Hello everyone,
The editor asked me if I would mind posting my letter here, so I'm pasting it below. (I also posted it to my blog.) I sent it directly to the company, so I wasn't expecting comments, but if anyone would like to, I guess that's cool, too.
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Hi, this is in repsonse to this article: www.gildedserpent.com/art42/r...ibal.htm
Way to slam the Bellydance Community.
Well, I suppose under the cloak of "critique" and "review" we could just start pulling hair and sticking your foot out to trip people up…
I think we all learned this in preschool: the triangular object will not fit into the round hole, and vice versa. Yes, they have the main thing in common, they are both shapes. But no, they are not alike and their differences have to be appreciated in order to get through your peg-plugging session. You could get stubborn and hammer the crap out of that shape and try to cram it in there, but what would be the point of that? You just get frustrated, fail, and it makes you look mental. We learned that when we all grew up. Most of us learned it, mostly.
"Traditional" styles of BD and certain other styles, don't fit into each other's "pegs", people. They just don't. And that's okay! Yes, they are both the same dance, and share similarites. But, they are different shapes. Now take a long deep breath…and just LET IT GO.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Because I realize, after reading so much negativity on this subject, that it must truly kill you to let it go, like someone close to you has really kicked the bucket and the funeral is still fresh. But cheer up, after Denial and one of those others grieving steps, Acceptance is somewhere in there, and Acceptance is a good one. Cause you will be less frustrated with that style of dance you dislike so much, and you will look less mental for trying to make it "fit" into the techniques and ideals of a different style.
For the most part, I don't have a problem with reviews.
Just because someone is critiquing something, does NOT mean that they are haters. Saying you don't like a particular thing does not automatically mean that you are coming from a place of jealously. I disagree with the idea that the review or critique of anyone else's art form is bad or wrong, in and of itself. There are positives that can be gotten in honest critique for many people.
But some of these people's reviews I've read, are clearly coming from a place of jealously, (professional or otherwise), hostility, and from a place that sounds an awful lot like: "I don't like this Tribal Thing, I've tried scrapping it off the bottom of my shoe but it's really popular now (gagging on "p" word) and it's stuck there for good, soooo…I will throw a few very well-written and thought out compliments it's way in some performance and DVD reviews, that way I can totally compliment and slam it simultaneously, happily sounding off without seeming like a complete asshole."
Nice, people. Real nice.
So I guess what I meant by the first statement, 'way to slam the community'… is when you poo poo on one of us, doesn't it just get us all dirty, really? Because it's seriously catty and divides Bellydance along the Us vs. Them lines?
How can a person who calls themselves a bellydancer, which to me is a dance rooted in self-expression and love of life, say to another dancer, with their Style Checklist firmly in hand…"no, no, wrong, everything you're doing is wrong, oh no, that's bad, and also, NO."
Wow, you are totally trying to kill that dancer's spirit. Why would you do that? No seriously, you are literally sucking the joy out of her dance.
And also, how very two-faced of you. Cause I see on the one hand … "dance and be happy and be beautiful in your own skin and practice and drill and grow in the dance and just be superawesome, go, go, go, Go Team Go…" but on the other hand…
"g-damnint you better look the way we look, pose the way we pose, and don't you dare change anything or it'll be wrong and YOU'LL be wrong. Don't mess with us. We have internets."… "Bitches."
I don't think there's anything wrong with critique (And I'm not talking about the basics, drills, form, etc. I'm talking about creative style.) coming from a place of describing what it is about the dance that is not for you, or that you don't understand. That's one thing, But when it's coming from a place of hostility because you can't stand it simply because it is what it is, that's not so much a real review as a just entertainment for those who love a good hard slam. Woot! It's fun, isn't it? Sure it is! And don't let anybody tell you different either. Cause that's just what we need more of in Bellydance. Enemies! Mmm, mm!! Nothing like going through the day with fresh thoughts of disliking those who are not doin' stuff they way we want'em to be doin' it. Loathing, baked fresh daily.
Really. I don't think it's serves Bellydance for all of us dancers to hate each other so much. You heard me.
