.22LR vs. .22WMR

topic posted Tue, August 28, 2007 - 2:49 PM by  Unsubscribed
Finally a caliber comparisson that makes sense, rather than comparing the 7.62x39 apples to the 5.45x45 oranges...

.22LR vs. .22WMR

everyone agrees that a good auto .22 is a great survival weapon. Deer and open range cattle will run out long before rabbits and squirrels, not to mention it's much more conservative and responsable to kill only what you can eat rather than a large animal that can spoil. .22 LR is great because you can pack a thousand rounds anywhere, it's cheap, and it gets the job done. With proper bullet placement and enough firepower, it gets even bigger jobs done. But what's your take on .22WMR? it's virtually the same weight/packability...but about 40% more power and range. It costs more, and less guns use it than .22 LR. And it does also take up (although not significantly) a larger ammount of weight and space... but there again, it's a better bullet in the same class.

Let's take $$ out of the equation right off. Who wants to really save a buck when their life could depend on it?
Is .22WMR worth it, or not?
posted by:
  • Unsu...
    Honestly, I've never fired a gun that loads .22 WMR so I'm going to just go with .22 LR just out of familiarity. 40% is a significant percentage, but when you translate that into actual numbers, I don't imagine that being a significant enough difference to really make or break a hunt.

    Also, if civilization collapses, there'd be no more urban sprawl to endanger deer, elk, and other larger food sources. Especially when you take into consideration that wolves and all the other major forest predators are dwindling, these larger herbivores really don't have any natural predators other than man. Given those circumstances, I would actually expect deer populations to flourish (at least in some areas). That's a different conversation, though...
    • Unsu...
      Some numbers to chew on:

      .22 Long Rifle
      Bullet weight - 40 gr. / Velocity - 1,082 fps. / Energy - 104 / (Subsonic)
      Bullet weight - 36 gr. / Velocity - 1,328 fps. / Energy - 141 / (High Velocity)

      .22 Magnum
      Bullet weight - 40 gr. / Velocity - 2,020 fps. / Energy - 360

      (taken from
      • Unsu...
        my bad on the 40%...I guess that's from a little handgun, where you can't really reap the full benefit from the extra powder... the numbers I just posted are from a rifle, I'm assuming same barrel lengths for both cartridges.
        • ignoring cost, do you worry about resupply?

          Do you shoot an .22 low noise ammo?
          • Unsu...
            I've tried that low noise stuff.... it's not *that* much quieter... at the cost of only bringing around 30 ft-lbs at the muzzle of knockdown... The reall quiet stuff is that junk that only uses the primer for propellant, with no powder in the casing. I have no idea if you can even measure the energy coming out of there, maybe if it stings a little to catch one in your hand? on the bright side, you can pick up and re-use your bullets.

            But I do see your point, with .22 LR being so much easier to resupply, trade for, or scavenge, it has a good case going in that respect.
            • Unsu...
              What makes you think that it is any easier to resupply .22 than it is any other caliber?
              • Unsu...
                well, the comparison here is stricktly between .22LR and .22WMR... I'm sure there are many calibers out there that are just as easy, if not easier to come across in a survival EOW situation. But between .22 LR and .22 WMR, I would say long-rifle is much more ubiquitous. Seems many people I know, don't even know what WMR really looks like, if that's any indication of your chances of scavenging a box of it in some neglected truck or garage.
    • Get a 22 Mag rifle, ..shoot it, then decide which you prefer..hit the pawnshops..I picked up a Marlin Mag b/a with scope for a 130 buckslast wk to add to my collection of 22 LR's and Magums..I see 22 Mags as filling more "roles"..small,med and if you a real good shot..large game..and if it will take down me it can be classified as a defensive weapon if need be, at least to some extent..I love the 22LR for plinking and squirrel..pretty much game one could take down wih a quality slingshot(which I have one)..super fun..but the Mag is considerably a more serious weapon and altho more expensive to shoot doesnt break the bank least not yet..I buy a box of wmr twice a month just to put back in case of a shtf situation..besides..altho plinking with a LR can and is fun it does get boring after a few thousand rounds
  • Personally I think you should have both. I do. I have both a rifle and pistol in each caliber. If you can only afford to get one - from my personal experience I would recommend carrying the MAGNUM. For a couple good reasons. First off, if you are out in the woods looking for food you may come across rabbits and squirrels..but you may be damn hungry also and come across a deer or small elk or a wild hog or if all you are carrying is the .22 - with the MAG you can kill either deer or rabbit...aim for the head or heart if shooting the deer. (well anything for that matter) Also if you come across a pack of wild indians who wants your squaw...the MAG is a good friend to have...the LR will just piss them off. I would also suggest getting the semi-auto version instead of a pump. Same with the pistol. I have killed a hog with a headshot with the .22 mag pistol. As far as replacements... I would suggest stocking up on ammo and get a reloading station set up in a closet or the can make bullets by metling down metals..and you can make casings or just buy a few thousand extra casings (they are cheap for .22) and powder. If all that fails keep a nice bow and some arrows and learn how to shoot well on deer AND rabbit :)
    • Unsu...
      you killed a boar with .22WMR?

