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last monday we had to sit in a patch of poison ivy, i bathed the girls with vinegar and milk, but days and days later she has spots. we treated those with a jewel weed poultice and they seemed to dry up and not bother her.
but then she has a uti, complaining of burning, having to pee and not being able to, stinky pee.....
i do not have any uva ursi on hand, i have been using yarrow, burdock, and echinacea...... along with diet and cranberry juice (real, no sugar added, though it is mixed with apple so it is palatable to her) and then teas of mallow.......
i am afraid the burdock is bringing out the poison, because since we have started it she has had a 'break out'.......
i am off to the woods to gather more jewel weed, but i would love some suggestions.
i do have cleavers, yarrow, echinacea, usnea, and mallow......should i use dandelion in place of the burdock or continue the burdock to 'clean' her blood of the poison....but ohh, the suffering for her........
thanks in advance
but then she has a uti, complaining of burning, having to pee and not being able to, stinky pee.....
i do not have any uva ursi on hand, i have been using yarrow, burdock, and echinacea...... along with diet and cranberry juice (real, no sugar added, though it is mixed with apple so it is palatable to her) and then teas of mallow.......
i am afraid the burdock is bringing out the poison, because since we have started it she has had a 'break out'.......
i am off to the woods to gather more jewel weed, but i would love some suggestions.
i do have cleavers, yarrow, echinacea, usnea, and mallow......should i use dandelion in place of the burdock or continue the burdock to 'clean' her blood of the poison....but ohh, the suffering for her........
thanks in advance
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 7:18 AMif necessary, you can have her pee in the tub while she's taking a bath in water temp. that feels comfortable. the pain and inflammation is probably making it really hard.
could what you think is a uti actually be a complication (or a patch) of the poison ivy rash? it could also be a secondary infection due to the immune stress.
i would have her drinking lots of marshmallow tea for both issues, and plantain could be useful too. i find marshmallow gentle and powerful for urinary tract symptoms, both it and plantain are very soothing.
sometimes people's immune systems can't get past poison ivy without lots of help. everything after my first exposure has multiplied my immune reaction and been a major ordeal, that ended up out of my sphere of self-healing, so keep an eye on her.
i'm sure others will have some great ideas.
hope she's feeling better soon. -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 7:36 AMEDIT: Amanda- In case it was't apparent, when I said "keep an eye on her", i meant watch for signs that her immune system is being too challenged. You obviously are already vigilant and taking great care of her! -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 8:06 AMthanks for the quick reply. we gave her a sitz bath last night with mallow and yarrow teas, and will again today, unfortunately we will only have time for one.
i think she has a VERY sensitive system, always had from birth...... so it could indeed be a secondary infection.
do you think that the burdock could be bringing it out more? she was fine until then...... -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 8:08 AMshe is actually peeing fine, i am taking her every couple of hours....she says it doesn't burn right now, but still has the 'feeling' of having to pee after she does. -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 8:14 AMwhat signs would i look for, her immune system being to challenged???
and thanks again megan, for the quick response. i am worried i have made something worse, at the same time thinking it may be good to 'clean' the blood, while treating the uti......i just don't really know and your input helps.
i guess if the uti would be a secondary infection, i should try to treat the poison first.....but the only ways i know this is with the jewel weed poultice and yarrow oil - which helps the itching tremenously- -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 8:18 AMWhen I get poison ivy, I use epsom salts. I jump in the shower and get nice and wet, then rub affected areas with the epsom salts, using it like a scrub. The rash dries up very quickly. Last time I had to do it again two days later, but the relief is instant. -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 2:57 PMhi amanda,
i would trust your instincts about the burdock. it can, indeed, bring things to the surface. i know it more as a long-term, slower- acting herb in that way, but she is young- so who knows? no need to challenge the situation with what you feel might be making things worse right now, but also no need to blame yourself. burdock would make sense to me for exactly the reason you said, and because it's so allied with the skin.
you'll get pretty clear signs if her immune system starts getting overwhelmed, because she'll get worse and feel miserable, and break out on her skin or with multiple infections, likely with fever and personality changes too- and nothing will soothe anymore. That is what I've seen in myself and others with poison ivy overtaking the body, anyhow. It sounds, however, like you're seeing little improvements, like with the peeing, for instance. poison ivy causes quite a bang on the body, once it penetrates deeply, so if she's starting to heal, i wouldn't be surprised if it takes weeks to feel like herself again.
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 3:12 PMa few more things, after checking my notes....
mugwort/yarrow vinegar externally
plantain vinegar or poultice
solomon's seal root can be used externally as well, if that's something you have around you.
you could try wild or rugosa rose petals as part of the mix too. -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 7:34 PMI appreciate the suggestions and the dialogue here! One thing I would add is the use of Grindelia, if you happen to have it around you. It is similar in action to jewelweed. Also with jewelweed, not sure how you are preparing it, but my understanding is that to get the best results for relief from poison ivy, is one needs to decoct the fresh plant in water. So boil and reduce to half, then apply liberally to the skin.
