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Native Honesty

J Timothy — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:29:56 GMT

This speech is a fairly faithful rendering of Chief Seattle's statements when he was approched by government agents about a purchase they wished to make of lands his tribe controlled:

Chief Seattle's Speech

"Yonder sky that has wept tears of compassion on our fathers for centuries untold, and which, to us, looks eternal, may change. Today it is fair, tomorrow it may be overcast with clouds. My words are like the stars that never set. What Seattle says, the great chief, Washington … can rely upon, with as much certainty as our pale-face brothers can rely upon the return of the seasons.

"The son [a reference to Terr. Gov. Stevens] of the White Chief says his father sends us greetings of friendship and good will. This is kind, for we know he has little need of our friendship in return, because his people are many. They are like the grass that covers the vast prairies, while my people are few, and resemble the scattering trees of a storm-swept plain.

"The great, and I presume also good, white chief sends us word that he wants to buy our lands but is willing to allow us to reserve enough to live on comfortably. This indeed appears generous, for the red man no longer has rights that he need respect, and the offer may be wise, also, for we are no longer in need of a great country.

"There was a time when our people covered the whole land, as the waves of a wind-ruffled sea cover its shell-paved floor. But that time has long since passed away with the greatness of tribes now almost forgotten. I will not mourn over our untimely decay, nor reproach my pale-face brothers for hastening it, for we, too, may have been somewhat to blame.

"When our young men grow angry at some real or imaginary wrong, and disfigure their faces with black paint, their hearts, also, are disfigured and turn black, and then their cruelty is relentless and knows no bounds, and our old men are not able to restrain them.

"But let us hope that hostilities between the red-man and his pale-face brothers may never return. We would have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

"True it is, that revenge, with our young braves, is considered gain, even at the cost of their own lives, but old men who stay at home in times of war, and old women, who have sons to lose, know better.

"Our great father Washington, for I presume he is now our father, as well as yours, since George [a reference to King George III, i.e., Great Britain] has moved his boundaries to the north; our great and good father, I say, sends us word by his son, who, no doubt, is a great chief among his people, that if we do as he desires, he will protect us. His brave armies will be to us a bristling wall of strength, and his great ships of war will fill our harbors so that our ancient enemies far to the northward, the Simsiams [Tsimshian] and Hydas [Haidas], will no longer frighten our women and old men. Then he will be our father and we will be his children.

"But can this ever be? Your God loves your people and hates mine; he folds his strong arms lovingly around the white man and leads him as a father leads his infant son, but he has forsaken his red children; he makes your people wax strong every day, and soon they will fill the land; while my people are ebbing away like a fast-receding tide, that will never flow again. The white man's God cannot love his red children or he would protect them. They seem to be orphans who can look nowhere for help. How then can we become brothers? How can your father become our father and bring us prosperity and awaken in us dreams of returning greatness?

"Your God seems to us to be partial. He came to the white man. We never saw Him; never even heard His voice; He gave the white man laws but He had no word for His red children whose teeming millions filled this vast continent as the stars fill the firmament. No, we are two distinct races and must remain ever so. There is little in common between us. The ashes of our ancestors are sacred and their final restingplace is hallowed ground, while you wander away from the tombs of your fathers seemingly without regret.

"Your religion was written on tables of stone by the iron finger of an angry God, lest you might forget it. The red man could never remember nor comprehend it.

"Our religion is the traditions of our ancestors, the dreams of our old men, given them by the great Spirit, and the visions of our sachems, and is written in the hearts of our people.

"Your dead cease to love you and the homes of their nativity as soon as they pass the portals of the tomb. They wander far off beyond the stars, are soon forgotten, and never return. Our dead never forget the beautiful world that gave them being. They still love its winding rivers, its great mountains and its sequestered vales, and they ever yearn in tenderest affection over the lonely hearted living and often return to visit and comfort them.

"Day and night cannot dwell together. The red man has ever fled the approach of the white man, as the changing mists on the mountain side flee before the blazing morning sun.