      wow... you have alot more faith in small caliber stopping power than anyone I know. That, or the ability to bore-out the holes in a handfull of tossed cheerios from thirty yards.
      • Well it was a baby hog..I was actually dove hunting by the tank and I heard a pack of hogs come up to the creek behind me. I put my shotgun down and grabbed my pistol and actually crawled on my belly towards the creek. By the time I got there the group of hogs were walking away from me down the path but a straggler baby hog was just arriving at the creek and starting to drink. Crouched behind a tree trunk I took aim and hit her in the head right as she was putting her head down to drink. She drowned and didn't make a sound. I picked her up, gutted her, and went back to dove hunting.

        It's not so much the's where you place it.
        • lots of people poach deer with the 22wmr . you just have to be really close and yeah it might possibly get away . I think your also much more likely to hit something with the 22wmr at longer rangers cuz its trajectory is alot flatter .
    • joe
      offline 1
      I know this is very old, but from this post alone I would disregard anything this poster tells you. 22 LR or Mag are RIMFIRES, hence reloading is not an option and no, they do not sell 22 LR brass. Another "expert who has no clue.
  • Unsu...
    In the State of Michigan when I was a younger fellow .22 WMR was the preferred poacher round. It would kill deer, turkeys, small game and men. It is highly accurate and the noise is less than any centerfire rifle. .22 LR will have a hard time on deer. However it is much cheaper to own and operate. If I could afford to buy 10,000 round of .22 WMR I'd own one. I can afford 10,000 .22LR especially with the deals you can find online. A scoped Ruger 10/22 will make you a lot of meat at 1/3 or better the cost of ammo as a .22WMR.
    • A .22LR will take a deer or boar. It has been the prominent poaching round around here. it just takes a well placed head shot.
      • Unsu...
        Exactly. The new Marlin bolt action .22's are very accurate with that micro groove barrel. I have two of them now. And over 4000 rounds. Michael
  • Every weapon has a purpose and every situation has a pefered weapon
    in the military if your down to a pistol to save your butt Your screwed next is fix bayonet I would take a 22lr rifle over a pistol in this situation
    as pistols are close quarter weapons
    shotguns with 00 buck is great for throwing lead - a 12 pellet buck load each pellet is the about the size of a .22 lead with 6 shots=72 22lr sized rounds faster than you can get them out the rifle
    heckler and koch had a 22 mag semi rifle that was very good for medium game like midwest whitetails and is quieter ammo is pricy and not as common also grendal p30 was a 30 shot 22wmr semi pistol lot of firepower in a small package
    overall a small 22lr seems good as a grab and run gun heading up a mountain with a AK strapped to your back might draw unwanted attention But when the chips are down you want all you can get
    There is no correct anwser to this question I agree finding 22lr is easy they are in the floor of many old trucks quiet and still can get you out of a jam
    • Unsu...
      For me it is a simple numbers game. .22 caliber is my choice of all around survival gun. I dont own a magnum. Hell, stinger hollowpoints blow squirrels all to pieces as it is, why add more power? There are at least two different hyper velocity .22 rimfires that exceed 1700 feet per second but you are not supposed to shoot them out of a semi automaitc rifle or hand gun. 1500 to 1700 feet per second is more than enough speed to get it done at 100 yards on most mid size game. I have 4000 rounds of standard .22 long rifle stored in two military ammo cans. 4 bricks per can with desicates. The bricks cost me 16.95 each. Thats 500 rounds for 17 dollars. Now we are selling off our 9 mm Ruger P-85 pistol and getting a pair of matching semi auto .22 pistols. I have one old marlin glenfield semi auto rifle tube fed and an early Rugar 10/22 with 6 clips 4 of which are 30 rounders. We also just ordered two Marlin bolt action rifles with the new microgroove barrels(very acurate and these will shoot any .22 round built from the tiny little .22 bird shot and subsonic rounds to the 1700 feet per second hyper rounds. These are base of my survival weapons. So I say at 1700 feet per second does going up to 2000 make tah much difference? at the cost level of the rifles,hand guns and ammo? Its a numbers game for me. And .22 lr wins outright.
      • Unsu...
        finally someone puts it all together....numbers and cost....I been looking at the shotguns but ammo would cost me more than the gun just to get half of what I need for storage...yea you can reload em....but I found the cost of that not so great . ...also the carry weight of the shells is not good..Yea I would love to shoot bird right out of the air but...if just too dammed expensive..I'm keeping it simple .22 pinker for me and a primitive bow for my needs traps, nets, and line....If I get into a gun battle I simply don't have the skills and a gun nut would simply sniper me out anyway .....I don't see outright power combat as my strength...I'm more about stealth and trickery as well as knowing when to stick around and when to turn tail and save your skin. Maybe stick a bayonet on it.
        • Unsu...
          The Aguila .22 long rifle is listed as the fastes .22 rimfire in the world. 30 grain bullet copper jacketed lead/ 1750 feet per second with 204 ft pounds . CCI stingers are around 1500 as well. There are some real good .22 cartridges out there. I have 4000 rounds of plain jane lead 40 grain Winchester wildcat long rifle. Now I want another 1000 rounds of special .22 stuff.

