FOR THE LOVE OF GOD...someone explain to me viral shedding. For when there is potential to sleep w/ someone, and that person has been informed of my HSV2 status....how do I fully explain viral shedding. I understand it as skin to skin contact....so if basically, I'm not having an outbreak, even if their skin comes into close proximity to where I have my outbreaks (anal) that they might be subjected to possibly getting HSV2. HERE IS THE CATCH....how could it ever be possible that someone catch HSV2 through skin to skin contact though if I was having an outbreak....and sat on a toilet (now this is all hypothetical) and my HSV2 got on it, and by some fluke it touched another person....it was my understaning that the virus doesn't live outside it's range....on or inainmate objects....that person would in fact have to have a cut for it to be transmitted right!?
SO, if I'm not having an outbreak, and we have PROTECTED sex, just how much at risk is that person.....basing on casual sex?
PLEASE, advise!!!
SO, if I'm not having an outbreak, and we have PROTECTED sex, just how much at risk is that person.....basing on casual sex?
PLEASE, advise!!!
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Thu, May 31, 2007 - 12:24 PMYour question is kind of loaded.
Herpes can be transmitted even when there is no sign of an outbreak. The surface of your skin may not have full blown blisters, but may be sloughing off hsv.
That may not be the case though, when you have the virus inside your body. Some folks have the virus in places that the can't see it. In my case it's obvious. One, I'm male. Two, it's far from my actual penis. It's off to the side at the base and moves from place to place in the general vicinity. Some men have it on the inside of their urethra's as well with no outward signs of the disease.
Basically it all depends on where you have the disease as well as where you touch someone else with your body. One can even transmit the disease by touching themselves with their hands then touching another's body parts.
Basically there is no 100% sure thing when it comes to keeping your partner(s) clear of the disease other than not touching.
Hope this helps. -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Thu, May 31, 2007 - 2:40 PMI see what you're saying...but it doesn't help...if I don't have signs of my outbreak, how could I possibly be "Sloughing off" the virus? Makes no sense. -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Thu, May 31, 2007 - 3:00 PMThe area that you would normally have a full blown outbreak sometimes has left over virui on the surface of the skin after or before an outbreak. From what I understand about the body and the virus, the virus lives in the nerve tissue and has a pathway to the surface of the skin via the nerve endings at the surface. The virus lays dormant for the most part unless you trigger it somehow or your immunities can't keep it down easily.
Sometimes even when you don't have an outbreak or havn't for a while the body doesn't keep the virus in check completely and stray virui are moving about within the nerve tissue and make it to the surface. A little rub a dub dub on the area enough to rough up the skin just a little on your partner and viola, you have transmission. Sometimes the body just doesn't keep the virus completely down and dormant. Remember, we're literally a big bag of small bags of liquid. The virus is really, really small and it's alive. Living things usually move about somehow, even if they don't move very far.
It's a sad but true statement in this case that nature isn't stupid. Life finds a way. In our case, we're host to a form of life that really wants to find a way to replicate itself. Unfortunately for us, this particular life form rides piggyback on our drive to procreate. Ironic, eh?
I hope this doesn't sound condecending. It's just the easiest way for me to explain it. I hope it makes more sense now.
Scot -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Thu, May 31, 2007 - 3:14 PMHey Scot,
Thanks...maybe I'm just not getting it....I get outbreaks on my anus....so are you telling me that the HSV2 is not in my fluids? Or is it? I guess that's another question aside from what you typed...haha sorry!!! I just don't get the whole viral shedding thing....I take Valtrex, and L-Lysine....I hope that one day I can find someone to be with, that won't be afraid to get HSV2. It's really not that bad...just a huge stigma on it.
I guess what I don't get....I'm sorry to those who are offended by this, but I'm just going to lay it out there...if I'm having protected sex w/ a male, and his testicals by chance come in contact w/ my ass somehow....and I'm NOT having an outbreak...how could it be possible for him to just get HSV2, if the virus didn't come in contact w/ an open part of his skin??? The actual virus can't survive airborne....so, how could it be possible? I see how it can spread from touching an open sore to your eye, but not by touching your knee..or face...
