Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

topic posted Sat, November 7, 2009 - 5:41 PM by  Linda
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First off let me say that I hope this is taken the way it is intended. It is interesting that when I saw the last thread about "combatting" swine flu, I was startled. I felt scared and worried. Then I read the thread and was relieved that Julie spoke about language and the importance of where we choose to shine the light on a situation. I find using war metaphors in general to be hard on my well being and using them in terms of my health, I find down right disconcerting.

While I do not want to down play the importance of keeping an eye on public health and finding ways to prevent illness, as well as to treat it when necessary, I just do not want to fight anything.

So my strategies in general apply when I think about the swine flu. They are many fold.

First I need to maintain my health (this is an ongoing dance and sometimes I am better at this than others)...human I guess you would say. But the bottom line here is nourish, nourish, nourish. No matter what, one cannot nourish enough. So I maintain my health by eating well, drink nourishing herbal infusions, excercise, getting enough rest and maintaining close connections with those who nourish me. I also wash my hands and during the winter months I increase the number of herbs that I ingest, which nourish my lungs and respiratory system. I also collect information and stay informed.

Secondly, if need be I ingest antiviral and immune boosting herbs. In this realm it is a dance for me, as I do not believe there is one herb that is a cure all for everyone who has a cold or flu. I find that I am usually working with the symptoms and the sense I am getting from the illness. This is true no matter what is happening, I assess the situation and choose from the herbs I have available to me. Of course there are certain herbs that I tincture and have ready to support me if needed. Antivirals are important here of course and elecampane and elder are two of my favorites. I also have poke root tincture and frozen berries on hand. If I had the flu, I would eat a few berries each day (and not chew the seeds, as the berries are edible the seeds are not).

Finally, If I am sick and need support I will ask for it. Before one gets sick, I think it is advisable to find people you trust, that you can turn to for guidance. As when we are really ill, it can be hard to think clearly and make the best decisions. Knowing who that person is ahead of time can be really helpful in assuring you will get the support and guidance that is in your best interest.

Lastly, I do not worry about nor do I fight the flu. What I do is I collect tools (herbal remedies and the knowledge that goes with it are tools. And I collect options. This feels sound to me and is proactive, rather than fear based. The media and the current medical establishment is working from a place of fear and a need to protect a public that is not always willing to take responsibility for their health. So I hope that by taking responsbility and collecting tools, I will not act out of fear, even if the swine flu appears at my door step. I am also happy to act as a tool and support for others.

Again I did not mean to uspurp your post Trish, I just feel that changing our language from a fighting to a nourishing tone is imperative to sustaining health. How do others feel, first about what I am saying and secondly about supporting your immune and respiratory system...what are your tools, what are your options?
Blessings
Linda
posted by:
Linda
Wisconsin
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  • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

    Sun, November 8, 2009 - 7:34 PM
    Thanks for posting this.

    My son got sick on Friday with a bad cough. It turned into lethargy and fever on Saturday. The whole time we kept talking about how he has a healthy body and talked about all the things we can do to support his health during this time. It was really hard because I had the fear based approach coming from my mother, telling me that people die from this and that I need to be giving him OTC medication every couple hours. And she said it in front of him as well, ridiculing me for wanting to keep positive about it and aid in his healilng naturally. So I see what you are saying in finding support before one gets sick. I definatly feel that OTC medication masks the symptoms and brings them back even worse than before.

    For us, his fever reached 102 last night. I have been giving him a elderberry syrup I made. It contains osha root, licorice, mullien (for his cough), astragulus, echinachia in a glycerin and honey base. I also put astragulus in his orange juice and echinacia. Started giving him vitamin D supplements. Vitamin c and elderberry tablets. He woke up this morning with no fever and said that he was better, though still has his cough.