Out of all the groups and forums and discussions I've had with various dancers, overall, overwhelmingly, I have yet to see Tribal dancers go after the jugular of other style dancers, the way other styles go after Tribal.
I do realize Tribal has become very popular, and well, perhaps that's the thing. Sorta like the pretty girl at school, who is actually a kind, great person, but she's hated anyway because she's pretty. Shallow.
Something becomes popular, there's a backlash. Which I've always thought was retarded anyway. There are just people out there who automatically react to something they don't care for as if they've just contracted rabies. Whipping their heads around, foaming at the mouth as they pound away on their keyboards.
Please, calm down.
No one is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do. Did the Tribal Hit Squad throw a bag over your head and drag you off someplace, put you into a Fusion-style getup and make you pop or slink around to that uber-creepy goth music and hip-hop??? Wow, no they did not. As a matter of fact, nothing like that happened to anybody anywhere. So seriously, what are you so effing disgruntled about?
If you believe that your own Bellydance style is long and strong, and it's doing it's thing, and you love it, then what are you complaining about?
And here's another nugget: If you are not a fan of the style, but you are trying Fusion workshops, then you are interested in some part of something you saw in it. So, you think the choreography is too busy or choppy or whatever? You think the movements aren't cohesive or lyrical enough? Hey guess what, sister. Change it. Put your own thing on it, and change it to make it more beautiful, more powerful, more whatever, just better for you. Go on, don't be scared. No one will stop you. Because that's one of the things I sorta noticed about Fusion, one of the things you seem to dislike: they altered some specified format of a dance, to make themselves happy. You can do it too, Punchanella, Punchanella…
There is no point in telling another dancer what she should be doing. You like your idea so much? YOU do it.
And actually, I was surprised at the tone of the review I just read, until I reread two quotes that I missed before:
" If you're already into Tribal Fusion or its moodier cousin Raks Gothique, this features some of the top TF stylists showing how it's supposed to look at its best. And these dancers are all very, very skilled. If you are a die-hard traditionalist who thinks Tribal Fusion and Gothic bellydance are a plague upon the land, this won't change your mind, so save your pennies."
" Also, I'm not exactly a wholehearted aficionado of Tribal anything."
LOL! If I'd noticed that last comment first, BEFORE I started reading the review, the tone would had made a lot more sense.
The editor asked me if I would mind posting my letter here, so I'm pasting it below. (I also posted it to my blog.) I sent it directly to the company, so I wasn't expecting comments, but if anyone would like to, I guess that's cool, too.
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Hi, this is in repsonse to this article: www.gildedserpent.com/art42/r...ibal.htm
Way to slam the Bellydance Community.
Well, I suppose under the cloak of "critique" and "review" we could just start pulling hair and sticking your foot out to trip people up…
I think we all learned this in preschool: the triangular object will not fit into the round hole, and vice versa. Yes, they have the main thing in common, they are both shapes. But no, they are not alike and their differences have to be appreciated in order to get through your peg-plugging session. You could get stubborn and hammer the crap out of that shape and try to cram it in there, but what would be the point of that? You just get frustrated, fail, and it makes you look mental. We learned that when we all grew up. Most of us learned it, mostly.
"Traditional" styles of BD and certain other styles, don't fit into each other's "pegs", people. They just don't. And that's okay! Yes, they are both the same dance, and share similarites. But, they are different shapes. Now take a long deep breath…and just LET IT GO.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Because I realize, after reading so much negativity on this subject, that it must truly kill you to let it go, like someone close to you has really kicked the bucket and the funeral is still fresh. But cheer up, after Denial and one of those others grieving steps, Acceptance is somewhere in there, and Acceptance is a good one. Cause you will be less frustrated with that style of dance you dislike so much, and you will look less mental for trying to make it "fit" into the techniques and ideals of a different style.
For the most part, I don't have a problem with reviews.
Just because someone is critiquing something, does NOT mean that they are haters. Saying you don't like a particular thing does not automatically mean that you are coming from a place of jealously. I disagree with the idea that the review or critique of anyone else's art form is bad or wrong, in and of itself. There are positives that can be gotten in honest critique for many people.