Arrrgh, so complicated....or maybe I'm thickheaded? -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Thu, May 31, 2007 - 3:59 PMI think the answer to this would be that he might have an ingrown hair, a bug bite or simply a spot where his fingernail has irritated the skin enough to open a pathway for the virus. We typically ignore most small annoyances which is why a large percentage of people who have HSV and don't have have a severe outbreak from the get go don't even know they have it.
As an example...I caught HSV from my partner who has cold sores through oral sex but they originally broke out in my anal region rather than vaginally. Now he doesn't have any physical contact with my anus during sex so the only explanation we can come up with is that it was transferred through saliva and my natural lubrication to my anal area and showed up there first because I was irritated in that area at the time. I have since developed one small spot on my outer labia that breaks out occasionally and we assume that it was passed to that area at a time when I was irritated from shaving. We had been together (no sex with others) for a year before my first outbreak occurred.
HSV can be a tricky little virus to deal with...there shouldn't be the stigma attached to it that there is in our society but thanks to alarmist conventional medicine and big drug companies trying to make bucks there is...
You will find someone who is capable of understanding and dealing with the fact that you have HSV. In some ways I feel that it sort of screens out the people who aren't worth messing with in the first place. -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Fri, June 1, 2007 - 7:24 AMThe best explanation of shedding is in dr, stephen sacks book "the truth about herpes". Shedding happens in three ways. Outbreak- the virus lying dormant in your nerve cells activates but is so smart that it only sends 50% of it's numbers to the surface of your skin, the other 50% it sends to infect uninfected nerves cells. You are contagious from the time the virus activates which is often 24-72 hours before you see any sores, although some people experience the warning signs of burning, itching or tingling. You remain contagious until after the sores have healed over and your skin returns to feeling normal when you touch the area. The virus doesnt need broken skin to pentrate into another person, the virus prefers to travel through the thin skin of your mucous memebranes, lips, vagina, penis, foeskin, testicles, etc, but can also penetrate through thicker skin such as elbows, fingers, buttocks, etc. The virus can infect anywhere on your body where you have skin.
Second type of shedding is called a sub-clinical outbreak which is the same as an outbreak with the exception of the symptoms being so mild they may actually be unnoticeable, like almost microscopic lesions.
Thirdly is asymptomatic shedding. From anywhere from 4 to 16 days a year the average person with herpes can shed virus without any signs of an outbreak.
You can have detectable amounts of herpes virus in your tears, salvia and other fluids but its not enugh virus to infect others, infection happens from skin to skin contact and it doesnt have to be the area of skin where you normally have outbreaks.
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Fri, June 1, 2007 - 8:13 AMhumans also shed skin. we constantly have dead flakes of skin falling off our bodies. With all that coming off how strange is it to think that some little part of the virus can live on those flakes long enough to be transfered form one body to another? There's a virus constantly in our bodies, something skipping arround and wrecking havoc causing outbreaks, sometimes totally sleeping, and sometimes just sitting in the corner knitting, not really causing trouble but still definatelly present... (Oh SHUSH it makes me feel better to imagine a knitting herpie.)
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Thu, May 31, 2007 - 6:03 PMwell let's just look at an outbreak and not think about the random asymptomatic shedding...
Before an outbreak you start loosing cells from the surface of your skin that are infectious. Then maybe a day or two later the virus pushes a little more and you're having an ourbreak. The week or more later when you're healing up and your skin is lookin cood and clean again, there could still be a tale end of the virus hanging arround... that's still a good 4 days of contagiousness where your skin isn't all sorts of "AHHH"
It's sort of like a wave... You don't have to see a foamy white crest in order for there to be a wave present.
so imagine you body gets into that first stage where it;'s contagious but it never pushed all the way to having an outbreak.. that's how your random days of infectios activity can happen.
I think. -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Thu, May 31, 2007 - 6:36 PMDo you guys realize this, NO ONE knows what viral shedding really entails...this makes me sick....no wonder why there is such a social stigma... -
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Unsu...
Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Thu, May 31, 2007 - 9:10 PMnamaste,
definately we do not want to pass on herpes, and knowing how not to is important...
it was mentioned above that the virus can come out of the skin NOT where you were infected. and that the virus comes up through the nerves.
but the shedding is that you can shed the virus when you do NOT have symptoms.
and, i guess, you could shed without symptoms and NOT where you first got contact with the herpes.
now, what are the chances of that?
so, what to do? message him for more specific info, or:
from the herpesbook.com book:
<<Most people with herpes, maybe up to 70% don’t get noticeable outbreaks. You may be having sub-clinical (subtle) outbreaks or may be shedding virus asymptomatically (without symptoms). You could be infecting others with herpes without knowing it.>>
<<If you have herpes or cold sores you are potentially contagious everyday and there is no sure way to tell if you are shedding virus. So do consider using a condom/dental dam combined with an anti-viral gel when having sex and do be careful about sharing wet towels or wash cloths with others. >>
basically, you use condoms, saran wrap, dental dams, gloves, and also smear the anti-viral gel liberally all over wherever you think you might have any kind of shedding (symptoms showing or not) in any area anywhere you think the virus might pop up that is not covered. probably if you use medicine or use holistic living/healing, and use protection and use the gel....the moderator/christopher would prob have more specific info.
other than that, i would not know what to advise, as i do not use medicine, so for me, the above is all i can do, altho there are people who use medicine and that seems to stop the outbreaks, but i wonder how effective it is as stopping the asymptomic shedding?
i was there with you, totally wondering how not to pass it on. and i understand your Q, cause when you call the CDC for instance, they basically tell you to never let anyone touch you below the waist, or sleep with you naked, no wonder i was so freaked out for the first couple years.
www.herpes.com/genitalinfo.shtml
www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdherp.htm
xo -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Sun, July 8, 2007 - 8:16 PMI'm new to tribe and this community. It's taken me awhile to tap into it but I'm glad I have. I have to be honest and say that I'm fairly freaked out after reading all of these postings. I've always thought that, for the lack of better words, that mutual masturbation would be a safe form of sex play. But now I'm understanding that it isn't. I'm confused and feel awful b/c I have recently told someone I was seeing that touching me "below the waist" is safe. I was not having symptoms of an outbreak at the time but this whole shedding thing is bigger than I thought. I feel scared that I would have put him at risk and wonder how much of a risk it was. I realize now that I have a lot more learning to do. Any thoughts? -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Mon, July 9, 2007 - 7:23 AMYour site, where you have an outbreak could be dangerous...I shed annally.....so someone giving my oral sex wouldn't be likely to catch it from me. Viral Shedding in my eyes is crap. To me, what these doctors say about it is crap.....people pull their knowings from what doctors post....now, let me ask you. How did you get your HSV2? Did you later find out that that person was actually having an outbreak when you got it? I have my own thoughts on this...and HSV2 isn't a big deal. This is so easy to deal with, it is what you make it. Just keep this in mind...if you're having an outbreak, keep your pants on...if you're not...then practice safe sex....then you're good...that's my thought...of course, be sure to let others know of your status before ingaging in sexual activites.....and you'll be good. I've been with someone since my diagnosis, and they are FINE! -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Mon, July 9, 2007 - 4:08 PMThanks Steph for having the same attitude I do!
I was with someone for almost a year. He knew my status and we still went unprotected sometimes (ok, a lot of the time). He then had sex with a good friend of mine (again, unprotected) and neither of them has shown any symptoms.
Of course, I don't think he really understood what herpes was, even though I explained all this info to him before hand. He went to the doctor for something else and they checked him for H (don't know if they did the real blood test or just asked him about his exposure)and he freaked out a bit, thinking I hadn't told him all he needed to know. Truth is, he wasn't listening b/c he wanted to get laid............
My point here is the same as yours: Don't be stupid and don't freak out! -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Mon, July 9, 2007 - 6:47 PMThanks for your responses. In answer to your question about how I got it...I got it orally from my partner who had a cold sore. Neither one of us knew it was HSV 1. What I'm assuming from your responses is that the chances of him getting it from touching me with his hand in an area where I've had an outbreak is slim since I was not having an outbreak. Of course, now that so much of my energy is going towards this, I started feeling itching today...could also be psychosomatic. But IF I'm feeling the beginnings of an outbreak today, would I have been contagious (not jusr from shedding) 24 hours ago...and what would be the chances of him getting it through his hand if that were the case?
I really appreciate your stories and attitudes...they're somewhat relieving my frenzy but I'm really freaking out still. I like this guy a lot and I'm so scared and embarrassed about telling him that I put him at risk. Of course I had already informed him of my status, but I'd also told him that touching me with his hand would be OK.