    I don't feel like it was fight at all, more of a supporting of his condition and aiding him in a healthy, speedy recovery. My only fight was to get him to take the syrup and supplements. He would only drink half a cup of tea. In time though, in time....
    • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

      Sun, November 8, 2009 - 8:57 PM
      i find that serving tea in tiny tea cups helps. they can drink it quickly, and two cups of tea generally equals 1/4 c of a regular size cup. the adult dose during acute situations is (give or take) 1/4c every 20 minutes.

      also, i have discovered that lemon and honey (ginger, if warming or stimulation is desired but i am sure lemon balm would be yummy otherwise) tea is really yummy and supporting. it even tastes great with herbal syrup added to it.

      i had read that orange juice is not a good source of vitamin c when you are ill. *and this is a broad statement, everyone is different.
      but this is because, when there is mucus involved -the acidity in oranges excuberate that.... that lemon has the vit. c without the acid of oranges.
      happy healing :)
      • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

        Mon, November 9, 2009 - 2:55 PM
        I responded to this topic under Trish's thread before I saw this one. I also appreciated Julie's response. I remember having a turned-off reaction to a video posted on this tribe involving a woman fighting cancer who was really into the fight aspect and the f-cancer motto. I think the war analogy works for some people and they feel really empowered by it.

        It doesn't feel like something that's useful to me on a personal or societal level. But maybe I haven't been pushed to the limit enough to have to fight that hard.

        And also, as I said in the other thread, I don't see swine flu (or death, really) as an enemy.
        • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

          Tue, November 10, 2009 - 8:48 AM
          "should he go ahead and protect himself"

          Hi Lorraine,
          I am responding to the post you made in another thread as copied below.
          You are so right on, this is a personal decision and I cannot say what I would do in your situation. But I can say that when I read what you wrote above, I thought I am not sure that I believe that the vaccine is necessarily going to provide protection. It is a weighed risk on both accounts. On the one hand a vaccine, might protect your husband on the other hand it might not. Same with herbs. So what I imagine I would do, would be to weigh the risks and benefits of each approach and weigh his actual overall risk for contracting the flu. Also assess your potential ability to treat the flu if he does contract it. Also, is this really an either/or decision, if he decides to receive the vaccine, would it not be helpful to continue to keep his system strong with whole food, fermented food and herbal remedies.

          I suspect there are many factors contributing to people dying from HINI and I am not sure that we can conclusively say what they all are. But some factors may include, weakened immune system to begin with, poor dietery habits, lack of knowledge and tools for incorporating herbal remedies into their treatment, continued exposure to large groups of people and I am sure we can think of others.

          So, I would encourage you to assess this and let us know what you decide. There is no wrong anwser here. I personally am not interested in the vaccine and while I never say never, at this moment I cannot imagine a reason that I would seek vaccination for this. I hope this is helpful in some way and I look forward to hearing from you and others on this topic.

          Blessings
          Linda
          My husband lost his spleen in a bad accident 30 years ago and the doctors have phoned last night to suggest he has 2 lots of the swine flu vaccination. Obviously I am keen to try a more herbal approach, however an 8 year old child died in this area recently from swine flu and was the first who had no other underlying medical condition. It's a difficult one, should he go ahead and protect himself or should I try and build up his immune system with herbs?

          I know it is a personal decision but I would appreciate any feedback on this as soon as possible...

          Blessings

          Lorraine
          • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

            Tue, November 10, 2009 - 9:28 AM
            Hi Linda,

            Many thanks for your response. After consideration he has decided to go ahead and get vaccinated. I support this as I really do not want the responsibility if he gets sick and has relied solely on herbal supplements in diet teas etc. Therefore I will encourage him to take some of the immune system enhancing herbs suggested here and in other threads on your tribe, along with the vaccines. We had a winter vomiting bug here last christmas and when he got it, he passed out and lost his sight for a few minutes, therefore - understandably - he is going to try and protect himself better this year.

            Thank you so much for your response Linda, as always it is very much appreciated.

            Blessings

            Lorraine
            • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

              Wed, November 11, 2009 - 9:16 AM
              Below is an article that I think can add to our decision making process when deciding to get the flu vaccine or not. Hope this contributes as well.
              Blessings
              Linda


              FLU SHOT: Friend or Foe?