          The little shorts and sub sonics which are so quiet they sound like pellet gun. Almost silent. I would not have thought they would be good for game until I had it proved to me. I watched my ex boss kill a 20 lb racoon with one bullet between the eyes . The little sub sonic knocked him right out the tree. I want several hundred of each of those and plan on ordering 500 of the Aguilas. All that .22 ammo stores in a couple small 30 cal ammo cans. If I had to pick one rifle it would be the new Marlin bolt action tube fed(17 long rifle cartridges in the tube) This rifle is very acurate out to 100 yards. Scoped it is a head shot on squirrels and rabbits type of gun. Sells for 180.00 in Black all weather composite stock. For the survivalist this is the best gun out there in my book.

          Now I use my .22 rifles and soon handguns as the base of my mini armory. All able to shoot the same ammo. But there is a need for bigger rifles and certainly Shotguns but they should be used sparingly. I plan on stocking 500 rounds for our 30-06's . I still have not decided on the right Shotguns.
          • Unsu...
            Thanks for the info...your backyard look sweat! The shot gun ....hell I buy one just for the sound,....i wonder if there are any placebo shot guns ... Cha ! ChRank!.....Ping! (shell hitting the floor) ......and then I could yell some crazy shit .....Id pay 50 bucks for that type of madness.....but I aint going to buy shotgun ammo....I'm still working on a ton of other items and I need to be careful what I drop my money on.
  • More velocity means cleaner kills. More humane.
    • Unsu...
      In some cases this is true. But using a 1700 fps bullet on a squirrel is a waste. It blows them up and there is not much left to eat. I prefer the subsonics for small game as the bullet stops in the body and that stopping knocks them out of the tree. Faster bullets just go right through or blow them up. On larger game, yes faster is better.
  • I own 3 22 magnums as well as several 22lrs I use the 22 magnum about 10 times as much as the 22 for real hunting. I grew up on a reservation with few or no game laws. I spent my youth running around the country hunting, fishing and in general with a gun in hand. The 22 was first, but then I graduated to a 22 magnum. Wow what a diffrence, now deer size game was on the menu. It will with carefull shot placement kill deer very well. I have split skulls on small bucks at 80-100 yards. The most versitle 22 mag is my IZH 22mag over 410 bore shotgun. It gives me a simple robust rifle with the ability to wing shoot to 25 yrds or so. The sights are crude and remind one of the sights found on a mosin nagant. ( I own two of these) They work well to approximately 150 yards on rabbits and other small game. The 410 will take ducks, geese and phesant size birds with a carefull sneak. After all we are talking survival here and not fighting off hoards of zombies. I live where there is an abundance of large game and cattle as well as horses. Horse meat is not bad. The small game also inhabit all these areas. The 22 magnum is my choice over the 22lr.
  • I had a friend who had a skunk infestation at his farm. They took up residence under his porch and had no fear of anything. I recommended he buy a 22 mag as its higher velocity might give cleaner kills.

