OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

topic posted Sun, August 30, 2009 - 8:15 AM by  Heroness
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and WHAT IS OUR GAME PLAN?

my first suggestion is..WE ...CALL OUR SENATORS>>AND REP's and demand they do not sign this bill without single payer..

which I HAVE ALREADY DONE>>>

any other suggestions..I AM OPEN AND READY

we have been blahblahin for years about this..now is time.. OCTOBER IS ALMOST HERE!
posted by:
Heroness
Boston
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  • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

    Sun, August 30, 2009 - 12:01 PM
    <OCTOBER IS ALMOST HERE! >

    Don't vote for any representative or Senator who does not support the single payer option. Vote for a third party. Organize for a Democrat who does. Let your rep know that his job is on the line if he does not support the single payer option.

    And then follow through.
    • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

      Sun, August 30, 2009 - 12:39 PM
      Organize to drown out the opposition. If the corporate shills can make an appearance of angry citizens against "government healthcare" surely real people can make our case more loudly (and with more artistic signs).
      • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

        Sun, August 30, 2009 - 1:05 PM
        <Organize to drown out the opposition. If the corporate shills can make an appearance of angry citizens against "government healthcare" surely real people can make our case more loudly (and with more artistic signs).>

        It's going to be a little more difficult than that. The corporations have some pretty damned smart psychologists on their payrolls whose only job is to see what buzzwords will make the public react the way they want. These same psychologists will also hold focus groups and create on-line surveys to see what arguments will create the most adverse emotional reactions against the causes they are working against.

        Then there is the true believer syndrome. People who work for the Insurance industry are true believers. If they were not true believers they would be unemployed. That makes them true believers with a purpose. This is not simply a matter of making noise. Anybody can make noise and simply be dismissed as cranks. We have to make noises that will counteract the psychological warfare being waged by the public relations firms.
        • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

          Sun, August 30, 2009 - 1:39 PM
          "We have to make noises that will counteract the psychological warfare being waged by the public relations firms."

          Exactly. We who truly need the changes we are demanding should be the truest believers of all.
          • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

            Sun, August 30, 2009 - 2:39 PM
            <Exactly. We who truly need the changes we are demanding should be the truest believers of all. >

            It's like the old joke that says I know and you know, but what about them? The fact is that it is very easy to lead public opinion by focusing on key factors. For instance, the public relations firms that were hired by the anti-abortion churches during the seventies were able to turn Jewish voters against abortion through untrue claims of government sponsored genocide. That particularly vicious lie took over twenty years to debunk. Another factor that public relations firms exploit is ignorance. Most people simply do not question the world around them. They are too busy trying to survive in a hostile nation. So when a PR firm fabricates a lie that speaks directly to their fears, people tend to react emotionally to the lie than research for themselves. One of the lies the religious right used to ban same-sex marriages in California was the untrue claim that all churches would be required to perform same-sex marriages in defiance of church and state. This was of course untrue. All you needed to do is check with the Universal Life Church website to discover that any minister can refuse to perform any wedding, for any reason. So people who actually favored same sex marriage voted against it on false constitutional grounds.

            So the answer is not as easy as you would like to think.
            • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

              Sun, August 30, 2009 - 3:58 PM
              I didn't say it would be easy. It does seem, though, easier than the alternative: letting the oligarchy call all the shots.
              • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                Sun, August 30, 2009 - 5:37 PM
                <I didn't say it would be easy. It does seem, though, easier than the alternative: letting the oligarchy call all the shots. >

                Just because it is difficult does not mean it is impossible. I think it would behoove us not to try to answer the lies as much as it would help to expose the liars.
                • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                  Sun, August 30, 2009 - 7:29 PM
                  Where are the modern day protest singers/organizers?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                    Mon, August 31, 2009 - 12:34 PM
                    <Where are the modern day protest singers/organizers?>

                    Organizing for the anti-healthcare crowd. The right have co opted all the protest and organization techniques from the left. Even Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book" has become one of the bibles of right wing organization. This is the problem with having a left that has not realized that we are supposed to go forward instead of backwards. We should have been working towards universal health care back in the seventies instead of worrying about what the founding father's wanted. We should have closed ranks and protected our unions instead of cheering when Reagan busted them. Now there is nobody to speak for us, the right is organizing rings around us, and this is the second time in twenty years that a neocon Democrat won the presidency.

