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Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

topic posted Sun, December 31, 2006 - 1:46 PM by  Djinn
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The reason I am curious about this is because a friend of mine is getting a very large tattoo done, and was curious about herbs that would mildy reduce accute sharp pain in the superficial tissues without thinning the blood which would lead to increased bleeing and may ruin the tattoo. White willow bark, and most OTC pain medications are obviously out. Any suggestions?
posted by:
Djinn
California
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  • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

    Mon, January 1, 2007 - 10:31 AM
    motrin and advil, aspirin and even vitamin E are out - but tylenol does not increase bleeding. you could get a complete list from any surgeon's office. particularly dermatologist. I used to assist surgery with a dermatologist, and WOW! could I tell the difference in bleeding when people 'forgot' and didn't follow the *don't take these for 2 weeks before surgery* list.
    Herbs - I don't know for pre-emptive pain relief. I do know that quite a few will increase blood flow.
    • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

      Mon, January 1, 2007 - 11:13 AM
      a set of balls:) no i'm sorry , i'm kiding of corse.:)


      i'm not sure about herbs, but ther are many meditations that help incredibly.

      i personly just put my self into a trance whenever i'm geting a tatoo.
      consintrait on the pain and on visualising exactly what is going on. the needle is piercing less that a milimeter into your skin, an almost inperseptable depth. and the wound s so minor that more often than not the wound seels it's self within moments.
      imagine that the needle is a finger runing along the surface of a block of ice in below 0 temperatures, that althow the ice melts for a moment as the heet of the finger passes over it the water re-freezes before yopur eyes leaving onl a faint trace that was ever ther.

      or some crap like that, just make it up as you go along and remember, pain is just an electrical signal thats travling throo the network of your nerves and to the network of your nerons, it's not real.

      also check with your doctor if you're on any syc meds, some of those can increase nevrve sensitivity , therby reducing the pain threshold.
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        Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

        Mon, January 1, 2007 - 12:14 PM
        Theres nothing you can do. Its going to hurt. But it's really not that bad. Usually hurts at first and then your endorphins kick in for a while and anyone getting tattooed should be fine until those run out and then it starts to hurt more. you should go to www.bmezine.com and research this. There are topical anesthetics that some people use but never here in the US and 99.9% of tattoo artists that are decent will not tattoo you if you use anesthetic. As soon as the tattoo is finished it doesn't hurt anymore anyways. I would also ask the tattoo artist who has experience and not some random people on tribe who have significantly less experience with tattoos.
        • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

          Mon, January 1, 2007 - 3:08 PM
          "a set of balls:) no i'm sorry , i'm kiding of corse.:)"

          This person is getting a massive tattoo, and is getting 8 hours worth of tattooing done in one sitting, and even then it wont be finished. I dont consider this person a coward, since he already made it through 6 hours in his first sitting without any help.
          • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

            Mon, January 1, 2007 - 7:39 PM
            For something like this, a topical is probably the way to go...clove oil is a good one; I used it for toothachey/teething type stuff. Think herbal orajel. You just shmear it on, and it numbs the skin. I'm not sure if this would be contraindicated with a tattoo, but I can't think of any reason that it would be. It definitely won't last through the entire 8 hours of tattooing, so if the endorphins don't carry him through, he may need to reapply.
            • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

              Mon, January 1, 2007 - 8:53 PM
              Isnt clove oil contraindicated for broken skin?
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                Tue, January 2, 2007 - 3:08 AM
                clove oil will have some bad reactions with the ink and with healing the wound. I am assuming. It only makes sense. The best way to heal a wound is to leave it alone. I just really hope that this guy understands that he has to go the eight hours without anesthetic. The pain is part of the tattoo and wouldn't be a tattoo without it. Everyone including myself who has had extensive work done knows that you have to deal with the pain. It's the price you have to pay and since it doesn't hurt once the tattooing stops it's not too horrible.
                • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                  Tue, January 2, 2007 - 6:03 AM
                  ya. i figured it was a sirius tattoo, i was just trying to be funny, make light or a potentialy sirius thing. laffing releases endirfins. :)
                  but i gess it might be a bad idea be laffing a lot wile you wer geting a tattoo. :)

                  i was being sincere about the meditations thow, they can realy help with sharp stabby pain.
                  cancer patients use them, so do all forms of cronic pain suferers, and peaple going throo rehabilitative theripy. they're for real.
                  pain is an electrical impolse , and your thots are made up of large complicated sets of electrical impulses.
                  good luck? and may the gonads be with you. :)
              • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                Wed, January 3, 2007 - 12:24 AM
                Sentience, to my knowledge, clove oil is not contraindicated for broken skin. In addition to it's analgesic properties, clove oil has also been credited with antiseptic and antifungal properties, and has been reliably prescribed for "dry socket" after a root canal, as well as toothaches and teething. I have heard of clove oil irritating the skin on rare occasion, so maybe it would be a good idea to try a little on a different area of skin before going forward with the tattoo. I would think that it would actually be helpful with the healing process, too.

