I've concluded that no popular tribe for political discussion remains worth a damn for long because they either fall to idea censorship by the moderator or trollish behavior by the members. I've never yet seen a moderator do anything productive. They either do nothing or use censorship to defend cronies and boot those who would challenge them. And if someone tries to combat the entrenched trolls, they are the one who gets booted, not the entrenched troublemakers.
I began my "Satan" tribe identity as an anti-troll, about two years ago. I gave trolls and tribe bullies dose of their own medicine, figuring that my legal mind, sharp tongue and persistance could undo or unnerve them. It worked from time to time, but it is a losing effort. And in the process, I became a tribe identity who was often no better than the trolls I set out to destroy. By using a variation of their same tactics, I became one of them. It was an interesting learning experience, but ultimately a failure.
A lot of the trolling is done by people who don't think of themselves as trolls. They use their real identities, but they troll like hell. So what if you are not an alt? If you call people names and make inflammatory statements, you are a troll.
So I am hoping to start a politics tribe where name calling and trolling and similar TOU violations are not allowed, but ideas of any kind are allowed. I would like to start a tribe where any enforcement of the rule is done fairly, without the influence or bias or personal agenda of the moderator or any other person. It is not easy to be fair, but I think my legal training gives me an edge on that.
Hopefully the free flow ideas will keep it interesting. What keeps most tribes interesting is the drama that comes from flamming and trolling. I would like to see if we can have a tribe that is interesting because of the ideas expressed and the arguments made. Without the name calling.
I am not that optimistic. I've tried this before, using my real identity, but the membership never reached critical mass. But I am willing to give it a try. Maybe I can use my notorious Satan alt for some good for this purpose by attracting more people such a tribe.
I began my "Satan" tribe identity as an anti-troll, about two years ago. I gave trolls and tribe bullies dose of their own medicine, figuring that my legal mind, sharp tongue and persistance could undo or unnerve them. It worked from time to time, but it is a losing effort. And in the process, I became a tribe identity who was often no better than the trolls I set out to destroy. By using a variation of their same tactics, I became one of them. It was an interesting learning experience, but ultimately a failure.
A lot of the trolling is done by people who don't think of themselves as trolls. They use their real identities, but they troll like hell. So what if you are not an alt? If you call people names and make inflammatory statements, you are a troll.
So I am hoping to start a politics tribe where name calling and trolling and similar TOU violations are not allowed, but ideas of any kind are allowed. I would like to start a tribe where any enforcement of the rule is done fairly, without the influence or bias or personal agenda of the moderator or any other person. It is not easy to be fair, but I think my legal training gives me an edge on that.
Hopefully the free flow ideas will keep it interesting. What keeps most tribes interesting is the drama that comes from flamming and trolling. I would like to see if we can have a tribe that is interesting because of the ideas expressed and the arguments made. Without the name calling.
I am not that optimistic. I've tried this before, using my real identity, but the membership never reached critical mass. But I am willing to give it a try. Maybe I can use my notorious Satan alt for some good for this purpose by attracting more people such a tribe.
posted by:
|
|
Unsubscribed |
-
Unsu...
Re: no troll zone
Sun, June 4, 2006 - 6:56 AM -
-
Re: no troll zone
Sun, June 4, 2006 - 12:11 PMThe reaction to a troll is an honest reaction. Naturally, politics must be destroyed as a result.
You had to know that. -
-
Re: no troll zone
Sun, June 4, 2006 - 7:47 PM"They use their real identities, but they troll like hell. So what if you are not an alt? If you call people names and make inflammatory statements, you are a troll. "
This is a fundamental error, it seems to me. An actual person is entitled to express political beliefs (even radical ones you find distasteful), but a mask isn't. Ole Satan seems to have an affinity for (if no actual connection to) Southern culture. That means he knows all about the Ku Klux Klan. So he knows maintaining an army of alts-as-hoods speaks very poorly of his faith in creed and self.
Using falsefaces to troll individual tribers (usually women) isn't exactly a Profile in Courage either. -
-
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 7:40 AM<<An actual person is entitled to express political beliefs (even radical ones you find distasteful), but a mask isn't. >>
That's not quite accurate, Rockstar. I am an alt, and yet I am free to express political beliefs. If I fail to defend them rationally, decending into ad hominems and blatant falsehoods, then I become a troll. I hope that I never do that. I think it is also what distinguishes Satan/Gov'ner/Potasi from certain trolls, some of whom are also alts. I may not agree with everything Satan says, but I find his argumentative style to be within the boundaries of rational discourse.
-
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 8:15 AMbut a mask isn't.
=============
How is anyone to be certain you are not a mask?
For all I know you're an unwed teen mother in the midwest with a thesaurus handy. -
-
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 9:41 AM"For all I know you're an unwed teen mother in the midwest with a thesaurus handy."
I have an independently verifiable existence. If you aren't bright enough to figure out how to do that, fuck if I'll tell you. For all I know, you're a glazed donut.