                    We have a lot of catching up to do.
                    • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                      Tue, September 1, 2009 - 1:11 PM
                      So when a PR firm fabricates a lie that speaks directly to their fears,

                      this is the whole problem..


                      they know how to push those terror buttons..

                      that is why..frig the people..at this point..I think our direction needs to go directly to the people that are voting..

                      ie ..the reps and senators

                      that is one of the problem with the town hall meetings..I think..

                      if the reps..calmed the fears..explained the good ..to the citizens..rather than palinizing the crowds..

                      bringing out hate and fear.. that is the problem to me..

                      now how to reach those folks..is beyond me..because then numbskulls..from what I can see no matter what you say to them.
                      they would rather give their money to the the insurance and drug cartel..

                      than..think they may be helping..some person who is in need..

                      they have muddied the socialized word..for many years.

                      look what MaCCarthy...did..stirred up the hate and fear machine

                      the word ..communist and socialist have been intemingled for many years.

                      all to create fear..

                      it is totally amazing..that it is easier to bring a country to war..than..give them..healthcare!

                      so I say..we all have to keep the pressure on your reps and senators..

                      we just lost a driving force..Teddy..but..BILL..is still around and he is driven also to push this forward..since him and Hilly..lost it..last time.

                      and..OBAMA...has to stop playing nice guy..its time for war..

                      • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                        Tue, September 1, 2009 - 2:21 PM
                        <we just lost a driving force..Teddy..but..BILL..is still around and he is driven also to push this forward..since him and Hilly..lost it..last time. >

                        Sorry, but Kennedy was simply another driving force for welfare for the HMOs. The health care bill being discussed is going to create more problems than it is going to solve. It is not going to do anything to bring down costs or the price of medication. My suggestion is to take a look at how Kennedy, Obama, and Clinton voted on these issues.

                        www.votesmart.org/

                        The biggest obstacle against health care reform are voters who believe what their politicians tell them rather than check how they voted. I never listen to politicians. I simply check Project Vote Smart and before there was Project Vote Smart, there was the Congressional Record. This was how I knew that Obama was a liar two years before the election. This is how I know that Nancy Pelosi is a closet neocon, and that Kennedy was a true friend to the insurance companies.

                        Project Vote Smart. Our number one weapon in the fight for health care.
                        • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                          Thu, September 3, 2009 - 10:36 AM
                          Bill I knew..Obama's Healthcare policy and Hilli's too..was not the plan we need..before we voted..

                          what his objectives were ..were on his website..

                          but i feel we have to deal with reality here..

                          and we have to work with the system we have..

                          and push the guys that are in there..

                          I know you want a whole government overthrow.. that is not reality..

                          and yep..wouldn't be surprised if kennedy wanted hmo's..cause that is the system we have in massachusetts ..right now..

                          but still ...Ted's dream was for us to have healthcare...and i know he wanted single payer too..

                          its the only way ..its going to work..longterm..

                          but i do think it is a process..especially the way the country is..

                          look what happened to the civil rights movement..

                          McCarthy..

                          gay rights.. ..woman's rights..

                          there is always the ugly right..

                          and they always demonize the people who want ..the peoples rights..

                          we're socialists..we're liberals..we're communists..etc..

                          I just watched a great show on Pbs..on what happened to the writers..during McCarthy time..
                          catch it if you can.. www.pbs.org/wnet/america...-trumbo/1165/

                          it was specifically about Dalton Trumbo.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton_Trumbo

                          but it really told the story of what happened..very well..

                          and so much reflection to exactly what is going on right now

                          different ..time.. different subject..but same game

                          ps..and thanx for that website
                          • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                            Thu, September 3, 2009 - 3:28 PM
                            One of the most profound statements I ever heard was from my favorite professor, Dr. Stephen E. Bronner of Rutger's University. Dr. Bronner stated that the reason that the 60s failed was that we were not Utopian enough. We were too ready to accept what the government is willing to offer us and call it reality. Steve should have known. He was a member of the SDS and watched the movement morph into the ultra reactionary libertarian movement that we are dealing with today.

                            As an example, Steve Bronner used the German Socialist Party, which was too eager to compromise with its adversaries to the point of putting Von Hindenburg in as the head of the military. The German socialist government morphed into the Wiemar Republic, which then morphed into the Nazi government.

                            More than twenty years after Dr. Bronner's lecture, we have watched the Reagan years morph into the neocon movement, which destroyed our social safety net and like all reactionary movements, created the economic disaster we are living through today. It is time to remember that our elected officials are here to do what we say and not to tell us what bones they are willing to toss to us. It is time to remember the mistakes of the past and not repeat them. The Germans accepted what their government was willing to give them and they got Hitler. We accepted what our government was willing to give us, and we got Bush.

                            And I think that Obama promises to be worse.

                            Don't listen to what they say. Check for what they do.

                            www.votesmart.org/
                            • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                              Fri, September 4, 2009 - 11:00 AM
                              www.theocracywatch.org/rr_economics.htm
                              Economics from the Religious Right
                              • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                                Sun, September 6, 2009 - 5:48 AM
                                OH God~

                                well...I always knew they were totally nuts..

                                but to me..they are very scary too...