    I've heard of folks using the 22 mag for tree'd cougars. (Not that I'd use it for that.)

    Me, I'd rather have the 22 mag if I could only have one of the two. Maybe a handgun on the hip could be the 22 lr. (Also, some 22 lr ammo boasts velocity approacing that of the 22 mag, though I don't remember the bullet weight.)

    My 2 cents.
    • the 22.mag is a far better round than the .22LR . both cals if i had to use just one it would be the mag
      • Unsu...
        Not me , .22 rimfire . Magnums are over kill and much more expensive. In My opinion the .22 magnum is a worthless cartridge. . It is in between the .22 Lr which is undeniably the best survival round there is and a real rifle like 30-06 . CCI stingers are almost as fast as a .22 magnum . I can kill deer with that round with one shot. But why have a medium round like a .22 magnum? Its expensive , and there are much better choices for medium range cartridges. We have .22 LR, 20 GUAGE AND 30/06 That covers every aspect of defense ,hunting and survival. Face it, a brick of 500 .22 LR for 12.95 cant beat that . Michael
        • "Face it, a brick of 500 .22 LR for 12.95 cant beat that"

          Unless you can't lay your hands on them (of course I've pretty much given up hope on finding 150g 30-06 rounds easily). For several months now Wally World here has been completely out (I can and do go other places). I can get as much #7 12 gauge as I can stuff in a cart for the most part but even the smaller boxes of .22 LR are few and far between. Normally I pick up a brick or two each time I drop in for things. I figure that a box or two at a time doesn't set me back too much money wise (it's a few candy bars I could otherwise stand not to eat anyway) and it adds up over time. But man this ammo shortage thing is a killer. I have on occasion found the big boxes of "loose" (basically just dumped in the box) ammo but while it's cheap I don't like the awkward jumbled up mess that it is. Anyone have any suggestions on how to organize it better without a ton of expense?
        • yea, I have to agree

          I shot a 22 mag revolver once, with a 4 inch barrel. It really bothered my right eardrum for a few hours.

          Yup, a lot of 22 lr's will almost equal the mag in velocity. And, one cannot shoot either in the same gun. You get stuck with one cartridge, only, as the LR cannot be fired in the mag, and vice versa.
  • Nik
    offline 9
    hell yes!!! my marlin was dead on accurate moreso than cheapo lr rounds....and the stopping power was quite sufficient for game(not i did take down a deer with it before but i dont reccomend it unless you are certain of your marksmanship..we dont want a perferated animal wandering around leakin all over! nuff said.
  • I choose the .22 LR for several reasons. There is a wider circulation of ammunition and firearms. Ammunition is much cheaper. If all you are worried about is better performance, get a centerfire and leave my rimfire alone. Right now, it is still possible to stockpile a couple thousand LR rounds before Henry Kissinger's rich goon friends put a stop to it. * search "the bilderberg group"!!!!!!!!!!!! I purchased a ruger 10/22 (LR) from an old timer who killed 7 deer with it. I purchased a marlin model 39 (.22LR) and one day while squirrel hunting, a 120 lb. cougar appeared over me in a pine tree. 3 shots behind the ear dropped the cat. The cool thing about the 39 is that you can shoot either LR or shorts out of it (good for grouse and more neighbor friendly). Shot placement is more important than what caliber you are shooting in many cases, but you won't catch me trying it on a brown bear. The .22WMR will give you better performance, but it is less economical, less circulated, and louder.
    • Jon
      offline 0
      I have guns in both 22 lr& 22 wmr but now only
      use 22 lr sub sonic with a sound mod . With the sound mod on
      the sub sonic 22 lr is so silent the loudest sound is the bullet strike and I can
      shoot several rabbits out of a groop befor they know what is happning
      . For me this makes 22 lr sub sonic( as long as you have a sound mod) far moor practical for a survivle situation when I
      might need to keepI a low profile.