"However, your proposition seems a just one, and I think my folks will accept it and will retire to the reservation you offer them, and we will dwell apart and in peace, for the words of the great white chief seem to be the voice of nature speaking to my people out of the thick darkness that is fast gathering around them like a dense fog floating inward from a midnight sea.

"It matters but little where we pass the remainder of our days.

"They are not many. The Indian's night promises to be dark. No bright star hovers above the horizon. Sad-voiced winds moan in the distance. Some grim Nemesis of our race is on the red man's trail, and wherever he goes he will still hear the sure approaching footsteps of the fell destroyer and prepare to meet his doom, as does the wounded doe that hears the approaching footsteps of the hunter. A few more moons, a few more winters, and not one of all the mighty hosts that once filled this broad land or that now roam in fragmentary bands through these vast solitudes will remain to weep over the tombs of a people once as powerful and as hopeful as your own.

"But why should we repine? Why should I murmur at the fate of my people? Tribes are made up of individuals and are no better than they. Men come and go like the waves of a sea. A tear, a tamanawus, a dirge, and they are gone from our longing eyes forever. Even the white man, whose God walked and talked with him, as friend to friend, is not exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We shall see.

"We will ponder your proposition, and when we have decided we will tell you. But should we accept it, I here and now make this the first condition: That we will not be denied the privilege, without molestation, of visiting at will the graves of our ancestors and friends. Every part of this country is sacred to my people. Every hill-side, every valley, every plain and grove has been hallowed by some fond memory or some sad experience of my tribe.

"Even the rocks that seem to lie dumb as they swelter in the sun along the silent seashore in solemn grandeur thrill with memories of past events connected with the fate of my people, and the very dust under your feet responds more lovingly to our footsteps than to yours, because it is the ashes of our ancestors, and our bare feet are conscious of the sympathetic touch, for the soil is rich with the life of our kindred."

"The sable braves, and fond mothers, and glad-hearted maidens, and the little children who lived and rejoiced here, and whose very names are now forgotten, still love these solitudes, and their deep fastnesses at eventide grow shadowy with the presence of dusky spirits. And when the last red man shall have perished from the earth and his memory among white men shall have become a myth, these shores shall swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe, and when your children's children shall think themselves alone in the field, the store, the shop, upon the highway or in the silence of the woods they will not be alone. In all the earth there is no place dedicated to solitude. At night, when the streets of your cities and villages shall be silent, and you think them deserted, they will throng with the returning hosts that once filled and still love this beautiful land. The white man will never be alone. Let him be just and deal kindly with my people, for the dead are not altogether powerless."

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Extreme Honesty

J Timothy — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:26:14 GMT

I have left EH tribe. I was there once, left, rejoined, now gone for good. I am hoping that this tribe might become a forum where those who leave EH or seek an alternative to it might gather to create a different environment without a select few who drown out all other voices and opinions. That was my original intention. So, I am back here and hoping to get that agenda in operation...and to perhaps slowly see this tribe gain a few active members. Nothing extreme, mind you...just honesty and discussion without fireworks and overkill. I feel there can be honesty without drama and the sort of incessant and inane bickering and childish behaviors I see in many tribes.

Adult thinking and behavior is what I am after here, and a bit of intellect might facilitate that a bit (possibly). But the point is, civil thinking and behavior is the rule of thumb.

posted in Honesty(simple) - 3 replies

ethics and morality

J Timothy — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:40:01 GMT

What are ethics and morality to you, what do you base them on...and do you decide what to do on that basis?

posted in Honesty(simple) - 3 replies

honest invitation

grasshoppersmeadow — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 04:28:09 GMT

very into posting some favorite photographs and tidbits on my profile and on smoke on the river. come visit. namaste, grasshopper

posted in Honesty(simple) - 4 replies

honesty

J Timothy — Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:29:27 GMT

How do YOU define it? Do you think it needs a qualifier to beef it up?