But some of these people's reviews I've read, are clearly coming from a place of jealously, (professional or otherwise), hostility, and from a place that sounds an awful lot like: "I don't like this Tribal Thing, I've tried scrapping it off the bottom of my shoe but it's really popular now (gagging on "p" word) and it's stuck there for good, soooo…I will throw a few very well-written and thought out compliments it's way in some performance and DVD reviews, that way I can totally compliment and slam it simultaneously, happily sounding off without seeming like a complete asshole."
Nice, people. Real nice.
So I guess what I meant by the first statement, 'way to slam the community'… is when you poo poo on one of us, doesn't it just get us all dirty, really? Because it's seriously catty and divides Bellydance along the Us vs. Them lines?
How can a person who calls themselves a bellydancer, which to me is a dance rooted in self-expression and love of life, say to another dancer, with their Style Checklist firmly in hand…"no, no, wrong, everything you're doing is wrong, oh no, that's bad, and also, NO."
Wow, you are totally trying to kill that dancer's spirit. Why would you do that? No seriously, you are literally sucking the joy out of her dance.
And also, how very two-faced of you. Cause I see on the one hand … "dance and be happy and be beautiful in your own skin and practice and drill and grow in the dance and just be superawesome, go, go, go, Go Team Go…" but on the other hand…
"g-damnint you better look the way we look, pose the way we pose, and don't you dare change anything or it'll be wrong and YOU'LL be wrong. Don't mess with us. We have internets."… "Bitches."
I don't think there's anything wrong with critique (And I'm not talking about the basics, drills, form, etc. I'm talking about creative style.) coming from a place of describing what it is about the dance that is not for you, or that you don't understand. That's one thing, But when it's coming from a place of hostility because you can't stand it simply because it is what it is, that's not so much a real review as a just entertainment for those who love a good hard slam. Woot! It's fun, isn't it? Sure it is! And don't let anybody tell you different either. Cause that's just what we need more of in Bellydance. Enemies! Mmm, mm!! Nothing like going through the day with fresh thoughts of disliking those who are not doin' stuff they way we want'em to be doin' it. Loathing, baked fresh daily.
Really. I don't think it's serves Bellydance for all of us dancers to hate each other so much. You heard me.
Out of all the groups and forums and discussions I've had with various dancers, overall, overwhelmingly, I have yet to see Tribal dancers go after the jugular of other style dancers, the way other styles go after Tribal.
I do realize Tribal has become very popular, and well, perhaps that's the thing. Sorta like the pretty girl at school, who is actually a kind, great person, but she's hated anyway because she's pretty. Shallow.
Something becomes popular, there's a backlash. Which I've always thought was retarded anyway. There are just people out there who automatically react to something they don't care for as if they've just contracted rabies. Whipping their heads around, foaming at the mouth as they pound away on their keyboards.
Please, calm down.
No one is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do. Did the Tribal Hit Squad throw a bag over your head and drag you off someplace, put you into a Fusion-style getup and make you pop or slink around to that uber-creepy goth music and hip-hop??? Wow, no they did not. As a matter of fact, nothing like that happened to anybody anywhere. So seriously, what are you so effing disgruntled about?
If you believe that your own Bellydance style is long and strong, and it's doing it's thing, and you love it, then what are you complaining about?
And here's another nugget: If you are not a fan of the style, but you are trying Fusion workshops, then you are interested in some part of something you saw in it. So, you think the choreography is too busy or choppy or whatever? You think the movements aren't cohesive or lyrical enough? Hey guess what, sister. Change it. Put your own thing on it, and change it to make it more beautiful, more powerful, more whatever, just better for you. Go on, don't be scared. No one will stop you. Because that's one of the things I sorta noticed about Fusion, one of the things you seem to dislike: they altered some specified format of a dance, to make themselves happy. You can do it too, Punchanella, Punchanella…
There is no point in telling another dancer what she should be doing. You like your idea so much? YOU do it.
And actually, I was surprised at the tone of the review I just read, until I reread two quotes that I missed before:
" If you're already into Tribal Fusion or its moodier cousin Raks Gothique, this features some of the top TF stylists showing how it's supposed to look at its best. And these dancers are all very, very skilled. If you are a die-hard traditionalist who thinks Tribal Fusion and Gothic bellydance are a plague upon the land, this won't change your mind, so save your pennies."