                                a woman came into my store this week..and we had a nice chat about our health..both have fibro..so its nice to have another to talk with..

                                but than..I handed her a magazine a friend of mine..is the editor.. its called.Spirit of CHange.. its a healthy living ..magazine

                                www.spiritofchange.org

                                anyhow..soon as she saw that..she had to tell me she was a very dedicated christian.. well right there and than..there was huge different energy put in the air between us.. for some reason.. she saw..holistic as ..PAGAN..WITCH hmm what ever the frig her interepretation was..

                                and my interpretation of her reaction was.. well that took care of the bonding we were doing..because ..I AM TOO VERY PREJUDICE AGAINST THESE..people that have to..inform me of their..CHRISTIAN religion..than I noted she had 3 crosses hanging around her neck on her chain... guess 3 is the magic..hmm ..number eh~

                                so..ALL I could think of..which of course i didn't go down this slippery slope was...ok..now that you have informed me of your ..CHRISTIANITY..where is your stand..on ..a womans right to vote..your stand on having us a black president..your stand on ..going to war and creating the devastation in Iraq..all the while..probably not in agreement with abortion..but its ok to kill other peoples kids.. on and on..

                                I have very little patience for these right wing..religious lunatics~
                                • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                                  Sun, September 6, 2009 - 11:03 AM
                                  What's with the three crosses? You do it right, it only takes one. Those Romans didn't fool around!
                                  • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                                    Mon, September 14, 2009 - 9:01 PM
                                    The message is simple and to the point:

                                    I want the same heathcare that I pay for that my Senator has, that my Congress person has, that my postal worker has, that my policeman has, that my fireman has. Single payer is the only way to go. If this bill doesn't pass, I can only point the finger at one person..............me.

                                    I can't remember who said it - "Never doubt that one person cannot make a difference. In deed, it is the only thing that ever has." Or something like that.

                                    It starts with us.
                                    • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                                      Mon, September 14, 2009 - 9:47 PM
                                      Okay, I actually have a suggestion that I hope will be of use. The problem seems to be, as Bill has pointed out, that the right have skilled psychologists and semanticists to produce the words that will stick in the public mind and limit the debate to terms favorable to their partisan interests. They have already managed to sway enough minds to the conviction that the Obama administration wants "socialized medicine" and that this will wreck our health care--as though it weren't already ruined by the insurance industry. We need a "slogan" to turn the tide toward a demand for health care that actually works. I suggest, that criticism of the single-payer option as "socialized medicine" should be answered by saying, "Not socialized medicine, but how about civilized medicine?"

                                      This leaves open a discussion of what "civilized medicine" might accomplish to the end that any sane person can see that what has been in place is broken and that urgent action is needed to fix it, that a simple "more of the same" approach is not rational and will not work. Then we can start talking about what would be the civilized way to provide health care.

                                      With love under will,

                                      Bob, Adastra,
                                      The Wizzard of Jacksonville
                                      • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                                        Tue, September 15, 2009 - 11:21 AM
                                        <"socialized medicine" and that this will wreck our health care--as though it weren't already ruined by the insurance industry. We need a "slogan" to turn the tide toward a demand for health care that actually works. I suggest, that criticism of the single-payer option as "socialized medicine" should be answered by saying, "Not socialized medicine, but how about civilized medicine?">

                                        Bob, you are a slick man with a phrase. Civilized medicine is right up there with Christianoid, and if you don't mind I would like to adopt it in every day discourse on and off line.

                                        However, the slogan is only half the job. An education series in pictures and memes is needed to make the phrase come alive. Let me get out my windows movie maker and I'll give you some idea of what I mean.
                                        • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                                          Thu, September 17, 2009 - 9:27 AM
                                          We need a theme song. Easy to remember lyrics, catchy music, keeps the crowd energized and sends a clear message.
                                          • Re: OK FOLKS>>THIS IS WAR...

                                            Thu, September 17, 2009 - 9:42 AM
                                            Brainstorming:

                                            We need a theme song, easy to remember on point lyrics, catch tune, keep the protestors energized and make our point clearly.

                                            Teach-ins at local gathering places, outside of Congressional Reps. local offices, outside insurance company offices -- medical professionals and people who have been denied coverage speeches, seminar style and lectures.

                                            Sick-ins -- again in public areas, outside Reps and Ins. Co. offices
                                            medical pros set up mini-clinics where people w/o insurance can get consultations

                                            Street Theater

                                            Impromptu rallies with really impressive artistically rendered signs, singing our theme song(s), shouting slogans, open mike

                                            Letter/postcard flooding campaigns to elected reps, government healthcare officials, insurance lobbyists, President Obama, news media, most especially groups organized to oppose healthcare reform

                                            Also call-in campaigns to those people

                                            Bumper stickers, lawn signs, t-shirts

                                            more brainstorming

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