About the burdock, I know it is difficult to watch what your daughter is experiencing and she is lucky that you are so on top of this, as it can become deadly. Yet, if burdock is bringing something to the surfact and her system is not totally overwhelmed, this may be helping. This needs to move through her system and the best thing, in my mind is to help her do this by allowing her body to process, not to focus on stopping the reaction entirely. Your assessment skills seem right on here and I suspect if you began to see a major change you would take action and seek medical attention. But as long as her body is processing this experience in a way that seems productive, then I would keep on doing what your doing and be sure she is as comfortable as possible.
Blessings
Linda -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 4:41 AMi appreciate it too! being relatively new to herbs and actions....with so many herbs and constitutions.....i appreciate all the wisdom of this tribe.
we did dedoct the jewel weed, and froze the rest in an ice cube tray. but, a nice mashed up poultice with the fresh juice works well too. it feels almost like aloe. i don't think grindella grows around here, i'll look again tho-
i didn't do burdock at all yesterday and stayed with the echinacea ( i figured it has some blood cleansing merit and is good for oozy stuffs such as boils and abscesses and poisonous bites and stings, so i am guessing it may do well for the oozy ivy) BUT she has two new spots on her leg. so maybe it is just the process and not one herb or another -
and she loves the sitz baths (it feels good when they except something with vigor) and i think we will get through this easy enough. i will keep a close eye on her temp and mood, but today she is happy (which is great, because when she's not -whew- so i think it shows something is happening here)
here is hoping i can find some more mallow. i am all out and (i will if i have too) i only had two survive the chickens last year, i was just about to see it bloom. didn't want to pull it up yet...... -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 10:23 AMi have used mallow leaves in tea before and have found them quite soothing to the mucous membranes also. my whole family has drank this in teas before ;^). i'm not sure if they can be used as a poultice for poison ivy though.
slippery elm powder, comfrey, witch hazel, elecampagne and spinach all make good cold poultices for poison ivy.
does she still have a UTI? there r different organisms that can cause them. i've used celery seed (crush seed 1st then boil 1 tsp in 1 cup water for 15 min, drink 3 times/ day). it was all that i had on hand and it did work quite well when all else failed. it does however taste absolutely horrible and it might be difficult to get a child to drink it!
good luck ... -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 12:01 PMthanks! i completely forgot about the slippery elm powder poultice!! i 'll try and figure a way to power mine, my blender is kaput :(
but i will find a way!!
and the leaves! it is so funny how certain things will slip your mind (mine at least ) THANK you for saving my beautiful mallow plants.
yes, i think we are on day 3..... it is surprisingly hard keeping sugar away. we are harvesting black raspbrries and had to make something.... we couldn't deny her the cobbler.....if no improvement is seen we will seek a doctor, cathy. however, i believe with diligence and herbal support we can kick it. and after we do (either doctors meds or herbs ) i will give her a few times a week mallow leaf and yarrow flower tea, along with couch grass if i can find it (haven't tried yet) to strengthen the urinary tissue and possibly give her a better chance of this not occurring again
thanks again, all, for the very helpful input.
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 10:41 AMyes, UTI's are serious
if a fever came up or a prolonged.. more than 24 hous of discomfort urinating medical attention is indicated.. especially in a small child
herbs have many great uses.. but health has many needs. -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 8:26 PM; -)
remember.... even with children... infections, even UTI's need to be treated with herbal medicines at least 2 times/day. they need to be treated stongly and thoroughly... or else the organism perseveres and becomes stronger. depending on the age of your child and how sensitive to certain herbs and medicine is another factor. some people r more sensitive than others. it is always nice to remedy the situation without the use of synthetic antibiotics... though they do have their place when needed...
much luv ;^) -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 9:47 PMyes. this is very important with herbs, and one of the reasons why so many do not have faith in them. it takes time and fore thought and frequency, esp. with the milder nutritive herbs. it is harder in today's lifestyles to accommodate, but necessary for healing
this is always a good reminder.
we've gotten around 4 doses of tincture, with a sitz bath, and (only) two small cups of tea in today. i'd like to get her drinking more of the tea, and was thinking i would spice it up with some bee balm, she loves it. i'm wishing i had some chamomile honey.....she thought that was a yummy addition to bland teas...... but she likes the bee balm and i think that will add flavor enough for her to hold on to a cup throughout the day.
the poison is horrible, and i feel so bad. i have always been sort of immune i suppose, so i have always been non nonchalant about it. i figured if she did get a spot or two it would easily be helped. ha.
luckily it is only one bottom half of her leg and that foot, and then her opposite hand. but the blisters keep coming.
i am excited for tomorrow and the comfrey, slippery elm, plantain poultice. i had to work this evening so i couldn't prepare it for her. -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 8:01 AMI hear the warrnings and cautions about UTIs, and can understand where that's coming from. It's definitely valid to stay aware of kidney health and not ignore serious symptoms that could lead to death.