posted in Honesty(simple) - 10 replies

tact

J Timothy — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:37:24 GMT

What do you think tact is...and does anyone think you must compromise honesty to achieve it?

posted in Honesty(simple) - 2 replies

posts

J Timothy — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:43:11 GMT

Here, I simply want to encourage all of you to post in honesty(simple)....because I like this tribe and hope for it to grow and support honest and simple discourse. I feel like a prodigal child who has been away, and now I want to come home. Good to be here.

posted in Honesty(simple) - 0 replies

PSYCHIC

J Timothy — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:16:24 GMT

PSYCHIC

http://tribes.tribe.net/psi-line

in case this interests anyone

posted in Honesty(simple) - 0 replies

debate

J Timothy — Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:34:52 GMT

I have also started a tribe with the above title. For debate (in answer to tribes such as "heated" debate)

Debate Tribe

http://tribes.tribe.net/debateforum

in case you want real and civil moderated debate

posted in Honesty(simple) - 2 replies

"The Secret" - and my secret about the secret...

J Timothy — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:23:59 GMT

Re: "The Secret" and AMORC Rosicrucians at rosicrucian.org - (previously posted info)

If you like “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”, then try "Lila", the little known, little read, very misunderstood sequel by Robert M. Pirsig of "Zen/Motorcycle" fame and also "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" by Gary Zukav.
I have not seen "Down The Rabbit Hole" yet....I plan to get that and watch it. Glad to hear that it goes so much further than WTB (What The Bleep Do We Know).

It is much easier (I see) to critique such information than it is to let it sink in or change what we're doing, maybe even to our benefit. I don't suppose that would change even if the moviemakers got it spot on perfect and without any flaws whatsoever (in storyline, philosophy, science, casting, physics, metaphysics, etc).

I have to examine this idea of resistance....and the refusal to let go of critical thinking in the face of such brilliant spiritual/metaphysical information. I think it may be caution related to "cultism" or....it could just be plain old fear and resistance to change because it requires us to do something and become different. I am really in a quandary over this. Can you tell me why people are so resistant to something that ultimately wishes them nothing but good?

Okay, let me tell you something you don't know. "The Secret" has another secret. If you watch it very carefully in the opening sequences, they show a series of images including a lot of famous historical figures. There is a little melodrama about "burying the Secret" out in front of the pyramids. Use your still/pause button. They show a lot of books and parchments. If you pause at just the right moment, you will see the word "Rosicrucians" on the front of some of the manuscripts.

Go to www.rosicrucian.org - It is the site for AMORC Rosicrucians, an ancient organization who funded and sponsored this movie. Check them out for yourself. They did not do it for profit or gain, and for them to do anything of this nature at all is very unlike them. Because they do not actively seek membership. They truly practice the "law of attraction" and they believe that those that belong in their organization will find them. They do not proselytize.
I know the Rosicrucians well, and I personally find no fault with them. They have ancient ties, and ancient knowledge. It would absolutely astound you the people from down through the ages that were Rosicrucians. Virtually anyone who was ANYONE...was most likely a Rosicrucian. I happen to know that as a membership and a body, they have become very concerned about world events currently, and so they broke the mold a bit to make this movie, "The Secret". They get no proceeds from it. They are simply concerned enough about the planet and the state it is currently in to want to "stack the deck" a bit in favor of human survival.

I am breaking all the codes and protocol by disseminating this information, but I am not a member (yet), so I guess I can get away with it. I hope this casts a new light on your viewing of "The Secret", and who knows....maybe Oprah is a Rosicrucian? To me, that would be absolutely cool, because I admire the woman greatly and all the positive influences she has spawned.

(Oh yeah, let me know what you feel about AMORC Rosicrucians at rosicrucian.org - thanks!) Shocking information, isn't it? I mean, as a whole here.

namaste
Tim

I am starting out with this post that I have posted elsewhere in Tribe...let me know what you think.

posted in Honesty(simple) - 1 reply