      Has anybody ever considered a air rifle at about 30 ftlb mv as a servivel
      tool ? I live in the uk and air guns are very popular as our gun law is very strict
      the standard 12 ftlb guns are so undre power they will only kill small birds like
      pigeons and only to about 45 yards but the 30 ft lb rifles are goog for
      small game up to about 60 yards . This may not sound to great but bare in mind
      500 pellets cost aroud £6 ( 10 dollars ) you could fit 1000 in a coffee cup and could
      easily make them from old led if need be and air never runs out .
      • WMR all the way. its not all that expensive and you can still shoot .22 lr from it. not recomended, but very possible.
        Just remember, while not recomended and not a good idea in our "perfect world" you can still easly shoot .22lr from a .22wmr barrel with
        no real problems. yes the brass will probably split and you may need to use a knife to pry the shell out of the gun, but it will shoot it.
        so in a survival situation, i would take a .22 wmr, shoot all my .22wmr ammo first and then move onto the .22lr. It would not be pretty
        when i ran out of wmr, but i would be eating.
      • jon is right.
        the right air gun is perfect. some can even take a deer, ive seen it on youtube.
        you could potentially melt down any bullet you found to make .17 or .22 pellets.
        good thinking jon. no powder, silent, awesome.
  • Unsu...
    .22 anything is a worthless survival firearm. What can you kill beyond squirrels and bottles and who wants to eat a bottle. Now a .38 revolver, there is a fine survival firearm. Kill a skunk, a human, or a bear with a .38. PuhCHerrruuuuiiii!
    • Sir, are you aware that the military uses .22 cal survival rifles (similar to an AR-7) in survival kits on certain aircraft?

      A .22 is not the PERFECT survival weapon but it is anything but worthless. I would take my AR-7 survival rifle against your .38 revolver and you would not get close enough to use it. (No brag just fact - I trained snipers in the USMC) One can't snipe with a .22 at 1200 yards like you can with the m40a3 but one can snipe at 100 years with it. 100 yards with a .38 revolver is a VERY difficlut shot. 100 years with my .22 rifle at a man sized target is in the bag. It may not be a one shot - one kill but you would end up just as dead.

  • Unsu...
    I have had time with both weapons and the .22 lr has proved to be the one that I have used most. The WMR has a slightly better range(40m extra) but is noisier and more expensive on ammo, However it is much Cheaper to buy a second hand WMR rifle than it is to buy a .22 LR in the uk (my marlin was nearly brand new at £100 while my 2007 cz varmint was £320) Also my maximum amount of ammo for the .22WMR is only 250 rounds per purchase (Again there is stupid UK gun law)
    recap:.22LR 75 at meters will kill a rabbit with ease.
    .22WMR at 150-200 meters will kill a fox with ease.
    Accuracy: It is up to the individual to zero their sight to the range at wich they intend to shoot, then they hit what they aim at no matter what the caliber gun they use.
  • 22 mag has 350 ft lbs from a rifle, standard .l22lr ammo has 120 ft lbs. so the 22 mag has 3x the power, not 40% more. however, the M4 has 900 ft lbs, is a GI rifle, caliber, parts, mags, has 2x the range of the 22 mag, much more penetration and power, and offers a .22lr conversion unit, for $150, that swaps calibers in 20 seconds, weighs but 3/4 lbs, groups 2" at 50 yds, Point of impact of 22lr unit is within 2" of 223 at 50 yds, and the M4 breaks down and conceals in a pack or gymbag in 5 seconds, assembles, ready to fire in 10 seconds. That's as fast as most people can speed load a revolver (when under some stress). There's easily 50x as much .22lr and 223 ammo around as 22 mag, and the .22 is much less noisythan the .22 mag, especially with CB caps or the subsonic .22lr ammo. The .22 unit in the AR "soaks up" some of the .22's noise, in the 223 gas tube, too.