              By Lynette Volkers RN BSN

              The timing is impeccable. As the leaves morph into their vibrant fall colors so comes the onslaught of the dreaded flu season. "Get your flu shot here" posters spring up in every corner. The media does its job well. By repeatedly discussing outbreaks and flu-related deaths, the public is motivated by fear. Americans everywhere rush to get the magic flu ‘jab,” victims of media-hype and massive marketing.

              Why do we get flu shots? Supposedly to protect us from fever, body aches and some upper respiratory illness that lasts at the most 3-5 days. However, studies show that the flu shot is not effective. Both information from the FDA and the manufacturer’s package insert indicate that the flu shot should NOT be given to pregnant women; yet they are at the top of the priority list for receiving this fall’s flu shots. Vaccination of healthy adults reduces the risk of contracting influenza by a mere 6 percent. And there is no evidence that injecting children 6 to 24 months of age with a flu shot is any more effective than placebo. Some reports actually suggest you have an increased chance of contacting the flu after you receive the flu shot. In other words, getting the flu shot offers no guarantee you will not become ill.


              Your doctor and the media are not telling you what is coming through that needle. Besides the formula of viruses scientists concoct by an admitted guess, you also get a big dose of problems. Flu shots contain formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, and all multi-dose flu shot vials have thimerosal, (mercury), a controversial ingredient linked to autism. Others ingredients include polysorbate 80, shown to cause infertility in mice; gentamycin, an antibiotic, and Triton X100, a strong detergent.

              It is infuriating that the truth about both H1N1 Swine flu and the seasonal flu is not accurately portrayed in the media. If you spend some time on the Centers for Disease and Prevention (CDC) website, you would find that less than 1,000 people actually die each year from the flu, not the 36,000 deaths robotically reported by the media. One could speculate there is a conspiracy between the government, the drug companies, and the media. This game allows billions of dollars to pour into the deep pockets of Big Pharma while millions of Americans are injured by flu shots incessantly hyped by the fear-mongering press.
              The role of medicine is to treat disease. Anyone who takes time to learn the truth about vaccines will find that vaccinations do not prevent disease but rather they stoke the fires and perpetuate disease, insuring that doctors and pharmaceutical companies have diseases to treat in the future.

              Before you decide to get the flu shot, take responsibility for your health. One of the most important preventions you can do is to get your vitamin D level checked; be sure the level is about 60ng/mL. Do some research on websites that are not sponsored by drug company money. A few I like are listed below. If the flu gets you down this winter, let your body do what it was made to do – heal itself. Stay at home, increase your vitamin C and vitamin D, avoid junk food, get plenty of sleep, cough or sneeze into a tissue, and most importantly, wash your hands.
        • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

          Fri, November 13, 2009 - 5:49 AM
          I find this thread facinating......very facinating. The fight they spoke of was used as a metaphor. Metaphors are usefull when we can relate to them...they are a teaching tool to relate to us in a deeper way...to understand it.Fight for me means a lot. I am a survivor os sexual physical and emotional abuse and i am bipolar and some days it is a fight weith myself to just get out of bed and to take a shower.So....that said.....for me...that term says alot.Interesting .Fight does not mean hurting something or someone else...it represents a struggle formost.Anyway...iteresting thread. thanks for allowing me to share..
          blessings...
          Rainy
          • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

            Fri, November 13, 2009 - 11:46 AM
            I think sometimes people over-react to words used, be it combating, fighting, whatever, Rainy is right - is is either a metaphor or a "doing word" and should be taken as such. This is a most peaceful tribe and nobody should be scared to say the word that is right for them - that would be trying to mould people to your expectations - and that would be wrong, of course. Thank you Rainy, you are right. This is a big language and none of you should be afraid to use it.