I feel confused though, because I didn't hear about any fever, back pain, or serious symptoms flaring up. I thought I heard Amanda saying her strategies were making her daughter feel better.
I think making an issue too complicated, with advice or with herbs or with anxiety, can worsen a health situation.
As someone who had years of chronic bladder infections worsened by medical care and antibiotics, I hope you will hear me too. I would be concerned to prematurely usurp or weaken my child's immune system before medical intervention is warranted. I'm not saying it's easy to know where that line is. It took me a long time to realize that I was going to have to accept some bladder pain and discomfort in order to heal it, when antibiotics wouldn't. This discomfort took a few years. It seemed like my body had to "work through" it, if that makes any sense. I felt more safe than concerned, though, because the infections got less severe each time when I started treating them with diet and herbs. If they had gotten worse (increased blood and back pain and fever), I would have reached out and gotten more support.
I think it's tempting to feel the need to keep researching and keep adding things on when we get anxious, but sometimes that can override seeing tiny improvements right in front of us. I don't think our bodies need a lot to heal themselves, in most cases. Especially with kids. But it often takes more time than we're willing to bear sitting with illness.
I know there's a whole spectrum of where we stand, as it should be, so I'm not invalidating those of you who would never treat such an issue on your own, but I wanted to suppport what Amanda was already doing that felt right to her. It sounded wise and it sounded like it was helping. -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 5:53 PMsorry... i didn't mean to confuse.. perhaps i read wrong.. i didn't mean to alarm. i think amanda's doing awsome! i kinda mixed the messages about her daughters UTI getting better...
many appologies...
i do appreciate everones wisdom here.. -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 7:21 PMno worries from me meme, i think your advice is great on many of these threads. glad you are here!
this is an herbal wisdom tribe, and your wisdom is welcomed :) -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 7:22 PMi'm sure megan feels the same way :)
so we got this awesome storm this after noon. i had to stake up the elecampane, and the mallow had two stalks broken. so there is my tea for the next good while. ha. it had even bloomed and i hadn't seen yet. must've happened overnight! very beautiful plant indeed. i really hope it spreads well.
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 9:48 PMthanks for listening. no apologies necessary.
glad for the lively discussion on this tribe, and happy to hear any perspective, even when mine may be different.
(and from what you just explained, memengaa, perhaps not so different .)
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Sat, June 27, 2009 - 10:01 AMjust an update.
i had stopped burdock for a day after i thought it was making it worse. in that time i continued with the echinacea. the next day when i started burdock again, by that evening she had MANY more new blisters as compared with the days before.
so..... i will just keep it up with the plantain and echinacea tinctures, as it seems to help the most. i have stopped the yarrow tincture (for the uti) as she has stopped complaining of burning or a feeling while peeing. she says it is great. so we are going on with the mallow teas, and i will throw in some yarrow once every couple of days or as is needed.
so this is improvement, and i am thinking that the burdock is just not needed right now. by making more blisters, it is prolonging the healing of the ivy. ( i think, because she scratches and creates sores open for infection.)
the jewel weed dedoction is great and last night i put together some chamomile, echinacea, and jewel weed flower oils along with a bit of licorice and black walnut tinctures.... i made a salve, but i feel a bit uneasy using it as it may trap bacteria in just as well as soothe the itching.
i have only used it after bathing her bumps and sores in jewel weed and promptly put on pants. no itching for hours.
next time i think i would like a cream of this better......using the jewel weed dedoction for the waters......
anyway, so that is what is happening with this now.
so far, so good -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Sat, June 27, 2009 - 12:32 PMwow, what an experience for you two to start off the summer with! glad to hear things are improving and you're both feeling cheerful.
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, July 15, 2009 - 5:50 AMHerbs are wonderful medicines but in the case of a young girl who has a UTI which seems not to be responding to herbal therapy then I would rush her into a medical clinic. UTI's are not common in young girls...the exposure to poison ivy does not cause a UTI. UTI's left untreated can cause sepsis and can cause death. As a RN, I know this, I have seen it more than once.
She also needs to be drinking water, at least a few quarts, to help flush out the bacteria. Sitz baths are ok but not the real deal.
The burning, bladder pressure...feeling like she has not voided completely suggest an advanced UTI. Please get her medical help. -
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Re: poison ivy and a uti
Wed, July 15, 2009 - 8:04 AMhi. thanks for your input.
i did end up taking her to the doctor. her test came back negative and the doctor was completely unconcerned.
we are still having having our teas and nourishing her systems with burdock as well, just to strengthen, complete, and support her healing.
and as i understand, uti's are common in little girls, with as much as they play and get dirty and do not know as well to be careful with touching and wiping. i thought it was quite common.
but thanks again :)
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