                I am, however, a fan of enjoying the full experience of getting tattooed...that being said, I've never tried to sit through eight straight hours of work.
              • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                Wed, January 3, 2007 - 12:40 AM
                Sentience, to my knowledge, clove oil is not contraindicated for broken skin. From what I understand, clove oil is, in addition to being an analgesic, both an antiseptic and an antifungal. It's commonly prescribed for "dry socket" after a root canal, and tooth aches & teething. I have heard of it causing skin irritation in rare instances (although some folk use it on their winky to prevent premature ejaculation), so maybe it would be a good idea to try it out on a different spot of skin before getting a tattoo...but with the antiseptic properties, I'd think that it would actually help the healing process.

                I would say that I'm glad that I fully experienced all of the sensations when I've gotten my tattoos, but I've also never been under the needle for eight hours straight. I think I'd break that down into smaller blocks, if possible.
  • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

    Wed, January 3, 2007 - 7:21 PM
    I sometimes take Tylenol 8-hour, and eat fresh fruit to keep my blood sugar up before sitting for a tattoo... Good luck to your friend - the piece must be *amazing*!
    • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

      Thu, January 4, 2007 - 8:33 AM
      Im curious about the codeine, because there are other plants that contain mild opiates that I might be able to use, such as wild lettuce. To opiates and their analogues thin blood for the most part?
      • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

        Thu, January 4, 2007 - 8:47 PM
        Hi-
        Looking at Mills/Bone phytotherapy book today; (check it out if you don't have it, it's my favorite herbal resource!)
        white willow = salicylic acid, while aspirin = acetyl-salicyclic acid.
        it is the acetyl group on the ASA molecule that actually interacts with the platelets to decrease platelet aggregation.
        the salicyclic acid doesn't have that group...

        that means that white willow doesn't have the blood thinning effects.
        as it is not an appropriate alternative for the beneficial anticoagulant effects of aspirin, it would likely be ok for pn reduction without increasing bleeding... or acetominophen/tylenol---its unlikely to do too much harm once or twice a year! ;)

        Rebecca Wilhelm ND
        • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

          Thu, January 4, 2007 - 9:27 PM
          Doesn't salicylic acid inhibit the prostoglandins responsible for the platelets sticking together/clotting? I thought the pain and fever reducing properties all came from the prostoglandin inhibition. Is that not so?
          • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

            Thu, January 4, 2007 - 10:12 PM

            oh no! too much biochemistry to think about!!!!

            yes, i'm sure your answer and thoughts are somewhat right....there are lots of prostaglandins and thromboxanes and some are irreversibly inhibited, while others are partially, or not at all, on either aspirin or willow.

            i was hoping to find an answer quickly on www.pubmed.gov, entering in willow salicylic acid, but its more complex than my brain can handle right now!

            if i ever come across more, i'll post it here...

            RW
            • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

              Thu, January 4, 2007 - 11:33 PM
              Ive been under the gun for up to 6 hours myself, and I have to tell you that the endorphins simply do not last that long. Hours 5-6 hurt a whole lot more then the first few.

              The info is for my friend, but I may use it myself for my next session.
              • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                Fri, January 5, 2007 - 9:15 AM
                Last call on whether Codeine thinns the blood. Anybody? Today is the day.

                Most likely we are going to go with Tylenol, though I would be interested in an herbal alternative for my session that is comming up.
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                  Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                  Fri, January 5, 2007 - 9:26 AM
                  ASK THE TATTOO ARTIST
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                    Fri, January 5, 2007 - 9:27 AM
                    ASK THE TATTOO ARTIST
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                      Fri, January 5, 2007 - 9:27 AM
                      ASK THE TATTOO ARTIST
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                        Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                        Fri, January 5, 2007 - 9:35 AM
                        Damn Zeth, beware of the smug man
                        • Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                          Fri, January 5, 2007 - 12:08 PM
                          The reason I am asking is because I could possibly use a mixture of something like prickely poppy or california poppy with a wild lettuce. I also think this is a worthy thing to research for any herbalist in a first aid situation that involves bleeding.

                          Seriously Zeth, have you ever had a 26 hour tattoo? I dont see any in your profile, so I dont get where you come off being so high and mighty about it. Poking a little fun is fair game, but you sound seriously agro.
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: Pain relievers that do not thin blood?

                            Fri, January 5, 2007 - 2:12 PM
                            I have sat for 8 hours being the longest so i know what its like and i know at least 50 people who have sat for over 12 hours. i know what it feels like and it sucks especially the second, third etc.. time around. it gets worse every time until its finished. I am just saying that tattoo artists would be able to help you best because they know what will and wont react with the ink and your healing. no tattoo artist that in know would tattoo anyone who used some sort of anesthetic whether natural or not. Call the tattoo artist and ASK. and i would think that something natural would cause more pain in the long run. if you are getting wipped all the time and sprayed with water and the occasional green soap, i highly doubt that anything will last long enough to dull the pain since it will be washed or bled out during the process and then it has to be reapplied which is going to hurt only for it to be washed out again. i am not trying to be mean i am stating my opinion and think that you should call.

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