            Lorraine
            • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

              Sat, November 14, 2009 - 3:52 PM
              I appreciate all the perspectives, I also appreciate the article you posted, Linda.
              I was sharing with my apprentices, yesterday, many of the plants I ally with.
              We shared stories about many of the uses of plants like wild rose, echinacea, motherwort, dandelion, lomatium etc.
              it was quite a transformational dialog. It was as if the plant began to speak through us.
              I shared the wise woman perspective that there are no diseases, that disease does not exist outside of a person.
              The conversation turned to what a virus really is??
              I am sharing this with all of you because I don't nor think anyone really knows what a virus is.
              I think we fight, combat etc. things because we are told they are bad...but what if a challenge is handed to me
              so that I may grow stronger, learn new perspectives, gain other insights or walk down a different path?
              I am intrigued by how the cold I just had helped me to deepen my awareness of how to take care of myself and how to
              ask for help....and I could be thankful for this....and I believe I am.
              Many blessings, Julie
              • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                Sun, November 15, 2009 - 8:04 AM
                i like your point, julie, about questioning the term virus and if we even have a clue what we're talking about.

                also can relate to feeling that sickness can be helpful. in my case, the last time i got the flu i felt a very dramatic shift in my awareness after my fever broke and onward. although it wasn't all pleasant, i felt the fever had what felt like a very dramatic cleansing effect on my outlook and on my body. i feel colds have a similar effect physically on a smaller scale.

                and keeping in mind that some of you react to the word cleansing and choose not to use it, i respect that but don't share feeling bothered by it. it's the people obsessed with co-opting that word to create fear and make money who bother me.

                • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                  Sun, November 15, 2009 - 8:32 AM
                  Thanks, Megan....I always appreciate your perspective.
                  I am just so curious these days about how to expand my awareness and perspective into living more fully.
                  Peace and well being to all, Julie
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                    Mon, November 16, 2009 - 8:30 AM
                    Hi,
                    I just got this link from Henriette's herb list about the ingredients in flu vaccines.
                    It is good to know this information I think when speaking about vaccines to help others know
                    what they are choosing if they decide to get one. www.novaccine.com/specific-...accine.asp
                    Peace, Julie
                    PS Paul Bergner's website naimh.com
                    • This post was deleted by Linda
                    • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                      Mon, November 16, 2009 - 7:43 PM
                      Greetings all, Thanks for sharing. As for words, they have the capacity to put us under a spell. The word fight, in relation to health has a certain energy that goes along with it. My intent here is to ask us to look at our language and consider whether or not the words we are using are the ones we really want to use to employ. Language is quite important and is followed by behavior that reflects the words we use. I personally am not interested in using the word fight or combat in relation to health. Fighting requires a an energy that is draining and could be used to nourish and nurture. Not sure what would create fear for someone, we can all say what we choose, but the invitation is to think through what we are saying and decide what language we want to use.
                      Blessings
                      Linda
                    • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                      Mon, November 16, 2009 - 7:51 PM
                      Hi Julie,
                      I see you posted a link to Paul Bergners website. I am note really sure why, are you trying to share something in particular?

                      I know that Paul is one of the folks I have seen promoting the need for folks to take vitamin D supplements in order to avoid the flu. Is this the point you were trying to make?

                      I personally am concerned about this persepctive. One thing that confuses me is that people have lived without taking vitamin D supplements and many are quite healthy. When Susun Weed visited last month she spoke about this and her perspective is that as long as you go into the sun for 10-20 minutes between noon and 2, without sunscreen, during the summer you will absorb all the vitamin D needed for the year. I also question the fact that so many people do not eat fats, (the low fat craze) and what do we need to absord vitamin D but fat, it is fat soluable. So partly a tangent, but also wondering Julie if you had a reason for posting his webiste that I missed.
                      Blessings
                      Linda
            • This post was deleted by Linda
            • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

              Mon, November 16, 2009 - 8:15 PM
              Hi Lorraine,
              When I read your post above I thought of a quote I try to keep close to my heart. On my good days I am able to embody this. Hope it contributes in some way.