" Also, I'm not exactly a wholehearted aficionado of Tribal anything."
LOL! If I'd noticed that last comment first, BEFORE I started reading the review, the tone would had made a lot more sense.
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Thu, December 27, 2007 - 10:58 AMCan you elaborate on how you believe the author came across as jealous or otherwise angry or upset in her writing? -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Thu, December 27, 2007 - 10:59 AMWhoops, hit reply too fast.
Just because someone isn't a fan of a style doesn't mean they can't give valid opinions and make astute observations. And I am not sure what it is that you read that made you feel these reviews were coming from a place of negativity rather than just valid personal opinion which others may not share.
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Thu, December 27, 2007 - 9:47 PMHi Shay,
Don't misunderstand me, I wasn't saying that we all have to like the same stuff.
If I were to say... Classic style bellydancers are one hip shake and shoulder shimmy away from being like lapdancers, that could also be what's known as a " valid personal opinion which others may not share". That doesn't mean I wouldn't be a hole for posting something like that all over forums.
Here's a comment I posted elsewhere that I should also add here:
"I'm not saying she didn't have some valid things to say in some parts, and as a consumer and practitioner I definitely think people should give their opinions. But in my opinion her tone was full of derision for Tribal Fusion in general, not for the DVDs being a poor example of it or anything like that, but for elements of the style, and it simply being what it is."
Like I said, I didn't even realize until I reread it, that the writer was NOT a fan of Tribal, not at first. Which is why as I was reading her thoughts on the first one, I could not understand why her tone was so…icky. Then I read more carefully and saw her comments about not being a fan, and then went 'ah, now I get it.'. Her tone then made sense. Sad. (I also call unnecessary roughness on her pubic hair comment. I mean, come on. Are we in grade school or what?)
Critique and review all you like, but taking constructive criticism from someone who made it known that they can't stand you? I feel that's rather like taking a large pine cone up the arse. No thanks! LOL
It is not just the Gilded Serpent article. This particular review caused my reply not just because of a few disagreeable comments the writer made in that article, but it also brought to mind things written by other people/dancers that I've read in various places, for the last couple of years now, in regards to Tribal style dancers. I kept seeing this horrible attitude towards the Tribal dance style pop up over and over again and when I came across the DVD review article, I finally just had to ask, "Is it just me, or are these people bitchy as hell??" I use "they", "these people" and "them" a lot when I think about this, because I'm speaking of a lot more than a couple of people on one forum.
(Oh, also, since I thought this type of online reviewing is also meant to promote community/interactivity as well as responsibility (standing behind what you say), why are the dancers quoted in her article are granted anonymity, while reviewers and even readers are directed to give their names to everyone.)
You asked about the jealousy part… Not every negative comment is born from jealously, I don't think that at all, but some of this negativity IS. And if you don't understand that about people and human nature, then I can't explain it to you.
I'm not saying that people are not entitled to their opinions, they SO are. Please help yourself to some Opinions and Freedom of Speech. Hey, look at me, I'm partaking.
But--and this important-- these same people who have no reservations at all about commenting on a particular style as if it is a "plague", should not also be acting like they are about "sisterhood" and the bellydance "community", when they are constantly and deliberately, mocking and gnashing at others, publicly no less, who are also members of that same community with their get-outta-my-sandbox attitude. And then expecting everyone to ignore it because it's just their opinion. Sorry, but that's bending over and telling that community to pucker up.
If you do not like a thing, and would like to share your opinion on it, that's fine. But don't serve a poo-poo platter and tell everyone it's their favorite dish. Just because a person wears the disclaimer: "I don't like Tribal", does not mean that everything they say afterward, no matter how uncalled for, should be just accepted as okay, because it is their "valid opinion". Freedom of speech was not reserved for people with decency, manners, or professional courtesy, I realize that, but that's doesn't mean I don't get to call foul where I feel I see one. -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Thu, December 27, 2007 - 9:53 PMWait a second. Did I even your question?? I can't tell anymore, I write too fast.