    A 223 softpoint, like the Nosler Partition 60 gr deep penetrator load, is many times better on deer chest hits or men than 223 miliary "ball" or the 22 mag hp. the .22lr, tho, can BRAIN deer, dogs, men, livestock to 50 yds, and drop them like a rock. 9mmm pistols can have 350 ft lbs of power, using the right ammo, and are not noted manstoppers. So why would a .22 mag rifle be a manstopper, hmm? :-) 9mm is more than 2x the frontal area of the .22, you know. good hp choices in 9mm, like the CorBon 100 gr load, DO expand reliably in flesh, too. that can make them .65" or larger in diameter, and the .22 will be at most .40" in diameter, fully expanded. the .22 mag does not come with a threaded muzzle and there are no subsonic 22 mag loads. check out Aquila's 60 gr .22 lr subsonic load. it's intended for use in silenced rifles. It's loade in .22 Short cases, so that it feeds from .22lr mags.
    • Unsu...
      check this out. 30 yards, cheap Remington thunderbolt 40 grain lead bullet. I shot this deer with my cross bow all legal and such. Then after I got her home I used her head for test on the .22 long rifle round. The results were very good. The reason my test was at 30 yards was that would be a long shot for a bow hunting set. What the test proves is that a .22 will goo right through a deers skull and blow its brains out.

      entrance wound


      exit after I inserted my finger

      As you all can see I placed the shot right behind her eye and the bullet exited her head making a 3/4 inch hole. There were brains and bone fragments all over under the skin. The bullet didnt go through the skin after blowing out the skull. I recovered the bullet. Here it is. Mushroomed to 36 caliber.

      Now I am sure using a 1400 fps Velocitor 40 grain hollow point at the same range Im going to really scramble some brains. Michael
      • Unsu...
        We have tree .22 rifles. One old Remington nylon model 66. one 1986 Ruger 10-22 and a new Marlin 981T bolt gun. THE Marlin is a tack driver out to 100 yards. The best thing about it is that it shoots any .22 round. shorts, longs, long rifles, sub sonics and my favorite the CCI CB LONGS. anything from little birds to Deer. In Michigan it is the BEST survival rifle hands down. Not best battle rifle just best survival rifle.
        • Great pictures! I love my .22lr's, and my .22mag!
          • Unsu...

            I am Kingfish at Survival boards. This thread is the best I have seen on any survival board regarding the penetration and effectiveness of the .22 rim fire. There are many links on that thread and my complete picture lineup on how we did the test. Other guys did water jugs, Beef roasts, boards etc. All tests were to determine penetration of different rounds at different speeds. We learned a lot in one year with that thread. It taught me that a .22 (IN MICHIGAN) IS all I need to harvest any game in the lower peninsula except for the Gaylord Elk herd.. Even then if the Elk was small and I could put close range head shot on one? I am sure a CCI Mini Mag would go through one side of an Elks Skull and into the brain. However there are no elk where I am at. This deer head test proved to me that from a tree stand at 40 yards and under using my Marlin 981T bolt action (which at that range will group in a dime size circle) will drop deer easy and any other small game. I have a Redfield Revolution scope on this rifle. It is my main survival rifle for getting game.
      • joe
        offline 1
        You will not get any where near the penetration with that hyper velocity HP as you will a lower speed solid projectile. Just basic physics man.
        I have killed man hogs with the lowly 22 on the farm a 22 pistol was the gun of choice fordroppingg a cow for slaughterEveryonenee talsmackmak about the little 22 but nobody lines up to get shot with one.
        • Unsu...
          There is truth to what you said. The hyper stuff shot from a hand gun is slower and actually gets more penetration then the slower solids. Go to that link I posted and check the cci stinger from 2.5 inch hand gun. Only 850 feet per second. It out penetrated any other round (out of that gun) Out of a rifle it explodes at close range and like you say, doesn't penetrate well. BUT and this is important. At 100 yards the hyper velocity rounds have slowed enough to match any solid in penetration but get more expansion. This is why Poachers use the stinger hollow point on deer. The tests are all conclusive in that thread. There is such a wide range of different rounds that a guy can make an accurate .22 deadly out to about 150 yards. Look at the end of the thread and watch a hyper CCI VELOCITOR at 300 yards go through 8 layers of denim and a 5 inch beef roast. The same test was performed on a 40 grain standard velocity and it did not go all the way through at 300 yards. What we proved was the faster rounds did better at 100 yards and out and the slower solids did best inside of 100 yards. Hypers were best out of pistols at close range. Its all in that thread.

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