              "Out beyond ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing there is a field. I’ll meet you there." Rumi

              Blessings
              Linda
              • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                Tue, November 17, 2009 - 5:58 AM
                i want to start by saying i am not a "susun weed / wisewoman" herbalist per se. should i go elsewhere to talk herbs? i understand if there is a stricter intention than i realized. i heard recently an herbalist say "herbs don't cure they support". i really appreciated this perspective.

                the paul bergener link was interesting to me. he gave some stories throughout history - i like that storytelling element.

                what i took in -
                information about small doses of boneset to prevent flu.
                that if there is a flair up on day five that is probably the "cytokine storm" that i have been hearing about
                rest is the key!

                i am finding it helpful to have a vocabulary to communicate with people that are afraid - and giving them something tangible to understand other than the flu vaccines.

                i also like the five branches approach to health and healing-

                first: food
                second: home
                third: exercise
                fourth: herbs
                fifth: acupuncture

                something else - the syrup that was mentioned sounded great - except the astragalus. i do believe the love and intention to make a medicine transforms its potency - so i am certain it is an amazing syrup. but technically - i have heard astragalus for when symptoms are not acute because it is such a deep working/deep chi herb. the same person i heard this from was not a fan of combining goldenseal with echinacea - for the similar reason that echinacea is for surface/acute immunity and goldenseal works on a deeper level? any thoughts?

                (oh, and i hope some of you got in some great wishes on all those shooting stars!)

                peace,
                lisa
                • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                  Tue, November 17, 2009 - 8:26 AM
                  Greetings. First off, no one needs to be a "Susun Weed/wiseoman" Herbalist to be here. While I have studied with Susun, I have also studied with many others. I simply care about nourishment and that is the bottom line. I personally feel strongly about language and am speaking to that for myself as an herbalist who has practiced for over a decade with my own experience. I have not deleted any posts that speak to something different than my persepctive. The only posts I delete are posts that connect to websites that are selling products. I personally have a website that sells products and I do not even mention that here. I also do not try to sell you the classes and programs that I offer across the country. I want to talk about plants and the wisdom that comes along with them. I do not want to pollute our discussions with links to products that are trying to sell something. No matter what when we go down that route the information gets twisted.

                  Below is the description of the this tribe that I hope all would read before you sign up.. Please read it and act accordingly. If you choose to go elsewhere so be it. I hope that folks who share a desire to promote health and focus on nourishment would choose to stick around. I also hope that others appreciate any attempt I make, as human as it might be to create a container to hold dicussions. Even those that do not agree with me, I am simply offering my perspective as a participant. I find it inspiring to challenge mainstream perspectives and even some that appear "alternative". If the style of moderation and tone of this tribe do not resonate with you and you would like to discuss it with me, feel free to send me a PM and we can discuss this further.

                  The herbal wisdom tribe exists as a safe space to focus on promoting health with nourishing herbs, proactive lifestyle changes and compassionate listening. While discussing herbs that treat disease is certainly welcome, a preference for proactive health changes is what I would like to invite us to explore. I intend this to be a place where we can encourage and invite each other to make or maintain that shift.

                  While there are not rules to this tribe, I do request that participants stay focused on the plants and that posts not include links to websites that promote products.

                  Carry on.
                  Blessings
                  Linda
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                    Tue, November 17, 2009 - 11:07 AM
                    Well, sorry for the confusion...it was Paul Bergner I got the link about ingredients in flu vaccines and I wanted people to see who he is if they don't know him....I don't advocate Vitamin D for flu prevention, feel my best prevention is being well nourished...but I do appreciate Paul Bergner as an herbalist. I will be more clear next time I post a link....I saw the link to the ingredients and thought people on this tribe would be interested.

                    I must say, I haven't read any post that has "polluted" my experience of connection with everyone and herbs on this tribe. I know that that is a boundary about posting but I find it to be a most lovely thing to know that people are sharing the way of plants with people and I don't share the perspective that they must be seperate.

                    Green Blessings, Julie
                    • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                      Tue, November 17, 2009 - 11:30 AM
                      Hi Julie,
                      Thanks for hearing me on the confusion, I appreciate the clarification of what you were trying to share. I really was not sure.