I'll have go back tomorrow and reread the article again, see if I can pick out specific parts for you. It's particulary her tone, overall. -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Thu, December 27, 2007 - 9:54 PMGah. That should have been 'did I even ANSWER your question'....
It's so time for sleep now. -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 9:00 AMExisting articles on this very subject from the GS Archives! Critique is healthy, encourages support and growth in our community.
8-16-06 What Middle Eastern Audiences Expect from a Belly Dancer by Leila
Audiences in the Middle East, especially Egyptians, see bellydancing as something to be participated in, critiqued, and loved (or hated) with gusto.
4-12-03 On the Subject of Critique
The Critic; Real Critics Don’t Mince Words by Najia El-Mouzayen
Either we are a sisterhood of ego therapists and our instructors are politically correct in all they say and do—or we are tough artists in search of ways to improve our art form by ruthlessly weeding out the lame from our herd.
www.gildedserpent.com/article...ique.htm
The Emperor’s New Clothes by Yasmela/ Shelley Muzzy
Until we see ourselves in the context of a larger society, no one outside of our community will accord us the respect we desire.
www.gildedserpent.com/article...ique.htm
Critiquing, the “Agony & The Ecstasy” by Nisima
It’s an unnerving experience to be “critiqued” by your peers, but my personal opinion then and now is that when you perform in public, critiquing just goes with the territory of performing.
www.gildedserpent.com/article...ique.htm
8-15-06 Bellydance Journalism, Rhythm and Reason Series, Article 14 by Mary Ellen Donald
One powerful tool used to mislead is bellydance journalism.
www.gildedserpent.com/art37/m...en14.htm -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 9:04 AMlink for Leila's article
www.gildedserpent.com/art36/L...nces.htm
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 1:26 PM"Existing articles on this very subject from the GS Archives! Critique is healthy, encourages support and growth in our community. "
I might take a look at those later, thanks for posting. Though, as I *think* I've said, I don't have a problem with the act of Critique.
I have a problem with condescension and bitchiness.
And, though I haven't seen these yet, I expect truthfulness and speaking your mind to be used as an excuse a lot in such articles, as it is on the rest of the net. I've heard my share of, 'oh, don't mind me, I'm just blunt' or 'that's person's a no-nonsense, harsh reviewer, you go girl'.
Um, not so much.
I'm not yet duped enough to accept that it's okay to use critique as a tool for treating other people like they are outcasts, and less than someone else. Or more like a weapon. Seriously, anyone who cannot tell the difference, especially when it's being done subtly, is not paying attention. -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 3:07 PMI don't know what to say. I personally found the article well written and articulate, and not in the least "bitchy". I am a tribal and tribal fusion artist myself, and can see a lot of very valid points in her critique, which I thought was delivered with a decent balance of positive as well as constructively critical assessments.
Maybe taking those constructively critical comments personally would lead someone to read bitchiness into the article, but I certainly didn't and still don't feel there was any "tone" to the article which implied bitchiness, jealousy, etc. Her review was quite lengthy, and went into excellent technical detail as to why she liked or did not like certain aspects of the videos and performances. And I could easily see these same critiques of many videos out there, not limited to style: for instance, lack of emotion/ability to connect with the audience or camera in this case, lack of variety, lighting/photography, etc. -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 5:04 PMI'm with Shay. Frankly, I'm bewildered by the original post in this thread. I thought the critiques were a very balanced and well thought out review of the artistic merits of the DVDs rather thanthe merits of the styles presented. Just becaus tribal isn't her preference doesn't mean her opinions of various aspects of the DVDs are not valid or that they're bitchy or anti-tribal. -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 7:36 PM"I thought the critiques were a very balanced and well thought out review of the artistic merits of the DVDs rather thanthe merits of the styles"
We were experiencing that artcle in two different ways, Diana. LOL But, that's okay, right? :)
And I'm could just be out of the loop on how to write about fellow dancers and a style, but the pubic hair and "plague" comment? That's bitchy as hell. Even if it were not the writer herself saying it, she put it in her article, so it sorta bitched-out those particular segments for sure.