Back to relevant matters, I dont need to harrass people behind an army of bedsheets to get my point across. Alts are great fun for comedy, but it always bothered me to see Gov, et.al. spouting shopworn crypto-reaction over on the politics boards when they could be doing something funny over here. SoT occasionally handles comedy well, but made a tremendous flop as Tribe drama queen. As a political analyst? Who knows? My own experience in practical politics tells me no one trusts the views of a puppet. Why should they?
If he has for-real political insights to share, he should come forward as a citizen (or reasonable facsimilie) and do so. I'll have a serious political discussion with any serious person. This is objectionable? -
-
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 9:52 AMThat's the Spirit!
Alts are driven by HUMANS that are actually thinking. If SoT wants to set up a tribe for troll free discussion, why would you not welcome and alt, who is, on the face of it, a person, and has agreed to the rules of the tribe?
-
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 10:02 AMI hide behind an alt because I do not want to be harassed in meatspace for what I say in cyberspace. I have known of serious cases of this, and have experienced a mild one myself.
Does althood make me a bad person? -
-
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 10:29 AM"I hide behind an alt because I do not want to be harassed in meatspace for what I say in cyberspace."
I'm sympathetic, Jimi. I've had stalkers/harassers in meatspace myself! The criminal justice system deals VERY harshly with these people and it should. I urge you set the machinery of the Law into motion, then listen to the miscreant's bones crunch. It's a VERY enjoyable experience and an instructive excercise in brute karma. Why give some weak little punkass the satisfaction of making you be less than you are?
Perhaps I'm being harsh. I can remember having more than one interesting political exchange for an alt and masks can be found at parties as well as hanging in closet singed from the weekly cross-burning.
"If SoT wants to set up a tribe for troll free discussion, why would you not welcome and alt, who is, on the face of it, a person, and has agreed to the rules of the tribe?"
I didn't say I didn't welcome it! The idea of some sort of mostly-alt version of "The McLaughlin Group" is enchanting! We'll see... -
-
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 12:07 PMAn actual person is entitled to express political beliefs (even radical ones you find distasteful), but a mask isn't.
=====================================
That kinda sounded like you didn't welcome it.
Sorry if I misunderstood you. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 12:32 PMMy mistake, Goof. I was using a blunt instrument to make a fine distinction.
The IDEA (if that's how I'm divining the ex-Lord of the Flies' intent) is nicely comic. The PRACTICE of trolling discussion groups with alts and expecting something other than Your Weekly Cavalcade of Ill Will is a bit disingenuous.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 8:33 AMI admit to being a troll and an alt. Proud of it. What are going to do about it? Huh? -
-
Re: no troll zone
Mon, June 5, 2006 - 5:31 PMAnd I admit to being not only a mod and an alt, but an alt mod! I'm the moderator of a rather large forum (no names--and not this tribe, it's another site entirely), and said moderatorship is under an alt profile. A highly secret profile. Only three people in the WORLD know about this profile. I would say four, but one of them is dead.
I've been doing it for several years now, the alt/mod thing, and only had to edit anything once or twice (other than for spammers posting their penis-pill blurbs--even then, just a couple of times because it's TOU), and have never personally booted anybody. I tend to believe that freedom of speech is not just a pose or a stance, but a way of life, and it is not my responsibility to judge who gets a right to vent, and who doesn't. Friendship is not a considering factor, either. Besides, trolls have their uses.
There is a big difference between someone who may be a troll but has a legitimate point (and a perfect right to make that point), and that person's polar opposite: the unmitigated ass who has no point at all--is just on his own little trip and wants to stir up the shit with a great big stick, hurting people right and left in the process. I don't profess to always know the difference between the two (and sometimes there isn't any difference), not to mention the fact that there is a group of people who do this deliberately just to get booted--so the best thing to do is just let it be. I'm a moderator; I'm not a parent, or God, or an elected official, or even a camp counselor. Really, the only time to step in is when physical violence is genuinely offered or threatened; this is a violation of personal "airspace" and shouldn't be tolerated. Oh, and spam. No spam. It's OK to promote your personal projects and so forth, but there is no free brunch for the widespread spammer. If people want to mass-promote a crappy product for personal gain, let 'em buy an ad somewhere else.
-
-
-
Re: no troll zone
Fri, June 16, 2006 - 1:00 PM>>Sorry if I misunderstood you.<<
That smells like sarcasm to me. Anyone else? -
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: no troll zone
Fri, June 16, 2006 - 8:53 PM*sniff*
Cabbage? Vermouth? Bourbon-soaked cheese log? -
-
Re: no troll zone
Fri, June 16, 2006 - 10:33 PMQuoth Zorak-
Brak, I beg to disagree,
Cheese log is the log for me.
As a meal or as a snack
It's my favorite saturated fat.
Cheese log, cheese log
Cylindrical and yellow.
Cut the cheese log
And I'm a happy fellow! -
-
Re: no troll zone
Mon, February 4, 2008 - 11:56 AMExhibit 52d
-satanwatcher #2 -
-
Re: no troll zone
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 5:34 PMMold-A-Rama Figurine #8: THE SHINY BLACK CROUCHING PANTHER -
-
Re: no troll zone
Sun, February 24, 2008 - 8:06 PMBlack Panthers? I had an act with them back in the day. We'd run around in berets firing honkeys out of cannons. Those were the days.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