                      And while I agree with you Julie, that sharing about plants is a lovely thing (exactly why I sepnd time facilitating this tribe). And I do find it important to seperate business and discussion. It is so easy to slip into product promotion and not stay focused on plant wisdom. One question I have (and you may choose to anwser this or not) but, how do you know it has not affected your experience. I have a set a boundry from the inception of this tribe and there have never been posts about products here. Perhaps, is it possible that the boundry I have set contributes in some way? Hmmm, just a thought.

                      Blessings
                      Linda
              • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                Wed, November 18, 2009 - 1:03 AM
                Good morning Linda,

                Yes, that is about perfect for me - what a lovely quote - thank you!! I will keep it and try and abide by it...

                Blessings

                Lorraine
                • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                  Wed, November 18, 2009 - 6:57 AM
                  zip-

                  thanks for your post. glad you came. what you said about astralagus, etc. made a lot of sense to me. it could deepen an acute condtion because it's a powerful tonic. that's my understanding anyhow, from learning of old traditions (eastern) with this herb. the more i learn about herbs, the more i feel cautious and slow about anything i can't study and taste in my yard. we so easily get seduced by herbs that sound like miracle workers that are taken completely out of context of their traditional or holistic use.

                  i love that there are no ads on this tribe, and i also love that people come with different perspectives and challenge or question what they hear here. it's easy to fall into patterns and forget the assumptions we make.

                  so thanks again for your post.

                  your question about susun weed makes a lot of sense to me because she's mentioned so much here. as for me, i appreciate her voice and vision along with so many other voices in the health community. as with anyone, i take some and leave the rest. we all have our blind spots, and i don't think she's exempt.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    This post was deleted by Linda
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                    Wed, November 18, 2009 - 9:37 AM
                    Greetings. I have a request that folks read over my initial comments on this thread, as i have not mentioned Susun Weed at all. Honestly the influence on my comments about language come more from my decade long work with Marshall Rosenberg and his model of nonviolent communication.

                    While I do mention Susun from time to time, I have developed my own philosohpy that focuses on nourishment. I am constantly amazed at how healing nourishment can be and how often it is unecessary to empoy more dramatic measures. I too take from the many teachers I have had over the years and leave behind what does not resonate with me. But I also respect and honor the teachers I have had and I try to mention them when I see their influence is present. Susun is a powerful teacher and has alot to offer, which is probably why she is mentioned often. If you have teachers that influence you, I hope you will mention them as well. They all deserve this kind of respect!!
                    Blessings
                    Linda
                    • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                      Wed, November 18, 2009 - 11:07 AM
                      astragalus is actually an easy plant to grow - although because it is the root that is harvested - it will take awhile (2-3 years i think) to start growing your own medicine. which i am pretty sure is a short while for a root. the plant seems to do fine in soft freezes, but i don't know about a hard freeze. soil requirements seem minimal.
                      ( i have that feeling of cautious too, but it eases itty bit by bit as the plants get more familiar. sometimes even contradicting what i have read. like I like the spring yellow dock roots as well as the fall roots)

                      i asked - and got an answer that was straight up. the messages were deleted because of a strict no selling boundary. you can agree with susun weed or not and still have a voice here. great.

                      i have my own opinions in accord with all food being our medicine, strengthening the body as treatment, starting gentle, trusting the bodies own ability to heal, and using voice to put out intention with care.

                      Linda - you are more involved than most moderators of the tribes i have been in. that said - i am really enjoying what you say and do. i am finding the discussions in this group very insightful. I especially love how often you and other people contribute direct experience. YEAH DIRECT EXPERIENCE. i want to be clear - THANK YOU.

                      any thoughts on echinacea and goldenseal together?

                      peace,
                      lisa
                      • Re: Maintaining Health and dealing with swine flu

                        Wed, November 18, 2009 - 12:20 PM
                        Hi Lisa,
                        Glad you asked the questions you did and received the clarity you needed. As for your question about Goldenseal and Echinacea, I am wondering if you would be willing to start a new thread on that topic, it might be a long one as well and this thread is getting quite long as it is.
                        Blessings
                        Linda

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