And, to sorta reiterate, to head off the defensive forming that's thinking that I didn't like the article simply because I disagree with the writer's view on the DVD and Tribal Fusion, that is incorrect. I did *not* disagree with some of her comments at all, and the rest of the article was downright nifty. So that was not the spark the lit the fire under my ass that cause me to type off a letter to Gilded Serpent. :D
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 5:16 PMLike I said, subtlety.
And I never said it wasn't well written. In fact, I think in my letter I said I detected a demeaning "tone", wrapped up in a very well written, article that was also full of compliments. Or something like that.
And I also agree with a few points mentioned, for example, the choreography and tribal connection. I completely agree with you that the article was well written and long and very detailed, dotting i's, crossing t's. So? What does that have to do with the 'tude?. These things are apples and oranges.
As for taking it personally, I don't think it's out of place for a person to question being told 'you are not welcome in our community'. Take away all the internet anonymity and distance and the semi-professional etiquette, and that's really what you have.
Shay, honestly I'm not trying to be a pain or leave you speechless. LOL
Actually, I think what would help you understand my p.o.v is if I tell you exactly what I think the tone I heard sounded like. I'll send it via message, okay? And if you have any other opinions or insight to share afterward, please feel free to send it at me, I always try to see things from other's point of view. -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 5:38 PM"As for taking it personally, I don't think it's out of place for a person to question being told 'you are not welcome in our community'. Take away all the internet anonymity and distance and the semi-professional etiquette, and that's really what you have."
I am sorry, but wha?? Where did she imply in any way shape or form that we are not welcome in "her" community??
I am thoroughly confused now. -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 9:13 PMNo, no, you know what I mean, I was using that as an example. Of the overall thing. Hang on, lemme find that quote and try to break this down, as I see it, so I won't be misunderstood again.
From the article:
" If you are a die-hard traditionalist who thinks Tribal Fusion and Gothic bellydance are a plague upon the land, this won't change your mind, so save your pennies."
Now, I know, I know...oh lighten up she was just making a joke, good times, right? Sure, sure okay...but hang on. I'm sure she was trying to be both funny and derisive with the comment, but in reality, if you have been out there in the *same* Internet that I've been in, then that description is not at all inaccurate. That is dead on. There are people who do not agree to disagree with Tribal and hughug, kisskiss, let's still be friends....there are people who instead have no problem with treating ATS /Tribal styles like sh*t. And the last time I checked, poo was icky and being scraped off. Pardon the language,everyone, but that's just how it is. Now, if I do the math on that:
People who treat Tribal style like poo are fellow bellydancers +
ATS/Tribal styles is a bellydance style+
People who practice and perform ATS/Tribal are bellydancers+
People who treat Tribal style like poo are treating ATS/Tribal bellydancers like poo=
Bellydancers are treating fellow bellydancers like poo
Now, that's the bare bones of how I see it. Unless I missed a part in the middle somewhere, the whole thing translates directly into "please eff off, we don't like it. goodbye. the end". And since those involved are ALL bellydancers, all a part of the same "community", *that* is effectively saying 'You are not welcome here'. Is it not?
People can try to complicate it, but no matter how you spin it, the underlying sentiment is the same. If I, as a Classical/Egyptian style dancer, (or any other style other not Tribal), were to say to a Tribal dancer that we traditionalists didn't like her style, it was wrong and she shouldn't be doing it, then I have just seriously un-welcomed her. And vice versa.
The article carried some of the icky tone (I realize no one here shares that opinion), that so many others take to the extreme, and that's exactly what I thought of when I read it, and that is what I meant. Not just one or two people, but all of it together.
Did that clarify at all?? -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Sat, December 29, 2007 - 1:16 AMSo you are holding this one reviewer responsible for all of the vitriol you have experienced toward tribal in the past? Or at least imposing all of your past hurts invoked by those people onto this reviewer, and implying she is one of "them"?
Is that it in a nutshell? -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Sat, December 29, 2007 - 11:59 AMNah. It would great if it were that simple. (because boy would I name names!)
But no, I've personally had positive interactions with people.
But just because I haven't been mistreated, doesn't mean that I'm blind to this stuff and should not say something.. Rebecca (I went and got her name, tired of calling her "the writer") exhibited a small part of what I consider a problem, and that's the last article I read, so that's who gets the letter. (Sorry, Lynette, I'm sure it's just what you've always wanted :D )
Am I holding her personally responsible for what everyone else says? Nope.