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Mon, July 9, 2007 - 9:01 PMThere is sooooo much information out there about this virus, it's hard to know everything. It's unfair to expect yourself to have all the answers. You are not a doctor or a herpes researcher. I'm of the opinion that it's the other person's responsibility to do a bit of research as well. Otherwise they can't get upset if you told them all you knew.
Freaking about it always brings on OBs for me.
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Tue, July 10, 2007 - 4:10 AMYOU'RE FINE!!!!!!!!!!!! The HSV2 Virus cannot survive on inanimate objects. STOP WORRYING. The more your stress out, the more likely you are to have an outbreak. Cut it out. You need to just accept this as a gift, and move on. If people don't accept you for who you are, then screw them. SERIOUSLY....this HSV2 allows you to be more selective on who you chose to be with, which is awesome. It's the perfect filter in life....now others choose to think their life is over, but those people are so pessimistic, nothing will help them. And that's so sad to think that someone w/ something as small as HSV2 lives their life as if they had HIV. THAT IS SERIOUS....HSV2 is NOTHING compared to that virus. So.....ok, your physical mate touched you with his hand...cool....as long as he's not takin' his fingers after touching you vaginally, and then anally you're cool....the virus could "COULD" be spread that way, but doubtful. That's the only precaution you should have. Keep in mind that HSV2 usually only pops up where you 1st had your outbreak, the virus doesn't move around much. I get them on my ass...that's it. :) I have some remedies that a friend reviled to me the other day, I'll post later about it. You know how people have cold sores, and don't think twice about kissing people, or going down....well, the odds of people doing that and getting HSV2 are so slim.....likewise with HSV2....as long as you're not having an outbreak, and practice safe sex. Now, if you're feeling like you might have an outbreak, keep your pants on.....b/c that's when the viral shedding happens....if you think you're having the signs, or an outbreak...be cautious.....hope this helps. :) Enjoy your life!!! -
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 12:44 AMI got herpes in 1985, from a gf who (unknowingly) had it, and who's viral area turned out to be on her ass. While we never had anal sex, I often rimmed her during oral sex, just generally got my face down there "in the damp", and we many many times had sex with her on top or doggy style - all times when her ass region had plenty of contact with my sweating body. Add to this lots of shower sex and sharing towels and one immediately after the other on the toilet in a hot steamy bathroom (you very much CAN transfer the virus through inanimate objects), and it was no wonder it transfered to me.
During the early years my prime break out area was along my circumcision scar but with time it has spread as well, mostly around my anus, up onto my butt cheeks on occasion, and along my perineum (the line between anus and scrotum) from time to time - areas that no condom will cover and that can easily make contact with areas of skin beyond the penis/vaginal area, not to mention toilet seats etc. My prodrome symptoms are generally very clear, so I try and take special care to be aware and at those times am extremely catious when using friends or public toilets etc.
Viral shedding exists; to my knowledge I've only passed this along twice in 22 years but both times it was without having intercourse, and both times I thought I was 'clean'. The first time our doctor figured it was from sharing towels; the second it was from my lover 'riding' my thigh while we just fooled around - I was wearing undies and short short cut offs at the time. There is no telling what warm sweaty area of skin thats exposed may have the virus in the exposed nerves.
With over 22 years of living with this, I've met a lot of folk who have it and have traded many stories, both of pain but also of hope. "Just say KNOW" is the best approach. Read everything that has been legitimately published (Christophers book and Dr Sachs books are excellent); take 'word of mouth' testimony, and worse "facts", especially when the experience isn't first hand, with a VERY large grain of salt; be very honest with yourself - and your lovers - and conscious of your body.
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Re: VIRAL SHEDDING....SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!
Sun, October 21, 2007 - 9:15 PMStephanie,
I'm right there with you. There seem to be a lot of unknowns with this virus.
Do people who are symptomatic also get asymptomatic shedding? What exactly are the risks?
I've heard that men are less likely to get it from women than vis versa. I've even read that women have had unprotected sex for years without their partners getting symptoms.
I know a lot about risky behavior for HIV, but I'm still unclear about HSV.
If I'm on the pill, I know that I have a 1 in 100 chance of getting pregnant. Why is the HSV info so sparce?
