Re: Queer Magic workshop

    Tue, December 11, 2007 - 1:06 PM
    I would like to thank everyone that contributed something useful on this thread. The workshop went wonderfully!

    Blessed Be the Queer Ones!