Am I holding her responsible for what she writes? Yep.
I'm sure I said already that my letter was in reaction to all of it, not just one person alone, but the whole sad mess. So no confusion there.
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 5:25 PM"I might take a look at those later, thanks for posting. Though, as I *think* I've said, I don't have a problem with the act of Critique.
I have a problem with condescension and bitchiness...I expect truthfulness and speaking your mind to be used as an excuse a lot in such articles, as it is on the rest of the net. "
And from the general tone of your own rant--including your rash judgement that the reviewer is being bitchy in her review when in fact she offered a rather good review--I expect anyone whose opinion doesn't match your own in a review would labelled as condescending and bitchy.
Aside from that...a review (a real review like that which compelled this discussion...not some unwanted commentary about a youtube clip or gossip about a hafla performance, which is a totally different animal) is not meant to be constructive. It's meant to give people an honest perspective of their opinion of something so that they may compare it with other honest opinions and decide if they want to invest their hard-earned dollars in that item. Constructive crit is for the benefit of the artist and should come from teachers, friends, and contemporaries regarding a personal performance. A review is for the benefit of the consumer and is not meant to coddle the artist but rather to let their prospective customers know what to expect from their product. While it should not be bitchy, it doesn't have to lift up the artist in any way, shape, or form. I see far more accusations of bitchy reviewing, however, than I see actual bitchy reviewing. I don't think the reviews given were bitchy at all. -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 7:41 PM"nd from the general tone of your own rant--including your rash judgement that the reviewer is being bitchy in her review when in fact she offered a rather good review--I expect anyone whose opinion doesn't match your own in a review would labelled as condescending and bitchy. "
Nope, that would be incorrect. See my above reply to you. I think we were posting at the same time. :D
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 7:51 PMOh, and I think I also said, somewhere up there in all the words, because I truly believe it, that as a consumer and a practitioner, a person should be able to give a review or critque of a product. Again, these things are apples and oranges to what I'm talking about.
Actually, I think because no one is getting what I'm saying, possibly because I'm not making myself clear at all, I think I should have titled my original post : "Comments in response to an article that had a "tone" which reminded me of the negative behavior towards a dance style by many writers all over net, who insist on treating these other dancers as if they've done something wrong and must be told and told often."
Ah, there. That fixed it.
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 8:02 PMQuote: "I don't think it's out of place for a person to question being told 'you are not welcome in our community'. Take away all the internet anonymity and distance and the semi-professional etiquette, and that's really what you have.
An author writing for an edited magazine is not hiding behind internet anonymity. I too have seen lots of comments on various dance forums that imply certain styles are not welcome or valid, but I disagree that this applies here.
In fact, I think being a member of a community and authoring constructive critiques of dance related products is brave, is very rare in the belly dance media, and is also, perhaps, really respectful of the artists' work (ie, I *am* taking you seriously as a member of the community, and will approach and react to your product or performance in that manner).
(By the way Rem, thanks for posting your letter here and for being open to responses.) -
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Re: Comments in response to an article...
Fri, December 28, 2007 - 9:38 PMHi Monica,
Thank you very much for your response!
I agree that the magazine does not do the total anonymity thing, so that does not apply here. I was talking about the internet in general. Even people who use their actual names or partials are protected from responsibility to a certain degree because it's words on a screen and you are not actually in a person's face saying what you're typing. So hey, they let it all hang out. And forget lists and forums, gah that is a wasteland sometimes. Some people who are more known will definitely use what I consider semi-professional etiquette and while they will say a personal thing here or there, will not make it too personal, because hey, people know who they are and it might get back to the person they are talking about and then there you go.
With the exception of the GS Snakebyte letters, I have unjoined every other forum I've ever been on. Until Tribe.
I think review of dance products is the ONLY way most of us are able to sort through all the stuff, because I sure can't afford to just buy things and not know anything about it, I just don't have that kind of money. :D I have a couple of videos right now that I bought on the fly that I wish I'd read a few different reviews on before I bought them. I'm not against review. :)
Thanks again!
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